Southwest question

[parody]

2. No, I would not call flights to the Caribbean "transoceanic."

6. Great.... if you happen to be one of the few air travelers needing to go from Providence to Baltimore, LOL.

 

7. And it most certainly is delayed release. The legacy airlines open their schedules 330 days out, or about 11 months ahead. Southwest only opens theirs something like 6 months ahead. I call that a delayed release.

 

8. You actually mentioned another reason not to like Southwest that I hadn't listed, and it's the fact that if you are trying to do an easy comparison of flight options and prices via Expedia or similar, you won't see any Southwest data. (completely different from #7 above)

 

:)

 

2. OK

 

6. There are other O/D pairs where ONLY WN operates. I mentioned that one because I have used it frequently.

 

7. With that line of reasoning about "delayed releases", one would never see jetBlue? How about a flight I want to take the next day and WN schedules certainly exist.

 

8. True, can't easily do one-stop shopping. But if you are against WN anyway, it makes no difference.

[beckzay]

Wow, you guys sure are serious about airline companies :0

 

It was a simple question...I didn't mean for it to turn into a debate about southwest and jet blue.

[FlyerTalker]

Wow, you guys sure are serious about airline companies.

Yes, and for good reason.

 

I find it interesting that people will research the hell out of which cruise has the most loungers per guest and similar, yet buy air tickets almost completely on price alone. Or they will research televisions, appliances and electronics for months but spend the same (or more) on air tickets without due dilligence.

 

Southwest has spent years and millions of dollars to convince the US public that they have the cheapest fares and the best airline. At one time, you could have reasonably surmised that WN had the cheapest tickets on a route. Not anymore. Their business model has changed and so has their pricing AND operational performance.

 

So yes, one should be serious and be an informed consumer. The devil IS in the details.

[waterbug123]

7. With that line of reasoning about "delayed releases", one would never see jetBlue? How about a flight I want to take the next day and WN schedules certainly exist.

 

8. True, can't easily do one-stop shopping. But if you are against WN anyway, it makes no difference.

 

7. a)I don't think you understand what I mean by delayed release. Example: If I want to book a flight to XXX for early next September, I can book it today for travel in September on Delta, United or American. I can't book it on WN because they don't release Sept 2017 tickets for sale this early. b) I have no idea what you comment about never seeing JetBlue means. c) I never said there was a problem buying tickets for the next day, but the fact of the matter is you can't book a WN ticket as far out as you can for the legacy airlines and that can be important.

 

8. I'm not against WN. I have flown them occasionally and will probably fly them again at some point. But they aren't my first choice for various reasons; Delta is. You asked what's not to like about WN, and I gave you some examples of why some people don't like them, or at least don't consider them a first or second choice. :)

[klfrodo]

Another wouldn't fly WN if is was free here.

 

AS for me anywhere anytime.

To be fair I have reached a certain level of status with this airline

 

2 bags free (They have been know to look the other way when I check in a 3rd over weight tool bag)

Get upgraded to First about half the time (Go ahead,, try first class on WN)

Partners with AA, DL, BA, KLM, EM, etc (Use your WN miles on BA to LHR)

Very few places I can't fly to on AS within the US to include Alaska and Hawaii. (WN going to Hawaii yet?)

[kelmac]

Another wouldn't fly WN if is was free here.

 

AS for me anywhere anytime.

To be fair I have reached a certain level of status with this airline

 

2 bags free (They have been know to look the other way when I check in a 3rd over weight tool bag)

Get upgraded to First about half the time (Go ahead,, try first class on WN)

Partners with AA, DL, BA, KLM, EM, etc (Use your WN miles on BA to LHR)

Very few places I can't fly to on AS within the US to include Alaska and Hawaii. (WN going to Hawaii yet?)

 

Alaska is a great airline and I understand your situation. We only have one AS flight per day (Seattle). I have their Credit Card and love their benefits, such as the buddy pass for $99. My wife and I have upgraded to their First Class a couple of times, and it's one of the best!

We fly AS to Hawaii and Mexico.

If we had the kind of coverage you have in the northwest, we would fly them all the time.

 

In our neck of the woods, WN is our best option. Also, a great airline. No first class, but one of the best choices if you fly coach. Their Visa Card is great as well, with about 1/2 of our flights for free. I can do non-stop to LAX, SAN, PHX, DEN, SLC, PDX, OAK, LAS, HOU, DAL, MDW, BWI, and AUS. AS has one (SEA); Delta has two (ATL and SLC); United has two (DEN and IAH); American has three (LAX, PHX and DFW).

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

[parody]

7. a)I don't think you understand what I mean by delayed release. Example: If I want to book a flight to XXX for early next September, I can book it today for travel in September on Delta, United or American. I can't book it on WN because they don't release Sept 2017 tickets for sale this early. b) I have no idea what you comment about never seeing JetBlue means. c) I never said there was a problem buying tickets for the next day, but the fact of the matter is you can't book a WN ticket as far out as you can for the legacy airlines and that can be important.

 

Currently, the schedule for Southwest Airlines goes through May 8, 2017. JetBlue operates a very similar rolling schedule and currently it goes through June 14, 2017. So any ticket that you may want to purchase for September 2017 would not show either of these airlines and that would be a big mistake. In addition, looking for a fare out 330 days while possible for legacy airlines would also be a big mistake. There probably is something more recent, but folks that have examined over 500 million fare searches found that on average, the lowest domestic fare was found at 7 weeks prior to departure. See the nice figure shown at https://www.cheapair.com/blog/travel-tips/how-far-in-advance-should-i-book-my-flight/#more-800490460

Edited October 18, 2016 by parody

[janetz]

Check on JB today. There is a sale. Just booked April for 74.00 down and 89.00 back, bags included. :D

Edited October 18, 2016 by janetz

[waterbug123]

There probably is something more recent, but folks that have examined over 500 million fare searches found that on average, the lowest domestic fare was found at 7 weeks prior to departure.

 

You really need to understand what those types of studies are actually saying. Many are mislead into thinking "oh, I should wait til 7 weeks out and buy then because that will be the cheapest price," when in fact that could actually be the most expensive day, but when all the data is AVERAGED, it looks like 7 weeks out (or 5 or 3 or whatever a particular study purports to show) is the cheapest. In the article linked, they say as much about the averaging and that any given day including 49 days out, could be the highest or lowest price for any particular flight.

 

They also point to data that says when you start looking 7 months out the prices are highest and go down from there, which is interesting, because that's usually about the point at which WN and B6 release their schedules, yet the legacy schedules would have been out for 4 months already. Many people hold that the legacies sell out their cheaper fares early so their prices look high in comparison at the 7-ish month mark when WN or B6 release theirs. I don't spend enough time studying it to say how accurate that is or not, but this article's reference to high fares 7 months out would tend to support that theory, at least to a degree.

 

On a related note, I'm not saying 331 days out is the cheapest or that's when anyone should buy, but to compare apples to apples, you can't do it when WN and B6 don't release their schedules when everyone else does and that was the essence of what I said was a downside to WN.

Edited October 18, 2016 by waterbug123

[beckzay]

Check on JB today. There is a sale. Just booked April for 74.00 down and 89.00 back, bags included. :D

 

That's awesome! I just checked my dates/airports and I can't get that fare :( They have a decent option that I'll most likely choose if Southwest can't give me a good price once they release late April dates. Thanks for the head-up!

[parody]

On a related note, I'm not saying 331 days out is the cheapest or that's when anyone should buy, but to compare apples to apples, you can't do it when WN and B6 don't release their schedules when everyone else does and that was the essence of what I said was a downside to WN.

 

Again you have missed my point. Your argument should be not that Southwest doesn't release their fares and schedules in a manner like legacy carriers, but rather they don't share their data with other third party sites; thus one cannot do a simple side-by-side comparison. The implication is if one wants to begin looking at airfares 4 months prior to departure (say) and schedules will exist for both WN and B6 at that time, a meta-search site will typically include B6 but not WN. Thus, like it or not, one is forced to also look at Southwest. com to get a complete picture of options. Also, a true comparison would look at the total cost (including baggage fees, the odds of suffering through an involuntary denied boarding, and the expected value of a flight change). Some sites make an effort to do this unlike popular sites like Orbitz, Travelocity, and Expedia.

[beckzay]

Currently, the schedule for Southwest Airlines goes through May 8, 2017.

 

Actually, Southwest only has dates up to April 24th or something. I'm waiting for April 28 to open up...

[parody]

Actually, Southwest only has dates up to April 24th. I'm waiting for April 28 to open up...

 

Sorry--a moving target. "On November 1, 2016 we (Southwest) will open our schedule for sale through May 8, 2017. This date is subject to change. Please check back frequently." https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-schedules/index.html?clk=GSUBNAV-AIR-SCHEDULES

[beckzay]

Sorry--a moving target. "On November 1, 2016 we (Southwest) will open our schedule for sale through May 8, 2017. This date is subject to change. Please check back frequently." https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-schedules/index.html?clk=GSUBNAV-AIR-SCHEDULES

 

I was hoping you knew something I didn't ...I got excited for a minute thinking I could book my return flight, lol. Thank you for your info :)

[fbgd]

My wife and I have upgraded to their First Class a couple of times, and it's one of the best!

 

Really? Even in the shorthaul domestic realm AS F is mediocre.

[waterbug123]

Again you have missed my point. Your argument should be not that Southwest doesn't release their fares and schedules in a manner like legacy carriers, but rather they don't share their data with other third party sites; thus one cannot do a simple side-by-side comparison. The implication is if one wants to begin looking at airfares 4 months prior.

 

No, you're missing MY point. There are TWO separate issues.

1. WN doesn't release their fares as early as legacy carriers. If you want to look at all carriers, say, 10 months out, you can't. Because WN and B6 won't have released their fares. So if you have reasons to want to get your airfare booked early, you can't look at ALL airlines before you buy. This is completely separate from whether or not they share data. (see below)

 

2. WN doesn't share their data with 3rd party sites. So if you go to Expedia for instance, to compare flights from XXX to YYY, you won't see the WN flights, even if they're available, and you'll have to check multiple websites to ensure you've checked prices and routings for ALL airlines

 

2 separate issues, and 2 things I would consider a drawback to WN. Not necessarily deal breakers, but potential reasons why SOME people do not love WN.

[parody]

 

2. WN doesn't share their data with 3rd party sites. So if you go to Expedia for instance, to compare flights from XXX to YYY, you won't see the WN flights, even if they're available, and you'll have to check multiple websites to ensure you've checked prices and routings for ALL airlines

 

A very valid point -- one that you have never once mentioned in all your previous posts.

[FlyerTalker]

Toss in also the pig in a poke problem.

 

If you make the decision to wait for WN or B6, you are deliberately denying yourself the fares that are available with other carriers that have been offered prior to the release of fares by WN or B6.

 

The late Greatam posted several times about the research her company had done. It concluded that in the vast majority of cases, waiting for WN proved to be more costly than purchasing from a legacy carrier at an earlier point in time. While Southwest "may" (and that's an advisable may) have the cheapest price on the day that they release the schedule, those prices are usually higher than what one could have obtained from traditional carriers at prior points in time.

 

So by waiting for Southwest (the travel version of Godot?) one may very well lose out the opportunity to have paid less for the ticket.

 

But, if you believe that Southwest "always has the lowest prices".....what data could convince you otherwise?

[kelmac]

Really? Even in the shorthaul domestic realm AS F is mediocre.

 

Only have traveled AS First-class to Hawaii and back. Did Delta F last week and was not impressed; I would take AS any day over Delta. No experience on AA or United. BA F is great in Europe and you get access to their lounges.

[waterbug123]

A very valid point -- one that you have never once mentioned in all your previous posts.

 

And you're point is what? I put the initial list together quickly and forgot about this negative until you mentioned it. :rolleyes:

[parody]

And you're point is what? I put the initial list together quickly and forgot about this negative until you mentioned it. :rolleyes:

 

If you truly just "forgotten" about it, you could have simply said so in post #41 rather than highlight it as a new thought on your part.

[kelmac]

Toss in also the pig in a poke problem.

 

If you make the decision to wait for WN or B6, you are deliberately denying yourself the fares that are available with other carriers that have been offered prior to the release of fares by WN or B6.

 

The late Greatam posted several times about the research her company had done. It concluded that in the vast majority of cases, waiting for WN proved to be more costly than purchasing from a legacy carrier at an earlier point in time. While Southwest "may" (and that's an advisable may) have the cheapest price on the day that they release the schedule, those prices are usually higher than what one could have obtained from traditional carriers at prior points in time.

 

So by waiting for Southwest (the travel version of Godot?) one may very well lose out the opportunity to have paid less for the ticket.

 

But, if you believe that Southwest "always has the lowest prices".....what data could convince you otherwise?

 

Hi FT,

 

Do you work for an airline? Retired from an airline, or a "road warrior" with a million miles?:) Seems you are an insider?

 

Kel