Formal nights getting really casual ....

[partybarbie]

Add like Princess the Airlines are at fault. They should be stopped before they board. We fly jetBlue and until recently they never charged for the first bag. I still packed an appropriate sized carry on for a change of clothing and for medications. We were on the end of the line so buy the time we got on the plane the overhead compartments were full. They wanted to check my bag and I refused because of the medications I was carrying in it. I pointed out the large body bag that was taking up an entire bin and told the flight attendant that she needs to check that bag. Needless to say my bag made it on the plane. I think people purposely bring on large bags knowing that if the airline won't allow it on board it will be checked a boarding for free.

 

I couldn't agree more.

[sunneesmile]

Your statement is true.

 

Princess is my cruise line of choice and I do see many people dressed up for formal nights. And I would say that most stay in their formal attire throughout the evening. I see so many pretty dresses and bling in the lounges and theater.

 

When i posted here and nitpicked, my main grievance was that the MDR allows people who are not dressed even close to nice to dine on formal nights. Like the lemon yellow sweat pant dude on our last cruise. I understand that people want to partake of the special menu that is offered, but it still gripes me and has always been a source of frustration for me. Once my luggage was delayed and I had nothing but jeans and and sneakers on the first sea day-formal night. I went to the buffet and had dinner. I just did not feel right going to the MDR. That is just me.

 

Because I am going on a Carnival cruise in January I was looking at some previous threads on the Carnival board about their dress code. One person commented that before they went on their Princess cruise they were always reading threads like this one. Therefore she felt like a lot of people do not dress up for formal night. She/he was quite surprised when they went on their cruise and found the exact opposite. They said that not only were people dressed up but they stayed that way for the evening. I found this kind of funny considering I have been reading this particular thread on the Princess board. My experience, as I have stated before, is that formal night is something that most people on the cruise wish to partake in but apparently not so much by the people responding to this thread.

[JimmyVWine]

And the 60-70% doesn't mean 50-70% observing to letter of the Princess wording. It just means some form of formal attire. I have never observed 60-70% tuxes and dark suits on Caribbean cruises in the past decade.

 

Yes, this is correct, and perhaps I should have been more clear. When I said that it has been suggested that 60%-70% of the passengers are "observing Formal Night attire", I meant that they are wearing attire that goes beyond what they wear on non-Formal Nights, including blazers or ties with no jacket. There is never going to be a return to the point where a tux or dark suit is the minimum ante to get into the MDR. Those days are over. I think that the discussion has largely moved on to "make some sort of an effort" and away from "follow the rules to the letter". Indeed, I'd be perfectly fine with changing the whole thing to Semi-Formal night, and enforcing a "jacket required" rule rigidly instead of having a Formal Night that is not enforced at all.

 

Oh. And congrats to #36 finally making it to the HoF!!

Edited September 1, 2015 by JimmyVWine

[Steelers36]

 

Oh. And congrats to #36 finally making it to the HoF!!

 

You bet!!

[shredie]

 

Most importantly, I thought we looked like we'd tried to look nice. I actually don't mind if men don't adhere strictly to code. It's the guys who manifestly don't try, who show up in ratty short-sleeved open-necked shirts and Dockers for formal night, whom I find rather rude. Jeez, how much luggage space does a necktie take?

.

 

Thank goodness, it's the voice of reason (and a natty dresser.) ;)

[RocketMan275]

Not sure I understand that at all. If one is aware of the Formal Night, and makes final payment on the cruise, it doesn't matter if they agree with it or not. They know that they are boarding a ship that has two options, either of which the guest can elect: MDR with appropriate attire or alternative venue is casual attire. Agreeing or disagreeing is irrelevant.

 

Agreed or aware doesn't matter. The whole point of my earlier post was that one cannot infer from an observation that 70% of passengers dressed up to the conclusion that 70% of the passengers enjoy formal nights. How many of that 70% would have preferred to have a cruise with formal optional nights or no formal nights at all?

 

It all depends on percentages. Assume a ship with 3 MDRs. And assume that even the Anytime MDRs serve people in such a way that you could view them as having two seatings, an early and a late. That means that there are 3 MDRs with two seatings each, for a total of 6 seatings. A single MDR that is set aside for Formal Night could only handle 2 such seatings, which is 1/3 of the total of diners for the evening. So if the percentage of people who want to observe Formal dining is close to 33%, it could work. It would blow up pre-set tables and dining times, and some people who otherwise dine early would have to dine late and vice versa. And tablemates would be broken up. But it might work. But if the people willing to observe Formal Night exceeds 33%, there would be no room for them. And if the percentage is significantly less than 33%, then the MDR used for Formal Night would be underutilized and the other MDRs would be overburdened. Unless non-Formal folks were moved over to the Formal MDR at which point you have blown up the entire concept.

 

I thought I was clear that there would be no assurance you would get your preference of formal or smart casual. When the rooms are booked, they are booked. Just like today, there is no assurance you'll get your preference of early or late traditional dining or even traditional dining.

 

 

It is suggested above that 60%-70% of guests are still observing Formal Night attire irrespective of the occasional unmade bed or cut-off jean cowgirl. If that percentage is even close to accurate, there is no way that a single MDR could handle the crowd.

 

Once again. The current system is coercive. If you want to dine in the MDR, then you must dress formally. Compliance obtained by coercion tells you very little about actual preferences. How many would dress differently given a choice? Why are those who prefer formal nights afraid of giving people the freedom to choose?

 

And making the Traditional Dining Room "Formal" and Anytime "Formal Optional" forges a link between when and how people like to dine with how they like to dress when they dine. And there simply is no such link. Nor should there be.

 

If you really believe that, then you'd be adamantly opposed to dress codes as a matter of principle. The current code tells you how you must dress in order to dine in specific venues on specific dates and times. Exactly what is the dress code except the forging of a link prescribing exactly: "when and how people like to dine with how they like to dress when they dine."?

[SoCal Cruiser78]

...I would rather see them enforcing a better "smart casual" all the time for the MDR. Keep cruising special rather than a bus trip.

 

I am not against eliminating formal nights, I just want them enforced as long as they have them out of respect for those who make the effort to follow the dress code. I suspect "smart casual" every night will be the wave (no pun intended) of the future, but even that is not being enforced on Princess :(.

[shredie]

 

Once again. The current system is coercive. If you want to dine in the MDR, then you must dress formally. Compliance obtained by coercion tells you very little about actual preferences. How many would dress differently given a choice? Why are those who prefer formal nights afraid of giving people the freedom to choose?

 

True, what someone does isn't an automatic indication of his preference. However, I think you miss the point that people DO dress as they choose to dine in the MDR on formal night. It's not a matter of fear of freedom of choice, since plenty of people show up now not dressed strictly to the "letter of the law." I think what some of us here object to is the notion that Princess should do away with formal nights altogether since some of us still enjoy the experience. (I refer you to the first post in this thread.) Why should those who like the practice be coerced into giving it up because a minority want to do as they please and want official sanction for it?

[Husky61]

T I think what some of us here object to is the notion that Princess should do away with formal nights altogether since some of us still enjoy the experience. (

 

Aren't you able to dress formally every night if you wish?

[Steelers36]

True, what someone does isn't an automatic indication of his preference. However, I think you miss the point that people DO dress as they choose to dine in the MDR on formal night. It's not a matter of fear of freedom of choice, since plenty of people show up now not dressed strictly to the "letter of the law." I think what some of us here object to is the notion that Princess should do away with formal nights altogether since some of us still enjoy the experience. (I refer you to the first post in this thread.) Why should those who like the practice be coerced into giving it up because a minority want to do as they please and want official sanction for it?

 

Shredie, I totally agree with your wish and preference that you should not lose the opportunity to dress formally. I am all for preserving that option and cannot imagine Princess or any cruise line denying entry to a DR for anyone dressed formally even if the stated standard was "smart casual" or a less "restrictive" definition of "formal".

 

I cannot agree with a claim that a "minority want to do as they please", if by that you reference those of us who might wish to dress "smart casual" on all nights if we so choose. Clearly the majority are voting with their variation on formal dress with non-dark suits and using jackets only, or a tie only, lighter colors, etc, but still well-dressed. And the majority of posters here are supporting a relaxation of formal night dress code. And let's remember Princess offers passengers "recommendations" and not strict rules.

 

OTOH, if you meant a minority who would like to wear shorts and T's to the DR any night, then I would agree that is probably a minority.

Edited September 1, 2015 by steelers36

[Thrak]

Direct cut and paste from the (US) Princess FAQ:

 

Clothing Recommendations

 

You should dress for a cruise with Princess the same way you would for any stylish land-based resort.

Casual sportswear, including shorts, lightweight pants and jogging suits, is the order of the day both at sea and ashore in hotter climates.

We recommend you bring a sweater, a jacket or an all-weather coat for cool evenings, and for shore excursions, depending on your destination. Due to unpredictable weather, don't forget a hat or visor and a collapsible umbrella. Please be sure to bring proper clothing for visits to religious sites. You'll also want low-heeled, rubbersoled shoes for strolling on deck, as well as comfortable walking shoes or sandals to wear.

 

 

Princess makes it easy to know what to pack and what to wear when you’re dining onboard our spectacular ships. There are two designations for dress codes: Smart Casual and Formal.

 

Smart Casual

Guest attire should be in keeping with what they would wear to a nice restaurant at home.

 

• Skirts/dresses, slacks, and sweaters for ladies
  
• Pants and open-neck shirts for men
  

Inappropriate dinner wear such as pool or beach attire, shorts, ball caps and casual jeans (with fraying and/or holes) are not permitted in the dining rooms. Shoes must be worn.

 

Formal

When formal nights are held, please observe the dress code in the Traditional Dining and Anytime Dining venues for the enjoyment of all our guests.

 

• Evening gowns and cocktail dresses for women
  
• Tuxedos, dinner jackets or dark suits with a tie for men
  

========================================================

 

Obviously the part that is in red above isn't really in red on the web site. I just find it funny that Princess states they make it "easy to know what to pack and what to wear" but the people here on CC seem to have so much difficulty understanding it. :eek:

[Happy2cruise]

Aren't you able to dress formally every night if you wish?

Absolutely:D

[AKman2495]

Aren't you able to dress formally every night if you wish?

 

Actually, back in the 1940's there was a movie involving a wife who was on a cruise and a husband who did not cruise, but hired a low-life detective to keep an eye on her.

 

The detective showed up for dinner on the first night dressed in formal wear and the Maitre d' thought he was a waiter-since nobody dresses formally on the first night!

[AKman2495]

I agree. The dress code in the U.S. has changed so much over the years. My mother has pictures of us when we were still in a stroller wearing a dress and high heels. I asked her where the picture was taken. She told me at a park. She told me that's how she dressed to go to the supermarket. When I was in elementary school (public school) boys had to wear slacks and shoes. Sneakers could only be worn on gym days. I remember girls had to wear a dress of skirt. On winter days with snow they would wear pants under the dress and when they got to school they would remove the pants. Over the years we were allowed to wear jeans and with the women't movement in the 70's it was acceptable for girls to wear boys jeans and sneakers to school. However even with the relaxed dress code in school we still dressed appropriate for special occasions. Now in the 21st century even the work place has become more relaxed, Casual Friday has become casual period. I see young executives late 30's early 40's have given up wearing a tie and jacket or suit. They wear slacks and long sleeve shirt. One executive doesn't wear socks in the summer. With this new trend I have also given up the tie at work.

 

While I don't really care about formal nights we do dress accordingly. My fear is if they give up formal night then smart casual will start to slip as well and eventually the dress code will become a free for all.

 

I agree totally. Obviously, most people will still dress decently, even if it is casual all the time-but...there will be those who drag it down by wearing shorts, t-shirts and flip flops in the MDR...

 

Then, we'll have people defending that...and so it goes.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

Actually, back in the 1940's there was a movie involving a wife who was on a cruise and a husband who did not cruise, but hired a low-life detective to keep an eye on her.

 

The detective showed up for dinner on the first night dressed in formal wear and the Maitre d' thought he was a waiter-since nobody dresses formally on the first night!

 

OT: Ah, "Romance on the High Seas", with Doris Day and Jack Carson (1948). Great flick!

 

It was Day's first feature film, and I remember seeing an interview with her once saying she assumed it would be filmed onboard a cruise ship. She was disappointed to find out her cruise ship was a sound stage at Warner Bros. in Burbank :).

Edited September 1, 2015 by SoCal Cruiser78

[RocketMan275]

Obviously the part that is in red above isn't really in red on the web site. I just find it funny that Princess states they make it "easy to know what to pack and what to wear" but the people here on CC seem to have so much difficulty understanding it. :eek:

 

You're missing the point of this thread which is whether the dress code should be changed.

[VTX-AL]

I agree totally. Obviously, most people will still dress decently, even if it is casual all the time-but...there will be those who drag it down by wearing shorts, t-shirts and flip flops in the MDR...

 

Then, we'll have people defending that...and so it goes.

 

Precisely !!! And as has been said previously - it's a race to the bottom.

 

...VTX-Al

[AKman2495]

OT: Ah, "Romance on the High Seas", with Doris Day and Jack Carson (1948). Great flick!

 

It was Day's first feature film, and I remember seeing an interview with her once saying she assumed it would be filmed onboard a cruise ship. She was disappointed to find out her cruise ship was a sound stage at Warner Bros. in Burbank :).

 

Actually, it was not "Romance on the High Seas". Apparently, that was a musical remake of a 1930's movie, which had the same basic plot.

 

I cannot for the life of me find the name of that movie, but I will keep looking....

[shredie]

Shredie, I totally agree with your wish and preference that you should not lose the opportunity to dress formally. I am all for preserving that option and cannot imagine Princess or any cruise line denying entry to a DR for anyone dressed formally even if the stated standard was "smart casual" or a less "restrictive" definition of "formal".

 

I cannot agree with a claim that a "minority want to do as they please", if by that you reference those of us who might wish to dress "smart casual" on all nights if we so choose. Clearly the majority are voting with their variation on formal dress with non-dark suits and using jackets only, or a tie only, lighter colors, etc, but still well-dressed. And the majority of posters here are supporting a relaxation of formal night dress code. And let's remember Princess offers passengers "recommendations" and not strict rules.

 

OTOH, if you meant a minority who would like to wear shorts and T's to the DR any night, then I would agree that is probably a minority.

 

It's very kind of you to monitor my every post and provide editorial commentary, but it must be exhausting. I would suggest that the "majority of posters here" are those who have definitive feelings on the matter and do not represent the cruising public as a whole. Perhaps we need a cruise-wide vote on the matter to make it official. What all of us are doing here is providing anecdotal evidence from our own experience, myself included. Nowhere have I suggested that all dress should be tuxes and ball gowns. Again, I refer you to the first post in this thread which reads: "I personally think Princess should just do away with these formal nights..." I am objecting to that sentiment. Yes, we could wear formal every night if we chose, but there is something festive in the idea of a special night set aside for it, and I don't see why it should be eliminated just because someone doesn't like to dress well. I am now going to read and possibly comment on another thread, so perhaps you will want to follow me there.

[Thrak]

You're missing the point of this thread which is whether the dress code should be changed.

 

No. I think the "point" of this thread is that too many people whine about the dress code. No wonder other countries think Americans are crass. We can't even agree to adhere to the dress code that is specifically stated by Princess.

 

I personally think that those who want to drag things down to their level should either just grow up or cruise a different line.

[shredie]

No. I think the "point" of this thread is that too many people whine about the dress code. No wonder other countries think Americans are crass. We can't even agree to adhere to the dress code that is specifically stated by Princess.

 

I personally think that those who want to drag things down to their level should either just grow up or cruise a different line.

 

There's a solution.

[jgpdx]

no. I think the "point" of this thread is that too many people whine about the dress code. No wonder other countries think americans are crass. We can't even agree to adhere to the dress code that is specifically stated by princess.

 

I personally think that those who want to drag things down to their level should either just grow up or cruise a different line.

 

+100

[dickinson]

Aren't you able to dress formally every night if you wish?

 

When you are the only person dressed formally and every one else is not then it is not as enjoyable. As a matter of fact I would feel ridiculous being so overdressed.

 

The current system works… irregardless of the opinions of the people on this thread. They may be a majority on the thread but they are not a majority on the ship. There are places to eat for those not wishing to partake in formal night.

[PrincessMelody]

I would just say that if Princess does not enforce the dress code, then there will soon be no more dress code anywhere on the ship. This isn't just about formal night in the MDR, it's about the manner of dress all over the ships. There are increasing numbers of passengers entering the Horizon Court in bare feet and no swimsuit cover-up. There are passengers in the atrium dressed the same way, men without a shirt and women who might as well be without one. As long as Princess tolerates it, these situations will increase. The inconsistency among the ships is another issue................I witnessed a gentleman in shorts being turned away from the MDR on the Royal yet saw the shorts tolerated on the Caribbean Princess. If Princess wants to maintain a level of decency and formality on their ships, then they need to consistently take control of their own policies. Passengers will adhere if necessary, but will refuse if allowed.

 

Totally agree here...the dress code is there for a reason, and it's sad how many choose to break the rules over and over. But as long as Princess allows it, it will continue. Like on the last cruise in the Horizon Court an older man came in from the pool area in swim trunks, dripping wet...covered in grey body hair and went straight past staff to the food area...YUCK! Or the guy in the dining room on formal night in board shorts tank top and dirty flip flops...seriously? :confused:

[shredie]

When you are the only person dressed formally and every one else is not then it is not as enjoyable. As a matter of fact I would feel ridiculous being so overdressed.

 

The current system works… irregardless of the opinions of the people on this thread. They may be a majority on the thread but they are not a majority on the ship. There are places to eat for those not wishing to partake in formal night.

 

The "dress like that all the time argument" is silly. I could wear my Halloween costume every day if I wanted to, but it's for an occasion. Formal night is a party for those who choose to partake. It's an occasion just like any other festive event. Now that I think about it, I have seen a few getups on formal night that could double as Halloween costumes: the aforementioned pink bedazzled sweat pants would fit the bill. The guy dressed like a plumber (from the rear) in his too-small polo and khakis could qualify, too. Of course, the best are those dressed as a princess and her prince in their beautiful ball gowns and tuxes. Okay, maybe Husky61 is right: the Halloween plumber can dress like that every night if he wants to since it's choice to treat every day like Halloween.