Proof of 18% gratuity on specialty restaurants

[hawkeyetlse]

I understand what you are saying and it could/should work like that but do you really think that NCL is keeping track of where their wait staff is and taking the time to divide up the DSC in the proper way? I don't.

I think they are. You don't think they are. Neither of us knows anything for sure. I wouldn't bother calling NCL to get an answer. We can go around for another 600 messages or 600 threads but doesn't it seem like a waste of the Internet?

[hpecorari]

I think they are. You don't think they are. Neither of us knows anything for sure. I wouldn't bother calling NCL to get an answer. We can go around for another 600 messages or 600 threads but doesn't it seem like a waste of the Internet?

 

Plus I don't believe half of what the reps tell me anyway.

 

Harriet

[maywell]

"Generally rendered to all guests" mean included services. Dining in a specialty restaurant is NOT an included service.

 

It further says "restaurant staff" not "specialty restaurant staff" which may be their official title.

 

I understand this is semantics, but that's how lawyers find their loopholes.

 

But the DSC is rendered to all guests and restaurant staff (complimentary aka MDR / Buffet and specialty) are currently included in the DSC. So why should I, who is not using the specialty restaurants should be paying DSC to them just like if I was a non-drinker who is not drinking soda / alcohol is not paying the bartender via the 18% drink tips. No customer should have to automatically pay tips again if ALL the restaurant staff including specialty, already getting it from DSC in the 1st place on top of paying the cover charge for the food. There lies the loopholes and why NCL needs to clear that up - People who are not eating at specialty restaurants at all, are still paying for the specialty waitstaff there via DSC. It should be exactly the same if they were bartenders paid via the 18% tips, not getting double paid from the DSC and 18% like they are now with this new policy.

[rpb718]

Okay.

I go to breakfast at the MDR and Nancy serves me.

I go to breakfast at the MDR and request Nancy and she serves me again.

I go to a specialty restaurant and see Nancy and ask her to serve me.

 

Nancy gets my DSC since she's in the MDR for breakfast and lunch

Nancy gets my 18% gratuity because she's in a specialty restaurant.

 

Nancy's doing quite well with my 18% specialty restaurant money and my DSC money!

 

That's double dipping or double tipping in my world.

 

Harriet

 

The steward and all the behind the scenes folks are getting nothing in your world, or are you really thinking that everything only goes to servers?

[AEckhardt]

Okay.

 

 

 

I go to breakfast at the MDR and Nancy serves me.

 

I go to breakfast at the MDR and request Nancy and she serves me again.

 

I go to a specialty restaurant and see Nancy and ask her to serve me.

 

 

 

Nancy gets my DSC since she's in the MDR for breakfast and lunch

 

Nancy gets my 18% gratuity because she's in a specialty restaurant.

 

 

 

Nancy's doing quite well with my 18% specialty restaurant money and my DSC money!

 

 

 

That's double dipping or double tipping in my world.

 

 

 

Harriet

 

 

But what part of the DSC does Nancy receive? What if she receives a portion based on her performance in the MDR for breakfast and lunch, but no portion for her performance in the specialty?

 

And a server, Linda, working the MDR all three meals gets whatever NCL portions out based on her service for all three meals. Now Nancy has made less off the DSC than Linda. So whatever Nancy earns as a server in, say, Moderno makes up for the loss for not covering dinner in the MDR and then some, making working in the specialty restaurant more lucrative for her, and other servers will strive to with their way up, as well.

[maywell]

The steward and all the behind the scenes folks are getting nothing in your world, or are you really thinking that everything only goes to servers?

 

The room Steward and all the behind scenes are getting it from the DSC only while specialty waitstaff who switch back and forth is getting both the 18% plus DSC - and there lies one of the problems.

Edited March 21, 2015 by maywell

[hpecorari]

The steward and all the behind the scenes folks are getting nothing in your world, or are you really thinking that everything only goes to servers?

 

No, and if you've read my posts through out all of this and all along on CC you'd know that. We were specifically talking about wait staff and our DSC and the 18% gratuity in the restaurants.

 

No one has ever commented on the room stewards and all the behind the scene folks that are a part of the DSC.......except you! LOL That's not what this thread is even about.

 

Harriet

[hpecorari]

The room Steward and all the behind scenes are getting it from the DSC only while specialty waitstaff who switch back and forth is getting both the 18% plus DSC - and there lies one of the problems.

 

Okay, you said it a little nicer to the OP than I did!

 

Harriet

[hpecorari]

But what part of the DSC does Nancy receive? What if she receives a portion based on her performance in the MDR for breakfast and lunch, but no portion for her performance in the specialty?

 

And a server, Linda, working the MDR all three meals gets whatever NCL portions out based on her service for all three meals. Now Nancy has made less off the DSC than Linda. So whatever Nancy earns as a server in, say, Moderno makes up for the loss for not covering dinner in the MDR and then some, making working in the specialty restaurant more lucrative for her, and other servers will strive to with their way up, as well.

 

ALL waitstaff used to get, were getting or are still getting (since we really don't know) a % of the DSC for being waitstaff no matter where they worked, Why? Because they are waitstaff. Waitstaff in MDR, waitstaff in Buffet, waitstaff in 24 hour restaurant or waitstaff in specialty restaurant. Their job title is the same......waitstaff.

 

Harriet

[david_sobe]

Or what if you purchased the UBP and paid the gratuity with the package. Imagine ordering a drink and finding they charge you for ANOTHER gratuity.

 

This is wrong period.

 

Nothing in life is fair. But there is right and wrong. And what NCL is doing is definitely wrong. Their official response is laughable and pathetic. And it is so because they are defending the indefensible. There are no land restaurants that charge customers an 18% auto gratuity based on a cover charge and then charge an auto daily gratuity on top of the gratuity.

 

A family of 4 would pay almost $80 in gratuity in one day if they would have a dinner at Cagneys. $80 is what some would pay the butler or concierge for an entire week of work and those employees are not in the tip pool.

 

But I am getting distracted with nonsense because that is not the point. I could say since 2009 I have seen the quality decline in the specialty restaurants while the price increases. I could say NCL just increased the daily auto gratuity. That too is a distraction. I could say NCL just raised the price of the specialty restaurants and say the gratuity was included in the cover charge. That too is a distraction. Companies and corporations are always looking for ways to maximum profit. This is a dirty and sleazy way to sneak money from customers under the name of gratuity.

 

NCL has been a pioneer in cruising. They have lots of firsts. But this is a new first that assumes the customer is dumb and stupid and can be taken advantage of.

 

Some will defend NCL no matter what. About 20% of this board would clap their hands if NCL said you must hop on one foot the entire cruise. They will defend NCL no matter what. But even this decision has the usual cheerleaders shying away from such a low life move.

Edited March 21, 2015 by david_sobe

[AEckhardt]

Actually, we do not know if waitstaff were automatically getting a percentage. As NCL had finally stated, it is an incentive program based on performance and that means you have to EARN said incentive.

 

Again, this is all under speculation. I offered some possible situations, believe what you will. I, for one, will accept the reality of an added gratuity and incorporate that into my decision making regarding future cruises, purchase of the UDP or individual patronage of the specialties. I'm not losing sleep over it.

[SuperMommy]

Oh so many good points! But I am reminded of my first cruise 16 years ago or so when there was one "specialty" restaurant onboard and it was behind a wall of potted palms in the corner of the buffet (Princess) and I couldn't imagine why you would choose to pay to eat there with all of the wonderful "free" food to be found. Well, silly us consumers who continued to pay for a special meal that has now drained the MDRs of the fruit and cheese platters, limited the red meat to one cut and sent the lobster back overboard. Now I've joined the rank and file and have paid the "cover charges" on more than one NCL specialty meal along with an additional tip. So WHY ARE WE SURPRISED that NCL is finding yet another way to add fees to meals that shouldn't be charged a fee in the first place except cruisers for that we are will willing (dumb enough) to pay for it??

 

STOP DINING SPECIALTY. PERIOD. ONLY WAY THEY WILL LISTEN.

 

Please. I want better cheesecake in the MDR.

[NLH Arizona]

A family of 4 would pay almost $80 in gratuity in one day if they would have a dinner at Cagneys. $80 is what some would pay the butler or concierge for an entire week of work and those employees are not in the tip pool.

 

I'm a little confused. 4 in Cagney's is $120 ($30 x 4), add to that 18 percent ($120 x 18% = $21.60) and they would only pay $21.60 in gratuities at Cagney's for one dinner, not $80 - unless I am missing something.

[Shih-tzu]

I can't speak about cruises, but I can attest to the fact that I have been to the "Land of the Mouse" near Orlando several times on the "Free Dining Plan" promotion....

 

At the end of the meal, they bring you the slip showing (1) what you would have paid if paying cash (2) how many of each meal credit you have left on your dining plan and (3) a convenient calculation of what 18% of the cash value of the meal is as "suggested tip". (I can't recall if the word "minimum" was between the suggested & tip words or not...). We must have the backbone of a worm, because were would feel too embarrassed, etc not to leave what they suggest.....which maybe places that do suggest amounts are using the theory of psychology knowing most people will do what is recommended??

 

I'm noticing lately in places that you are given a bill for say $12.95 for your meal. You hand the server a $20.00. First thing they say "Will you be needing change back?" (like they're asking for $7.05??)

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding, but I think what's upsetting most people is that they are being "told" when or who to tip rather than deciding on their own perceived value of service and efficiently of staff? Is it because once there is auto-tips (i.e. in places in Europe the tip is part of the price) that some staff are less inclined to go above and beyond? (service in a lot of places terrible over there....). Some people believe that auto-tipping has lead to a decline in service and employee incentive. Many restaurants in North America automatically add a tip to the bill if you are part of a group (even paying separately) which I have had happen on bus tours, etc.

 

And yes, you can bet that other cruise lines will follow suit...... Remember when everyone went nuts because ONE of the airlines was going to charge $25.00 for a checked bag? Or ONE of the airlines was no longer going to provide meals free of charge? But everyone kept using them as they were lured in with lower "initial" prices. Now they ALL do it...... Of course, cruise ships in the ocean and airplanes in the air know that you can't just "step outside" to get a cheaper or better meal....:D

Edited March 21, 2015 by Shih-tzu
Added a sentence...(or two...)

[SJ]

Oh so many good points! But I am reminded of my first cruise 16 years ago or so when there was one "specialty" restaurant onboard and it was behind a wall of potted palms in the corner of the buffet (Princess) and I couldn't imagine why you would choose to pay to eat there with all of the wonderful "free" food to be found. Well, silly us consumers who continued to pay for a special meal that has now drained the MDRs of the fruit and cheese platters, limited the red meat to one cut and sent the lobster back overboard. Now I've joined the rank and file and have paid the "cover charges" on more than one NCL specialty meal along with an additional tip. So WHY ARE WE SURPRISED that NCL is finding yet another way to add fees to meals that shouldn't be charged a fee in the first place except cruisers for that we are will willing (dumb enough) to pay for it??

 

STOP DINING SPECIALTY. PERIOD. ONLY WAY THEY WILL LISTEN.

 

Please. I want better cheesecake in the MDR.

 

You're so right. We consumers are part of the problem. How long before no food is complimentary or the quality is so poor, you have to go pay for better food.

[Jancruz]

If someone will pose this question in a clear concise manner and just state the facts you want to know about..I will be happy to get a correct answer for you..

Jancruz1

[SJ]

I was fine tipping when service was better than any land vacation in the same price range. Now we are just paying the wages of the service people. I am sure the cruiseline would pay their employees if push comes to shove. If they want to run a business, they have to but since we agreed to pay for them after we bought their product, why would they? The cruiselines have trained us to accept this.

[swedish weave]

I'm a little confused. 4 in Cagney's is $120 ($30 x 4), add to that 18 percent ($120 x 18% = $21.60) and they would only pay $21.60 in gratuities at Cagney's for one dinner, not $80 - unless I am missing something.

 

You failed to include the DSC in the total. If poster is staying in a suite, his total gratuity figure is pretty close to being correct. Add lobster and wine at Cagney's and the total is more than stated.

Edited March 21, 2015 by swedish weave

[Solararc]

If someone will pose this question in a clear concise manner and just state the facts you want to know about..I will be happy to get a correct answer for you..

 

Jancruz1

 

 

Hi Jan, are passengers who have received the UDP as part of the current promo billed this new 18% gratuity? Furthermore are specialty restaurant staff part of the normal DSC?. What is the motivation behind so many increased charges in the last few weeks?

 

 

*Living large one week at a time*

[hawkeyetlse]

You failed to include the DSC in the total. If poster is staying in a suite, his total gratuity figure is pretty close to being correct. Add lobster and wine at Cagney's and the total is more than stated.

They were not assuming a suite, which would put the total over $80. They were adding $51.80 ordinary DSC and $21.60 in specialty tips and calling it "almost $80" (it is $73.40) and trying to make it sound like this poor family would have to pay that much in tips just to have one measly meal at Cagney's. In fact, of course, it covers all of their other meals that day, housekeeping, and everything else the DSC pays for during 24 hours of life on board for a family of 4. Put it that way, and I have no idea if $74 is supposed to sound like a lot or not. It definitely stinks that a month ago it would have been only $48, that is a big jump, and absolutely worth complaining about. But what is the "correct" amount to pay for this 24 hours of service for 4 people?

 

What NCL is saying is that $48 was too little, and I can buy that. It is probably safe to say that what they are charging now, $74, is a little bit more than they absolutely need, which will allow them to stay ahead of costs before they have to raise prices again.

 

Yes, this is a very trusting, naive way of looking at things. Which is balanced out by the cynical, suspicious attitude expressed elsewhere. The truth is somewhere between the two.

[shealea]

I guess what bothers me with this is the fact that there are things being taken away bit by bit. And things being added as extra charges bit by bit.

 

It just seems to me that it's being done in a way, as if hoping that we won't notice too much. And then also that we won't complain and say, NO, THIS HAS GOT TO STOP!

 

NCL seems to think that they can keep taking away from us, and then keep adding these costs on and perhaps we won't notice. I am paying close attention to what is going on. If folks don't complain, why wouldn't they do this?

 

I also need to be certain that when looking at a cruise to book, that I take into consideration the base prices of the different cruise lines, and then pay close attention to what I get and what I don't get with that base price.

 

The thing is, there are a ton of folks that WILL book a cruise based on the base price advertised when it's the lowest base price, without really looking closely at what exactly you will be getting with that base price, and what extra little costs you will be paying here and there throughout your cruise. Those little extra costs add up really quickly, and NCL makes a lot of money from you really quickly also.

 

If NCL can get away with doing this to customers, they will. Heck, why not? They are in it for the $$$$$s. And if we, as customers, go along with it and don't stand up to it, they will just keep on taking those $$$$$s. So, if there's something you don't like, shoot off an email. I have!!

 

But, There are quite a few folks that have said that cruises they have considered and been keeping an eye on for prices have gone up a huge, huge amount for 2016. Alaska being one of them.

 

So, I guess I will just keep an eye on things. I don't have to remain a loyal customer with NCL. They must know that???!!!

[triptolemus]

I don't have to remain a loyal customer with NCL. They must know that???!!!

 

Nope, you sure don't!

 

In fact, in 55 days I will be on my first Princess cruise from San Francisco. They offer some really exciting itineraries to places I like to go on the west coast and... what else? San Francisco is MY home town and a Princess home port. Bonus for me!

 

For my style of cruising, everything I'm reading tells me I will enjoy Princess just fine. Princess is in a position to capitalize on my business, which, as of this year, represents about $9k in bookings. I'm not the biggest spender, but I'm not the $299 booking either (no disrespect intended).

 

Whatever loyalty I have for NCL sure has taken a hit these last few weeks...

Edited March 21, 2015 by triptolemus

[Jancruz]

Hi Jan, are passengers who have received the UDP as part of the current promo billed this new 18% gratuity? Furthermore are specialty restaurant staff part of the normal DSC?. What is the motivation behind so many increased charges in the last few weeks?

 

 

*Living large one week at a time*

 

I will have an answer for you tomorrow I hope..at least for the first two parts, I am not sure anyone will answer the last question for us..

Jancruz1

[Solararc]

Thank you Jan, as you have probably noticed this has polarized some and even disgruntled others,perhaps with a better understanding it will be more acceptable for those who feel this and the DSC are a bad sign of things to come.

 

 

*Living large one week at a time*

[Jancruz]

Thank you Jan, as you have probably noticed this has polarized some and even disgruntled others,perhaps with a better understanding it will be more acceptable for those who feel this and the DSC are a bad sign of things to come.

 

 

*Living large one week at a time*

 

I will do my best to help clear up and/or simplify the new things that are happening with the change of owners..

Jancruz1