Considering Cancelling Cruise - Zika Virus

[CRUISEFAN0001]

We were walking down the street in San Juan on our cruise last summer--middle of the day, in the city, not a swampy area--when my DH felt a bite on his leg. When we arrived home four days later, his entire leg was infected and we went directly to the ER from the pier.

 

I think my DH is one in a million, but I doubt those were the odds against him being bitten by something and having the reaction he did.

 

I think the OP and PPs are exercising good judgment it taking every precaution to avoid being bitten by a mosquito carrying the Zika virus. The results to the child if his DM of contracted this disease are so horrendous that it would seem foolhardy to take such a chance.

Sorry for that bad luck.

 

But given the millions of tourists in just that one city alone...the odds are still quite minuscule. Deet spray would help of course.

 

No one blames precautions...but cancelling a cruise for just the tiny odds of a problem seems extreme.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

The odds are definitely NOT the same. This is a serious virus for newborn babies. In Brazil, in 2014 147 babies were born with mircocephaly. In 2015, 3,700 babies were born with mircocephaly due to the mothers' having contracted zika. That is a dramatic 96% increase. Whereas the chance of getting struck by lightning is 1 in 960,000.

 

The point is that this is not a risk for yourself, it is a risk for your child. I would follow the CDC orders and not go. There will be plenty more opportunities for vacations in the future.

I get all that...and can understand it...

 

But then again...pregnant women traveling abroad and cruising seems risky without any added issues around pesky mosquitoes. When you see some strollers on cruise ships in general...one might just wonder about risks to young children as well. Not sure where one draws the line on those things.

[tinkertwo]

my two cents for what its worth.

i haven't read all the posts but has anyone mentioned that you can get the zika virus without being pregnant?

 

Who is at risk of being infected?

Anyone who is living in or traveling to an area where Zika virus is found who has not already been infected with Zika virus is at risk for infection, including pregnant women.

 

Is there a vaccine to prevent or medicine to treat Zika?

 

No. There is no vaccine to prevent infection or medicine to treat Zika

so, to those who say why worry, they don't even know if they are pregnant, this is something that could affect a future pregnancy.

 

also, i think the premise that its a one in a million shot is wrong.

Quote- But when the virus became widespread in Brazil in 2015, with an estimated 500,000 to 1.5 million residents contracting Zika, health officials noticed that it coincided with a sharp increase in microcephaly, a condition in which a fetus' brain doesn't grow to full size and the baby is born with an abnormally small head.

 

that's only Brazil. the numbers get a lot higher when you factor in the rest of the countries.

 

everyone needs to do what they feel is best but i would forgo any loss of money if it meant my children would be safe, even if it was a 'one in a million' shot. i would never be able to forgive myself if a known virus that i was warned against hurt my child.

 

again, to each their own.

Edited January 25, 2016 by tinkertwo

[markeb]

I've bit my tongue for hours on this one, but...

 

"Risk" is composed of two independent variable: Probability of the event, and consequences of the event. Risk is usually expressed in terms of an unmitigated risk and a final risk with mitigation.

 

In this case, probability is probably moderate. We have no idea of the true prevalence of Zika virus in the mosquito population, but the Aedes mosquitoes that spread Zika in populated areas are aggressive daytime biters and are also extremely anthropophilic; they like people and their dwellings. So far, we only have an association of Zika with microcephaly, so we can't make any conclusions as to the real probability of microcephaly resulting from a single exposure. So that adds up to a moderate probability in my book.

 

The consequences of an uncontrolled event appear catastrophic. We're forced to make assumptions as there simply is no scientific data, but, in Brazil, there is a definite association of Zika infection with microcephaly, which is a pretty catastrophic occurrence. It does appear that infected individuals rapidly clear the virus, and become immune, so the CDC at least sees little risk to those who become pregnant weeks or months after infection.

 

So, the unmitigated "risk", probability X consequence, is high, driven by the consequences of a moderately likely event. You can reduce this to at least moderate/medium by using mosquito repellant religiously. The close association between Aedes mosquitos and people means that's probably your only good strategy. Staying on the ship in port will probably reduce risk further.

 

If we were a few years into this phenomena, and actually knew more, we could much more effectively assess the real risk. So, I don't think the OP is overreacting. They're trying to make a very difficult decision in the face of very incomplete, and probably inaccurate, information. To which I wish them the best of luck and hope they receive the best medical advice, from an actual person instead of an internet forum, available to them.

[moopetguy]

She could get pregnant three months from now and still have the virus in her system.

 

Not according to the CDC Q&A:

http://www.cdc.gov/zika/pregnancy/question-answers.html

 

"Zika virus infection does not pose a risk of birth defects for future pregnancies. Zika virus usually remains in the blood of an infected person for only a few days to a week. The virus will not cause infections in a baby that is conceived after the virus is cleared from the blood."

 

That said, I would share the OP's concerns. The risk (probability) of infection is small once one takes all possible precautions to mitigate while still travelling, but the consequences of an infection (however unlikely) can be life-long and severe. We can talk about other things such as lightning strikes and car accidents being equally likely, but avoiding those typically means having to become a permanent shut-in :)

[LisaNorthseadreamer]

The thing that some of you continously seem to miss though is that she can't take the precautions; DEET harms babies, and is the only bugspray strong enough. It is also not a matter of 'you're either pregnant or you are not when you leave'. People get prgegnant in between fertility treatments all the time, and it's not always inmedeatlely detected. Third, added stress decreases fertility and can harm the development of the fetus. These are all scientific facts, not old wives tales. I don't understand why people who obviously have no idea how fertility treatment & pregnancy works keep chipping in with their 'oh well, just a one in a million chance'. That is a false statement and you are invalidating her legitimate concerns. By saying that, it's almost as if you are labeling her as 'another hysteric overworried woman', and she's not. She's making an intelligent, reasoned choice based on the facts, while all you do is reason from some gut-feeling that 'it probably won't happen'.

 

As far as the 2018 question goes: I do not know their reasoning behind this, or what will be different. This is what was reported on the news & in the travel advisory for my country. I feel really bad for the women living there, that is an awful long time. :-(

[moopetguy]

DEET harms babies

 

My comment below is not meant to invalidate everything you said, but specifically the above is not proven to be true. The CDC disagrees with you:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/disasters/environmental.html#insect

 

"Repellents containing active ingredients, such as DEET and picaridin, which have been registered with the EPA, are considered safe for pregnant and breastfeeding women.

 

"To lower the risk of infections spread by mosquitoes, pregnant women should use insect repellants, stay indoors during peak times of mosquito activity (usually dawn and dusk) and wear protective clothing (such as long-sleeve shirts, long pants, and socks).

 

 

"For more information on use of DEET during pregnancy, please see

http://www.otispregnancy.org/files/deet.pdf"

 

 

And as mentioned above, there are other precautions beyond simply using bugspray.

 

 

I said I would share the OP's concerns and I do not think she is overreacting. If we are going to stick to evidence-based claims, though, let's not imply that a pregnant woman cannot use DEET.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

The thing that some of you continously seem to miss though is that she can't take the precautions; DEET harms babies, and is the only bugspray strong enough.(

My comment below is not meant to invalidate everything you said, but specifically the above is not proven to be true. The CDC disagrees with you:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/disasters/environmental.html#insect

 

"Repellents containing active ingredients, such as DEET and picaridin, which have been registered with the EPA, are considered safe for pregnant and breastfeeding women.

 

"To lower the risk of infections spread by mosquitoes, pregnant women should use insect repellants, stay indoors during peak times of mosquito activity (usually dawn and dusk) and wear protective clothing (such as long-sleeve shirts, long pants, and socks).

 

 

"For more information on use of DEET during pregnancy, please see

http://www.otispregnancy.org/files/deet.pdf"

 

 

And as mentioned above, there are other precautions beyond simply using bugspray.

 

 

I said I would share the OP's concerns and I do not think she is overreacting. If we are going to stick to evidence-based claims, though, let's not imply that a pregnant woman cannot use DEET.

Thank you for posting that detailed factual information. :)

 

It speaks for itself.

 

In the end...the OP needs to make the right decisions for them. At least now, they have some of the facts to make such a decision.

[LisaNorthseadreamer]

My doctor did not reccomend it, but I know that the USA has laxer safety laws (also in terms of food-safety) then Europe, so maybe that is where the confusion comes from. You allow a lot of things that are banned in Europe.

 

The WHO has updated warnings etc., it does not look good. They say it might spread to the whole American continent, bar Chile and Canada (too cold for the mosquito).

 

This convo is making me cranky (I really dislike dismissive people) so I'm going to retreat. Have safe travels, OP. :-)

[NewSalt]

Sorry for that bad luck.

 

But given the millions of tourists in just that one city alone...the odds are still quite minuscule. Deet spray would help of course.

 

No one blames precautions...but cancelling a cruise for just the tiny odds of a problem seems extreme.

 

The point is it DID happen to him. And I've been bitten by mosquitos when using DEET.

 

When my DD asked her doctor about the dangers of something else, he said it would probably be safe but she had to realize it was like playing Russian roulette. I don't know about you, but I'd never take that kind of chance when the wrong outcome would be as serious as microcephaly.

[kobecat]

I would not take the risk and believe with the right paperwork your insurance company should pay out. I give plasma every two weeks and after a Caribbean cruise a few years ago I tested positive to malaria when testing was done. I did not remember seeing mosquitoes and did not get sick but I was obviously bitten by an infected mosquito. Your potential future baby is much more important.

[csw123]

At the point of booking this cruise over 6 months ago we hadn't even been referred for fertility treatment.

 

RC has said that if I can PROVE I am pregnant (which we won't know for atleast another week as pregnancy won't show up in tests until after a certain point) then we will receive a full refund from them due to the Foreign Office advising pregnant women not to travel to these areas.

 

In the case of the insurance who we haven't been able to get any information from about our individual case until their offices are open tomorrow, or spoken with my fertility consultant, we won't know where we stand if we cancel, "take the financial hit" and then claim the money back through our insurance.

 

 

 

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OP - how did you find this information from RCI about refunding your cancellation. I contacted them and they are unwilling to work with us on a cancellation. Admittedly, I didn't purchase the travel insurance bc it stated it didn't cover any pregnancy related issues if you booked knowing you were pregnant.

 

I did not intend to cancel but wo u kd consider it with the recent CDC warning.

 

Thanks in advance for any info you can offer.

[reallyitsmema]

OP - how did you find this information from RCI about refunding your cancellation. I contacted them and they are unwilling to work with us on a cancellation. Admittedly, I didn't purchase the travel insurance bc it stated it didn't cover any pregnancy related issues if you booked knowing you were pregnant.

 

I did not intend to cancel but wo u kd consider it with the recent CDC warning.

 

Thanks in advance for any info you can offer.

 

The OP is from the UK so cruise line policies are not the same.

[Alter Ego]

The point is it DID happen to him. And I've been bitten by mosquitos when using DEET.

 

When my DD asked her doctor about the dangers of something else, he said it would probably be safe but she had to realize it was like playing Russian roulette. I don't know about you, but I'd never take that kind of chance when the wrong outcome would be as serious as microcephaly.

 

I agree - I too have used DEET and still got plenty of mosquito bites. Everyone on my tour did.

 

This doesn't effect me - not pregnant nor planning to get pregnant. I also know that the probability is very slim that somebody would be infected. BUT, I also understand somebody being worried.

 

There are some risks that you can't control, so you just have to live your life. But, when you do have control, you are able to make a decision that is right for you.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

So it appears the lesson learned from the sum of the posts is no pregnant women should ever be on cruises....whether its for mosquito risks or other potential risks.

[ATC cruiser]

So it appears the lesson learned from the sum of the posts is no pregnant women should ever be on cruises....whether its for mosquito risks or other potential risks.

 

 

I'm not sure, but from that post, your making lite of the situation. This is something to be taken very seriously. Even though the risk of infection from this virus is very small, it is still a risk I would not be willing to take, just so I could take a cruise. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

[Kylie and Richard]

Thank you to all who have posted helpful and supportive comments. We have just been and cancelled our cruise as we feel the risk is too great for the sake of a 12 day holiday. We could never forgive ourselves if we went and subsequently had a child who ended up with problems due to our own selfish whims.

We will hopefully get the 75% of the cruise total that Royal Caribbean have taken, back through our insurance company as the fertility clinic has told us not to go due to the risk.

I will let you all know if we are successful with our claim.

It's very disappointing that Royal Caribbean who pride themselves as being one of the best, haven't even bothered to send out any information to passengers travelling on their ships to the areas with this virus to inform them about the situation. We only found out through the news and then subsequent research on the Internet.

Happy and safe cruising to those travelling in the near future x

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[CRUISEFAN0001]

I'm not sure, but from that post, your making lite of the situation. This is something to be taken very seriously. Even though the risk of infection from this virus is very small, it is still a risk I would not be willing to take, just so I could take a cruise. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

Actually...if one reads the various responses...it has been taken seriously.

 

There are also differences of opinion that can be respected in contrasting views - both ways. No apologies required.

 

Glad to hear the OP is moving forward with what is right for them - that is ultimately the best of results.

Edited January 25, 2016 by CRUISEFAN0001

[CRUISEFAN0001]

We will hopefully get the 75% of the cruise total that Royal Caribbean have taken, back through our insurance company as the fertility clinic has told us not to go due to the risk. I will let you all know if we are successful with our claim.

Regardless of our contrasting views on related discussions - we all hope for the best results in your refund and your future cruise opportunities.

[novicetraveller]

Above everything, good luck with the fertility process.

[cricri26]

Hi everyone, me and my husband was suppose to cruise this Sunday and decided to cancel due to the virus in the Caribbean. I have been consulting in fertility clinic for almost 2 years. Both doctors and the cruise compagny told me that even if I'm not currently pregnant that I shouldn't go. The risk of being sick or getting the virus isn't worth. You will get to travel later , health is priority

[cricri26]

Hi everyone, me and my husband was suppose to cruise this Sunday and decided to cancel due to the virus in the Caribbean. I have been consulting in fertility clinic for almost 2 years. Both doctors and the cruise compagny told me that even if I'm not currently pregnant that I shouldn't go. The risk of being sick or getting the virus isn't worth. You will get to travel later , health is priority

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[tinkertwo]

Hi everyone, me and my husband was suppose to cruise this Sunday and decided to cancel due to the virus in the Caribbean. I have been consulting in fertility clinic for almost 2 years. Both doctors and the cruise compagny told me that even if I'm not currently pregnant that I shouldn't go. The risk of being sick or getting the virus isn't worth. You will get to travel later , health is priority

 

i'm so glad. its a good choice that you will never regret. theres always time for travel later and it may be so much more fun with the 'family' in tow.

good wishes for the best outcome of your fertility clinic visits.

[Aussieflyer]

The Australian government has just posted a warning for all travellers not just pregnant women to postpone travel to affected areas. For Australians the statement is "The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has issued new advice warning Australians, particularly pregnant women, to reconsider plans to travel to 22 countries affected by the virus, including many in South and Central America, and the Pacific island nation Samoa."

If I had the remotest possibility of being pregnant or becoming pregnant in the near future I think I would be cancelling any travel to these areas. Given that I am well past it, I will continue to cruise but use heavy duty DEET if in a mosquito prone area.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Aussieflyer

[Aussieflyer]

For interest, these are the countries referred to by our Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade:

Barbados

Bolivia

Brazil

Cape Verde

Colombia

Ecuador

El Salvador

French Guiana

Guadelope

Guatemala

Guyana

Haiti

Honduras

Martinique

Mexico

Panama

Paraguay

Puerto Rico

Saint Martin

Samoa

Suriname

Venezuela