Why not 1 really good formal night instead of 2 half hearted ones?

[Stitchman]

Thanks. Am keen to know if the company is doing anything special or different to mark the night, or just lipstick on a pig sort of thing.

 

lol ..... that's metaphor of the day :)

[American Bear]

Here's an idea,,,

instead of 1, 2 formal(?) nights, how about none!:D

[LMaxwell]

Here's an idea,,,

instead of 1, 2 formal(?) nights, how about none!:D

I'm fine with that too. If they don't want to make efforts to differentiate the evening I say skip the useless label and let people go Freestyle, like NCL. They basically do now, especially on the 3 to 7 day cruises, so may as well officially condone it and put to rest the arguments.

 

Can't ride the fence forever.

[tip]

Here's an idea,,,

instead of 1, 2 formal(?) nights, how about none!:D

 

It would work for me! Let's stop pretending that we belong to the country club or trying to re-live our high school prom.

[George C]

We still like the formal , would not buy another Tux but as long as current one fits will still wear it.

[Stitchman]

We still like the formal , would not buy another Tux but as long as current one fits will still wear it.

 

 

they're lovely evenings George.

I just wish people wouldn't be so pig headed about it really.

[nealstuber]

It would work for me! Let's stop pretending that we belong to the country club or trying to re-live our high school prom.

 

 

Plan to re-live prom night with DW as many times as I can. Not very many venues left for this so if it leaves RCCL, we likely will too.

[RocketMan275]

Plan to re-live prom night with DW as many times as I can. Not very many venues left for this so if it leaves RCCL, we likely will too.

 

You can relive your prom night as many as seven nights on a seven night cruise.

Edited May 5, 2015 by RocketMan275

[shipshape sam]

For you, it has "created disappointment". Others might find the "disappointment" in being refused entry into the MDR.

 

BTW, if no one "is 'telling me", what is the purpose of this thread?

 

 

Shipshape sam: "What if some expectation you really wanted/expected was not realized after planning your cruise/saving for your cruise/taking time off from work/(you fill in the reason), I think you might think differently in how it might effect your enjoyment."

 

We're really talking about two different things. You're talking about the enforcement of the current code. I'm talking about what the content should be, should it be changed to all smart casual?

 

 

 

Shipshape sam: "I did have cruises where the majority did adhere to the formal dress and it was fun and we did anticipate the evening of getting dressed up, taking pictures, seeing what everyone would wear. The current policy or level of adherence has lessen the cruise experience for us. Other things have also changed our experience both positive and negative."

 

I'm glad you enjoyed that. Myself and many others would not find that enjoyable at all. Why is the enjoyment of those who agree with you more important than the enjoyment of those who agree with me?

 

Please don't misunderstand.

 

I agree with you that if the cruise line has a dress code then it should be enforced with very few exceptions. For example, someone who has just lost their hair because of chemo, then let me wear a hat. Wife and I don't agree with trying to get around the dress code. We just don't do the MDR on formal nights.

 

I believe the code will be changed, sooner or later, to smart casual on all evenings. I believe that more accurately reflects the desires of most cruisers. I do not believe one group of cruisers' enjoyment is more important than another's.

 

I believe that there is room for compromise. Some ideas. You can segregate the MDR into formal/smart casual in a variety of manners. Traditional dining could be formal and MTD could be smart casual. Early seating could be formal and late smart casual. Or the reverse. At seating in MTD, you could request a formal or smart casual table.

 

Despite the many ways for compromise, many of those who like formal nights insist that no compromise is possible since it would adversely affect the 'ambiance'. For example, I've seen numerous complaints that formally dressed diners in Grande often encounter others who are not formally dressed. Well, so what? Are we to restrict those who do not dress formally to their cabins? Just so some can have a heightened degree of ambiance?

 

 

Thanks for your response/thoughts.

 

I am not suggesting that my desire takes priority over yours or others. I am suggesting that we enjoyed formal nights when there was widespread adherence. We did not enjoy it while mingling with people in polo shirts or even T-shirts. There are numerous polices that one could show where the cruise lines do not enforce what they contend is their policy or suggested policy or what passengers 'think' may be a cruise line policy.

 

For example, I am sure many people might not like a fellow cruiser who brings a 'boom' box to the pool deck and turns it up. Hey, that is want they like, so their like is just as important as the person say 4 loungers down who is not wanting to listen to music that was not expected on a cruise. Who wins? What is the compromise?

 

Again, we could go on and on. Cigar smoke anyone?!

 

My point is really this. We booked cruises with the expectation of formal nights, as my example, and the cruise line to your point did not enforce their own suggested attire policy. We no longer bring formal attire and would not participate in a formal setting unless again, it became widespread and enforced. We still have lots of fun, but that unique, IMHO, aspect of sailing is gone for us. To my previous post also, there are many positive changes and many negative changes in our opinion.

 

I agree the cruise lines are changing lots of policies and will most likely get rid of formal nights.

Edited May 5, 2015 by shipshape sam

[richstowe]

It would work for me! Let's stop pretending that we belong to the country club or trying to re-live our high school prom.

Whats wrong with a country club atmosphere or the prom ?

[LMaxwell]

Whats wrong with a country club atmosphere or the prom ?

 

Nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but for RCI "Formal" night means trotting out the Titanic staircase backdrop and taking photos of you mid-dinner. They stopped making any effort or semblance or making it a special evening.

 

But if some individuals take particular enjoyment in dressing up for dinner, more power to them; they are not limited to 1 or 2 nights, there is no maximum threshold and they should do it every night. I really say that honestly; if they enjoy it, do it.

 

I just think RCI calling anything "Formal" or "Royal" night without doing anything is just to placate the rubes who need the title but don't notice they aren't getting anything out of the deal. They should just call it "Dress to impress" night and if they aren't going to put any effort into it beyond that to make it nicer for guests, so be it. This forum holds RCI to a very low standard.

[Paulette3028]

This forum holds RCI to a very low standard.

 

Sorry, this forum has 'no ability' to hold RCI to any standard. We are not in any way in control of what they do....people here are only in control of what 'they do'. If a cruiser doesn't like what RCI is doing they have the ability to choose to cruise on another line -- that is the ultimate influence a cruiser has....but for every cruiser who leaves another books.

 

Beyond that, we have no ability to walk into a corporate meeting discussing any shipboard policy, and add our input.

 

The standards I see that other cruisers hold for themselves is fairly low, and I have no control over that as well. Should I be demanding that they be left at the next portstop or confined to their cabin?

[LMaxwell]

Sorry, this forum has 'no ability' to hold RCI to any standard. We are not in any way in control of what they do....people here are only in control of what 'they do'. If a cruiser doesn't like what RCI is doing they have the ability to choose to cruise on another line -- that is the ultimate influence a cruiser has....but for every cruiser who leaves another books.

 

Beyond that, we have no ability to walk into a corporate meeting discussing any shipboard policy, and add our input.

 

The standards I see that other cruisers hold for themselves is fairly low, and I have no control over that as well. Should I be demanding that they be left at the next portstop or confined to their cabin?

You may hold whatever opinion you feel is best. Mine is that this forum routinely glosses over issues and gives RCI a pass. They do read this forum, after all they have a verified account, but you will notice over time that if you "aren't a cool kid" and have a real gripe the cheerleaders will run you out of town.

 

Instead of vocally demanding more of their experience this forum is very vocal about accepting whatever lowered standard is provided.

 

So I say abandon "formal" night entirely OR provide events and activities to make the night stand out.

[Paul65]

But if some individuals take particular enjoyment in dressing up for dinner, more power to them; they are not limited to 1 or 2 nights, there is no maximum threshold and they should do it every night. I really say that honestly; if they enjoy it, do it.

 

If you really say that honestly, then you are extremely naive about social interaction. Sure, anyone can dress up on any night that they please. But dress-up events are largely about a different type of social interaction. If you go somewhere "dressed to the nines" and everyone else is wearing t-shirts and shorts, it's just not the same atmosphere.

 

There are lots of social activities and customs that are fun, at least for some people, in the appropriate setting, that might seem weird or even concerning, if you did them alone.

 

Of course, there are lots of people in these discussions who seem socially clueless, evidenced by how often you get comments like, "I don't let what someone else is wearing ruin my vacation." Those comments are either intentionally disingenuous, or they reflect the same kind of naivety that you are showing. It's not really about someone else's clothes ruining your meal or your vacation, but the fact that we humans are social animals, and some of the social customs associated with a "formal night" just lose their luster, if a significant number of people treat it like just any other night.

 

I know you like to pin the blame on the cruise line for not making it "special" enough or differentiating it enough from other nights, but I think it's almost completely on the people. Tastes are changing, and fewer people are interested in the dress-up thing, so it makes it less fun for those who are into it. When I first started cruising 20+ years ago, the formal nights, like today, were not much different from any other night on the ship, except that the suggested attire was formal (and they tried to have some of the "fancier" menu items like lobster, as they still do today).

 

I say that just to try to explain to you that it's not the same to just dress formal whenever you want, since you didn't seem to get it. As for me, I enjoy the formal nights, and I find that, at least in my experience, the demise of formal nights is greatly overstated. We still dress up, and find that most others in the dining room do, as well. The level of dress has dropped somewhat over the last couple decades, but not as drastically as some report.

[Paulette3028]

You may hold whatever opinion you feel is best. Mine is that this forum routinely glosses over issues and gives RCI a pass. They do read this forum, after all they have a verified account, but you will notice over time that if you "aren't a cool kid" and have a real gripe the cheerleaders will run you out of town.

 

Instead of vocally demanding more of their experience this forum is very vocal about accepting whatever lowered standard is provided.

 

So I say abandon "formal" night entirely OR provide events and activities to make the night stand out.

 

You opinion is valid for RCI to either abandon 'formal night' or provide events/activities to make it stand out.....but the ONLY way a cruiser has to hold them accountable for that is with their 'wallet'.

 

When I was raising children, I could hold my children accountable for what they did, and when I did not like what they did, I had recourses to take. Cruisers have recourses to take -- with their wallet.

 

This is a forum, not anything more.....if RCI reads it and hears displeasure from cruisers and does something about it, fine....of course what they do might make others unhappy....who the devil knows.

 

On this forum, we have no ultimate ability to hold RCI to any standard.....we all can have our opinions on everything they do....and we all do.

[LMaxwell]

If you really say that honestly, then you are extremely naive about social interaction. Sure, anyone can dress up on any night that they please. But dress-up events are largely about a different type of social interaction. If you go somewhere "dressed to the nines" and everyone else is wearing t-shirts and shorts, it's just not the same atmosphere.

 

There are lots of social activities and customs that are fun, at least for some people, in the appropriate setting, that might seem weird or even concerning, if you did them alone.

 

Of course, there are lots of people in these discussions who seem socially clueless, evidenced by how often you get comments like, "I don't let what someone else is wearing ruin my vacation." Those comments are either intentionally disingenuous, or they reflect the same kind of naivety that you are showing. It's not really about someone else's clothes ruining your meal or your vacation, but the fact that we humans are social animals, and some of the social customs associated with a "formal night" just lose their luster, if a significant number of people treat it like just any other night.

 

I know you like to pin the blame on the cruise line for not making it "special" enough or differentiating it enough from other nights, but I think it's almost completely on the people. Tastes are changing, and fewer people are interested in the dress-up thing, so it makes it less fun for those who are into it. When I first started cruising 20+ years ago, the formal nights, like today, were not much different from any other night on the ship, except that the suggested attire was formal (and they tried to have some of the "fancier" menu items like lobster, as they still do today).

 

I say that just to try to explain to you that it's not the same to just dress formal whenever you want, since you didn't seem to get it. As for me, I enjoy the formal nights, and I find that, at least in my experience, the demise of formal nights is greatly overstated. We still dress up, and find that most others in the dining room do, as well. The level of dress has dropped somewhat over the last couple decades, but not as drastically as some report.

That's the point of the thread. People carry on about the setting and atmosphere and RCI doesn't do their part to provide a special atmosphere. Cresting atmosphere is about much more than holding people to a dress code. If there's nothing special about the evening then there's no reason to enforce a dress code for it.

 

But people are still free to dress up if they want. There's nothing naive about that statement. If that's how they are comfortable and enjoy themselves there's nothing wrong with it. Sort of like others are comfortable and enjoy themselves being more casual and there's nothing wrong with that either. The host provides no reason to dress to the nines. They used to. they should stop this sham. Formal night is a meaningless title now. It signified nothing. RCI can make it a special event but have chosen not to. Does that reflect guest preference or does it reflect cost savings? A little of both perhaps?

 

Saying nothing was different 20 years ago is disingenuous. Lots of things were different. You've stated numerous times that they weren't important to you. That's fine. Buy they were different and were reasons to go the extra mile. It's no shock people don't want to participate when it is just a label with no substance.

Edited May 5, 2015 by LMaxwell

[Paul65]

That's the point of the thread. People carry on about the setting and atmosphere and RCI doesn't do their part to provide a special atmosphere. Cresting atmosphere is about much more than holding people to a dress code. If there's nothing special about the evening then there's no reason to enforce a dress code for it.

 

But people are still free to dress up if they want. There's nothing naive about that statement. If that's how they are comfortable and enjoy themselves there's nothing wrong with it. Sort of like others are comfortable and enjoy themselves being more casual and there's nothing wrong with that either. The host provides no reason to dress to the nines. They used to. they should stop this sham. Formal night is a meaningless title now. It signified nothing. RCI can make it a special event but have chosen not to. Does that reflect guest preference or does it reflect cost savings? A little of both perhaps?

 

I get that this is your opinion. But formal attire generally has very little to do with what you think it does. It's just a decision to make an event formal or not formal. You can have a formal wedding or an informal wedding in the same venue with the same music/food/etc. There are some fabulous (and expensive) restaurants that are casual, and some formal ones that are just so-so.

 

And I also disagree with you, obviously, on the fact that they "used to" provide more reasons to dress to the nines. They really didn't. It was just the attire of the night. There were things different 20 years ago, like sommeliers for instance, but they were different on every night of the cruise, compared to today, not just on formal nights. So, no, I was not being disingenuous there. It has nothing to do with whether they were important to me, in this discussion, but rather whether they were important to, or exclusive to, "formal night."

Edited May 5, 2015 by Paul65

[Paulette3028]

Does that reflect guest preference or does it reflect cost savings? ....... It's no shock people don't want to participate when it is just a label with no substance.

 

People don't want to participate and that reflects the guests preference -- label or no label.

[BamaGuy44]

 

Of course, there are lots of people in these discussions who seem socially clueless, evidenced by how often you get comments like, "I don't let what someone else is wearing ruin my vacation." Those comments are either intentionally disingenuous, or they reflect the same kind of naivety that you are showing. It's not really about someone else's clothes ruining your meal or your vacation, but the fact that we humans are social animals, and some of the social customs associated with a "formal night" just lose their luster, if a significant number of people treat it like just any other night.

 

 

Well said. Obviously what someone wears to dinner won't ruin my vacation, but even a t shirt and shorts guy like me can appreciate the fact that a room full of people in formal wear and the social customs involved is what makes it a "formal night", not me just deciding to dress up on my own.

 

That said, there's nothing the cruise line can do to get people (in general) fired up about formal nights again. Tastes and expectations have shifted on the mass market lines. Can't put the genie back in the bottle now.

[ryano]

Tastes and expectations have shifted on the mass market lines.

 

Thankfully. As there is not much at all, from what I have read, that appeals to me from the "good old days" of cruising except maybe better food ;) Even that is subjective as many well seasoned cruisers here have stated the food wasnt THAT much better "back then".

[Paul65]

Well said. Obviously what someone wears to dinner won't ruin my vacation, but even a t shirt and shorts guy like me can appreciate the fact that a room full of people in formal wear and the social customs involved is what makes it a "formal night", not me just deciding to dress up on my own.

 

That said, there's nothing the cruise line can do to get people (in general) fired up about formal nights again. Tastes and expectations have shifted on the mass market lines. Can't put the genie back in the bottle now.

 

Agreed. There are people on both sides of the "debate" who seem intent on either "putting the genie back in the bottle" or trying to chase the genie as far away from the bottle as possible. I'm more in the middle. I don't want formal nights discontinued, nor do I want any kind of strictly enforced dress code. Just let things evolve naturally.

 

That evolution may lead to formal nights going away, eventually, but there seem to be an awful lot of people who still enjoy it still.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Paul65

[palofmine]

I think RCI could make formal night popular again, especially on 7 day itineraries, by going from 2 half hearted (weak) nights to 1 really spectacular night. White glove service. Special captains and officer events all evening. Midnight buffet on formal night. An ice carving show and display. Display some of the grandeur thrown away to save costs the past 10 to 20 years.

 

The thought being maybe if the cruise line put some Chutzpah back into their efforts more people would get excited for it and participate. I'd look forward to one really nice event versus what currently is really no different than other evenings offerings.

 

I LOVE formal night. I want 3 of them on my 9 day ( I cant find out if there are 2 or 3)

[RocketMan275]

 

Of course, there are lots of people in these discussions who seem socially clueless, evidenced by how often you get comments like, "I don't let what someone else is wearing ruin my vacation." Those comments are either intentionally disingenuous, or they reflect the same kind of naivety that you are showing. It's not really about someone else's clothes ruining your meal or your vacation, but the fact that we humans are social animals, and some of the social customs associated with a "formal night" just lose their luster, if a significant number of people treat it like just any other night.

 

 

I'm neither "clueless" or 'naive". However, I would never think it appropriate to tell someone that they must dress in a certain way to enhance my enjoyment. If would rather enjoy something a bit less than coerce someone into doing something they do not wish to do.

 

But, the way another person dresses or acts will not adversely affect my enjoyment. I learned, the hard way, to avoid giving anyone the power to affect my happiness with trivial things like the clothes they wear. It's not about being a social animal. It's about taking charge of your life.

[LoveyHowell]

We would get all glitzed up if there were a reason to. Right now it's just a fashion parade in the dining room and then everyone goes back to change for the evening to something more comfortable because there's no formal activities or anything special going on anywhere. Our first cruise many years ago had some special things that are now gone. I don't blame people for not caring about it. The host doesn't care either. OP has a good idea!

[American Bear]

Agreed. There are people on both sides of the "debate" who seem intent on either "putting the genie back in the bottle" or trying to chase the genie as far away from the bottle as possible. I'm more in the middle. I don't want formal nights discontinued, nor do I want any kind of strictly enforced dress code. Just let things evolve naturally.

 

That evolution may lead to formal nights going away, eventually, but there seem to be an awful lot of people who still enjoy it still.

 

 

I'd agree with you, and would add that is most likely the reason RCL is not enforcing any strict dress code, just suggesting.

I'd agree with those who see the evolution moving towards a less dressier MDR.

I also think its possible some ships in the future advertised with strict MDR formal nights for those who want it.

I do think RCL reads the threads, and I think it affects them to a point in their business, but not anywhere near as much as ships sailing with empty cabins.

I also think most of the name calling on cruise critice is done by those who want strict enforcement of the suggested dress code, so it makes sense to me that they seem to be frustrated because they are losing the evolution battle.

Happy cruising.