PVSA/Jones Act Podcast

[runnerodb83]

For all those interested, there is a great podcast on the origin and effect of this law. I've put a link here...

 

https://sites.google.com/site/princesscruisesfaq/pvsahelp

 

That being said, they leave out a very tiny detail - if a foreign ship stops at a "distant port", aka on another continent, some central american countries, or the ABC islands, the Jones Act/PVSA does not affect foreign flagged vessels.

[Cruisin' Chick]

It's just the PVSA. Not the Jones act (which isn't about passengers).

[beg3yrs]

It's just the PVSA. Not the Jones act (which isn't about passengers).

 

I hope the podcast makes that clear!

[Cruisin' Chick]

not planning on watching the podcast (there's college football on:) ) but the OP added something that isn't on the page he/she linked to, and there's already people who seem to confuse the two laws.

[Steelers0854]

distant port", aka on another continent, some central american countries, or the ABC islands, the Jones Act/PVSA does not affect foreign flagged vessels.

 

 

 

I believe Puerto Rico is also included in this list.

[easyboy]

For all those interested, there is a great podcast on the origin and effect of this law. I've put a link here...

 

https://sites.google.com/site/princesscruisesfaq/pvsahelp

 

That being said, they leave out a very tiny detail - if a foreign ship stops at a "distant port", aka on another continent, some central american countries, or the ABC islands, the Jones Act/PVSA does not affect foreign flagged vessels.

Thanks.

[Lucky TGO]

For all those interested, there is a great podcast on the origin and effect of this law. I've put a link here...

 

https://sites.google.com/site/princesscruisesfaq/pvsahelp

 

That being said, they leave out a very tiny detail - if a foreign ship stops at a "distant port", aka on another continent, some central american countries, or the ABC islands, the Jones Act/PVSA does not affect foreign flagged vessels.

Very nice thank you.

Tony

[lstone19]

I believe Puerto Rico is also included in this list.

 

Puerto Rico, being part of the U.S., is not a distant FOREIGN port.

[jagoffee]

It's just the PVSA. Not the Jones act (which isn't about passengers).

 

I listened to the Podcast and I found it entertaining. It was about the Jones Act as it was mentioned several times and was in the background information. The detailed history was interesting to me. I do not believe they even mentioned the PVSA, but they did lead with family missing a cruise departure in NY. The family was told they would need to pay $300 PP if they wanted to board in Florida since the ship was returning to NY. The reporter said the family was told that it was because of the Jones Act, but all the other examples were about freight and the requirement of built in the US, staff by US personnel, and flagged in the US.

[pablo222]

not planning on watching the podcast (there's college football on:) ) but the OP added something that isn't on the page he/she linked to' date=' and there's already people who seem to confuse the two laws.[/quote']

 

That's why the subject SHOULD include both.

 

So that someone who is thinking Jones act can watch the podcast, too.

[Steelers0854]

Puerto Rico, being part of the U.S., is not a distant FOREIGN port.

 

 

 

I am aware that Puerto Rico is a US territory and is not a distant foreign port, but there is an exemption in place for Puerto Rico:

 

Transportation of Passengers Between Puerto Rico and Other U.S. Ports—46 U.S.C. § 55104

 

An exception to the PVSA permits non-coastwise-qualified vessels (vessels not qualified to engage in the coastwise trade) to transport passengers on voyages between ports in Puerto Rico and other U.S. ports until qualified U.S. vessels are available.

[Cruisin' Chick]

I listened to the Podcast and I found it entertaining. It was about the Jones Act as it was mentioned several times and was in the background information. The detailed history was interesting to me. I do not believe they even mentioned the PVSA, but they did lead with family missing a cruise departure in NY. The family was told they would need to pay $300 PP if they wanted to board in Florida since the ship was returning to NY. The reporter said the family was told that it was because of the Jones Act, but all the other examples were about freight and the requirement of built in the US, staff by US personnel, and flagged in the US.

 

but it's the PVSA that would keep cruise line passengers from being able to board a cruise when it violates the law...not the Jones act. Cruise critic is about cruises, not about transporting freight.

[lstone19]

I am aware that Puerto Rico is a US territory and is not a distant foreign port, but there is an exemption in place for Puerto Rico:

 

Transportation of Passengers Between Puerto Rico and Other U.S. Ports—46 U.S.C. § 55104

 

An exception to the PVSA permits non-coastwise-qualified vessels (vessels not qualified to engage in the coastwise trade) to transport passengers on voyages between ports in Puerto Rico and other U.S. ports until qualified U.S. vessels are available.

 

As I understand this, this exception permits travel on foreign vessels between Puerto Rico and other U.S. ports, not from one U.S. port to another U.S. port via Puerto Rico (compare to from one U.S. port to another U.S. port via a distant foreign port which is legal). If via Puerto Rico was legal, I'm sure cruise lines would already be taking advantage of it and Regal's 10-day New York to Ft. Lauderdale via Bonaire would instead be an 8-day via San Juan.

[jagoffee]

but it's the PVSA that would keep cruise line passengers from being able to board a cruise when it violates the law...not the Jones act. Cruise critic is about cruises' date=' not about transporting freight.[/quote']

 

I did not mean to imply that I had any knowledge on the subject. I was just relaying what was said in the podcast. I was getting the impression that most people posting did not actually listen to it. I guess you have to listen to it to understand what I was saying. The Podcast starts with a family missing a cruise the the Bahamas.

What you are saying is that cruise line either gave the cruise passenger the wrong reason for the $300 extra charge and/or the reporter's mis used this example as their lead in. Not surprised that both could be true.

[chengkp75]

I did not mean to imply that I had any knowledge on the subject. I was just relaying what was said in the podcast. I was getting the impression that most people posting did not actually listen to it. I guess you have to listen to it to understand what I was saying. The Podcast starts with a family missing a cruise the the Bahamas.

What you are saying is that cruise line either gave the cruise passenger the wrong reason for the $300 extra charge and/or the reporter's mis used this example as their lead in. Not surprised that both could be true.

 

However, the podcast lumps the family missing the cruise ship with the Jones Act, and never once mentions the PVSA. And yes, the cruise line customer service agents very frequently, sometimes almost universally use the term "Jones Act" when they mean the PVSA, and that the lead in to the podcast had nothing to do with the Jones Act, but with the PVSA.

 

And while the podcast proclaims that the benefits of the Jones Act are "limited to a few", there are 40,000 Jones Act vessels in service today, supporting 500,000 US citizens, and providing $100 billion in economic impact. The "diffuse" benefit to US citizens in general are safer vessels that are subject to USCG regulations, and crew that must meet USCG training.

[thinfool]

NPR usually does better than this. Disappointing. :(

[runnerodb83]

The difference between the Jones act and PVSA is not mentioned in the podcast, and they do muddle the two. However, since the laws are similar - it presents some insight into the cargo trade and the way the market has adapted in similar ways that we all know the cruise industry has adapted.

 

While I'll admit there is a tilt on how the information is presented (pro vs con for the law), there is some economic analysis provided also. Take it at face value.

 

And given some of the comments on this, I should probably preface (postface??) as FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY...sheesh

[Cuizer2]

I believe Puerto Rico is also included in this list.

 

If you are on a cruise between two US ports, a stop in Puerto Rico will not make the voyage legal. However, if your cruise begins or ends in Puerto Rico, then you will not be violating the PVSA.

[chengkp75]

For all those interested, there is a great podcast on the origin and effect of this law. I've put a link here...

 

https://sites.google.com/site/princesscruisesfaq/pvsahelp

 

That being said, they leave out a very tiny detail - if a foreign ship stops at a "distant port", aka on another continent, some central american countries, or the ABC islands, the Jones Act/PVSA does not affect foreign flagged vessels.

 

Just a note, no Central American country is considered a distant foreign port. Only South America and the ABC islands which are considered to be part of South America.

[thinfool]

Just a note, no Central American country is considered a distant foreign port. Only South America and the ABC islands which are considered to be part of South America.

 

 

So what exception had to be made for the just- completed Crystal Serenity itinerary from ANC to NYC thru the "northwest passage"?

 

 

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[Steelers0854]

As I understand this, this exception permits travel on foreign vessels between Puerto Rico and other U.S. ports, not from one U.S. port to another U.S. port via Puerto Rico (compare to from one U.S. port to another U.S. port via a distant foreign port which is legal). If via Puerto Rico was legal, I'm sure cruise lines would already be taking advantage of it and Regal's 10-day New York to Ft. Lauderdale via Bonaire would instead be an 8-day via San Juan.

 

 

 

Puerto Rico is a US port as you previously stated. So a cruise originating in Puerto Rico and ending in another US city would be legal according to the way I read the exemption.

 

I very well could be wrong. I'm certainly no expert in this matter. I was hoping. Cheng would chime in and clarify.

[chengkp75]

Puerto Rico is a US port as you previously stated. So a cruise originating in Puerto Rico and ending in another US city would be legal according to the way I read the exemption.

 

I very well could be wrong. I'm certainly no expert in this matter. I was hoping. Cheng would chime in and clarify.

 

Yes, a cruise starting or ending in Puerto Rico, and conversely starting or ending in a mainland US port is exempt from the PVSA, as is the USVI. As lstone says, a cruise from one mainland US port to another mainland US port, with a stop in PR does not meet the PVSA, unless it calls at a "distant" foreign port.

 

Carnival has one way cruises from Galveston (IIRC) to San Juan, and vice versa, but you could not combine a Galveston to San Juan B2B with a San Juan to Miami.

[lstone19]

So what exception had to be made for the just- completed Crystal Serenity itinerary from ANC to NYC thru the "northwest passage"?

 

 

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Assuming this year's itinerary was the same as next year's, it made port calls in Greenland which qualifies as a distant foreign port.

 

 

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[chengkp75]

Assuming this year's itinerary was the same as next year's, it made port calls in Greenland which qualifies as a distant foreign port.

 

 

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Yes, despite common geographic definitions that place Greenland as part of North America, apparently CBP considers it to be a "distant" foreign port, but I've not seen anything in writing defining this.

[JF - retired RRT]

Yes, despite common geographic definitions that place Greenland as part of North America, apparently CBP considers it to be a "distant" foreign port, but I've not seen anything in writing defining this.

 

If Ensenada is a distant foreign port, surely Greenland would qualify.