New Dress Code

[jm485]

I don't usually frequent the HAL boards, but my MIL (a devoted HAL cruiser) has a birthday that puts a new number at the beginning of her age next year. So we are considering a "family" cruise (DH, MIL and me) to celebrate -- the Prisendam Arctic Circle trip. While DH and I prefer a more casual atmosphere, this trip is about his mom and what she'd like to do. We understand dress codes and certainly wouldn't travel if we plan to flout them. But -- even though I'm practically a toddler in terms of the average age on HAL ships -- the attitude here is frankly a real turn-off.

 

Even in my (relatively) short life, two important things I've learned are:

 

1. Those who would assess how much "class" people have by how they are dressed are often poor judges of character, who place too much emphasis on appearances.

 

2. People who truly have "class" are those who are concerned with making the people around them feel welcome and comfortable.

 

Maybe Billy Joel put it best when he sang "You know the good old days weren't always good and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems." Yes, the hats and gloves and hairstyles of the 50s are fun to look at. But if I'd lived during the 50s, I wouldn't have been able to have the profession I'm in, because "women don't belong in finance." My husband wouldn't have been able to pursue his career in the arts because "men need to have jobs to support their families." I'm glad to live in a time when people feel they can be more open about themselves and what they want than being restricted to conform to society's demands about how things should "look," irrespective of how they really were.

 

And I can't help but wonder what OP would say if -- in response to his very impertinent and impolite grilling about the status of others' luggage -- the answer was "No, the airline lost our luggage en route to the departure point and it hadn't caught up to us before boarding. It was easier to send it home than have it chase after the ship in the hope of reaching us. So we're trying to make do with what was in our carry-ons and whatever we can find in the shops on board and in port to get us through. We feel terrible about not having the proper clothes, but we're trying hard not to let it spoil our good time. So sorry that our appearance is disturbing you. Perhaps the maître d' can seat us with a party that is more interested in our conversation than our attire?"

Edited June 10, 2016 by jm485
grammar

[dakrewser]

Bravo jm485!

[navybankerteacher]

Given the cost and inconvenience of packing a dinner jacket (tux), and the lack of a dress code where it would be expected, there seems very little reason to bother. However, to the extent that a "gala night" is on the schedule, it does seem only civil to recognize it and to wear more than the bare minimum.

 

Because I find it convenient to have pockets for passports, tickets, etc. I always wear a blazer when traveling - for the convenience in carrying necessary stuff as well as having a way of dressing that touch more formally when there is a "gala night" - meaning a real shirt and a necktie (which takes close to zero space).

 

Of course what others wears makes no difference in how food tastes, but when in a situation where it is requested to wear more than the usual - minimal courtesy towards fellow passengers would seem to indicate going that extra few yards and wearing a jacket and tie.

[smileycruiser2007]

If you have been on a Carnival cruise, you will see men wearing only swim trunks or women wearing only a bathing suit in the Lido at lunch. Not a good look in a dining area for anyone. That made me lose my appetite, YMMV.

[stevec999]

I really never paid attention to how others dressed. With all the discussions of dress codes I actually paid attention on my cruise on the Zuiderdam last February.

 

On non gala nights I saw everything from jeans and t-shirts to dockers and jackets. On gala nights dockers and polos to full formal wear.

 

What I found interesting was the crazy color and patterns of some of the jacket and tie combinations. I saw plaid jackets with striped ties. Also jackets so bright they were blinding :), there was on particularly vibrant lime green one.

 

The net of all this, none of it had an impact on my evening. Of course I was one of the low class wearing dockers on gala night and jeans on other nights. Sure I ruined a few peoples dinner.

 

I don't like dressing up and I have reached a point that I won't. We are booked on Oceania next January. No dress up nights just dockers and collared shirts.

 

One poster mentioned bathing suits in the lido dinning area on Carnival. I can't imagine putting a swimming pool on each side of the lido cafe and people actually coming in and getting food. Oh yes, I saw the same thing happening on HAL.

 

Of course you can probably take my comments with a grain of salt because I actually enjoy Carnival.:D

[iancal]

I think the entire dress issue is overblown. It is only a small minority of people who make a big issue out this.

 

Besides, does anyone really think that people will alter their attire based on this forum? Not likely.

 

The notion of equating what some people refer to as 'class' or 'classy' in our experience very much misses the mark in terms of reality. Anyone can put on a good suit or a nice dress but it certainly does not mean that they are classy. Class, IMHO, goes far beyond and so much deeper than attire, income, or station in life.

Edited June 10, 2016 by iancal

[darleen1421]

So, everyone is discussing what men wear. What about women? I have not worn a dress in years! I wear dress slacks and fancy top. Is this not acceptable?

[iancal]

I have no doubt that there are some people who think Bernie Madoff is a 'classy' guy because he wore $2500 suits. Does not matter that he would steal the gold fillings out of your mouth at the MDR if he could or that he financially ruined the retirement security of hundreds of people.

Edited June 10, 2016 by iancal

[Fouremco]

So, everyone is discussing what men wear. What about women? I have not worn a dress in years! I wear dress slacks and fancy top. Is this not acceptable?

Absolutely acceptable. :)

[Mosaic]

I often equate this question with FOOD. Do you want quality food in the MDR? Dressed down? Short on presentation? Short on flavor? They often go hand in hand. Having a great burger is equally good, but I can do that any day...

[RocketMan275]

Of course what others wears makes no difference in how food tastes, but when in a situation where it is requested to wear more than the usual - minimal courtesy towards fellow passengers would seem to indicate going that extra few yards and wearing a jacket and tie.

 

"Minimal courtesy towards fellow passengers would seem to indicate" respecting their choices in dress as long as their choices satisfy the dress code.

[Fouremco]

I often equate this question with FOOD. Do you want quality food in the MDR? Dressed down? Short on presentation? Short on flavor? They often go hand in hand. Having a great burger is equally good, but I can do that any day...

The best seafood I've eaten wasn't wearing my finery in a five-star restaurant but wearing cutoffs and a t-shirt enjoying a lobster-boil on the beach.

[RocketMan275]

I often equate this question with FOOD. Do you want quality food in the MDR? Dressed down? Short on presentation? Short on flavor? They often go hand in hand. Having a great burger is equally good, but I can do that any day...

 

The decline in food quality has nothing to do with how the passengers dress and everything to do with the desires of the cruising public for cut-rate fares. You'll still find high quality dining with superior presentation in the specialty restaurants.

 

BTW, the majority of the 'higher quality' cruise lines do not do formal/gala/chic nights but are smart casual all the time in all dining venues. Those cruise lines that have implemented special dining areas for suites passengers do not observe formal/gala/chic nights in those venues either.

Edited June 10, 2016 by RocketMan275

[navybankerteacher]

"Minimal courtesy towards fellow passengers would seem to indicate" respecting their choices in dress as long as their choices satisfy the dress code.

 

Why did you exclude the operative part of my post: "... when in a situation where it is requested to wear more than the usual..." referring to such dress code as may exist? I am referring to the schlubs who insist on their jeans and tee shirts when jacket and tie is suggested - and jeans and tee shirts are specified as inappropriate.

 

Of course, even when stated, dress codes are not generally enforced - which essentially nods approval to pretty much anything.

[CaveDiving]

We will be on the Eurodam from 18th May and are wondering whether or not to pack DH's dinner suit and my frocks. Does anyone know please just how formal the gala nights are now they have loosened the dress code? We have never sailed with HAL before and are really looking forward to it.

 

Thanks

 

I have always cruised with several tuxes, but lately I feel definitely overdressed and out of place in a tux. I will be switching to sports jackets for gala nights.

 

Scott & Karen

[HUNKY]

At a minimum, "Gala Nights evoke the grand traditions of cruising...For gentlemen, collared shirts and slacks are required in all fine dining restaurants."

 

"Jacket and tie is the preferred attire in all fine dining restaurants on Gala Nights, though it is not required. Guests without a jacket and tie were allowed in the fine dining restaurants before the new wording..."

 

So, on Gala Nights, guys may wear what they want starting with a minimum of a collared shirt along with slacks/pants, although not jeans. You can go as formal as you want - all the way up to white tie!

 

On smart casual nights, jeans that are not distressed are welcomed.

[RocketMan275]

Why did you exclude the operative part of my post: "... when in a situation where it is requested to wear more than the usual..." referring to such dress code as may exist? I am referring to the schlubs who insist on their jeans and tee shirts when jacket and tie is suggested - and jeans and tee shirts are specified as inappropriate.

 

Of course, even when stated, dress codes are not generally enforced - which essentially nods approval to pretty much anything.

 

Your statement was included in it's entirety just above my comment. When you stated: "minimal courtesy towards fellow passengers would seem to indicate going that extra few yards and wearing a jacket and tie." clearly indicated that you were trying to rewrite the dress code to make jackets and ties a requirement when the dress code clearly states that they are not.

 

"Suggestions" are not "requirements". "Minimal courtesy" requires respecting the decisions of others as long as they dress to the code. "Minimal courtesy" does not include that they dress to your desired requirements.

[navybankerteacher]

Your statement was included in it's entirety just above my comment. When you stated: "minimal courtesy towards fellow passengers would seem to indicate going that extra few yards and wearing a jacket and tie." clearly indicated that you were trying to rewrite the dress code to make jackets and ties a requirement when the dress code clearly states that they are not.

 

"Suggestions" are not "requirements". "Minimal courtesy" requires respecting the decisions of others as long as they dress to the code. "Minimal courtesy" does not include that they dress to your desired requirements.

 

"Minimal courtesy" does most certainly involve complying with SUGGESTED dress codes. If REQUIREMENTS were involved, courtesy would not be a concern: those who chose to ignore those requirements would simply not be there. That is a major element in the concept or courtesy: complying with suggested norms voluntarily, and not only when forced.

 

I have no desired "requirements" - merely a preference to comply with suggestions which are generously worded so as not to hint at rigid enforcement.

Unfortunately, a lot of people will only make the effort when forced.

[Skoogs]

I wonder what "nude cruise" passengers wear on Gala nights?

[jm485]

I wonder what "nude cruise" passengers wear on Gala nights?

 

 

 

A boa, pearls and heels.

 

And then there are the ladies ...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dakrewser]

I am referring to the schlubs who insist on their jeans and tee shirts when jacket and tie is suggested - and jeans and tee shirts are specified as inappropriate.

 

 

Perhaps you didn't realize you were on the HAL boards - I've never seen "schlubs who insist on their jeans and tee shirts" on a Gala or Formal night in a HAL MDR.

[RocketMan275]

"Minimal courtesy" does most certainly involve complying with SUGGESTED dress codes. If REQUIREMENTS were involved, courtesy would not be a concern: those who chose to ignore those requirements would simply not be there. That is a major element in the concept or courtesy: complying with suggested norms voluntarily, and not only when forced.

 

I have no desired "requirements" - merely a preference to comply with suggestions which are generously worded so as not to hint at rigid enforcement.

Unfortunately, a lot of people will only make the effort when forced.

 

For your convenience, here is the pertinent portion of the code:

"Q: Are a jacket and tie required for men?"

"A: Jacket and tie is the preferred attire in all fine dining restaurants on Gala Nights, though it is not required. Guests without a jacket and tie were allowed in the fine dining restaurants before the new wording so this is not a policy change."

 

Now, for more information, some definitions:

 

Suggestion: "an idea or plan put forward for consideration."

Requirement: "a thing that is compulsory; a necessary condition."

Preferred: "like (one thing or person) better than another or others."

 

Your attempt to define "minimal courtesy" as compliance with "suggestions" is an attempt to rewrite the dress code to your satisfaction. You are attempting to define "minimal courtesy" as compliance with your wishes while refusing to extend "minimal courtesy" to others who prefer to dress differently but in compliance with the code. "Courtesy" is a two-way street.

[RocketMan275]

I wonder what "nude cruise" passengers wear on Gala nights?

 

That was discussed in another thread. According to those with more experince than I, the rules for nude cruises require clothing in all dining venues. Nude cruise passengers are also required to have with them something to sit upon, ie, towel, pillow, etc, in all public areas of the ship.

[Fouremco]

While the Q&A section of the website mentions a preference but no requirement for a jacket and tie, the Know Before You Go document tells a very different tale, as it is totally silent on the issue of ties and jackets:

 

CLOTHING

Most evenings smart casual attire is appropriate. Shorts,

pool/beachwear, distressed jeans and men’s tank tops are best left to the daytime and are not permitted in fine dining restaurants.

 

Gala Nights evoke the grand traditions of cruising as guests dress to impress for special events on board, including a five-course gourmet dinner in the Dining Room. For gentlemen, collared shirt and slacks are required in all fine dining restaurants . For ladies, dressy attire is appropriate, dresses skirts and slacks are all acceptable.

 

As HAL chooses to send the KBYG document to its passengers and not the information in the Q&A, the message seems to be fairly clear.

[iancal]

Bottom line....there is. NO requirement for jacket and tie. HAL spells it out very clearly. To imply otherwise is simply not factual.

 

Too many posters seem to want to insert their own version of prefererences/opinions into the HAL wordings.