Flowrider Lawsuit

[Domino D]

Yeah, all that has already been discussed.

 

1.... as if something like a flowrider has a perfect size or shape? Before the first flowrider, there was only no flowrider. After it was built there was the perfect flowrider? Evolution is not just for fish or monkeys.

 

2.... Other than being pop culture what the heck does anyone really care about the hot coffee case?

 

3.... have you ever seen a waiver where the people asking you to sign it... state. This is dangerous, when you get hurt we will pay you boat loads of money even if we did nothing wrong?

 

4.... Well if you can prove negligence then my guess is that most courts will ignore that portion of the waiver and pay you boat loads of money.

 

Thanks for playing... now how about you have it?

 

JC

Oh. No thank you. I'm good.

 

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[OSUZorba]

JC I have been on the ship and it was so wavy one pump stopped when it was low on water. When the ship rolled the chamber got water and the pump started again.

 

I have never seen RC operate the flowrider with only half of it operational. I have had a private rental when I was riding and the wave stopped on three occasions due to mechanical failure. The wave stopped and I stopped riding. From what I remember I fell onto the spring loaded mat, no injuries and no lawsuits. Ship maintenance came, fixed something in the mechanical room and I got an extra 25 minutes of ride time.

 

On a side note Flowhouse Manila or Bangkok has some videos on YouTube where they are riding on a full size land wave with only half of it operational. They seem to ride well on it. It might take some practice getting used to a smaller wave even though it was full size but it should be no different than riding on a small wave.

 

I've been on multiple ships that they've operated the wave with one pump inop. They don't allow standup, though, only boogie board.

Edited August 7, 2017 by OSUZorba

[A&L_Ont]

I've been on multiple ships that they've operated the wave with one pump inop. They don't allow standup, though, only boogie board.

 

In my orginal quote I wish I had included the following.

 

"I only stand-up rideand not boogie board. I have only once sailed on a Freedom Class Ship, with no wave issues on it. 99.9% of my riding is on Oasis Class ships and my experiences mainly relate to that class of ship. I have never seen RC have stand-up riding on a wave with 1 pump running".

 

In all sincerity I apologize for not having that portion included as you and Russ have both pointed out that boogie is allowed on the ships with only one pump working. I don't even think of boogie as I don't do it and the one time I was on a ship with one wave I was only there during stand-up.

[A&L_Ont]

1. You do realize that Royal has minimum height requirements to ride the FR, don't you? If having the "perfect" size and shape is irrelevant, then where did they get this minimum height requirement from? It's called physics. Yes, evolution in which lessons in safety are learned can be a good thing. For example, having the enough lifeboats onboard to accommodate everyone onboard is a very valuable lesson in safety that we learned from the Titanic.

 

2. To show that what something appears to be is not always what it is.

 

3. No.

 

4. It's already been determined that liability for negligence cannot be waived.

 

1. Is the perfect size about the rider or the size of the wave? I took JC's comment to mean the size of the flowrider. :confused:

[DirtyDawg]

Did this law suit get settled yet?

[xpcdoojk]

1. Is the perfect size about the rider or the size of the wave? I took JC's comment to mean the size of the flowrider. :confused:

 

Yes, I wasn't talking about evolution of human beings in the last 25 years or so of the flowrider's existence. :rolleyes:

 

I was asking how she and the weasel lawyers know what the correct size a flowrider should be? Of course I am sure that if they could increase the size of the landing area at the top to the size of a football field then nobody would ever hit the wall. :rolleyes:

 

I have done stand-up surfing on every class of ships in the RCI fleet. I have surfed the Navigator, the Independence, Liberty, Oasis, Anthem and Ovation, and I have only seen one person seriously hurt and that was on the Ovation, and that happened when the lady fell not at the impact with the wall. I have it on video and I still can't quite figure out how she broke her ankle because the fall was awkward but not hard. It just looked like she stepped off the board and crumpled. There is no accounting for the way bones break and ligaments tear.

 

JC

[A&L_Ont]

:confused:

Yes, I wasn't talking about evolution of human beings in the last 25 years or so of the flowrider's existence. :rolleyes:

 

I was asking how she and the weasel lawyers know what the correct size a flowrider should be? Of course I am sure that if they could increase the size of the landing area at the top to the size of a football field then nobody would ever hit the wall. :rolleyes:

 

I have done stand-up surfing on every class of ships in the RCI fleet. I have surfed the Navigator, the Independence, Liberty, Oasis, Anthem and Ovation, and I have only seen one person seriously hurt and that was on the Ovation, and that happened when the lady fell not at the impact with the wall. I have it on video and I still can't quite figure out how she broke her ankle because the fall was awkward but not hard. It just looked like she stepped off the board and crumpled. There is no accounting for the way bones break and ligaments tear.

 

JC

 

Thanks for the clarification JC. I totally misunderstood your point #1. As for the woman's ankle, who knows why?

 

We met a man who injured his leg on the boardwalk rope skipping with his son during the pirate festival. His wife told him not to but he did anyway and went down. He got back up and complained a bit but went on his way. We saw him later that day in a wheel chair and a cast on his leg. The fall didn't look bad in this case either, but the outcome wasn't good. :confused:

[Lordnlkon]

Really??? Give me a break

 

Agree. The complete inaccuracy of that statement is astounding. I've never seen in any of my cruises anything but the staff being completely safety conscious. I spend half my cruise at the flowrider.

[mil76]

Wow, a 7 month old, 100+ post thread on the Flowrider and this is my first post on it. At this rate I'm going to have my Flowrider junkie card revoked.

 

Yes, I wasn't talking about evolution of human beings in the last 25 years or so of the flowrider's existence. :rolleyes:

 

I was asking how she and the weasel lawyers know what the correct size a flowrider should be? Of course I am sure that if they could increase the size of the landing area at the top to the size of a football field then nobody would ever hit the wall. :rolleyes:

 

I have done stand-up surfing on every class of ships in the RCI fleet. I have surfed the Navigator, the Independence, Liberty, Oasis, Anthem and Ovation, and I have only seen one person seriously hurt and that was on the Ovation, and that happened when the lady fell not at the impact with the wall. I have it on video and I still can't quite figure out how she broke her ankle because the fall was awkward but not hard. It just looked like she stepped off the board and crumpled. There is no accounting for the way bones break and ligaments tear.

 

JC

 

The Flowrider I go to in Albuquerque has about 20 feet between the rail and the back wall. There's no way anyone is ever hitting that. The back wall injuries I have seen have been little kids doing Boogie Board and not jumping in over the rail, and the water slamming them into the back wall.

 

The only way to prevent that is to just do away with Boogie Board...;p

 

I recently got my big toenail completely back from a failed Shuvit on Oasis last October. I wonder how much I can get from RCL for that 8 months of pain and suffering :confused:?

[Lordnlkon]

Wow, a 7 month old, 100+ post thread on the Flowrider and this is my first post on it. At this rate I'm going to have my Flowrider junkie card revoked.

 

 

 

The Flowrider I go to in Albuquerque has about 20 feet between the rail and the back wall. There's no way anyone is ever hitting that. The back wall injuries I have seen have been little kids doing Boogie Board and not jumping in over the rail, and the water slamming them into the back wall.

 

The only way to prevent that is to just do away with Boogie Board...;p

 

I recently got my big toenail completely back from a failed Shuvit on Oasis last October. I wonder how much I can get from RCL for that 8 months of pain and suffering :confused:?

 

I broke a bone in my foot riding on the Liberty last September while practicing shuv-it's. That's gotta be worth millions.

[mil76]

I broke a bone in my foot riding on the Liberty last September while practicing shuv-it's. That's gotta be worth millions.

 

I just gotta figure out how to get a settlement of them installing a Flowrider in my backyard.

[Ocean Boy]

Almost everything about this thread is speculation, and speculating about speculation is not likely to reveal much truth.

 

Fact is, that I spend days and hours each cruise on the wave and I have never noticed a change in the force of the water. That leads me to believe that the truth is that it doesn't.

 

I think the onus is on those speculating it does. I, also, think that people who don't actually ride the wave have very little to go on and that would include the crappy lawyers trying to milk money out of someone.

 

The truth is out there, but rarely will ambulance chasing lawyers find it.

 

JC

It seems to me that most of the 1-800 lawyers I hear on TV talk about winning or losing cases and money. I've never heard them talk about truth.

[Lordnlkon]

I just gotta figure out how to get a settlement of them installing a Flowrider in my backyard.

 

 

Maybe we should contact that guy and make it a class action.

 

You get a flowrider and you get a flowrider.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Lordnlkon

[xpcdoojk]

:confused:

 

Thanks for the clarification JC. I totally misunderstood your point #1. As for the woman's ankle, who knows why?

 

We met a man who injured his leg on the boardwalk rope skipping with his son during the pirate festival. His wife told him not to but he did anyway and went down. He got back up and complained a bit but went on his way. We saw him later that day in a wheel chair and a cast on his leg. The fall didn't look bad in this case either, but the outcome wasn't good. :confused:

 

Andrew, I was agreeing with you with what you thought I meant. I was referring to the size of the flowrider, not the height requirements to ride it. Nor to the evolution of humans.

 

I was saying that flowriders have been around about 25 years or so, and nobody knows what the perfect size or shape a flowrider should be, because they have not yet built them all. Although like mil76 says if they have a 20 foot landing area or my suggestion of one the size of a football field nobody is ever going to hit the wall to find out if that makes them safer.

 

I have never seen an injury caused by hitting the wall. Most occur when the rider falls. Usually when the board whacks you because you are suddenly up hill of it and it is moving in your direction and you are not. That is where all those toenails and shins get hit.

 

The sports staff seems super concerned about safety, actually to an annoying degree. I have seen them do the safety demo and the next rider violate 2 or more safety highlights. People just don't pay attention, and once they are on the wave there is nothing the staff can do to make the person follow the rules.

 

JC

[xpcdoojk]

Maybe we should contact that guy and make it a class action.

 

I have never suffered an injury more than being sore, but I am willing to join your class action suit where I get a flowrider in my backyard, and I am willing to testify to anything you and the slip and fall lawyer want me to. Just send me a script and a flowrider.

 

JC

[mil76]

Although like mil76 says if they have a 20 foot landing area or my suggestion of one the size of a football field nobody is ever going to hit the wall to find out if that makes them safer.

 

JC

If Royal would have built them originally with the 20 foot landing zone, they all would have had a dry-dock by now and converted most of that area into "Superior Panoramic Flowriderview" Staterooms, and just used the proceeds to fund the ambulance chasers.

[xpcdoojk]

If Royal would have built them originally with the 20 foot landing zone, they all would have had a dry-dock by now and converted most of that area into "Superior Panoramic Flowriderview" Staterooms, and just used the proceeds to fund the ambulance chasers.

 

I would book those if we could have flowrider access when they were otherwise closed.

 

JC

[euphscott]

One fun thing to do if the operators let you (not on an RCCL ship of course), is stand on the wave surface before the jets start and have them start up the pump. Pretty easy to do. When you hear the 2nd pump about to go, Ollie from the side with the running water to the empty side and try to time it so that you land just as the water arrives under your board. Lots of fun if you time it right;). Thanks Mike for letting me try that (not on an RCCL ship).

 

Now THAT sounds fun!

[euphscott]

 

 

4. Do you realize that the waiver says they are not responsible, even if you are hurt by their negligence?

 

 

Have at it gang.

 

While you are at it - read through your entire Cruise Contract...

Yet millions of us risk life and limb to take a cruise...

[euphscott]

I recently got my big toenail completely back from a failed Shuvit on Oasis last October. I wonder how much I can get from RCL for that 8 months of pain and suffering :confused:?

 

 

My wife experienced this on Allure...she got free medical care and LOTS of phone calls to our cabin!

 

1 year later we were back at it on Navigator - fully aware of evils of the Flowrider and Royal Caribbean.

[Domino D]

While you are at it - read through your entire Cruise Contract...

Yet millions of us risk life and limb to take a cruise...

 

Yeah probably should have been clear about all this. It was late, and I was tired. I really don't care to enter this debate about whether or not lawsuits and people that file them are evil. I care even less about the Flowrider. No judgement, just not my thing. My kid did it once at an amusement park, when he wiped out, he lost is swimsuit, that's all I know. Yes I have video.

 

I'm sure you all don't care about this, but to be clear...

 

US law is 46 U.S.C. §30509, makes the waiver illegal because of the language saying you can not sue them even if they are at fault.You can Google it. It is the "even if we are at fault" that is the problem. The law is specific to operators of Passenger Ships that stop in any US port. The cruise ticket has a lot of language, but it does not include this specific type language, and it wouldn't matter if it did. For it's part, I am certain Royal felt this law would not apply to a waiver specific to a voluntary activity, especially when land based FlowRiders would use these waivers without issue. As Waterboy would say, Mama was wrong again. This would only apply to situations where a Royal employee did something wrong, allowed you to violate a rule, or there was a malfunction. In these cases, the person would not be barred from legal action even if they signed the waiver.

The other issue involving the waiver is the modification. While everyone is focused on, is the ride more dangerous because Royal shortened it, you are missing the other reason it was raised. Royal altered the design on their own, and installed the ride themselves. It is being argued that Royal Caribbean is now the "Manufacturer" of the ride. This is why you do not see Flowrider Inc. named as a co-defendant in the law suits. A manufacturer cannot indemnify them self from product liability. This is why companies pay so much for product liability insurance.

 

Again, I have no opinion on this. Not my money, not my problem.

 

(EDIT) I apologize for the "Have at it gang" remark. It was not intended the way it comes across when I read it back.

[Sail Mama]

1. Is the perfect size about the rider or the size of the wave? I took JC's comment to mean the size of the flowrider. :confused:

 

I also took JC's comment to be in reference to the Flowrider. The point that I am trying to make is there are other physical factors involved that need to be considered in liability.

[330searay]

Thanks for the insight Dom.

[xpcdoojk]

Yeah probably should have been clear about all this. It was late, and I was tired. I really don't care to enter this debate about whether or not lawsuits and people that file them are evil. I care even less about the Flowrider. No judgement, just not my thing. My kid did it once at an amusement park, when he wiped out, he lost is swimsuit, that's all I know. Yes I have video.

 

I'm sure you all don't care about this, but to be clear...

 

US law is 46 U.S.C. §30509, makes the waiver illegal because of the language saying you can not sue them even if they are at fault.You can Google it. It is the "even if we are at fault" that is the problem. The law is specific to operators of Passenger Ships that stop in any US port. The cruise ticket has a lot of language, but it does not include this specific type language, and it wouldn't matter if it did. For it's part, I am certain Royal felt this law would not apply to a waiver specific to a voluntary activity, especially when land based FlowRiders would use these waivers without issue. As Waterboy would say, Mama was wrong again. This would only apply to situations where a Royal employee did something wrong, allowed you to violate a rule, or there was a malfunction. In these cases, the person would not be barred from legal action even if they signed the waiver.

The other issue involving the waiver is the modification. While everyone is focused on, is the ride more dangerous because Royal shortened it, you are missing the other reason it was raised. Royal altered the design on their own, and installed the ride themselves. It is being argued that Royal Caribbean is now the "Manufacturer" of the ride. This is why you do not see Flowrider Inc. named as a co-defendant in the law suits. A manufacturer cannot indemnify them self from product liability. This is why companies pay so much for product liability insurance.

 

Again, I have no opinion on this. Not my money, not my problem.

 

(EDIT) I apologize for the "Have at it gang" remark. It was not intended the way it comes across when I read it back.

 

Again, lawyers without knowledge of the actual physical stuff.... The wall is not where injuries occur. They occur on the wave, more often than anywhere else. Usually when the board hits the person falling.

 

If they make the landing area at the top the size of a football field nobody will hit the wall, they might walk into it and get hurt, but the wall is not the real issue. Which is why I don't think their modification is the issue. Places that concern me on the wave are the top of the wave where it is not a trampoline any more, but a padded piece of structure. The top of the wave beyond the wave where it is a deck with holes for the water to return to the pumps is hard when you fall there you are going to feel it.

 

In my opinion (normally IMO or IMHO) the waves on the modified Explorer class ships are no more dangerous than the other waves. In fact on the Navigator the deck above the wave is padded better than the Oasis.

 

I appreciate your apology. Losing your swim trunks comes down to knots. Learn them they are your friend.

I actually always surf with my board shorts tied to my rash guard I have had zero wardrobe failures after something approaching a thousand rides.

 

My issue is with people who want to shut this down, because someone out of several thousands got hurt and hired a lawyer. It is inherently dangerous. If you don't want to get hurt, and you don't want to experience anything beyond a merry go round, please don't ride the flowrider. Actually when I was five I fell off a merry go round....

 

O, I forgot, it is not about you doing things it is about you stealing money. Sorry, back to your regular scheduled program.

 

JC

[toxicfairy]

I just don't get it at all. You chose to get on knowing you could possibly get hurt, then when you get hurt you sue? Wow I really do feel like I'm getting old or that I was raised on a far away planet and dropped off here...lol. Let me put this steaming hot coffee in my lap and drive. Let me get on this wave thingy and if I get hurt well. What happened to personal responsibility? Or well does ANYONE remember when common sense was Common?! The system is so tyed up with stupid law suits. Not saying the person didn't get hurt. But He had to have known there was a chance. Oh well my rant is over

 

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