Any REAL Formal Nights Anywhere???

[Warm Breezes]

I don't think that the elimination of formal nights has anything to do with the argument that a few people could not follow directions or dine somewhere else. I think eliminating formal nights was the byproduct of the individual cruise lines constant cost cutting over the past 8+ years.

 

Let's face it, the product and service that was recently offered on these lines for formal night was anything but formal. The obligatory surf and turf on HAL, for instance, was sad. More often than not a steak was served that should have been used in a beef stir fry and swapping out a lobster tail for small shrimp did nothing to impress nor add to the "formal" festivities.

 

I travelled on X last year and dined in Blu. Blu was one of the highlights of the cruise. While we really enjoyed the food and service that we received, I would not classify any night's offering as anything close to formal.

 

Passengers stopped participating in formal nights when cruise lines stopped offering formal events. Simply calling an evening formal doesn't make it formal. Why participate in the pretension?

 

I kind of think of it as the other way around. Many people (the majority I believe) in this day and age prefer a more casual dining experience. Not only is it more in their comfort zone, but it saves them in purchasing little used outfits and the extra in baggage to bring them along. This is happening on land as well as at sea. The cruise lines are seeing this trend and listening to the masses who were asking for a more casual atmosphere and adjusting their dress codes accordingly. I think some cruise lines maybe taking it a step further and not only down grading the dress code but the menu's on those once formal nights as well.

 

As stated before, we personally prefer the more casual dress code with the option to dress up more IF we want to (ie if I wanted a formal picture done of the whole family). I am really liking this idea of a smaller formal pay restaurant set aside daily for those who want that formal atmosphere and higher quality dining food and service experience in a more intimate environment. Many of us cruisers don't need or want that these days but those who feel the need for it can get it if they choose to. I always think options are great.

[dsrdsrdsr]

P&O sail the Caribbean and have approx. two formal nights per week. Dress optional in the buffet and a few bars, but compulsory in the main dining rooms and many of the bars. Though formal includes dark suits as well as dinner jackets. (Mind you, the difference between a dinner jacket and a black suit jacket is too trivial to bother most of us. Many of the apparently formally dressed gentlemen are wearing ordinary shirts and jackets with a bow tie.)

[luvbluseas]

Why not just dine in formal attire and like it? Or does the attire of the unwashed masses and commoners have that much of an influence on the ability of others to enjoy their vacation?

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

On a previous cruise a gentleman (?) sat next to me (I was wearing a formal gown & my DH his tuxedo) he was wearing torn, dirty, jeans, dirty boots (mud caked on them), a very old and worn T-shirt and a old, worn black leather jacket. That is not my idea of proper dress in any venue for dinner. There were a lot of people dressed very casual, no ties, jeans, etc.

 

I have talked to many couples that cruise and out of those people it was about 95% of the men that refused to "dress" for formal nights. Equally about 95% of the women that wanted to "dress" for dinner. When I asked the men if they thought that they could "dress" as a gift to their wives or girl friends considering all that they do for them. the majority of them said "well, if she asked me to I would." So my conclusion is that the majority of the wives would most likely enjoy dressing up and enjoy Formal Nights but are too 'woozy' to even ask. :confused:

[MicCanberra]

I have seen more Tuxedos on Celebrity (back when they had the formal nights) than on our Cunard cruise. I was always happy to dress in my Tux but now that Formal is Evening chic on X, I will not be taking the tux and my luggage has lost some of the bulk which makes it so much easier to pack for flights.:D

[Karysa]

On a previous cruise a gentleman (?) sat next to me (I was wearing a formal gown & my DH his tuxedo) he was wearing torn, dirty, jeans, dirty boots (mud caked on them), a very old and worn T-shirt and a old, worn black leather jacket. That is not my idea of proper dress in any venue for dinner. There were a lot of people dressed very casual, no ties, jeans, etc.

 

I have talked to many couples that cruise and out of those people it was about 95% of the men that refused to "dress" for formal nights. Equally about 95% of the women that wanted to "dress" for dinner. When I asked the men if they thought that they could "dress" as a gift to their wives or girl friends considering all that they do for them. the majority of them said "well, if she asked me to I would." So my conclusion is that the majority of the wives would most likely enjoy dressing up and enjoy Formal Nights but are too 'woozy' to even ask. :confused:

 

You seemed so proper in your OP, but speaking to many gentlemen on a cruise and asking if they thought that they could "dress" for dinner seems anything but proper to me. Perhaps they just said what they thought that you wanted to hear so that you would go away.

 

Another thought. Perhaps the woman didn't want to be blamed for not dressing up so they threw their husbands under the "boat" because they never thought that you would then take their answers to their husbands.

 

I find what you did offensive. I guess real class comes in many styles of dress.

[BlueRiband]

On a previous cruise a gentleman (?) sat next to me (I was wearing a formal gown & my DH his tuxedo) he was wearing torn, dirty, jeans, dirty boots (mud caked on them), a very old and worn T-shirt and a old, worn black leather jacket. That is not my idea of proper dress in any venue for dinner. There were a lot of people dressed very casual, no ties, jeans, etc...

 

Exactly why the argument, "Dress as formally as you please. Why care how other people dress?" doesn't quite make it. It's not possible to have a formal environment when others choose to be sloppy. It downgrades the entire table when one party is allowed to show up and be served in casual clothes.

[calliopecruiser]

Exactly why the argument, "Dress as formally as you please. Why care how other people dress?" doesn't quite make it. It's not possible to have a formal environment when others choose to be sloppy. It downgrades the entire table when one party is allowed to show up and be served in casual clothes.

 

But the MDR is never and will never be a formal environment, regardless of how people dress. It's a banquet hall, and while you can put a dress on a dog, it's still a dog (a lovable and enjoyable dog, but still a dog). There's no way to have a formal environment with that level of noise and crowding.....even if everyone were dressed formally.

 

If you enjoy the way you and your companions look in formal clothes, then wear them and don't worry about what anyone else is wearing. If you want a formal environment and experience, don't expect it in the MDR, regardless of what people are wearing. It's one of the reasons I don't enjoy dressing up for the MDR -- there's nothing "fancy" - let alone formal - about sitting in that room and dining on schedule (I mean the schedule waitstaff must keep to turn over the table for the next diners). The food may be great (and my last 2 cruises had some great food), but it wasn't a great experience, regardless of whether I wore khakis or an evening dress.

 

Expecting others to dress as you want just to create the experience you want it wrong-headed. Expecting them to adhere to a given dress code, though, makes sense.......but it's because they should dress as required by their hosts, not because they should dress to suit what you want.

[RiotAct]

Around and around we go.....

[calliopecruiser]

I have talked to many couples that cruise and out of those people it was about 95% of the men that refused to "dress" for formal nights. Equally about 95% of the women that wanted to "dress" for dinner. When I asked the men if they thought that they could "dress" as a gift to their wives or girl friends considering all that they do for them. the majority of them said "well, if she asked me to I would." So my conclusion is that the majority of the wives would most likely enjoy dressing up and enjoy Formal Nights but are too 'woozy' to even ask. :confused:

 

I have a different conclusion - many (most?) women have grown up being almost constantly concerned with their appearance at all times, and have come to rely heavily on their appearance to others as a measure of their attractiveness and worth. And men, traditionally being more visually motivated and stimulated, have more desire to see their wife/date/girlfriend/desired girlfriend dressed up than women have to see their husband/boyfriend/date/desired boyfriend dressed up......Women are not typically as motivated or stimulated by appearance as by other factors. (Think of how often you see couples of all ages where the woman is dressed up far more than the man is). I think that's why women don't ask as often, and why men would do it if asked, but don't care about it if not.

 

 

I also think your questioning of other people's clothing choices was rude, by the way.

[marco]

The most formal I've seen in the past few years is a TA on "Queen Mary".

[Karysa]

The most formal I've seen in the past few years is a TA on "Queen Mary".

 

Do you think finding a Cruiseline with true formal nights is really the agenda of the OP?

 

I do not believe this to be the case. She has posted one post besides her original post and it was not to Thank those that suggested cruise lines that have true formal nights and to get more information on those lines.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Karysa

[BlueRiband]

But the MDR is never and will never be a formal environment, regardless of how people dress... There's no way to have a formal environment with that level of noise and crowding.....even if everyone were dressed formally...

 

Depends on the ship. Britannia on QM2 is a very formal restaurant.

 

..If you enjoy the way you and your companions look in formal clothes, then wear them and don't worry about what anyone else is wearing...

 

That contradicts my argument. And I can just hear the casual dressers "worrying" about the "snobs" who are dressed up. (Because those who dress up necessarily make the slobs look worse.)

 

...Expecting others to dress as you want just to create the experience you want it wrong-headed. Expecting them to adhere to a given dress code, though, makes sense.......but it's because they should dress as required by their hosts, not because they should dress to suit what you want.

 

But isn't that the point? The evening is specifically billed as formal by the ship and you consider it "wrong-headed" if I expect others to follow that? The reverse would be true if it was an informal evening and I showed up in a ball gown. If I did that I would be deliberately ignoring that evening's dress code set by the ship.

Edited January 21, 2016 by BlueRiband

[Warm Breezes]

On a previous cruise a gentleman (?) sat next to me (I was wearing a formal gown & my DH his tuxedo) he was wearing torn, dirty, jeans, dirty boots (mud caked on them), a very old and worn T-shirt and a old, worn black leather jacket. That is not my idea of proper dress in any venue for dinner. There were a lot of people dressed very casual, no ties, jeans, etc.

 

I have talked to many couples that cruise and out of those people it was about 95% of the men that refused to "dress" for formal nights. Equally about 95% of the women that wanted to "dress" for dinner. When I asked the men if they thought that they could "dress" as a gift to their wives or girl friends considering all that they do for them. the majority of them said "well, if she asked me to I would." So my conclusion is that the majority of the wives would most likely enjoy dressing up and enjoy Formal Nights but are too 'woozy' to even ask. :confused:

 

I'm not to 'woozy' ask. I just know that dressing up like that takes DH way out of his comfort zone....and he does a lot for me too. It goes both ways. We prefer lines with a more casual dress code so he can be comfortable in dress pants and a dress shirt. I can dress up as much as I want but I don't need him to give me a "gift" by going out of his comfort zone to dress up more than he does. I prefer a nice relaxing meal enjoyed by both of us.

[MicCanberra]

People will always do as they wish and push boundaries (polices) and then justify why they did it. They say things like :

'they are only guidelines'; or

'no one else is doing it'; or

'It is my holiday' or

'it was never really formal anyway'.

 

The truth is, that they do not want to dress up for whatever reason, and nothing we say here will change that. The only way it will change is if the cruise line strictly enforces their policy in all cases and we all know that is not going to happen.

[Karysa]

People will always do as they wish and push boundaries (polices) and then justify why they did it. They say things like :

'they are only guidelines'; or

'no one else is doing it'; or

'It is my holiday' or

'it was never really formal anyway'.

 

The truth is, that they do not want to dress up for whatever reason, and nothing we say here will change that. The only way it will change is if the cruise line strictly enforces their policy in all cases and we all know that is not going to happen.

 

Celebrity Cruise line is a business. They made a business decision. They have the right to do that. Taking your money and spending it elsewhere is your choice and how you can let them know that you don't agree with their new policy. They must think that the cruisers they will gain by having this new policy will generate more revenue for the cruise line.

 

Personally by making one small pay per use dining room very formal at least for a 6 mth trial they would not have looked like they were turning their backs on loyal customers that still wanted formal nights in a dining venue.

[whataboutport]

Imagine if the cruiselines turned people away at the MDR for not dressing formal enough. Then all the people inside the MDR will be all dressed very nicely for each other. Then there will still be people to complain about manners or something else. Just bc someone is dressed up does not automatically make them great company, have great manners, interesting dinner conversation, etc. There will always be something someone else will complain about.

 

Just bc there are 4 forks, 3 spoons, 2 knives, two glasses, and a stack of plates or whatever doesn't mean it's "formal". If you like to dress up, then do it. If you don't want to then don't. I would think people would want to book a line that is similar to their style. You don't like to dress up go on NCL. I felt X was very dressy the two times I've been on. We like to dress up, but is it formal? no not in the least. Our everyday lives don't allow us to dress up often. But I also can see how if someone has to wear a suit and tie everyday for work how they would not want to dress up on their vacation. So don't then. It's not like the food in the MDR is even that good that you have to feel like you are missing out.

Edited January 21, 2016 by whataboutport

[Velvetwater]

If you want true formal you have 3 choices:

 

1. Luxury formal lines with a heft price tag or Cunard

2. European cruising is often more formal (esp off season when kids are in school)

3. Longer/world cruises where theres a lot of money flying around

 

Even though I am one of the few that does a full gown on formal nights (esp on Carnival) I don't let what others do dictate my cruise and I certainly wouldn't book a cruise based on formal nights. Only reason I like dressing up is I am quite tomboyish the rest of the year.

 

Each to their own.

[pseudoware]

Everyone used to wear suits & dresses to the movies & sporting events. You don't hear people crying about those "good old days."

 

I'm sure over time, the same will be the case for much of cruising, and people can enjoy their meal in the MDR without any fashion police or Mr & Mrs Fuddy Duddy looking down their noses at their table mates for not wearing a Kiton tux, diamond cufflinks, a monogramed dress shirt, and rockin' a monocle.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[MicCanberra]

Celebrity Cruise line is a business. They made a business decision. They have the right to do that. Taking your money and spending it elsewhere is your choice and how you can let them know that you don't agree with their new policy. They must think that the cruisers they will gain by having this new policy will generate more revenue for the cruise line.

 

Personally by making one small pay per use dining room very formal at least for a 6 mth trial they would not have looked like they were turning their backs on loyal customers that still wanted formal nights in a dining venue.

 

I agree that X can do what it likes and they may lose some customers but they will gain others. I liked the formal nights, and am disappointed they have gone but really do not mind the change to Evening Chic either. It certainly makes packing easier. In regards to whether this is the thin edge of the wedge, time will tell, I certainly hope they do not. drop standards elsewhere.:D

[navybankerteacher]

I agree that X can do what it likes and they may lose some customers but they will gain others. I liked the formal nights, and am disappointed they have gone but really do not mind the change to Evening Chic either. It certainly makes packing easier. In regards to whether this is the thin edge of the wedge, time will tell, I certainly hope they do not. drop standards elsewhere.:D

 

It may have nothing to do with evolving dress codes - but I have certainly seen a lowering of standards across the board - involving many aspects on all lines experienced.

[missbozz]

P and o has formal

[Karysa]

It may have nothing to do with evolving dress codes - but I have certainly seen a lowering of standards across the board - involving many aspects on all lines experienced.

 

Fares are cheaper as well since my first cruise in 2004. So you really can not expect the service and offerings to be anything but downgraded really.

[MicCanberra]

Some standards have dropped and some have been totally removed but cruising is still a wonderful indulgent and cost effective way to travel/holiday.:D

[Magnum60]

Putting aside 'the grand old days' when ocean liners hadn't evolved into cruise ships dress codes were hardly ever talked about. All passengers made an attempt to always look and dress to a long gone minimum standard. Times have changed and we see fewer and fewer men and women dressing formally. It seems like a huge effort for men these days to wear slacks and sports jacket when eating aboard a cruise ship or in a nice restaurants while on vacation.

Cunard got it right some time ago and I believe still does (I haven't sailed with Cunard in about 4 years). If you booked the nicest accommodations offered by Cunard you became a 'Grill' passenger. As a Grill passenger you ate dinner in the Princess or Queens Grills based on your accommodation level. The Grills and their lounges were off limits to non Grill passengers. Male Grill passengers were required to dress in slacks and jacket as a minimum for dinner and suit and tie or Tux on formal evenings. Women are generally not big fans of being out dressed by their husbands so they always looked outstanding. Grill passengers also had their own lounges for pre or post dinner cocktails and no one ever needed to mention dinner dress codes. They didn't have to. Traveling as a Grill passenger is still a long way away from the old liner days but it's nice to know that you can still experience grand travel pretty close to how it used to be in 'the good old days'. Hats off to Cunard. As an aside, the Grill accommodations offered by Cunard sell very well.

[Happycruiserhw]

On a previous cruise a gentleman (?) sat next to me (I was wearing a formal gown & my DH his tuxedo) he was wearing torn, dirty, jeans, dirty boots (mud caked on them), a very old and worn T-shirt and a old, worn black leather jacket. That is not my idea of proper dress in any venue for dinner. There were a lot of people dressed very casual, no ties, jeans, etc.

 

I have talked to many couples that cruise and out of those people it was about 95% of the men that refused to "dress" for formal nights. Equally about 95% of the women that wanted to "dress" for dinner. When I asked the men if they thought that they could "dress" as a gift to their wives or girl friends considering all that they do for them. the majority of them said "well, if she asked me to I would." So my conclusion is that the majority of the wives would most likely enjoy dressing up and enjoy Formal Nights but are too 'woozy' to even ask. :confused:

 

I know of at least 1 cruise line, Seabourn, that has a "true formal" evening out of 7 days. It is quite luxurious, (all suite) rooms, small ships, with butler service. I have cruised Seabourn. It has a very formal evening(tuxedo for men, evening gown for women). If you wish to dine in their main restaurant on that evening, you must dress appropriately. They also have alternative dining if you don't wish to dress up that evening - so it is nice option. Another line (I think) might be Cunard. I've never cruised on that line, but have heard it can be formal.

 

I know Holland America has a formal dining option of at least 1 day of 7 day cruise, but it is voluntary for the most part, as is Celebrity. Dining gowns and tuxedos are encouraged, but not absolutely required. (FYI)

Edited January 23, 2016 by Happycruiserhw
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