Is Turkey safe for Tourist?

[Level six]

We just visited Turkey in February. We did Ephesus on our own, taking the dolmus. We walked from Ephesus to Selchuck alone, about 3 miles. We visited Istanbul and took public transportation everywhere, or walked.

I never once felt unsafe. At all. I am from the USA. I thought everyone I met was very nice and helpful in Turkey. I do not think there is any place in the world that is totally safe, but, you can only judge how you feel about it and decide for yourself. I actually felt more unsafe in Naples than all the places I visited on our 21 day cruise. There is always some amount of danger in any place, but, I never felt that way in Turkey.

[LocoLoco1]

Istanbul is A-OK in my estimation. Walked many an alleyway March 29-April2nd, 2015. No problems. The locals are VERY pro-Western..and I talked to lotsa Multi-lingual younger folks. Wife wants to go back on a 'Shopping Junket' soon, that's the kinda $$stuff$$ I fear the most. Tulips were in Full-bloom by the Millions!! Gorgeous place this time of year. Locomotiveman Tom

[brazilgirl]

I will be going in June. The elections will have passed by the time we arrive , which is a good thing.

http://www.turkeytravelplanner.com/details/Safety/should_i_go.html

 

I live in Brazil , which is rife with crime and violence and my mother is currently visiting from the States. Caution and information are key on any adventure. Living in a bubble may give one an illusion of protection , but the fact is that life can change in the blink of an eye , no matter where you live.

 

The recent chaotic blackout causes me some concern . Hope the issue gets 100% fixed by June.

Edited April 5, 2015 by brazilgirl
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[UUNetBill]

The last time we were in Istanbul was just about two years ago, right after the 'riots' in Taksim Square that were all over the news. And wouldn't ya know it, our hotel was right in Taksim. We read so much about the 'riots' that we actually considered cancelling our cruise, or meeting it in another port...but then we figured, hey, even if there ARE riots, we're probably pretty safe if we just stay in our hotel. So worst case, we'd miss a few days in Intanbul and have to eat room service food. Of course, family and friends thought we were downright insane for going to this 'war zone'...

 

So we arrived in our hotel - and not a protestor to be seen, let alone any rioters. Come to find out, yeah, there had been demonstrations...but they were blown WAY out of proportion by the media. Out guide filled us in on what really went on. In the end, we had a fantastic time in Istanbul - even our evening strolls around Taksim. :eek:

 

These days I'd be a little leery of making too much of a 'look at me, I'm American' scene...but honestly, I try not to do that wherever I go! I'm guessing that if you go and enjoy the people and the city, you'll be fine - and make some fantastic memories along the way.

[cole]

http://www.cruisecritic.com/v-5/news/news.cfm?ID=6769

 

This says that many major lines are no longer going to dock in Turkey at least until things settle down (and who knows when that will be).

Cole

[John Bull]

http://www.cruisecritic.com/v-5/news/news.cfm?ID=6769

 

This says that many major lines are no longer going to dock in Turkey at least until things settle down (and who knows when that will be).

Cole

 

Errrrr, no it doesn't say that many lines won't call.

It says that some won't call.

 

The only significant lines it says have cancelled are NCL and MSC, though that report may be out-of-date because I think Costa & Celebrity have also now cancelled some or all calls.

The other cancellations are pretty trivial, for instance I think Disney had only one planned call in Istanbul (the rest of their Med cruises have always been scheduled for just western Med), Azamara just four calls, etc.

 

No cancellations by the other big lines like RCI, Princess, HAL, Cunard etc., or the majority of smaller lines.

Whether they also cancel will of course depend on how things pan out. And one of those considerations will be money - if bookings slump we can expect them to follow suit even if things do settle down.

 

Tough times for Turkey, but currently only a fairly low proportion of calls have been cancelled so lets not bury the country just yet ;)

 

JB :)

Edited January 29, 2016 by John Bull

[buggins0402]

Errrrr, no it doesn't say that many lines won't call.

It says that some won't call.

 

The only significant lines it says have cancelled are NCL and MSC, though that report may be out-of-date because I think Costa & Celebrity have also now cancelled some or all calls.

The other cancellations are pretty trivial, for instance I think Disney had only one planned call in Istanbul (the rest of their Med cruises have always been scheduled for just western Med), Azamara just four calls, etc.

 

No cancellations by the other big lines like RCI, Princess, HAL, Cunard etc., or the majority of smaller lines.

Whether they also cancel will of course depend on how things pan out. And one of those considerations will be money - if bookings slump we can expect them to follow suit even if things do settle down.

 

Tough times for Turkey, but currently only a fairly low proportion of calls have been cancelled so lets not bury the country just yet ;)

 

JB :)

 

Royal doesn't have any Istanbul cruises to cancel. Kusadasi is still on their itineraries. I seem to recall at least one of the other smaller luxury lines other than Regent cancelled. If you like to march to a different drummer, this is the year to see Turkey.

Edited January 30, 2016 by buggins0402

[John Bull]

If you like to march to a different drummer, this is the year to see Turkey.

 

Rather excessive to put it that way, don't you think Buggins ?

 

There are still way more ships visiting than cancelling, and way way more other visitors and holiday-makers to both Istanbul and the Mediterranean resorts continuing with their plans.

 

Most folk are more able to put risks into perspective, some have less backbone than others. ;)

 

Perhaps different bands rather than a different drummer ?

 

JB :)

[Pet Nit Noy]

Rather excessive to put it that way, don't you think Buggins ?

 

There are still way more ships visiting than cancelling, and way way more other visitors and holiday-makers to both Istanbul and the Mediterranean resorts continuing with their plans.

 

Most folk are more able to put risks into perspective, some have less backbone than others. ;)

 

Perhaps different bands rather than a different drummer ?

 

Perhaps you can explain why you think Buggin's use of different drummer is rather excessive. After all, most American readers will read that phrase and be able to supply the entire quotation from our famous author Henry David Thoreau:

 

"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away."

 

I don't think the quote means anything other than what you seem to be suggesting by your preference for the word "bands" rather than "drummer."

Edited January 30, 2016 by Pet Nit Noy

[John Bull]

Perhaps you can explain why you think Buggin's use of different drummer is rather excessive. After all, most American readers will read that phrase and be able to supply the entire quotation from our famous author Henry David Thoreau:

 

"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away."

 

I don't think the quote means anything other than what you seem to be suggesting by your preference for the word "bands" rather than "drummer."

 

Hi, PNN,

 

"Marching to a different drummer" is a phrase I'd not heard before, so I checked it out.

Isn't the inference that I'm the odd one out, that everyone else is in step?

Cos, as per my post, it's Buggins who's in the minority, hence my objection to the phrase.

If it has a different meaning, then my apologies.

 

It had put me in mind of the mother who watched her son at a Naval college passing-out (graduation) parade.

Talking to her friends later, she said she was so proud of him. "Do you know, he was the only one in step" :rolleyes: :D

 

JB :)

Edited January 30, 2016 by John Bull

[cruisemom42]

Hi, PNN,

 

"Marching to a different drummer" is a phrase I'd not heard before, so I checked it out.

Isn't the inference that I'm the odd one out, that everyone else is in step?

Cos, as per my post, it's Buggins who's in the minority, hence my objection to the phrase.

If it has a different meaning, then my apologies.

 

It had put me in mind of the mother who watched her son at a Naval college passing-out (graduation) parade.

Talking to her friends later, she said she was so proud of him. "Do you know, he was the only one in step" :rolleyes: :D

 

JB :)

 

JB, I think it's a case of cultural differences/cultural misunderstanding...?

 

I got the impression Buggins was trying to say that it's a good year to visit Turkey if you're not like the lemmings who insist that certain death awaits anyone setting foot there, but rather are someone who is able to think for him/herself.

[hawkeyetlse]

I think the disagreement is over whether the number of cruise lines, tour operators, and tourists pulling out of Turkey in fact constitutes a majority. That would mean that more than half of all trips have been cancelled. I did get the impression that most cruise line calls had been cancelled for 2016, but of course this represents a tiny percentage of the total number of tourists visiting Turkey. If there are usually 10 million visitors per year, and that drops to 6 million over the next year, that will be a huge disaster for the country, but which ones are the "lemmings" and which ones are the self-reliant free thinking reincarnations of HDT? Is it really useful to adopt this language and add this layer of judgment on top of a situation that is already difficult enough for the people who are affected by it?

[Pet Nit Noy]

Hi, PNN,

 

"Marching to a different drummer" is a phrase I'd not heard before, so I checked it out.

Isn't the inference that I'm the odd one out, that everyone else is in step?

Cos, as per my post, it's Buggins who's in the minority, hence my objection to the phrase.

If it has a different meaning, then my apologies.

 

It had put me in mind of the mother who watched her son at a Naval college passing-out (graduation) parade.

Talking to her friends later, she said she was so proud of him. "Do you know, he was the only one in step" :rolleyes: :D

 

When Thoreau wrote Walden, the collection of essays which includes this very famous quotation, society was much more rigid and uniform. In the modern era, after all the changes in society, there is far less consensus on most topics. After the Civil Rights era, the Feminist Revolution, greater acceptance of gender differences, more generally, following one's "drummer" simply means following one's own ideals, preferences, dreams. Many minority points of view/lifestyles have so many adherents that these differences are less "lonely" than in Thoreau's day.

 

Henry David Thoreau was very much a lone dissenter about things large and small.

 

Small: As a college student, Harvard required that all its students wear black jackets. Thoreau owned a black jacket, but he was so infuriated by any rule telling him what he could/could not do that he had a tailor make him a green jacket and wore that to class before clashing with the university authorities. I think his mother intervened and Thoreau wore a black jacket to class. However, he got his revenge by reversing his given name -- David Henry -- for the sole reason of upsetting his mother.

 

Large: Thoreau refused to pay his poll tax because the money might be used by the federal government to pay for Mexican American war which he opposed. He served one night in jail even though relatives paid the poll tax in time for him to avoid jail. He was prepared to remain in jail, but the jailer kicked him out after one night.

 

And the list goes on.

[LondonTowner]

Yes, I also thought Buggins was saying now is the time to go to Turkey. I have lots of friends and family who visit every year to places like Kalkan and Kas and wouldn't dream of not going.

 

I have friends who visited Egypt some years ago very shortly after the massacre at Hatshesphut's temple and said they were treated like royalty by the local people.

[John Bull]

JB, I think it's a case of cultural differences/cultural misunderstanding...?

 

I got the impression Buggins was trying to say that it's a good year to visit Turkey if you're not like the lemmings who insist that certain death awaits anyone setting foot there, but rather are someone who is able to think for him/herself.

 

Thanks, cruisemom & others.

And if that was Buggins' intention, then my sincere apologies.

 

"Two countries divided by a common language" etc etc ;)

 

JB :)

Edited January 30, 2016 by John Bull

[iancal]

We are thinking that travel in Turkey and Greece may be a bargain this year as it was last year.

 

Might be worth a trip back this fall.

Edited January 30, 2016 by iancal

[buggins0402]

Thanks, cruisemom & others.

And if that was Buggins' intention, then my sincere apologies.

 

"Two countries divided by a common language" etc etc ;)

 

JB :)

 

Cruisemom and others had it right. And, I tend to speak my own unintelligible language when I'm doing my two finger IPad posting.:D

Edited January 30, 2016 by buggins0402

[buggins0402]

When Thoreau wrote Walden, the collection of essays which includes this very famous quotation, society was much more rigid and uniform. In the modern era, after all the changes in society, there is far less consensus on most topics. After the Civil Rights era, the Feminist Revolution, greater acceptance of gender differences, more generally, following one's "drummer" simply means following one's own ideals, preferences, dreams. Many minority points of view/lifestyles have so many adherents that these differences are less "lonely" than in Thoreau's day.

 

Henry David Thoreau was very much a lone dissenter about things large and small.

 

Small: As a college student, Harvard required that all its students wear black jackets. Thoreau owned a black jacket, but he was so infuriated by any rule telling him what he could/could not do that he had a tailor make him a green jacket and wore that to class before clashing with the university authorities. I think his mother intervened and Thoreau wore a black jacket to class. However, he got his revenge by reversing his given name -- David Henry -- for the sole reason of upsetting his mother.

 

Large: Thoreau refused to pay his poll tax because the money might be used by the federal government to pay for Mexican American war which he opposed. He served one night in jail even though relatives paid the poll tax in time for him to avoid jail. He was prepared to remain in jail, but the jailer kicked him out after one night.

 

And the list goes on.

 

PNN, if we ever find ourselves on the same O ship, I want to stroll down to the Trivia one night and watch you in action! :). I loved your "Jenny" phone number tip on the O board!

Edited January 30, 2016 by buggins0402

[happy trailer]

 

Most folk are more able to put risks into perspective, some have less backbone than others. ;)

 

JB :)

 

 

I got the impression Buggins was trying to say that it's a good year to visit Turkey if you're not like the lemmings who insist that certain death awaits anyone setting foot there, but rather are someone who is able to think for him/herself.

 

Is it really useful to adopt this language and add this layer of judgment on top of a situation that is already difficult enough for the people who are affected by it?

 

With the occasional exception, I've refrained from commenting on these sort of discussions, mainly because of the appearance of the same post after post after post by the same 2 or 3 people who make sure to post on every thread they can find which questions whether it is safe to travel to Europe, or Turkey, or wherever.

 

But this time, you've gone too far, and have turned to bullying. 'Less backbone' 'lemmings'- if that's not bullying, I don't know what is.

 

You feel comfortable traveling, fine, great for you. But how dare you come to a thread where a member expresses their concern and even fear of visiting an area where there have been terror attacks, and with a possible perceived threat of continuing attacks, and respond by taunting them with name calling and insults? Does that make you feel brave? Puff out your chest and thump your fists and say 'Me brave, me travel to places others fear'?

 

There's nothing wrong with caution, and certainly nothing wrong with fear. Things are potentially scary nowadays in Turkey and in many places in Europe. It's more than that, though- for many people, especially people from the US who may not have done much international travel (and even those who have), it's frightening to imagine being in a foreign country when a terror attack happens. How do I contact my family? How will they contact me? What if am injured- will I be able to communicate with the medical personnel? It's being in a strange place, in strange times. It's not which news station you follow (who is to say the news you follow is more accurate?!); it's not which country's foreign office's alerts you turn to (gee, no chance of underlying politics or economics in them, eh?)- it's travelers going out of their comfort zone during a time of current events which have many, many people feeling ill at ease.

 

Personally, we have and will continue to travel to Europe, and would not necessarily rule out travel to Turkey (I was in Euphesus in November)- but we did several things before our most recent trip in order to make ourselves more comfortable about our travel. For example, we made sure our papers were in order, and that our kids had all our contact info; copies of our passports; and the phone numbers of the embassies in the countries we'd be visiting. We also did not 'advertise' our citizenship, and my husband wore a hat as a head covering. We did what we could to not put ourselves at any extra risk.

 

Still, as much as we've been trained to be to be aware of our surroundings and to take note of the people around us, we are fully cognizant that there are no guaranteed safeguards against a terror attack. Yet we continue our travels.

 

But there is one thing you will never find us doing- mocking, or making any sort of disparaging remark about or to people who express concerns for their safety. That level of disrespect can only serve one purpose, and it has nothing to do with the person who is expressing the concerns. It serves only the person doing the mocking, who for whatever reason needs to bolster their own ego and justify their life choices.

 

...but rather are someone who is able to think for him/herself.

 

Wow, Cynthia- just wow. People who lean toward caution don't think for themselves? Because only you and people who feel the same way you do are independent thinkers? I certainly hope you have more respect for other people than that.

Edited January 31, 2016 by happy trailer

[cruisemom42]

 

Wow, Cynthia- just wow. People who lean toward caution don't think for themselves? Because only you and people who feel the same way you do are independent thinkers? I certainly hope you have more respect for other people than that.

 

I can see from your last several posts directed at me that you have decided to misinterpret what I'm saying, and I am very sorry for that.

 

First, if you reread, you should be able to see that with the quote above I was trying to simplistically lay out, for the benefit of JB, what the reference to "marching to one's own beat" is about -- I was not providing my own opinion on any specific situation.

 

Second, do you think that posts should only reflect one side of an issue? With all respect, I'm not sure you are fully aware of a lot of the ugly talk, xenophobic sentiments and outright nastiness that is being heard more and more loudly over here. If I see someone saying something that is (as far as I know) untrue, should I keep quiet? Hasn't that road been traveled before, with tragic results?

 

Third, you are being very unfair to me. I have said in many of my previous posts here that people have every right to not travel, to have fears, to be concerned. What I cannot abide is when people distort the facts to fit their own agenda or viewpoint.

 

Just a few of my posts on the topic below. I wouldn't exactly say that I sound bullying or particularly disrespectful -- I was trying for even-handed and factual:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=48896552&postcount=29

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=48302101&postcount=64

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=48304274&postcount=70

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=46034220&postcount=63

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=48232775&postcount=4

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=48248145&postcount=33

 

 

Again, I'm sorry if you can't see that. Did I leave such a bad impression with you? :(

[buggins0402]

http://www.bartleby.com/119/1.html

[happy trailer]

Again, I'm sorry if you can't see that. Did I leave such a bad impression with you? :(

 

Because the only reason someone could possibly think you were even somewhat in the wrong is if they didn't like you?!?!?! Wow. Sadly, I'd say you just reinforced the point of my post.

 

http://www.bartleby.com/119/1.html

 

Long ago helped set the standards of my life :-)

Edited January 31, 2016 by happy trailer

[John Bull]

Just a thought, Ruth, and an attempt to balance these forums.

 

If you glance through the European forums you'll find them littered with threads about the dangers, both real and imaginary.

An example titled "Warning at Roma Termini Train Station" concerns a man seen with a gun. Which turned out to be a toy gun the guy had bought for his son. :rolleyes:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2306243

And plenty of threads about the atrocities in Paris and Istanbul.

 

Now check through the forums on US ports.

Including a 62-page thread entitled "I live in Charleston".

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=628998&page=62

Lots of great info about Charleston, but not a single post about last year's atrocity there.

Nor could I find a single thread about the atrocity in San Bernadino or the park shooting in NOLA or any other atrocity committed in the US.

And it's more than a little significant that we Europeans don't start threads about them either.

So can you not understand how grieved we Europeans are about the excessive and often alarmist posts for every event and non-event in Europe?

And how some totally un-savvy posters who can't even read a map tar all European countries with the same brush?

 

If we did post our concerns when there's an atrocity in the US, I can just imagine the defensive uproar from American contributors. Even more so if we posted our trepidation about visiting the US because of some atrocity in Mexico, Nicaragua etc. So try to understand that's the way we feel when folk get their fears about European countries all out of proportion.

 

It has nothing to do with "chest-thumping me-brave" :rolleyes:.

As I & others have been at pains to emphasise, it has everything to do with getting the risks in proportion, Hence, for instance, the innumerable references to comparisons with traffic accidents etc, by both by Europeans and Americans & other non-Europeans, especially the well-travelled ones.

And, certainly in the main, we've not "bullied" anyone to travel when they don't feel comfortable. But by the same token we tire of them foisting their illogical & dis-proportionate scare-mongering fears onto others.

 

Yes, "less backbone" was un-called-for and inappropriate. My apologies, written in frustration at some of the alarmist nonsense.

But stop defending European countries from alarmist nonsense? No chance ;)

 

JB :)

[happy trailer]

JB,

 

Thank you for your calm and well balanced reply (and for your gracious apology- clearly, your 'less backbone' comment really threw me!).

 

Confession: Even though it's been almost twenty years since I lived in the States, over the past few months there were many times when your posts mentioning attacks in the US got my hair up. But then one day, I found myself sort of seeing it from your point of view. There just seemed to be a period of time when every day brought news of another gunman opening fire in a public place somewhere in the US, and I could understand how someone from outside the country might feel hesitant about visiting, or want to raise the comparison between terror attacks in the EU and those in the States.

 

But even as I started seeing it from your point of view, I understood that to a large number of CC'ers the comparisons would not sink in, for one very basic reason: to them the EU is foreign; the US home. I know it goes against the grain of everything you've been trying to point out, but it's a matter of emotions more than logic, and so very difficult to convince people to see things from a different perspective.

 

Please keep in mind that the majority of people in the States are neither multi-lingual nor multi-cultural, which leads to lumping most of the world under the banner of 'foreign.' Foreign language, foreign food, foreign culture (and foreign maps). Many people, even those who are fairly well traveled, often feel uncomfortable when they are in a foreign place, and that uncomfortableness can sometimes lead to feeling a bit afraid. Put that together with devastating terror attacks, and the fear has a chance to become overriding and perhaps illogical. I think that many of the CC posts that get under your skin are the products of the above.

 

However, having said that, I do want to say that comparisons to traffic accidents tend to raise my hair. Here in Israel, we know that generally more people are killed in traffic accidents annually than in terror attacks, but that knowledge doesn't in any way lesson our trepidation or fear when we are in the midst of a wave of terror (as we are currently). There is no comparison between being aware of passing cars when crossing the street or of other drivers when traveling on a highway to the daily reports of terrorists running down the street and randomly attacking people with a machete. If you are trying to appeal to the logic of travelers from the US by comparing either traffic accidents or terror attacks in the US to the chance of being the victim of a terror rampage while on a visit to Europe, I would imagine you will get the same response; it's not an issue of logic. A person can grasp the risk of being in a traffic accident. And unfortunately, in this day and age, people are even starting to grasp the risk of being shot on their own turf. But put them somewhere foreign, and the thought of being a victim is something very difficult to comprehend- there are just too many 'foreign' variables to deal with.

 

When someone tells me they are afraid to visit Israel, or asks me (as I invariably -and understandably- get asked several times per cruise) how can I not be afraid to live in Israel, I will offer assurances that life goes on here almost normally, with the additional comment that most visitors never feel any fear once they are actually in the country. But I also tell them that I understand their fear and hesitation to visit, and do not try to press them any further. I have several wonderful friends whom I've met on cruises, or via postings on CC, and I have offered them a place to stay whenever they chose to visit. When they prefer to put off visiting for now, I don't argue, even if that means another year will pass before we get together again. I've pointed out to friends planning visits to Europe that we are only an inexpensive, short, jet-lag free hop away, but I never get frustrated or angry when they say Israel is too dangerous - even if it's while we are experiencing an extended period of quiet. I believe that emotional decisions deserve the same respect as those that come from logic, so I tell my friends I understand and hope that the time will come soon when they feel comfortable coming here.

[cruisemom42]

Because the only reason someone could possibly think you were even somewhat in the wrong is if they didn't like you?!?!?! Wow. Sadly, I'd say you just reinforced the point of my post.

 

 

 

 

Clearly, what I'm saying and what you are reading are two very different things, so there's little point in my continuing to respond.