Passport or Birth certificate ?

[Charles4515]

That's interesting and I thought that UK passports were expensive at £72.50 or $90 to you.

 

 

 

The freedom that you have to travel on these "closed loop" cruises obviously saves you the cost of that passport, but I have a question. Let us say that you return late from a shorex and see your ship sailing away. Presumably you will need a flight to meet up in the next port so surely you will need a passport for that?

 

 

 

If that is the case, I hope that your system to apply for an emergency travel document is more user friendly than ours. Ours is complex, time consuming, very expensive and comes with travel restrictions. If that is not enough, it will only be valid for that one trip.

 

 

 

I think that if I was a US citizen leaving the country I would make certain that I had a proper passport. As don't-use-real-name said, it may be expensive but sure speeds you through any checkpoints and you never know, your next cruise maybe to other parts of the world where only a passport will do.

 

 

 

Yes, you would need a passport to fly if you missed the ship. I don't know how complex our system is for an emergency travel document is and hope never to personally have to deal with it. I am very careful not to miss the ship from returning late. One other situation would be missing the ship at the embarkation port due to delayed flights but we almost always now fly in a day early. Still if there is a major storm or even computer disruption of flights one day might not be enough. So without a passport we could not fly to meet the ship without a passport. There would be no way to get an emergency travel document for that.

 

One thing those from Europe might not imagine is that many Americans don't travel much outside of the US and don't want to. You can do a lot of traveling in the USA and never see everything. So a super majority does not have passports. They don't plan to cruise to other parts of the world where a passport is required. The cruise lines lobbied for the exceptions for closed loop cruises because because getting a passport for an individual or two might not seem too expensive, some can spin it by saying $15 a year, but for a family the cost does add up quickly. I don't think most people on a closed loop cruise are going to encounter a situation where the birth certificate is not going to be enough.

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited January 1, 2017 by Charles4515

[njhorseman]

As it states on the US Customs and Border Protection web site some Caribbean countries don't accept the Passport Card. I got the list of ones that do from a web site that may or may not be accurate as to their list of countries but you say that some cruise lines might decide not accept the Passport Card. So what good is the card for those countries if you can't be sure the cruise line will accept it? You better take your birth certificate if you don't have a Passport Book. I will stick with the Passport Book and not waste money on the Passport Card.

 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/999/~/information-about-passport-cards

 

 

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We're on the NCL board, discussing an NCL cruise, and NCL, as well as the other mass market cruise lines do not go beyond the government requirements for documentation. It's luxury cruise lines such as Oceania, Azamara, Regent Seven Seas, etc. that require all passengers to have passports even if government regulations allow lesser forms of documentation.

 

Early on, when passport cards as well as the closed loop cruise exception allowing US citizens to use a birth certificate and photo ID, were introduced, neither Belize nor Roatan (Honduras) were on the original list of countries for which that alternative documentation would be accepted. The cruise lines questioned DHS about that, and received a ruling that passport cards as well as the closed loop cruise exception were acceptable for those destinations. This ruling was made years ago, immediately after the alternatives were adopted. I recall that at the time Carnival even published a statement on its website FAQ pages addressing documentation specifically stating that DHS had ruled the alternatives were indeed acceptable. The specific statement is no longer present on Carnival's (or any other cruise line's documentation FAQ) because the issue was settled years ago. Belize and Roatan are treated just like any of the other common ports of call on Caribbean cruises.

 

I'm not endorsing using a passport card or birth certificate/photo ID for a cruise. Personally I use a passport. I'm merely trying to clarify what the factual regulations are covering cruise travel in order to allow people to make their own decisions.

Edited January 1, 2017 by njhorseman

[Charles4515]

We're on the NCL board, discussing an NCL cruise, and NCL, as well as the other mass market cruise lines do not go beyond the government requirements for documentation. It's luxury cruise lines such as Oceania, Azamara, Regent Seven Seas, etc. that require all passengers to have passports even if government regulations allow lesser forms of documentation.

 

 

 

Early on, when passport cards as well as the closed loop cruise exception allowing US citizens to use a birth certificate and photo ID, were introduced, neither Belize nor Roatan (Honduras) were on the original list of countries for which that alternative documentation would be accepted. The cruise lines questioned DHS about that, and received a ruling that passport cards as well as the closed loop cruise exception were acceptable for those destinations. This ruling was made years ago, immediately after the alternatives were adopted. I recall that at the time Carnival even published a statement on its website FAQ pages addressing documentation specifically stating that DHS had ruled the alternatives were indeed acceptable. The specific statement is no longer present on Carnival's (or any other cruise line's documentation FAQ) because the issue was settled years ago. Belize and Roatan are treated just like any of the other common ports of call on Caribbean cruises.

 

 

Yes, we are on the NCL board but many people cruise on multiple cruise lines. When doing a closed loop cruise why bother with a Passport Card if one doesn't have a Passport Book when a Birth Certificate will suffice? Also there are other ports that may not accept the Passport Card. What about Barbados and Martinique? Has that changed too? I actually am planning to book a cruise with both ports this year. The Passport Card would be very handy if I were crossing the Canadian or Mexican border by car regularly, but otherwise there is not much point to it. I am renewing my Passport in a few weeks and I could get the Card for an additional $30 which is peanuts to me, so I gave it some thought, but I see no purpose in it for me as I don't live near the Canadian or Mexican border.

 

 

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[Jetlagged787]

Yes, you would need a passport to fly if you missed the ship. I don't know how complex our system is for an emergency travel document is and hope never to personally have to deal with it. I am very careful not to miss the ship from returning late. One other situation would be missing the ship at the embarkation port due to delayed flights but we almost always now fly in a day early. Still if there is a major storm or even computer disruption of flights one day might not be enough. So without a passport we could not fly to meet the ship without a passport. There would be no way to get an emergency travel document for that.

 

One thing those from Europe might not imagine is that many Americans don't travel much outside of the US and don't want to. You can do a lot of traveling in the USA and never see everything. So a super majority does not have passports. They don't plan to cruise to other parts of the world where a passport is required. The cruise lines lobbied for the exceptions for closed loop cruises because because getting a passport for an individual or two might not seem too expensive, some can spin it by saying $15 a year, but for a family the cost does add up quickly. I don't think most people on a closed loop cruise are going to encounter a situation where the birth certificate is not going to be enough.

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for the explanation Charles. We are under the impression this side of the 'Pond' that as many as 90% of Americans do not have a passport. Who can blame you when you have such a diverse variation in climate and landscape to enjoy.

[Charles4515]

Thanks for the explanation Charles. We are under the impression this side of the 'Pond' that as many as 90% of Americans do not have a passport. Who can blame you when you have such a diverse variation in climate and landscape to enjoy.

 

It may seem that way but 36% of Americans have passports which means that 64% don't have them.

[Misskitty72]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I have a question about passports.

 

A majority of people say you should get one... but then tell you to leave it in your safe and NEVER take it into port.

 

Well, what I'm wondering is... what good is a passport then if you miss the ship? Your passport is on the ship, so you can't fly home anyway.

 

(I have a passport, but this question has been nagging at me)

 

Thanks!

[njhorseman]

Yes, we are on the NCL board but many people cruise on multiple cruise lines. When doing a closed loop cruise why bother with a Passport Card if one doesn't have a Passport Book when a Birth Certificate will suffice? Also there are other ports that may not accept the Passport Card. What about Barbados and Martinique? Has that changed too? I actually am planning to book a cruise with both ports this year. The Passport Card would be very handy if I were crossing the Canadian or Mexican border by car regularly, but otherwise there is not much point to it. I am renewing my Passport in a few weeks and I could get the Card for an additional $30 which is peanuts to me, so I gave it some thought, but I see no purpose in it for me as I don't live near the Canadian or Mexican border.

 

 

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Under US rules you can clearly use a passport card for Barbados and Martinique, and even a birth certificate/drivers license if it's a closed loop cruise originating/ending in the US., because they're Caribbean Islands. Martinique is part of the French West indies, as is St. Martin (French side) so they should permit it, and Barbados is on the itineraries of many mass market lines including NCL, so without even looking it up I know NCL doesn't make an exception for Barbados, which makes it clear that Barbados allows the alternatives. Again other cruise lines may have more stringent rules.

 

I'm not saying that using a passport card or birth certificate/DL is the best way to travel, and I always travel with a passport. All I'm doing is presenting the facts in order to allow others to make their own choices.

[Charles4515]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I have a question about passports.

 

 

 

A majority of people say you should get one... but then tell you to leave it in your safe and NEVER take it into port.

 

 

 

Well, what I'm wondering is... what good is a passport then if you miss the ship? Your passport is on the ship, so you can't fly home anyway.

 

 

 

(I have a passport, but this question has been nagging at me)

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

I leave it in the safe and don't take it to most ports (some require you to take it) because that is recommended by the State Department. I think they believe if you carry it with you there is a chance it would get lost or stolen. I take a copy off the ship. That I guess makes it easier to get an emergency passport. Some report that the ship will get your Passport from the safe and hand it to the port agent but I have never had to test that and don't plan to. I think it is more likely my passport would be stolen or lost than I would miss the ship.

 

Others believe they should always have it with them in port. In case they miss the ship and as ID. I see their point but at this time I would rather follow the State Department advice and the advice given by many travel sites and leave it in the safe.

 

I would say do what you are most comfortable doing.

 

 

 

 

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Edited January 1, 2017 by Charles4515

[Jetlagged787]

It may seem that way but 36% of Americans have passports which means that 64% don't have them.

 

Thanks for putting the record straight.

[valleyvillage]

I have read the thread and noted the pros and cons but have not seen this issue addressed: do I want my boarding process success left in the hands of someone at the pier, who may or may not fully understand the birth certificates from MY state and the government issued photo ID from MY state or authority? Is there going to be a hubub about raised seals, hospital versus department of health, holograms, drivers license enhancements? To that I say, "no thank you!" and I just get the passport.

[sanger727]

Couple of thoughts. I do bring my passport, leave it in the safe and carry a copy with me along with a drivers license. Why? Because on a cruise I'm doing primarily water excursions and don't want it to get wet (or stolen if left behind while swimming). I know someone who was traveling in France when his passport was stolen. It was a simple matter of going to the US embassy to get a replacement. I have to believe that if you have a passport and the number, in this electronic day and age that's a relatively simple thing to be looked up and verified in an emergency. However, if traveling on a birth certificate alone, probably not. Think about it, when you get your passport you have to mail in your birth certificate for verification. So if you end up in Jamaica, missed the ship, no bc and no history of ever having a passport, it might be really difficult to prove you are a US citizen.

 

Plus, depending on nationality and itinerary, sometimes the ship has to keep your passport. When I went on a med cruise, as a US citizen, the ship was required to take and keep our passport. Got them back the night before debarkation.

 

As far as the cost, I totally understand not wanting to get one. Yes, $15 a year sounds affordable, but not so much when you have to pre-pay 10 years times 4 for a family. Many families would have trouble producing $600 on the spot for what is generally considered an 'optional' expense.

 

 

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Edited January 1, 2017 by sanger727

[Charles4515]

Under US rules you can clearly use a passport card for Barbados and Martinique, and even a birth certificate/drivers license if it's a closed loop cruise originating/ending in the US., because they're Caribbean Islands. Martinique is part of the French West indies, as is St. Martin (French side) so they should permit it, and Barbados is on the itineraries of many mass market lines including NCL, so without even looking it up I know NCL doesn't make an exception for Barbados, which makes it clear that Barbados allows the alternatives. Again other cruise lines may have more stringent rules.

 

 

 

I'm not saying that using a passport card or birth certificate/DL is the best way to travel, and I always travel with a passport. All I'm doing is presenting the facts in order to allow others to make their own choices.

 

 

 

According to Wikipedia the Passport Card can't be used for Barbados and Martinique. I was going by their list. You can read it. Of course their list could be wrong, I have found incorrect information on Wikipedia. You can read the list at the bottom of the article on Passport Cards. You are going by inference without looking it up. I would rather look it up.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Passport_Card

 

 

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Edited January 1, 2017 by Charles4515

[njhorseman]

According to Wikipedia the Passport Card can't be used for Barbados and Martinique. I was going by their list. You can read it. Of course their list could be wrong, I have found incorrect information on Wikipedia. You can read the list at the bottom of the article on Passport Cards. You are going by inference without looking it up. I would rather look it up.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Passport_Card

 

 

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Royal Caribbean, NCL, Carnival, Holland America, Princess and Celebrity, all of which offer cruises from various US ports that call on Barbados, make no notation in their travel document FAQs of an exception for Barbados that would disqualify the passport card as acceptable documentation for cruising to that country. Wouldn't you think at least one of those cruise lines would have noted that if it was true? I think we might of heard about at least one passenger being denied boarding after following the cruise lines' instructions. And i wasn't doing anything by inference. I rechecked the information published by each of those cruise lines.

 

Wikipedia is about the last place I would cite as an authoritative source for anything. Of course it is possible the information was accurate in the past, but no longer is. It's not as if there's some central authority at Wikipedia responsible for ensuring everything is current.

Edited January 2, 2017 by njhorseman

[Mom2mykids&cats]

My husband and I are traveling on Norwegian Dawn beginning next Sunday (whoo-HOO!), and we got the passport cards. I was planning to bring our birth certificates just in case, and from perusing this thread I will do that. Can't hurt, right?

[njhorseman]

My husband and I are traveling on Norwegian Dawn beginning next Sunday (whoo-HOO!), and we got the passport cards. I was planning to bring our birth certificates just in case, and from perusing this thread I will do that. Can't hurt, right?

 

Can't hurt, but can't help either. The passport card outranks a birth certificate as travel documentation. A passport card serves as both proof of citizenship and photo ID. A birth certificate merely shows where you were born.

[luvtheships]

It may seem that way but 36% of Americans have passports which means that 64% don't have them.

 

 

That statistic might be true but it doesn't take into consideration the US population demographics of those that are NOT ready/willing/able to leave the country in a way that REQUIRES a pp and remember there are 300 million plus people in the USA which includes....

 

Infants and young children

Elderly

Prisoners

Disabled

Those that refuse to fly

Those that refuse to leave the country (they do exist btw)

The list goes on...

 

I would think a statistical % that is more accurate would be....

 

What % of the US population that cruises on closed loop cruises where a pp is not a requirement have a pp?

 

Using your statistic approx 1/3 of the US population has a pp or about 100 million Americans

 

That means 100 million Americans can and do have a use for a pp

 

Large number in my mind considering you need to fall into a demographic of Americans that are ready willing and able to leave the country in a manner that requires a pp

 

Another important point is that to compare Americans with pp to Europeans with pp is ridiculous as it's not like we can drive to several foreign countries for a quick weekend

 

For many Europeans going to say the French or Italian riviera would be like north-easterners in the USA driving to cape cod for a long weekend

 

Their geography allows them a different level of travel than ours does

 

General % statistics are meaningless without further analysis is the point I'm making btw

 

 

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Edited January 2, 2017 by luvtheships

[sanger727]

That statistic might be true but it doesn't take into consideration the US population demographics of those that are NOT ready/willing/able to leave the country in a way that REQUIRES a pp and remember there are 300 million plus people in the USA which includes....

 

Infants and young children

Elderly

Prisoners

Disabled

Those that refuse to fly

Those that refuse to leave the country (they do exist btw)

The list goes on...

 

I would think a statistical % that is more accurate would be....

 

What % of the US population that cruises on closed loop cruises where a pp is not a requirement have a pp?

 

Using your statistic approx 1/3 of the US population has a pp or about 100 million Americans

 

That means 100 million Americans can and do have a use for a pp

 

Large number in my mind considering you need to fall into a demographic of Americans that are ready willing and able to leave the country in a manner that requires a pp

 

Another important point is that to compare Americans with pp to Europeans with pp is ridiculous as it's not like we can drive to several foreign countries for a quick weekend

 

For many Europeans going to say the French or Italian riviera would be like north-easterners in the USA driving to cape cod for a long weekend

 

Their geography allows them a different level of travel than ours does

 

General % statistics are meaningless without further analysis is the point I'm making btw

 

 

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To me that was the point. To most Europeaners the idea of not having a passport is unthinkable. And yes, many Americans are unwilling to leave the country. I don't think they were pointing to the statistic to say many people on cruises don't have passports, just passing on the fact that Americans, as a whole, tend not to have passports or travel internationally.

 

 

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[Charles4515]

To me that was the point. To most Europeaners the idea of not having a passport is unthinkable. And yes, many Americans are unwilling to leave the country. I don't think they were pointing to the statistic to say many people on cruises don't have passports, just passing on the fact that Americans, as a whole, tend not to have passports or travel internationally.

 

 

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Yes, that was the point. The figures were just a fact. It is known how many Americans there are and how many passports have been issued. Geography is the biggest reason the percent is smaller in the US than in Europe. Americans travel a lot but international borders that require Passports are distant. As for how many on closed loop cruises don't have a passport I don't have any facts on that. I would make a guess that the percentage of those on closed loop cruises who do have passports is high, over a majority. The cruise lines recommend a passport. Travel Agents recommend a passport.

 

 

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[phillyguy31]

With the money being spent on a cruise the extra expense of passports in small in comparison . Many of us buy travel insurance just in case and having a passport is the same thing. It may not be necessary but if you need to leave out of a foreign location it will make your return so much simpler and you pay for it once every 10 years a bargain in my opinion.

 

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[Jetlagged787]

Another important point is that to compare Americans with pp to Europeans with pp is ridiculous as it's not like we can drive to several foreign countries for a quick weekend

 

For many Europeans going to say the French or Italian riviera would be like north-easterners in the USA driving to cape cod for a long weekend

 

Their geography allows them a different level of travel than ours does

 

 

Just one minor correction. Any European, who is a citizen of any one of the 26 member states of the Schengen area, may move freely within that area. We have no borders, so no passport controls and no need for a passport. That is the reason that we can pop so easily to Spain for a tapas or up into the French or Swiss Alps for a weekend of skiing. The uninterrupted Schengen area stretched from Portugal in the west to Finland in the north and east and Greece in the south.

[luvtheships]

Just one minor correction. Any European, who is a citizen of any one of the 26 member states of the Schengen area, may move freely within that area. We have no borders, so no passport controls and no need for a passport. That is the reason that we can pop so easily to Spain for a tapas or up into the French or Swiss Alps for a weekend of skiing. The uninterrupted Schengen area stretched from Portugal in the west to Finland in the north and east and Greece in the south.

 

 

Yes I understand that but Americans need pp to leave the country unless it's a close loop cruise

 

We move freely among our states and US Carib territories but not to Canada or Mexico and flying is a bigger deal for us

 

I recently booked Paris to Rome for $65 including checked luggage we can't even fly NYC to Florida for that and yes I know we don't need a pp to fly to Florida

 

Point is in addition to my previous reasons as to why 2/3 of Americans don't have a pp is that it's basically too expensive for the most part for many of us to take a vacation where we need a pp

 

Another interesting little statistic to ponder is that the birth rate in the USA is in fact higher than in Europe so those babies make up a good portion of the 2/3 without a pp.

 

Fwiw I will travel regardless of my budget because I consider works travel a necessity

 

I know enough Europeans to know with a degree of certainty that there are not many who actually have more than 1 child

 

When we took our 4 girls to Italy and did several tours with Stefano of Rome cabs we discussed this at length and having 4 kids was very unusual

 

 

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Edited January 2, 2017 by luvtheships

[Lookingforfacts]

Cruise lines lobbied for the "closed loop" passport exception to accommodate infrequent travelers. Potential customers who might skip a cruise rather then go through the expense and The government and the cruise lines feel comfortable with the present rules. A cruise line could require a passport for a "closed loop" cruise if they felt it was necessary. AFAIK none require it.

 

In a perfect world passports are the best for the reasons mentioned by PP. BUT

 

People on CC cruise a lot. Think of a family planning a once in a lifetime trip. short of winning a contest they won't be taking any international trips in at least 10 years. Assume they're on a budget. $600 might be enough to pay for shore excursions. I'm thinking no outlay on whatever private island your ship uses. Self guided tours. Taxi or public transportation.

 

Get sick. Need to get home. US will give you whatever documentation you need to fly home. How many posters in this thread have personally missed their sailing? How many have stayed at port too long and watched their ship sail away from the dock? It happens due to poor planning. If I was on a budget I'd go for shore excursion over a passport. People talk about how much a cruise costs. Assume a family of 4 in an inside cabin. Assume they drive to the embarkation port. Assume they got a great price. Assume the 3rd and 4th passenger were free. The cost of passports is a significant portion of the total cost.

 

Posters on CC, not all, book suites, and balcony cabins. Some posters seem to be taking 2 and 3 cruises a year. The cost of a passport is insignificant, to those cruisers.

 

A ships officer removes the missing passengers passport from the safe and give to the port agent before the ship departs.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Lookingforfacts

[luckyinpa]

i got a passport card go to to bermuda. i'm not a traveler and full passport just isnt necessary

 

then i traveled with another adult and their 2 kids to bahamas and they all had birth certificates. it was a little more awkward at customs but never any issues. no way they wanted to pay for the passport documents given they dont travel

[WillandTam]

I have a question, my girlfriend and I are leaving February 12th on the Getaway and she doesn't have a passport. I've been on 17 cruises but have always traveled with a passport. This is her 1st cruise and i so want it to be perfect. She's been married twice. She has her birth certificate, current NC drivers license and both divorce decrees. She kept her first husband's name because of the kids. We need to know; what does she need to cruise? Thank everyone so much!

[ColinIllinois]

I have a question, my girlfriend and I are leaving February 12th on the Getaway and she doesn't have a passport. I've been on 17 cruises but have always traveled with a passport. This is her 1st cruise and i so want it to be perfect. She's been married twice. She has her birth certificate, current NC drivers license and both divorce decrees. She kept her first husband's name because of the kids. We need to know; what does she need to cruise? Thank everyone so much!

 

 

 

https://www.ncl.com/freestyle-cruise/cruise-travel-documents