Early Del Rio Legacy vs the Sheehan Legacy

[sparks1093]

I'm all for NCL raising the bar, but it's going to take more than additional fees and higher prices to do so. That is all I've seen so far. Nothing in the way of enhancing the customer experience. How about better quality cuisine, a higher staff ratio, enhanced entertainment, better amenities in the cabins, more attention to detail, etc. etc. More diverse itineraries are a start, but it's going to take more than that. Princess and Royal Caribbean already have more diverse itineraries and IMO offer a better onboard product (I know that is debatable).

 

I agree that NCL will never be a luxury line. I don't think that is the intent and it's not physically possible anyway. They may strive to be a Princess or Royal Caribbean, but again it's going to take some enhancements to the product to do so.

 

I'm actually willing to pay more for an NCL cruise than I do today, but I have to see something in return. I haven't seen that so far. Everything so far doesn't really appear to benefit the customer. Only the stockholders.

 

I agree. I have read that Del Rio does want to move NCL up so it is considered a gateway line to lines such as Oceania and Regent, but only time will tell if that will work. I do know that he wants to use Oceania type pricing to entice people to book early to avoid having to drastically cut prices close to sail away. I've looked at Oceania's model and don't care for it- our normal price is $xx,xxx per person but if you book now you get 50% off, free flight, free this and free that. Thing was when I compared it to a mainstream line by the time I added in the "free" stuff on Oceania to the cruise fare for the mainstream line I still came out saving thousands. I have no interest in free stuff if it's stuff that I wouldn't buy in the first place.

[Oppalopa]

It doesn't take a financial genius to figure out why. When you increase cruise prices, increase the service charge, add new fees like room service, and reduce expenses like fireworks and who knows what else, of course profits are going to be higher. Most of the business already on the books had little choice but to pay these new and higher fees or incur penalties if they canceled.

 

Let's revisit this a year or more down the road when the picture is much clearer if this strategy is working long term. FDR is certainly no genius. Any new CEO can come in and raise prices and add a bunch of new fees and cut costs. Looks great to stockholders in the short term and obviously he is pandering to them. Rarely does it work as a long term strategy. Consumers are not idiots. Something has to be given in return and so far that hasn't happened.

I agree.

[hypercafe]

I think it's funny people try to devide the low cost lines in different segments, the whole industry decided itself by price first and what is offered second. NCL is just trying to make more money any way that they can. I really do not look at them as a feeder for Oceania as I think most NCL passengers would be board to tears. You know what they say, call me what you want, just show me the money. We are on the Gem in October. Frank, you got the money so after my trip on the Breakaway last year eating Golden Coral Food in the atmosphere of a high school lunch room, SHOW ME THE BEEF.

[hondorner]

I'm all for NCL raising the bar, but it's going to take more than additional fees and higher prices to do so. That is all I've seen so far. Nothing in the way of enhancing the customer experience. How about better quality cuisine, a higher staff ratio, enhanced entertainment, better amenities in the cabins, more attention to detail, etc. etc. More diverse itineraries are a start, but it's going to take more than that. Princess and Royal Caribbean already have more diverse itineraries and IMO offer a better onboard product (I know that is debatable).

 

I agree that NCL will never be a luxury line. I don't think that is the intent and it's not physically possible anyway. They may strive to be a Princess or Royal Caribbean, but again it's going to take some enhancements to the product to do so.

 

I'm actually willing to pay more for an NCL cruise than I do today, but I have to see something in return. I haven't seen that so far. Everything so far doesn't really appear to benefit the customer. Only the stockholders.

 

All I can say is Rome wasn't built in a day. It's barely 8 months since FDR took over and named Andy Stuart. Everyone seems to like Stuart; that's the first thing Del Rio accomplished that was better than Sheehan, who named that restaurant guy. Now, we have prices starting to line up, which is the only way the other stuff can happen. The itineraries are improving, something he mentioned in his first conference call that no one seems to remember.

 

The other things will come: remember the loyalty at Oceania: that didn't happen by him being a bad leader. The Regent folks also did not like him at first, but most have come to recognize what he has accomplished. Of course some haters have left, easily replaced. Sometimes some guests have to be "fired".

 

Two years from now, most will not remember any of this controversy, and most will accept Del Rio -- or not care.

[eroller]

All I can say is Rome wasn't built in a day. It's barely 8 months since FDR took over and named Andy Stuart. Everyone seems to like Stuart; that's the first thing Del Rio accomplished that was better than Sheehan, who named that restaurant guy. Now, we have prices starting to line up, which is the only way the other stuff can happen. The itineraries are improving, something he mentioned in his first conference call that no one seems to remember.

 

The other things will come: remember the loyalty at Oceania: that didn't happen by him being a bad leader. The Regent folks also did not like him at first, but most have come to recognize what he has accomplished. Of course some haters have left, easily replaced. Sometimes some guests have to be "fired".

 

Two years from now, most will not remember any of this controversy, and most will accept Del Rio -- or not care.

 

 

Time will tell. I do agree that I like his appointment of Stuart. Well liked by travel agents and guests. Also at least Del Rio learned a valuable lesson at Renaissance, that travel agents play an important role to the success of the line. This was by his own admission. I'm not a travel agent but I do appreciate the service they provide.

 

I'm willing to give it some time to see if he does more than just make NCL more expensive to sail on. Just like guests sometimes have to be fired, so do cruise lines. I've fired NCL and other lines in the past. I like to revisit a couple years later to see how things have evolved. In any case none of this is very devastating to me as I'm not the least bit loyal to NCL, but I was very happy to see the progress they made under Sheehan. He made NCL a viable player in this industry again. Del Rio inherited a healthy company, revitalized and on the right track with a solid business plan and great newbuilds in the pipeline. Hopefully he doesn't screw it up royally trying to implement strategies that work well at premium and luxury lines, but don't necessarily translate well to mass-market lines.

[sjbdtz]

I agree. I have read that Del Rio does want to move NCL up so it is considered a gateway line to lines such as Oceania and Regent, but only time will tell if that will work. I do know that he wants to use Oceania type pricing to entice people to book early to avoid having to drastically cut prices close to sail away. I've looked at Oceania's model and don't care for it- our normal price is $xx,xxx per person but if you book now you get 50% off, free flight, free this and free that. Thing was when I compared it to a mainstream line by the time I added in the "free" stuff on Oceania to the cruise fare for the mainstream line I still came out saving thousands. I have no interest in free stuff if it's stuff that I wouldn't buy in the first place.

 

Exactly. I don't think it will work either. I use my airline points to get my airfare, so having it "included" doesn't work for me. I prefer to use my hotel points for hotel nights, and I like to have control of my air routing & hotel locations.

 

I want unobtrusive service, not "sir" this, and "sir" that.... drives me nuts. That's why we never returned to Princess. It was the worst cruise of all the ones we've taken, because it felt too formal.

 

 

Stephen

.

[hypercafe]

I'm all for NCL raising the bar, but it's going to take more than additional fees and higher prices to do so. That is all I've seen so far. Nothing in the way of enhancing the customer experience. How about better quality cuisine, a higher staff ratio, enhanced entertainment, better amenities in the cabins, more attention to detail, etc. etc. More diverse itineraries are a start, but it's going to take more than that. Princess and Royal Caribbean already have more diverse itineraries and IMO offer a better onboard product (I know that is debatable).

 

I agree that NCL will never be a luxury line. I don't think that is the intent and it's not physically possible anyway. They may strive to be a Princess or Royal Caribbean, but again it's going to take some enhancements to the product to do so.

 

I'm actually willing to pay more for an NCL cruise than I do today, but I have to see something in return. I haven't seen that so far. Everything so far doesn't really appear to benefit the customer. Only the stockholders.

 

Why would NCL strive to be a Princess or RCCL? NCL's clame to fame is the whole freestyle/resort casual deal. To be like those lines is a step back. I think their road block to moving up the chain are the ships, they just have too many people on them. The ones that were OK like the Dawn were changed to add lots more cabins. IMHO the Breakaway was like a cattle car, especially at dinner time, the pool deck is a joke, even the staff thinks so. I really do not see how they can overcome this since more of the same is coming. I really prefer NCL but sail on X as their ships have far more public space, too bad.

[maywell]

All I can say is Rome wasn't built in a day. It's barely 8 months since FDR took over and named Andy Stuart. Everyone seems to like Stuart; that's the first thing Del Rio accomplished that was better than Sheehan, who named that restaurant guy. Now, we have prices starting to line up, which is the only way the other stuff can happen. The itineraries are improving, something he mentioned in his first conference call that no one seems to remember.

 

The other things will come: remember the loyalty at Oceania: that didn't happen by him being a bad leader. The Regent folks also did not like him at first, but most have come to recognize what he has accomplished. Of course some haters have left, easily replaced. Sometimes some guests have to be "fired".

 

Two years from now, most will not remember any of this controversy, and most will accept Del Rio -- or not care.

Pretty much this - even Carnival 'fired' some passengers by pretty much ending rum-running by changing the bottle policy. NCL pretty much made itself attractive to those that don't mind the changes for whatever reason while at the same thing getting rid of most of those that won't pay any. Sometimes, a company have to do drastic, perhaps stupid things, to get rid of 'dead weight'(un-PC to say, but that's what companies wants to call some people).

 

 

Hondorner, you're right - give it about 2017, and only grumbling will come from CC board because well, they like complaining to pass the time for the next trip on whatever cruise line they winded up on....

 

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Edited August 7, 2015 by maywell

[sparks1093]

Pretty much this - even Carnival 'fired' some passengers by pretty much ending rum-running by changing the bottle policy. NCL pretty much made itself attractive to those that don't mind the changes for whatever reason while at the same thing getting rid of most of those that won't pay any. Sometimes, a company have to do drastic, perhaps stupid things, to get rid of 'dead weight'(un-PC to say, but that's what companies wants to call some people).

 

 

Hondorner, you're right - give it about 2017, and only grumbling will come from CC board because well, they like complaining to pass the time for the next trip on whatever cruise line they winded up on....

 

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My family of 4 spent almost $1300 on the Gem last year and that doesn't count the excursions that were booked ahead of time, so if NCL wants to consider me to be deadweight so be it. I will spend money on a cruise but there is a limit. And there will be a tipping point where I will likely no longer even consider NCL for my future cruises. I am not sure when that point will be reached.

[swedish weave]

If you study the history of cruise lines, it is risky business to take a cruise line "upscale".

 

Most of the cruise lines that have tried to move upscale or those which have tried to maintain the "upscale image" are now either out of business or are owned by one of the mass market lines.

 

That should be a red flag for Del Rio, but he apparently thinks he can defy history and pull this change off.

[maywell]

My family of 4 spent almost $1300 on the Gem last year and that doesn't count the excursions that were booked ahead of time, so if NCL wants to consider me to be deadweight so be it. I will spend money on a cruise but there is a limit. And there will be a tipping point where I will likely no longer even consider NCL for my future cruises. I am not sure when that point will be reached.

Here's the thing about changes, doesn't matter if its McDonalds, Capital Grille, Macys, Ralph Lauren, Marriott, Kmart or whatever - the changes are going to affect you to the point of being completely offend so bad, that no longer go there for years or forever. OR you still going to shop / visit / buy whether it offends you or not for whatever reason - and it looks like you 're going to sail with NCL 'for price is right', while others sail NCL on it because it not XYZ line, while others will because it has _______(fill in the Blank with whatever), etc.

 

 

Like I said before - not everyone can handle changes especially when its happening so quickly or the same year it happen. Some need years to adjust that it happen while others need just seconds to get a handle on it. Heck, some people can anticipate changes before it even a thought years from now while others can't see the writing on wall even though it was there for decades; which personally, is exactly the problem with some posters on this forum - difference being it was done under Del Rio even though it actually started under Sheenan (there's actual articles quoting Sheehan about majority of the changes last year during the Prestige purchase, before it got implemented).

 

Gist is - You're going to have deal or just go eslewhere with your buying power but don't act like NCL is the only company that 'fires' customers or goes through changes all the time - all companies, even non-profits and government do it. That how the world works - is it ethical and right? Depends on whom its being directed at and/or feels they've been insulted rudely - so apparently 30-something posters on CC and about 1000-something that got their trips cancelled or whatever feel like they been 'wronged' by NCL. Meanwhile, there about 30,000 berths sailing each week and the majority still sailing despite misgivings, just don't care and/or happy to pay along AKA feeling that NCL did right by them. Who's right and wrong in this situation - Neither, but there comes a point where complaining about a situation that here to stay instead of moving on to better and greater things, is just plain old dwelling on stupidity and bitterness for nothing.

 

 

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[newmexicoNita]

I consider NCL budget as well. It's definitely a step above CCL, but no where near RCI. In order to become equal with RCI, they have to start improving their entertainment and onboard amenities.

 

But a cruise is a cruise, I'm just glad to sail :)

 

I so diagree with this: I think CCL, RCI and NCL are much more alike than different. Each has their pros and cons, each has a reputation, but reputations do not tell the whole story. The only think that does stand out about RCI is their top of the line ships are probably superior to CCL and NCL. As for entertainment, I am surprised you would say that. Of course like everything in life, most things are subjective, but one thing most people agree about is: NCL has outstanding entertainment, not just the showrooms but the piano bars, the atruim nightly entertainment and other places around the ship. And what onboard amenities would you like to see on NCL that are not there now? I am just asking this out of curiosity, not argueing about it.

[Hendricks Clan]

 

Oh my gosh..you are not in the real world and have no idea what you are talking about..

Jancruz1

 

What parts? All my information came from you know actual published sources, not my own love fest for all things Del Rio and Oceania.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Hendricks Clan

[sparks1093]

Here's the thing about changes, doesn't matter if its McDonalds, Capital Grille, Macys, Ralph Lauren, Marriott, Kmart or whatever - the changes are going to affect you to the point of being completely offend so bad, that no longer go there for years or forever. OR you still going to shop / visit / buy whether it offends you or not for whatever reason - and it looks like you 're going to sail with NCL 'for price is right', while others sail NCL on it because it not XYZ line, while others will because it has _______(fill in the Blank with whatever), etc.

 

 

Like I said before - not everyone can handle changes especially when its happening so quickly or the same year it happen. Some need years to adjust that it happen while others need just seconds to get a handle on it. Heck, some people can anticipate changes before it even a thought years from now while others can't see the writing on wall even though it was there for decades; which personally, is exactly the problem with some posters on this forum - difference being it was done under Del Rio even though it actually started under Sheenan (there's actual articles quoting Sheehan about majority of the changes last year during the Prestige purchase, before it got implemented).

 

Gist is - You're going to have deal or just go eslewhere with your buying power but don't act like NCL is the only company that 'fires' customers or goes through changes all the time - all companies, even non-profits and government do it. That how the world works - is it ethical and right? Depends on whom its being directed at and/or feels they've been insulted rudely - so apparently 30-something posters on CC and about 1000-something that got their trips cancelled or whatever feel like they been 'wronged' by NCL. Meanwhile, there about 30,000 berths sailing each week and the majority still sailing despite misgivings, just don't care and/or happy to pay along AKA feeling that NCL did right by them. Who's right and wrong in this situation - Neither, but there comes a point where complaining about a situation that here to stay instead of moving on to better and greater things, is just plain old dwelling on stupidity and bitterness for nothing.

 

 

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I am not dwelling on anything- I post my opinion on a public forum when the mood strikes, which actually takes up very little of my day. Only time will tell if Del Rio's gamble will pay off.

[Travelcat2]

A bit more clarification. I said that FDR did not sell Oceania and Regent (meaning to NCHL) -- PCH did. I probably should have said Apollo. Regent was also purchased by Apollo (they subsequently put them under the Prestige Cruise Holdings umbrella). Sometimes private companies sell just to make money. In the case of Regent, the ships were not being kept up properly by the original owners and was running half full. Passengers loved Regent/Radisson because they were spending so much money on their passengers. It ultimately was good that they were purchased by Apollo.

 

Additionally, I was not trying to say that Regent and Oceania affect the bottom line more than NCL - I was speaking to the amount of money paid per passenger. For instance, if one passenger paid $10,000 for a 7 night cruise - based on double occupancy, this would be $20,000/cabin/week. Obviously you could get a cabin on NCL for considerably less. So, it is likely that a typical Regent ship (700 passengers) is bringing in perhaps the same as a NCL ship with 2,000 passengers (did not do any math -- just a guesstimate).

 

Agree that it will be interesting to see the numbers next year - after giving the changes a bit of time to set in. NCL is probably losing some passengers now and will gain some new ones over the long haul. Regent lost passengers when they went all-inclusive -- when they changed their smoking policy and when they began to include excursions. While some passengers never returned, Regent ended up more than making up for the lost customers. It should also be noted that many cruise lines are having difficultly in filling their ships this year (and part of last year) on many itineraries due to issues in various parts of the world (especially itineraries that include Russia, and/or Russia). So, while NCL is showing good numbers this year, the same may not be said for Regent (not sure and if numbers are lower than last year, it isn't because of anything FDR has done -- he has made no significant changes in 2015).

 

Hopefully posters can just read the information - come up with their own conclusions and not use my honest assessment of the situation as a reason to once again call me delusional:o

[Jancruz]

I am not dwelling on anything- I post my opinion on a public forum when the mood strikes, which actually takes up very little of my day. Only time will tell if Del Rio's gamble will pay off.

 

Well he has just had his contract extended until 2019 so I guess you are all stuck with him and will have plenty of time to see if he helps or hurts NCL..

Jancruz1

[eroller]

Well he has just had his contract extended until 2019 so I guess you are all stuck with him and will have plenty of time to see if he helps or hurts NCL..

 

Jancruz1

 

 

It will be interesting to look back in a couple years and see how it all panned out.

[Travelcat2]

Well he has just had his contract extended until 2019 so I guess you are all stuck with him and will have plenty of time to see if he helps or hurts NCL..

Jancruz1

 

Great news - thanks for sharing this information!

[emcelh]

It will be interesting to look back in a couple years and see how it all panned out.

 

Yes, it will be interesting. In the meantime, people should book what ever cruise/cruise line meets their needs. If they're looking for a good book to read on vacation I suggest "Who Moved My Cheese".

[maywell]

Well he has just had his contract extended until 2019 so I guess you are all stuck with him and will have plenty of time to see if he helps or hurts NCL..

Jancruz1

Hooray even more gnashing of teeth at CC NCL forums plus at good time too - economic jobs report is looking rosy to point Wall Street is up. In other words, business as usual.

 

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[nbsjcruiser]

Now we are hearing Del Rio has decided firework displays are too demanding and so off to the chopping block it goes. If true, how many more Del Rio cuts "to ensure we’re focusing the best overall guest experience possible" will he implement before he has demolished the NCL Freestyle brand Kevin Sheehan worked so hard to build?

 

"To ensure we’re focusing the best overall guest experience possible." Translation: we were looking for expenses we could cut that we felt wouldn't overly affect new cruise bookings and cutting fireworks fit the bill.

 

It's becoming apparent Del Rio's business model is to maximize profit through reduced services, increased fares, fees and gimmicks. Sheehan on the other the hand was more about building the brand and cultivating repeat loyal customers which ultimately would lead to increased profits.

 

I really enjoyed the Sheehan brand of Freestyle cruising and it will be missed. No other cruise line offers a similar experience. I can only hope Del Rio's business model fails and he reverts back to emphasizing building the brand and less about immediate profit. I'm concerned as I see the airline industry has been adding more and more fees and there seems to be no end in sight. Their profits are up; customer satisfaction is down, but profits always seem to win in the end.

 

I wish all cruisers and potential cruisers read Cruise Critic and were cognizant of how Del Rio is leading NCL down the path of pay more for less. Reduced profit would get Del Rio's attention.

 

Del Rio wants increased profit similar to those wanting to lose weight overnight with a diet pill.

 

Sheehan believed increasing profit was similar to a dieter who loses weight via lifestyle changes, proper diet, building muscle through exercise . . . in other words . . . he earned it!

 

Okay, through this post I've solved nothing, but I vented. I feel better. Now I will focus on the positive and thoroughly enjoy my next cruise no matter what Del Rio may throw at me or take away from me!

 

We've cruised on NCL, RCI, Carnival and Princess and I can say without hesitation:

1. Every cruise line is looking to cut costs. Cheaper cuts of meat in the MDR (hello Carnival), making you pay more for a "good steak" in the upscale Chops restaurant (I'm looking at you RCI)

2. Service is being cut back to the point where its obvious

3. The number of people it takes to serve an area like the MDR is being cut back - do more with less.

4. The customer no longer is the #1 motivating factor. Set your standards low and many customers will justify it as keeping prices competitive - yep that's you guys over there on the Carnival board.

 

So its the same on every line I've cruised on. ITs a shame but I've lowered my expectations after 15 years of cruising.

[tartan cruiser]

Wow Del Rio hasn't even completed a full year and he's offered a contract extention. Anyone know what the advantages would be to do this? I'm pretty sure of one thing. If earnings tank he's a goner but will be paid through 2019. I liked NCL better pre-Del Rio. Wishing for the best and hoping my future NCL cruises won't disappoint.

[Hendricks Clan]

We've cruised on NCL, RCI, Carnival and Princess and I can say without hesitation:

1. Every cruise line is looking to cut costs. Cheaper cuts of meat in the MDR (hello Carnival), making you pay more for a "good steak" in the upscale Chops restaurant (I'm looking at you RCI)

2. Service is being cut back to the point where its obvious

3. The number of people it takes to serve an area like the MDR is being cut back - do more with less.

4. The customer no longer is the #1 motivating factor. Set your standards low and many customers will justify it as keeping prices competitive - yep that's you guys over there on the Carnival board.

 

So its the same on every line I've cruised on. ITs a shame but I've lowered my expectations after 15 years of cruising.

 

True but at the same time other lines like Carnival have also added things/revamped, to help offset some of the cuts. My problem with NCL is they have yet to add anything to the customer experience to offset some of the changes.

[maywell]

Wow Del Rio hasn't even completed a full year and he's offered a contract extention. Anyone know what the advantages would be to do this? I'm pretty sure of one thing. If earnings tank he's a goner but will be paid through 2019. I liked NCL better pre-Del Rio. Wishing for the best and hoping my future NCL cruises won't disappoint.

That usually doesn't happen unless of course, the next quarter or year numbers are ridiculous good. I have a weird feeling it is, contrary to what the chronic complainers think.

 

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[maywell]

True but at the same time other lines like Carnival have also added things/revamped, to help offset some of the cuts. My problem with NCL is they have yet to add anything to the customer experience to offset some of the changes.

 

Other than cutting the fireworks show and changing a room service fee - Has NCL actually cut back on services such as the MDR, the buffet, cleaning the staircase, etc since the changes?

 

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