If not disney, what other cruise line?

[Loonbeam]

Thread on Carnival forum, now removed due to people screeching. One person on board posted that the engineer made a statement at some point to people on board (unsure as if to shipwide announcement)

 

Another eyewitness report indicated they saw 'a lot' of smoke, but someone else said from the same part of the ship they saw nothing.

 

The official statement from Carnival said smoke only, which bears out non flammable most likely...

 

Where have you read that it was s small leak, tiny bit of a non-flammable fluid?

 

ex techie

[Tonka's Skipper]

While I have no use for that bottom feeding atty. I would also NOT put a lot of faith in what Carnival is feeding to the passengers and public.

 

The steady stream of small and large fires show a problem that needs to be addressed. Adding Carnival Pride to the list shows it can no longer be said to be confined to one class of vessels, its is across the Fleet.

 

AKK

[Ex techie]

CCL now use the Hi-Fog system on their ships.

 

http://www.marioff.com/about-marioff/news-and-press-releases/carnival-corporation-plc-chooses-marioff-for-an-extensive-hi

 

If it were a Hi-Fog system, the ambient temperature would have had to have risen significantly in order for the mercury bulb to break. Not set off by smoke.

That is in a common set up.

 

http://www.marioff.com/water-mist/why-hi-fog

 

And not to say they haven't linked the smoke detectors to it. That would be foolish as car engines to industrial engines do sometimes have small oil leaks, or water leaks. And oil burning off surfaces after a gen set has had maintenance is common.

Exactly why you do not place a smoke detector in your kitchen. A small amount of smoke would set it off time after time and cause false alarms.

 

A heat rise detector is what should be installed and I've no doubt what so ever that is what is installed in every engine room space on every ship.

 

ex techie

Edited September 19, 2015 by Ex techie

[Ex techie]

Thread on Carnival forum, now removed due to people screeching. One person on board posted that the engineer made a statement at some point to people on board (unsure as if to shipwide announcement)

 

Another eyewitness report indicated they saw 'a lot' of smoke, but someone else said from the same part of the ship they saw nothing.

 

The official statement from Carnival said smoke only, which bears out non flammable most likely...

 

Sorry incorrect on a few counts.

 

Oil, Diesel, Heavy fuel, lubricating oil as like all fuels have a flash point. The point they will ignite. It could be that oil hit part of the engine and did not ignite as the temperature wasn't high enough or there wasn't enough oil sprayed.

 

Yes that would cause smoke. Depending on how much and what, also what it was released upon and that temperature would determine how much smoke.

 

It does not mean that the liquid was non-flammable. Only that it did not ignite.

 

Relying on one persons account of a conversation or overhearing something is really not a reliable source to post it was non-flammable and only a small amount.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

While I have no use for that bottom feeding atty. I would also NOT put a lot of faith in what Carnival is feeding to the passengers and public.

 

The steady stream of small and large fires show a problem that needs to be addressed. Adding Carnival Pride to the list shows it can no longer be said to be confined to one class of vessels' date=' its is across the Fleet.

 

AKK[/quote']

 

I've been on the fence before, but I agree now Skipper.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

And to add, in 2004 the Magic had a fuel line burst spraying an engine with heated oil as it was pulling into dock in St Maartin.

 

It was never reported online from what I've found, and fortunately no one was in the engine room at the time so no one was hurt. Red parties were announced and a fire team were sent in. It was just smoke. No fire.

We bumped into the dock very hard as other engines had been shut down and we had little propulsion or thrusters, if at all.

 

It does happen. Ships flex, so pipes flex and the couplings wear. It's call fatigue.

How much maintenance you put into your car engine or train engine, plane engine or cruise ship engine dictates it's reliability and reduces the risk of a large failure or catastrophic failure.

I've no doubt Carnival operate with the SOLAS and IMO standards to also reach a Coast Guard inspection approval, but are those standards high enough?

 

ex techie

[sprint180]

Allure of the Oasis is what I would look at.

NCL and Carnival are the same according to my kids. They said they do the same things on both ships. I couldn't tell the difference either. Princess was a bit more classy. But seemed to have a lot for kids too.

Enjoy your trip what ever you decide!

:)

[Loonbeam]

I made the assumption it was a non petroleum product, perhaps coolant or some other substance, but its true we don't know. Or the issue could have been electrical. Or the suppressant could have contributed to the smoke/fog.

 

And since we only have a few one person reports and Carnival's release, that's the best info we have absent an official statement of cause so its what we go with.

 

Either way, its clear this was not a serious incident (no injury, damage, disruption to ship systems or service or itinerary). This is consistent with a small spill or leak, as opposed to a complete generator malfunction. Had the generator required extensive service, its likely the itinerary would have been adjusted because I think the next stop was their private port, which I doubt has repair facilities.

 

While there have been several significant incidents of concern on Carnival, not sure this one rises to that level.

 

Sorry incorrect on a few counts.

 

Oil, Diesel, Heavy fuel, lubricating oil as like all fuels have a flash point. The point they will ignite. It could be that oil hit part of the engine and did not ignite as the temperature wasn't high enough or there wasn't enough oil sprayed.

 

Yes that would cause smoke. Depending on how much and what, also what it was released upon and that temperature would determine how much smoke.

 

It does not mean that the liquid was non-flammable. Only that it did not ignite.

 

Relying on one persons account of a conversation or overhearing something is really not a reliable source to post it was non-flammable and only a small amount.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

I made the assumption it was a non petroleum product, perhaps coolant or some other substance, but its true we don't know. Or the issue could have been electrical. Or the suppressant could have contributed to the smoke/fog.

 

And since we only have a few one person reports and Carnival's release, that's the best info we have absent an official statement of cause so its what we go with.

 

Either way, its clear this was not a serious incident (no injury, damage, disruption to ship systems or service or itinerary). This is consistent with a small spill or leak, as opposed to a complete generator malfunction. Had the generator required extensive service, its likely the itinerary would have been adjusted because I think the next stop was their private port, which I doubt has repair facilities.

 

While there have been several significant incidents of concern on Carnival, not sure this one rises to that level.

 

It was serious enough to set of the automated fire suppression system though? That and have the fire fighters sent to get suited up and investigate?

 

What about my previous post?

 

CCL now use the Hi-Fog system on their ships.

 

http://www.marioff.com/about-marioff/news-and-press-releases/carnival-corporation-plc-chooses-marioff-for-an-extensive-hi

 

If it were a Hi-Fog system, the ambient temperature would have had to have risen significantly in order for the mercury bulb to break. Not set off by smoke.

That is in a common set up.

 

http://www.marioff.com/water-mist/why-hi-fog

 

And not to say they haven't linked the smoke detectors to it. That would be foolish as car engines to industrial engines do sometimes have small oil leaks, or water leaks. And oil burning off surfaces after a gen set has had maintenance is common.

Exactly why you do not place a smoke detector in your kitchen. A small amount of smoke would set it off time after time and cause false alarms.

 

A heat rise detector is what should be installed and I've no doubt what so ever that is what is installed in every engine room space on every ship.

 

ex techie

 

ex techie

Edited September 19, 2015 by Ex techie

[Loonbeam]

From my understanding, since the Splendor fire, they have everything set to the most pessimistic they can where possible and their attitude is treat everything like a full blown emergency until determined otherwise. I don't know what kind of sensors they use or how many or what will set them off.

 

Could be something a simple as it happening right under a sensor.

 

I'm not saying that there weren't moments of concern, just that when you look at the impact, the net effect wasn't serious. I'm GLAD they treated it like a major situation until they determined it wasn't.

 

It sounds like it could be similar to the incident on the Magic, in which case the term non-flammable simply could mean, it didn't burn. Unless Carnival or the coast guard releases a report we probably won't know for sure, but everything is consistent with a minor leak releasing lots of smoke and requiring some cleanup.

 

It was serious enough to set of the automated fire suppression system though? That and have the fire fighters sent to get suited up and investigate?

 

What about my previous post?

 

 

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

From my understanding, since the Splendor fire, they have everything set to the most pessimistic they can where possible and their attitude is treat everything like a full blown emergency until determined otherwise. I don't know what kind of sensors they use or how many or what will set them off.

 

Could be something a simple as it happening right under a sensor.

 

I'm not saying that there weren't moments of concern, just that when you look at the impact, the net effect wasn't serious. I'm GLAD they treated it like a major situation until they determined it wasn't.

 

It sounds like it could be similar to the incident on the Magic, in which case the term non-flammable simply could mean, it didn't burn. Unless Carnival or the coast guard releases a report we probably won't know for sure, but everything is consistent with a minor leak releasing lots of smoke and requiring some cleanup.

 

Whilst I agree that they should be extra vigilant given the amount of incidents involving engine room fires, the decision to set all sensors to "hyper sensitive" is a poor one and very bad mistake IMO.

Sensors should be set to react within normal operating parameters and not trigger false alarms.

That only causes complacency when alarms are repeated triggered without good and proper reason and causes mistrust in the system.

The boy who cried wolf comes to mind.

 

Regarding the use of the words non flammable, sorry no.

A piece of wood or paper is flammable. Just because it isn't on fire does not make it nonflammable. A rock or piece of steel is nonflammable. Certain clothing materials are nonflammable (to certain temperatures). Water is nonflammable.

 

Words to describe nonflammable:

Fire-resistant

Noncandescent

Noncombustible

 

Petroleum products and engineering lubricants derived from petroleum along with hydraulic fluids are by their very nature, flammable or combustible.

 

ex techie

[Loonbeam]

Agreed and hoping it was a transcription issue ('didn't catch fire' to 'non-flammable'.)

 

The sensor thing is security theater, much like many TSA policies or some of the fun stuff in Philadelphia related to the papal visit. Companies and people are so afraid of suits and bad PR that they get hypersensitive to being able to claim 'well we did everything possible to prevent X' in the hopes that will absolve them of blame. That does end up creating a lot of cry wolf scenarios, which in the long run is a bad thing, but they don't see that right now.

 

Whilst I agree that they should be extra vigilant given the amount of incidents involving engine room fires, the decision to set all sensors to "hyper sensitive" is a poor one and very bad mistake IMO.

Sensors should be set to react within normal operating parameters and not trigger false alarms.

That only causes complacency when alarms are repeated triggered without good and proper reason and causes mistrust in the system.

The boy who cried wolf comes to mind.

 

Regarding the use of the words non flammable, sorry no.

A piece of wood or paper is flammable. Just because it isn't on fire does not make it nonflammable. A rock or piece of steel is nonflammable. Certain clothing materials are nonflammable (to certain temperatures). Water is nonflammable.

 

Words to describe nonflammable:

Fire-resistant

Noncandescent

Noncombustible

 

Petroleum products and engineering lubricants derived from petroleum along with hydraulic fluids are by their very nature, flammable or combustible.

 

ex techie

[amscene1]

Please don't listen to people on hear that say "try carnival" if you're happy so far with the overall experience of what Disney cruise has to offer then I would recommend from personal experience trying NCL or celebrity.

 

I'd say if your age range is young to 40 try Ncl for an older crowd (50-60 avg.) then try celebrity. Princess may be an option for you as well but I can't make that decision as I have not tried princess yet.

[moki'smommy]

I know that food is subjective, but I found the food on Celebrity to be better than on DCL. In most other areas, I prefer DCL

 

Entertainment--main stage productions were much better on DCL. Variety acts, "around the ship" things were better on Celebrity. Cabin--DCL wins hands down. Bigger, nicer. Spa--both run by same company, but DCL bigger, nicer. Many things are the same but with different names. Pools--Celebrity had an enclosed adult pool making it great for Alaska. There was a sign up clearly stating 2 hours a day when this area was open to kids (sign said because it was an Alaskan cruise). Otherwise, kids strictly not allowed. Enforced, but then not a lot of kids on the ship. Shopping--DCL.

[Host Mick]

Cruise Critic has a sweet Find a Cruise feature on the home page. Search by departure port, port of call, by ship or by many other qualifiers (Not the one in the box, click the tab on the top for the better finder)

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/

[cruise27128]

Thank you all for all the advice. It has been really helpful! Turns out my aunt is thinking about going on a Princess cruise the same week we were looking at going, so I think we are going to try out Princess. :)

[Biz64]

We have sailed Disney, Carnival, Royal, and are sailing the new Escape from NCL in February. My kids are younger than yours, ages 9, 7, and 5. They loved Disney, but I think they may have liked the Allure of The Seas even more…especially my older son. I would think your older kids would love the Oasis class on Royal. There is just so much to see and do on those ships. I'm exited to try NCL, but I have a feeling we will be sailing the Oasis class again soon.

[LuCruise]

Royal Caribbean. We were looking at Disney or Royal's Allure (Oasis class) and we decided on Allure based on the price comparison. The Oasis class, and even other classes would be great for them. They have FlowRiders, ZipLines (Oasis), mini golf, rock wall, teen club, basketball, etc. Entertainment looks great too. Fun for the whole family.

Edited September 24, 2015 by LuCruise

[Winston Wolf]

With your kids ages, I'd look at the NCL's Breakaway(+) class (Breakaway, Getaway, Escape), the RCI Oasis, Quantum, or Freedom Classes (Oasis, Allure, Harmony, Anthem, Freedom, Independence, Liberty), or one of the newer Carnival ships (Vista, Breeze). Lots to do on all those ships for families and teens.

 

And yes, your wallet will have a lot more left in it vs. a DCL cruise.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Winston Wolf

[Winston Wolf]

Thank you all for all the advice. It has been really helpful! Turns out my aunt is thinking about going on a Princess cruise the same week we were looking at going, so I think we are going to try out Princess. :)

 

I hear nice things about Princess, but I also hear that they don't cater to families as well as NCL, RCI, Carnival, and certainly not as much as Disney.

[Loonbeam]

Correct. I love Princess for food and service, but quite honestly their entertainment is sub par and they have very few kid-focus amenities (the kids clubs are just a room for example but the counselors supposedly do excellent with what they have). No water slides, rock walls, etc...

 

I hear nice things about Princess, but I also hear that they don't cater to families as well as NCL, RCI, Carnival, and certainly not as much as Disney.

[Cruzaholic41]

Is there another line that is more reasonable than Disney is this year, has west coast sailings (just because that would be easier for us, but not mandatory), and still has good service & (hopefully) better food?

 

I highly suggest getting off the west coast and cruising a RCI Oasis Class or Quantum Class ship. They have the best of the best with regard to cruise ship entertainment and main shows. I am also a parent of teens and they think the RCI teen programs and activities are much better than Disney. Plus the adult areas on these ships are huge, 2 story Solariums. I think you would be impressed.

[holula]

Correct. I love Princess for food and service, but quite honestly their entertainment is sub par and they have very few kid-focus amenities (the kids clubs are just a room for example but the counselors supposedly do excellent with what they have). No water slides, rock walls, etc...

 

 

I agree about their entertainment. We loved the adult comedy show but other than that we felt meh about it. It's definitely geared towards an older crowd. I don't know about their kids shows. Princess does have great service and I loved their Movies Under the Stars. Their food was easily the best food on a ship I have tried! And their pizza.... Yum.

 

I also agree with the people who recommended the larger NCL and Royal ships. NCL Epic and Freedom and Oasis of the Seas were all fantastic ships with tons to do. Even though my husband is platinum on Disney, we have one NCL and two Royal cruises booked. Freedom class on Royal also seem to have great prices - we booked an eight night for less than $1600 for 2017.

[LuCruise]

I hear nice things about Princess, but I also hear that they don't cater to families as well as NCL, RCI, Carnival, and certainly not as much as Disney.

 

It's funny as my cruise love started with "Princess" as in The Love Boat. I watched that show all the time that when I graduated university, my dad took me on a cruise (but on Royal). But I would say that that is one I would dismiss for kids...as it does seem like a cruise for a bit of an older generation.

[big al]

My family and I have always taken Disney cruises. But, our standard yearly cruise has gone up by over $4000 :eek: this year.

 

Obviously, I need to look at a different cruise line because the Disney prices are getting crazy, but never having gone on any of the other lines, I'm not sure what to go for. I would love some advice.

 

My boys will be 13 & 15 on this next cruise. They mostly just want to hang with kids their own age on the sports deck, so I think most lines will cover that as long as the line attracts families.

 

My husband and I have demanding jobs, so we just want quiet and to relax. On Disney, we spend a fair amount of time at the spa and in the adults only area. We are not big drinkers/party people, don't have an interest in a casino, and are perfectly happy seeing a movie or a show & then just going to bed, LOL. Boring, I know, but we both own our own businesses so we are used to working a lot. Being able to read a book on a lounger is heavenly all by itself. :D

 

Is there another line that is more reasonable than Disney is this year, has west coast sailings (just because that would be easier for us, but not mandatory), and still has good service & (hopefully) better food?

 

I would greatly appreciate any and all helpful advice from you all who have experienced several cruise lines. Thanks so much!

 

Cruise agent here, and I've cruised on all major lines but Costa & MSC...With teenage boys, IMO, you are limited to RCI, NCL & Carnival..the other 3 major lines- Celebrity, Princess & HAL, cater & are really made for the older, more mature passenger...MSC, although I have never cruised on, I have visited & toured the Divina in Miami, and she is stunning, with lots of things for kids to do..thing is, most of the better & bigger ships leave from South Florida, with a few exceptions like the RCI Liberty Of The Seas ( GREAT choice for teens!!) in Galveston, TX, and the RCI Freedom of The Seas in Port Canaveral,FL (till fall 2016, then moves to Port Everglades), and maybe one of the newer Carnival ships like the Magic, out of Galveston, also...IMO, you should consider flying to Fort Lauderdale & cruising on the Oasis or Allure, or Independence Of The Seas, all TOP choices for families..also, in Miami, the NCL Getaway & new Escape has a TON of entertainment- in fact, 6 close friends went on there in June & July, and said the Getaway was the best cruise they ever took, due to all the amazing dining choices & shows on board, and all had been on 10+ cruises on various lines..

 

We love Disney, but you are right, soooo $$$..the cost of flying your family to Florida or Texas would probably in the end, be equal to the extra $$ you spend on Disney cruise, and you would get to try other cruise lines...BTW, when trying other cruise lines ( which I encourage to see what's out there) , always try the bigger & newer ships, if possible..I had a friend try RCI & went on the Grandeur Of The Seas, a small, old, 74,000 ton ship- they were not impressed by RCI, and I told them come with me on a tour of the Allure Of The Seas, the largest cruise ship in the world at 225,000 tons, with 16 bars & 25 dining options, 10 pools & 16 hot tubs..you should've seen the look on their face when they saw the AMAZING Royal Promenade, or the stunning Central Park, Flowrider ( teen boys LOVE that!), Zipline ( also love that!), Rock climbing wall, mini golf, ice skating shows ( wonderful), full court basketball, Teens club, and great video games room, and more...when they got off the ship, they booked a cruise with IMMEDIATELY, and loved it after they came back..they flew in from Baltimore..sometimes you just have to do a few things extra to get a few things extra...

 

Big Al