Princess fined 40 million

[chengkp75]

Thanks again Chief. So in short, more scrutiny and more time and expense for all the Carnival Corporation lines - all for an appropriate cause. ;)

 

A very appropriate cause. I've seen the bad old days, and the good new days, and I appreciate the regulations that have gotten us where we are today. While I willingly follow all the regulations, and have never done anything in violation of an environmental law at sea, my personal feeling is that all of the measures that come out of violations like these make all of us on the ship feel like we are the criminals, and we are the ones who caused this, when in fact it is the corporate culture that forces some of our weaker brethren to cave in and act illegally.

[sail7seas]

This is very disappointing and disturbing news. The CIN article indicates that practice has been going on since 2005. If so, there are far more than "one set of bad actors" involved.

 

I know on HAL ships there frequently are auditors from HAL as well as from Carnival Corporation assessing the areas for which they are responsible; are the proper procedures being followed, are the expected standards being met. I would assume the ships of Princess Cruises would receive the same scrutiny. It is difficult to understand how such a situation could take place for so many years and on more than one vessel.

 

Princess Cruises failure gives a black eye to all of those Environmental Officers and crew who work in a very undesirable area of the ship who take pride in trying to keep the ocean clean. And, that is a shame!

 

As I've said, there will most likely be a department created within each line with a title like "Operational Integrity", that will act like a police department's Internal Affairs department, and which will be tasked with ensuring that the ships meet all the requirements of the settlement. This will include placing security seals on piping to prevent it being removed to install "magic pipes", and the security system surrounding these seals, more devices that record the operation of oily water separators and incinerators, and record slop tank levels, and transmit this data automatically to the OI office. Much more record keeping for the shipboard personnel. Also, the court will appoint an auditor who will make inspections of the ships to ensure they are all in compliance.

 

 

 

Isn't 5hat why HAL has EnvironmentaL Officers on every ship? Is that not their jo b?

 

 

Thank you for the fantastic post on Princess. Great to help us undestand the realities.

Edited December 2, 2016 by sail7seas

[Scrap Addict]

There is no way that upper management at Princess didn't know this was happening.

 

This story reminds of the issue with Volkswagon's diesel engines using software modifications to beat the air quality tests. And while less environmental, it also reminds me of Wells Fargo's corporate malfeasance.

 

So sad...

[bUU]

I can attest to the fact that often upper management very effectively insulates itself from exposure to the realities of the consequences of their inadequate resourcing of compliance related imperatives. My first career existed solely because of companies engaging in such conduct.

Edited December 2, 2016 by bicker

[chengkp75]

Isn't 5hat why HAL has EnvironmentaL Officers on every ship? Is that not their jo b?

 

 

Thank you for the fantastic post on Princess. Great to help us undestand the realities.

 

While it varies from line to line, the Environmental Officer is really only a supervisor who handles environmental issues on a day to day basis, dealing with the nuts and bolts of getting garbage and waste off the ship in a proper manner and properly documented, and really does not deal with engine room operations regularly. At NCL, we had an Environmental Engineer who was responsible for oily waste management and waste water treatment, outside of the Environmental Officer. The environmental officer is also under the Captain, so there is the possibility of harassment to "cut corners" just like the fleet management harassed the engineers to do what they did. The new department, whatever its form or name, will as I say have a direct reporting function to the President or CEO, so unless the person at the top is not willing to meet the environmental requirements, there can be no coercion of the auditors in their reporting of conditions on each and every ship. This department will be much like the Surveillance departments on the cruise ships, where the head of Surveillance on the ship is of course under the Captain's command, but his reporting responsibility is to the shoreside Surveillance Department, so that there can be no collusion between shipboard staff and the Surveillance Department set above them to watch their actions.

[iancal]

This makes me wonder about all cruise lines and what really transpires in international waters and those foreign waters where regs may not be efficiently enforced.

 

Cruise lines are under the gun for quarterly revenue profit, and growth. Senior management is goaled on that Plus the stock target price. Sadly, I believe that this is the prime incentive. Environmental considerations come second unless public opinion is roused.

 

$40m sounds like a lot. The real question would be how much expense has the company avoided by ignoring the regulations all this time.

Edited December 2, 2016 by iancal

[easyboy]

But will Princess affect Holland America?

I think ultimately it will.

[smokinmike]

A few hours ago I watched the Caribbean Princess as she departed Puerta Maya. I can only hope that her "Magic Pipe" that flushed fuel waste into the oceans has been permanently closed and that the reefs of Cozumel are safe from the reprehensible humans that are in charge of Carnival Corporation.

 

"Rogue employees" . . . sure.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[chengkp75]

While this is a totally reprehensible act, and as I've said, many ships are caught out doing it every year, I am surprised that a cruise line is caught in this scale of the problem. As I've said, while you would hope that the cruise lines would adhere to the regulations willingly, at the very least they have been caught and reported by passengers (and there are a whole lot of potential witnesses on each ship) in the past, and they should know they have a large target painted on them, especially in the US where rewards are given.

 

Now, not trying to minimize this offense in the slightest, but we will never know how bad this really was. As I say, under international law, ships are allowed to discharge bilge water that has 15ppm of oil in it. So, yes, we are allowed to discharge oil into the sea, but the amount is regulated. Now, bypassing the oil water separator or tricking the oil content meter allowed them to discharge bilge water that was in excess of 15ppm, but the question is, how much more than 15ppm? Was it 16ppm? Was it 30,000ppm? While both are not allowed, you would never detect the difference between 15 and 16ppm, but you certainly would at 30k. So, we really cannot say how egregious this was, or how much potential damage it caused, though any violation of the MARPOL regulations is bad.

 

As for the potential savings, a well designed ship can go years without needing to discharge waste oil ashore. Use of oil water separators to remove oil to below 15ppm and then get rid of the largest quantity, water, legally to sea, and then incineration of the oil removed from the bilge water along with the other waste oil (solids separated from the fuel in treatment before going to the engine, used engine oil, even galley fryer oil) can result in a zero quantity to reception facilities year after year. It does require manhours to accomplish, and maintenance on the equipment.

[BruceMuzz]

Since HAL and Princess were merged into the HAL Group a few years ago, the Nautical Departments on both lines have been managed by the original Princess Nautical Department.

 

The Technical Departments on both lines have been managed by the original HAL Technical Department.

[Sir PMP]

I was curious why CCL stock has gone down past two days.

 

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-carnival-usa-pollution-idUSKBN13Q4YB

 

That's why Hal should stay far away from this line and their mentality, it's too bad that Kruse is in charge of both lines after destroying Hal...

[iancal]

How do we know that this behaviour has not been occurring on other Carnival subs and ships?

 

I would assume that Carnival Corp monitored Princess in the same manner that they monitor HAL, Cunard, Carnival, Costa, etc.

[Aquahound]

But will Princess affect Holland America?

 

In a way, yes. Carnival Corp was adjudicated to a 5 year environmental compliance program on 78 ships. These ships are going to be heavily scrutinized for the next 5 years. The impact to the HAL passenger should be non-existent though.