Silversea Water Cooler: Welcome! Part Two

[Tothesunset]

Meaningless soundbites are dead. Long live meaningless soundbites.

[les37b]

Irony is alive and kicking... and screaming. :D

[specialcruisegirl]

Yes, Miriam Margolyes is something of a treasure - perhaps we should suggest her for Prime Minister?

 

Any Brits now have views on which of May and Leadsom is more suitable for the top job? For me, the more we hear about AL the less and less suitable she seems to be. I am pretty old-fashioned, in that I find total honesty to be very important, and have a bit of an aversion to people who 'big themselves up'.

 

 

Love Miriam too....down to earth and doesn't give two hoots!

 

My vote for the top job would be Ms May.....but as usual the proof will be in the pudding!

 

Very stressful week here but finally starting to come down from my soap box dealing with the local hospital...absolute disgrace....

 

Sophia [emoji5]

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mjnvoyager]

So sorry you have had trouble dealing with hospital. Looking after an elderly loved one has many challenges and we all sympathise.

 

As to the election of our new PM am in a quandary. Heart is not with Theresa May. She was a remainer and stayed out of the race very cynically. I liked what I saw of Andrea Leadsom but not thrilled with her in her PM campaign. Sure Boris is pulling her strings. That may be a good thing or a bad thing. Can't make up my mind. Probably the best for the country is TM. She hasn't made a great Home Secretary but has been in politics longer and is more "streetwise". I'm also not happy that she is a type one diabetic. The stress of PM may make that difficult to control. Being married to a diabetic I know the problems.

 

Anyway I'm put of the U.K for 3 weeks so will be studying my iPad for developments. The Alps were beautiful today.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[lincslady]

I think that AL has probably just shot herself in the foot with her comments about being a mother. TM I am sure does not have all the necessary qualities, but at least does have some of them.

 

Can't see the necessity for the party vote to take so long - it should be settled much sooner for the sake of some sort of stability.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Good Morning All,

 

I have to agree that Theresa May is clearly going to be the best person for the role. I have always believed that the argument that only a brexiter can do the job is one that has been too easily accepted without it seems to me the use of much critical debate. Theresa will be much better accepted by her EU counterparts and she is a patient, obstinate negotiator who seems genuinely honest and straight forward. Anyone who remembers her taking on the police at their conferences knows she also has cojones. She is also imho more attuned to the EU style.

 

I was impressed with AL through the debates but I was dissapointed to see the growing evidence that she had over-sexed-up her CV. Not because it shows important gaps in her experience but simply the lack of mature judgement that she thinks she can do it and get away with it. She is now crossed off my list. :)

 

I do not agree that her comments about her being better for the job because she is a mother is the wrong thing to say. If I may be forgiven I'd go further and say that the way this has been magnified wrongly into something it isn't plays into my growing frustration with the uncontrolled political correctness that pollutes our lives to our increasing detriment. In my view people would have taken the comment at it's face value if it hadn't been a genuine advantage that AL has over TM for many. It is an advantage that AL genuinely seems to believe she has over TM, and she has the right to say so, even if you then disagree with it.

 

What it seems to me has happened is that some clever TM sidekick has recognised the potential harm to TMs chances by this statement of a plain fact and that it might be seen by some as harmful and has returned play with the "I am offended card" and people are imho too quick to join the game and voice the "I am offended for Theresa May by proxy" ... and so TM will win the point in this silly game that we indulge people in. I see nothing at all offensive in what she has said, but I know the silly game will make it seem so and it saddnes me that too many are sucked into the silly game without it seems too much critical thought. The pretence of being offended is much worst than the comment actually being originally made imho.

 

I wish we would set the ever growing political correctness list that is added to almost on a minute by minute basis torn up. It is bad enough seeing the daily numbers of people claiming they have been offended and throwing the most extreme histrionics at almost anything. But at the same time as indulging the histrionics of those claiming to be offended by this or that, we also see people joining the list of offendants through our collective indulgence of those who feel it right to be offended on other people's behalf ie "I am offended for someone else by proxy". This always makes the growing band of daily histrionic proxy offendants appear sanctimonious and righteous - but I think it hideous. And as a result no serious issues ever gets discussed in an adult way because you know that someone is going to throw a huff and the discussion derailed.

 

With a 2% swing on the EU vote for example producing a different result, I wondered whether if we hadn't had the constant racist accusations by one side about the other whether the results might have been different and the world a completely different place. Is it completely daft to suggest that political correctness has cost the EU it's future?

 

I wish we could simply bring our kids up to believe that "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." I wish we all brought them up to simply understand that we learn as much - if not a lot more - from bigotry and stupidity and the expression of extreme views, as we do from from clever people saying sensible things and that learning from them might make the world better informed. How can we bring up kids to understand what it right if we stop them from hearing what is wrong? If we could bring them up to to believe that a rational response to stupidity and bigotry is to shrug one's shoulders and learn from it and hope others do as well, than to shout back and shout down. I think listening to bigotry and stupidity reduces the number of people that are bigoted rather than as many feel increases the number.

 

Oh well that is my argument today in favour of banning this terrible epidemic of political correctness in all it's terrible guises and disguises ...... and out for a nice walk up the drove road whilst it is sunny.

 

:)

 

Jeff

Edited July 9, 2016 by UKCruiseJeff

[lincslady]

Jeff - obviously AL has the right to say what she genuinely believes - not that I agree with her, and I am a mother too - but it does show a lack of political savvy, sadly. I do not feel aggrieved on TM's behalf at all; she is a pretty tough lady I am sure, but our PM in the future does need to have that surefootedness in what they say. I realise this does not always equate with complete honesty, but tact, tactics, and thinking before you speak are very important in a politician of any kind, especially a country's leader. (Think of TB and his 'with you whatever', and the stupid Crabb and his online sex chats).

 

My real objection to her as our PM remains that she has exaggerated - lied about in fact - her CV. She may also have some problems in revealing her tax situation, something which does not exercise me quite so much but generally would not go down well with the public. So far it does not seem as if May has any skeletons in the cupboard, but who knows? You could say that today's politicos are unlucky in that everything eventually comes out now , whereas the sinners in the 19th century and early 20th got away with murder.

[Tothesunset]

AL has also been careful NOT to reveal certain aspects of financial entanglements in particular in a company specialising in buy to let properties and other companies that have been less than wholly successful. But then she might have been distracted advising the Bank of England on fiscal policy and supervising Ghandi's campaign for independence.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Jeff - obviously AL has the right to say what she genuinely believes - not that I agree with her, and I am a mother too - but it does show a lack of political savvy, sadly. I do not feel aggrieved on TM's behalf at all; she is a pretty tough lady I am sure, but our PM in the future does need to have that surefootedness in what they say. I realise this does not always equate with complete honesty, but tact, tactics, and thinking before you speak are very important in a politician of any kind, especially a country's leader. (Think of TB and his 'with you whatever', and the stupid Crabb and his online sex chats).

 

My real objection to her as our PM remains that she has exaggerated - lied about in fact - her CV. She may also have some problems in revealing her tax situation, something which does not exercise me quite so much but generally would not go down well with the public. So far it does not seem as if May has any skeletons in the cupboard, but who knows? You could say that today's politicos are unlucky in that everything eventually comes out now , whereas the sinners in the 19th century and early 20th got away with murder.

 

Thanks, yes I fully understood that wasn't your view. My comment was about the way the way the opposing side and the press plays it.

 

I agree fully with all your other points particularly that it shows a lack of savvy in not predicting how it would play out. Her sin is not thinking what she thought, but that she didn't keep her trap shut. That is why I agree she is unsuitable. I think therefore her saying what she said was a good thing, because it illustrates the lack of nous and for that reason might be one of many nails that seals her fate.

 

Jeff

[UKCruiseJeff]

AL has also been careful NOT to reveal certain aspects of financial entanglements in particular in a company specialising in buy to let properties and other companies that have been less than wholly successful. But then she might have been distracted advising the Bank of England on fiscal policy and supervising Ghandi's campaign for independence.

 

My fear is that too many brexiters will fall into the silly trap of believing it has to be her only because she was the brexiter.

 

I don't know whether the bigger irony has been lost in all this. This is a bit nerdy so be indulgent!

 

We have in my view TM who I believe was in her heart a brexiter but thought it the better strategy for her career best interest to stay with remain, because she calculated that brexit would lose and she didn't want to be on that losing side. So she thought that being firmly on the winning side to remain would make her the logical next choice of her party for leader and PM.

 

And AL who was by her own admission a remainer until a year or so ago, who pretended to be a brexiter because she thought remain would win but she would have a better shot of support from the conservative party brexiters in the subsequent inevitable leadership battle after a winning remain vote.

 

So they both banked on a remain win. Both of them got the results wrong!

 

Jeff

Edited July 9, 2016 by UKCruiseJeff

[les37b]

My fear is that too many brexiters will fall into the silly trap of believing it has to be her only because she was the brexiter.

 

I don't know whether the bigger irony has been lost in all this. This is a bit nerdy so be indulgent!

 

We have in my view TM who I believe was in her heart a brexiter but thought it the better strategy for her career best interest to stay with remain, because she calculated that brexit would lose and she didn't want to be on that losing side. So she thought that being firmly on the winning side to remain would make her the logical next choice of her party for leader and PM.

 

And AL who was by her own admission a remainer until a year or so ago, who pretended to be a brexiter because she thought remain would win but she would have a better shot of support from the conservative party brexiters in the subsequent inevitable leadership battle after a winning remain vote.

 

So they both banked on a remain win. Both of them got the results wrong!

 

Jeff

 

She has a fair point that not being a mother is a negative. Look at Cameron - He's rubbish! lol But in truth she has been found wanting and TM by her pledge of a clean contest has taken the upper hand and of the two is the better leader IMHO.

 

I have to say, I've not given my support to AL during this contest at any point, but I've also not been a supporter of TM either. In fact I dont think any of the potentials are particularly great, though each of them are better than the Labour party leadership struggle. Corbyn has been a disaster to them and hearing on the news today that Angela Eagle is about to launch a challenge to him on Monday I never thought I'd ever say this, but Corbyn is a better candidate than Eagle. She was without a shadow of a doubt the weakest speaker on the remain side and truly awful. And pretty ironical that her main argument throughout her comments was that Boris was only standing because he wanted to lead his party. I expect that might come back to bite her. I hope so because whoever is in power, there is a need to have a strong opposition.

[ernieb]

"I wish we would set the ever growing political correctness list that is added to almost on a minute by minute basis torn up. It is bad enough seeing the daily numbers of people claiming they have been offended and throwing the most extreme histrionics at almost anything. But at the same time as indulging the histrionics of those claiming to be offended by this or that, we also see people joining the list of offendants through our collective indulgence of those who feel it right to be offended on other people's behalf ie "I am offended for someone else by proxy". This always makes the growing band of daily histrionic proxy offendants appear sanctimonious and righteous - but I think it hideous. And as a result no serious issues ever gets discussed in an adult way because you know that someone is going to throw a huff and the discussion derailed."

 

Hello Jeff.

I know very little, other than what I read here, about your UK politics. However, I totally agree with your sentiments above regarding political correctness. We have the same problem in the US and it is a major reason that Trump has so much support including mine. You may recall that he was our only politician to support the brexit.

 

Ernie.

[UKCruiseJeff]

"I wish we would set the ever growing political correctness list that is added to almost on a minute by minute basis torn up. It is bad enough seeing the daily numbers of people claiming they have been offended and throwing the most extreme histrionics at almost anything. But at the same time as indulging the histrionics of those claiming to be offended by this or that, we also see people joining the list of offendants through our collective indulgence of those who feel it right to be offended on other people's behalf ie "I am offended for someone else by proxy". This always makes the growing band of daily histrionic proxy offendants appear sanctimonious and righteous - but I think it hideous. And as a result no serious issues ever gets discussed in an adult way because you know that someone is going to throw a huff and the discussion derailed."

 

Hello Jeff.

I know very little, other than what I read here, about your UK politics. However, I totally agree with your sentiments above regarding political correctness. We have the same problem in the US and it is a major reason that Trump has so much support including mine. You may recall that he was our only politician to support the brexit.

 

Ernie.

 

Ernie,

 

I don't profess to understand much about US politics ..... to be honest I am still totally mystified by the whole process that ends up with a president. Whenever I start reading about the process .... I just stop. It is so confusing. :(

 

I do however find myself with mixed feelings about how our shared frustrations with political correctness ends up with your preference of potential presidents as being Mr Trump. I realise that the field of choice is small, but wouldn't it be better if you treated political correctness as simply a frustration and used a different set of criteria to choose a President - even if that only throws up Hilary? :D

 

What do I know. :confused:

 

Anyway Dubya's besty friend had a gruesome week this week and I thought you might find his diary this week of interest.

 

"My Week - Toney Blair"

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/my-week-tony-blair-according-to-hugo-rifkind-z966fb6cx?shareToken=406214210e2d88ac704ca2ba4e7a1f1f

 

I'm not sure all the nuances will be so funny to you ... and it would be funny if the whole thing weren't so sad.

 

Jeff

[Mark_K]

Political correctness beyond being a frustration, is also an indicator of the adherent's world view.

[ernieb]

While Hillary escaped prosecution this past week, her arrogance and deception have been highlighted. Her lies to the American people and to Congress have been proven. I could never support her.

[ernieb]

I did find Tony's diary interesting and mostly quite funny. However, he included the following statement that I feel is very important.

 

"If I was back in the same place with the same information, I continue, I would do the same."

 

This is something I feel is often overlooked. Hindsight is always 20 - 20. But based on the information GW and Tony had at the time, I would have made the same decisions. It is only with hindsight that the information became erroneous and the decisions became mistakes.

 

By the way, how in the hell do you place the icons in the body of your messages? I've been trying for years and can only get them in the title.

 

Thanks.

Ernie.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Ernie,

 

the Chilcot report found that their was no intelligence that justified either going to war or the way in which Tony Blair represented the intelligence to justify his decision. The only person that seems to feel otherwise was Tony Blair.

 

Next time you post ... have a play now ... you should see a number of smilies along the right hand side. If you select one (by tapping it wiith your finger for example .... it will place the smiley where your cursor is placed.

 

Jeff

[les37b]

 

"If I was back in the same place with the same information, I continue, I would do the same."

 

This is something I feel is often overlooked. Hindsight is always 20 - 20. But based on the information GW and Tony had at the time, I would have made the same decisions. It is only with hindsight that the information became erroneous and the decisions became mistakes.

 

I'm very sure he wouldn't. Oh I'm not suggesting that he wouldn't have blindly played sock puppet, but he wouldn't have got himself down on record 9 months before the war telling GWB that the UK will be there right beside the US when it started. No one who wants to act on intelligence would have said that and its pretty clear the only concerns were finding reasons NOT to go to war. :eek: :eek:

 

This report was never going to suggest that Blair would be going to the Hague for War crimes - but its come pretty close.

 

Jeff, can you remember the UN WMD expert who complained that Campbells intelligence reports had been sexed up. (I think thats what he was anyway!).... who suspiciously was found camping in a tent committing suicide without a suicide not (hmmm)..... Did that get mentioned in Chilcot?

 

Edit... David Kelly.

Edited July 9, 2016 by les37b

[UKCruiseJeff]

I'm very sure he wouldn't. Oh I'm not suggesting that he wouldn't have blindly played sock puppet, but he wouldn't have got himself down on record 9 months before the war telling GWB that the UK will be there right beside the US when it started. No one who wants to act on intelligence would have said that and its pretty clear the only concerns were finding reasons NOT to go to war. :eek: :eek:

 

This report was never going to suggest that Blair would be going to the Hague for War crimes - but its come pretty close.

 

Jeff, can you remember the UN WMD expert who complained that Campbells intelligence reports had been sexed up. (I think thats what he was anyway!).... who suspiciously was found camping in a tent committing suicide without a suicide not (hmmm)..... Did that get mentioned in Chilcot?

 

Edit... David Kelly.

 

 

http://www.iraqinquiry.org.uk/search/?query=kelly

[UKCruiseJeff]

Jane Seymour has discovered Singapore ......

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-3682032/Singapore-s-perfect-medicine-Dr-Quinn-s-JANE-SEYMOUR-s-ideal-city-pristine-beautiful-offering-best-food-world.html

 

Jeff

[tgh]

Hm I suspect my Singapore will have little in common with Jane's….. I called and asked about hiring the boat but it's booked out…….

 

Otoh I'm now quite looking forward to the break, a bit of a change as I was quite initially undecided if I would bother going.

 

Terry , the racist murders in the US have been headlines here , and have caused me some sadness. How do you see the situation panning out , say at 6 months and then 6 years ?

 

Chatting to some youthful US citizens in Patagonia a few months ago , they all reacted very negatively to the mention of The(n probable) Republican pres candidate.

 

There seems to be a commonality flowing through world democracies, a cry for honesty perhaps , any honesty , even radical honesty.

How much have the Saudi's contributed to Hilary's campaign ?

 

The "Phoenix arisen" rebirth of Pauline Hanson is our talisman for this change in 'Oz.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Good afternoon Coolers from an F1 and Wimbledon Engalnd ......

 

......and the last day of "T in the Park" from Scotland! Yesterday was good with The 1975s playing "The Sound" as they did at Glastonbury last week. Calvin Harris was the headline last night .... and bleedin' 'ell..... it is great to learn about what is happening in music. Talk about a spectacle. It must have taken him years and heaven knows how much cash to put on that show. It is extraordinary genius. It's last night is tonight with including The Red Hot Chilli Peppers if that is your cup of tea ... It's on TV BBC4 this evening if anyone wants to watch or set the timer depending on whether football is your thing.

 

tgh .....hope you enjoy Singapore. You have to let it wash over you and go to places where locals are and just let it envelop you if you are of that disposition.

 

:)

 

Jeff

[specialcruisegirl]

Jeffers.....what a wonderful win for Andy and despite his sometimes 'Diva' behaviour he did deserve to win....it was a great match.

I'm sadly not into the Red Hots or indeed football......but having a Google and YouTube moment in the dark of last night l see that the great Scotty Moore passed away just recently...for those Elvis fans he was there at the start and has since played with some legends all of which are there on YouTube for enjoyment......it's a sad life.....tonight l am quite gutted as the Jools Holland lot are playing local with the lovely Ruby Turner....and I've only just clocked it....it's the Llangollen annual music festival.....l also missed the Quo two years ago.....senior moments et al!!

 

S[emoji4]

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[UKCruiseJeff]

Could you imagine if they combined the Cardiff Food Festival with Ruby Turner!

 

To be honest I wouldn't be bothered at all about Jools Holland unless Ruby Turner was singing. After the third boogy woogy it gets a bit thin doesn't it.

 

I know you love quo, but in my view what they lose on musicality they gain on decibels .......:eek:;)

 

I'm getting old.

 

:)

 

Jeff

[lincslady]

S - we were delighted to see Andy and Lewis win on the same day! It obviously meant a lot to Andy, with the tears afterwards. He is one of those people you do not warm to instantly, but eventually realise he is a genuine and nice bloke. I know people who have met him, and say exactly this. Having said that, Raonic is a great talent for the future, so powerful.

 

I have never dared to say I love listening to the Quo!! Obviously they are, in a way, rubbish, but you can't help tapping your feet or even dancing. I know of a quite elderly person who goes to every concert of theirs.

 

Hope you and the NHS have managed to sort things out - I am having several dealings with them this coming week, and not looking forward to it - various tests etc. and then waiting quite a while for results. Plus we have had a beautiful peahen in the garden, owner/adopters trying to lure her back, which is not easy!

 

Regards to all Coolers in these generally rather troubled times - let's all keep our peckers up as they say (or is that rude in the USA?)

 

Lola