Nieuw Amsterdam Group Booking - HUGE - Eliminates fixed dining and cuts open seating

[Cruiz'nBaers]

I would have been angry. One of the experiences we enjoy most about a cruise is having dinner in the MDR. Being told to eat in the Lido, if we can't make to the MDR by 6PM is unacceptable. I certainly hope that at the very least,HAL provided you with some kind of compensation. I feel that you did not receive the product that you purchased. I have heard about this group, or one just like them, on a previous thread, and would avoid cruising with them like the plague. We were on one cruise with a group of about 500 and they had a very small impact on us. But, a group that occupies 50% or more of any ship should be a charter,IMHO.

[Liz54]

Last year we were on a B2B and had this same group (900 psgrs) for the first week. Surprisingly, our dinner service wasn't affected, so maybe they were having early dinner, we didn't really know. All that week the bars were easy to access, happy hour was virtually empty, and the casinos were not very busy. We did learn from a few of the bar servers that this group who apparently shunned alcohol, had the staff servicing the mini-bars in the cabins almost run off their feet. Apparently some were doing 2 runs a day to make sure they were all kept full. Interesting what goes on behind closed doors . . . .

 

Smooth Sailing! :) :) :):)

 

Love the Minibar observation!!

I don't know why both seatings of fixed were cancelled and only early of open seating remained. Maybe it was more than 900-1200 people. Crowds that size should be required to charter.

[igraf]

It is just plain wrong to have a disruptive group that is the majority of the passengers. Probably two thirds in this case.

 

 

2nd that about the mini-bars. Hilarious!

 

igraf

 

 

 

Love the Minibar observation!!

I don't know why both seatings of fixed were cancelled and only early of open seating remained. Maybe it was more than 900-1200 people. Crowds that size should be required to charter.

Edited March 8, 2017 by igraf

[sammiedawg]

If any cruise line told me I must have dinner in the Lido It would be a long time before I booked with them again. Don't dilute your complaint by turning around and booking another cruise, especially on board.

 

I would ask my TA to lodge a formal complaint on my behalf.

[sail7seas]

We are experienced Princess cruisers who booked the NA for 2 weeks - February 19-March 5. We enjoy late fixed seating we had a lovely table for the first week. Mid cruise we were told that next week we could not be accommodated. The "choice" was open seating between 5.15 and 6.00 PM or go to the Lido Buffet.

The group booking was given as the reason. The ship's capacity is 2100 and the group was reported to be between 900 and 1200.

 

Needless to say this situation affected hundreds of people - all those wishing fixed dining AND any who wanted to use the dining room after 6.15.

 

The outcry was enormous and overwhelmed the staff who became rude in dealing with frustrated passengers.

 

This impacted everything on our cruise. The group were not drinkers or bar users so bar staff saw a drastic impact on their income. For everything else, - shows, lido dining, etc there were line ups. There was palpable tension between the 2 passenger groups.

 

We loved HAL in the first week but unsure if we can ever trust them with our cruising dollars again.

 

 

in

 

This is Awful and totally unacceptable,. In tyheir eed at grabbing a large group, theypaid no consideration or thought to all others who booked an paid to be on that sailing.

 

HAL has no defense for not making that large group charter the ship or go ELSEwehere. In their greed and eageerness tomake a huge proit for that week, they totally disregarded those not a part of the group. SO< this is how HAL now runs their c ruis eline.

 

There should never b e a roup that constirutes such a huge percentage of total guest count

 

THIS IS AWFUL, totally uunacceptable and no way does HAL have any good defense for booking such a large group. I can only imagine the uproarar as I feel my anger and anxierty abougt it just reading OP's post. I can only imagine if I was I aboard. :eek:

[OlsSalt]

Where would this group dining room decision get made and when. Seattle or onboard the ship by the Hotel Manager? Was it promised to the group when they signed up, or made on the fly after they arrived.

[OlsSalt]

Don't confuse my disagreeing with you with "can't see why". I think your assessment of the difference is wrong. All the criteria you listed apply to my examples. The main difference seems to be that you care more about such things when they affect cruises and I don't.

 

Thank you for explaining where you are coming from. So noted.

[Liz54]

Where would this group dining room decision get made and when. Seattle or onboard the ship by the Hotel Manager? Was it promised to the group when they signed up, or made on the fly after they arrived.

An important question. It was so badly executed that it is hard to believe that it was a considered decision by Seattle. Affected passengers who complained were told that an email went out before sailing explaining the situation, but I did not meet anyone who got the alleged email. Considering that HAL is mute on group cruises I think its unlikely an email went out.

Staff were caught in the middle and became rude and dismissive which adds to the picture of a decision on the fly.

[OlsSalt]

An important question. It was so badly executed that it is hard to believe that it was a considered decision by Seattle. Affected passengers who complained were told that an email went out before sailing explaining the situation, but I did not meet anyone who got the alleged email. Considering that HAL is mute on group cruises I think its unlikely an email went out.

Staff were caught in the middle and became rude and dismissive which adds to the picture of a decision on the fly.

 

Considering we did not even get our standard post-cruise evaluation by email after our own very recent NA cruise, something must be breaking down with HAL communications.

[Liz54]

Ha! We got ours. I will be responding but not through the multiple choice!:)

[OlsSalt]

One must also wonder if this group actually paid a premium to HAL when booking because HAL, or any ship, always wants to monetize as many of their auxiliary activities as possible. (bars, casinos, specially dining, shore excursions, spa, art auctions).

 

Though who knows, maybe HAL knew up they will make up any public activity room losses with these alleged increased mini-bar purchases. :cool:

[summersigh]

The list that Carol provides can be very helpful. If the group is large they will usually take over late set seating on upper level. Last year there was an Inspirations Group of 900 that resulted in the MDR being limited to 6:30 or earlier for others. Our cruise had only 700, no late set seating, we were able to dine at 8PM I believe I counted 12 Alaska Inspirations Groups this year .

Good Luck!

If anyone comes across a cruise with a large group that's not on Carol's list - post the information on the thread and she will add it to the list.

 

I was booking a HAL cruise 9 months out and saw late fixed seating was already unavailable. I posted a thread here on the HAL boards and some kind regulars helped with researching what was up. Turns out there was a huge group from a political magazine booked. I posted to Carol and immediately changed my booking :D

[VTcruisenut]

Here is a warning for one group that will soon be taking over the NA - they expect 2000 to sign up so should one assume will this be a full ship "charter" and not just a mega group that takes over expected regular passenger venues for their own exclusive use?.

https://cruisinwiththemonkey.com

OH MY ! Just saw this! we sail the 18th, same itinerary- they will be one day behind us!

[OlsSalt]

If anyone comes across a cruise with a large group that's not on Carol's list - post the information on the thread and she will add it to the list.

 

I was booking a HAL cruise 9 months out and saw late fixed seating was already unavailable. I posted a thread here on the HAL boards and some kind regulars helped with researching what was up. Turns out there was a huge group from a political magazine booked. I posted to Carol and immediately changed my booking :D

 

That in retrospect was a huge red warning light clue. I never made the connection. Thanks for alerting us to this. However, this is not fair notice to regular passengers of this huge block of affinity group passengers for that particular voyage.

 

Will HAL, at any level, disclose up front whether there is a large group commitment on any cruise?

[Roz]

When a group gets that big, I think HAL (or any other cruise line) should have a policy that the group needs to charter the entire ship.

 

Roz

[sail7seas]

That in retrospect was a huge red warning light clue. I never made the connection. Thanks for alerting us to this. However, this is not fair notice to regular passengers of this huge block of affinity group passengers for that particular voyage.

 

Will HAL, at any level, disclose up front whether there is a large group commitment on any cruise?

 

Even if asked directly, HAL (and most OTHER C ruise lines) do not disclose if they have a larrge group on a given sailingf.

[sail7seas]

i am intrested what front office, Guest Relations Manager said to complnauing guests about the dining situation? THAT is a b ig complaint and engtirely legi]timate IMO> To be denied a seat in the Mdr at dfinner t IS A BIG DEAL.

How did Guest Relations Manager handle it?

Edited March 8, 2017 by sail7seas

[OVgirl]

We were also on the B2B cruise starting on Feb. 19. Both weeks had a gospel music group onboard. During the first week the 'group' made absolutely no negative impact on the other passengers (not sure of the size). But boy did that change for the second week.

 

We were told that the group was about 1200 people. We saw ship staff all over having a very hard time dealing with irate passengers who were affected by this group. Spoke to one of the officers who said that a group this large should never have been booked on a regular cruise. If you look at the numbers, they had enough passengers to fill one of HAL's smaller ships.

 

We had booked open seating in the diningroom and were told that for the second week, we would have to eat no later than 6pm. Or choose another dining venue. We generally go early to dinner, so that didn't impact us too much. I did overhear members of the group who also didn't like the fact that they were forced to eat at late seating.

 

They also had a concert in the showroom everyday that finished about 10 minutes before the regular entertainment. When that many people leave the theatre and all head to the diningroom, there is a line the full length of the ship. Quite a sight and really made you realize just how big this group was. If you planned on getting from one end of the ship to the other at that time, it was best to use one of the other decks or go earlier.

 

And then of course the chatting as they stood in line along the Explorers Lounge where Adagio was performing. Not much consideration for the performance or the people trying to enjoy it.

 

I think this was a very good example of the pencil pushers in high places making decisions without knowing the impact on other passengers or even on their own staff members. The employees were left to fend for themselves and for some, it wasn't pretty.

 

I'm sure I've forgotten some of the things impacted on this cruise, but just know that it was pretty bad.

 

PS. smoking area was not busy for that second week.

[summersigh]

Will HAL, at any level, disclose up front whether there is a large group commitment on any cruise?

I don't think they ever will - which makes Carol's work all the more important ... THANK YOU CAROL !!!!! :D

 

 

the link again in case anyone missed it:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2430548

[sail7seas]

Even if asked directlly, HAL will not dislose if there is a large group booked on a given sailing.

[whogo]

Where would this group dining room decision get made and when. Seattle or onboard the ship by the Hotel Manager? Was it promised to the group when they signed up, or made on the fly after they arrived.

I would bet that Holland American and the group organizers arranged for showroom use, group dining, and any other perks in advance.

 

 

Once again, "As You Wish" fails as a slogan for HAL's dining options. I would send marketing info with the "As You Wish" claim with any letters of complaint that I sent to Holland America.

 

 

I am not much of a drinker, but in a situation like that I would be tempted to carry an open bottle of beer everywhere.

[bUU]

One must also wonder if this group actually paid a premium to HAL when booking because HAL, or any ship, always wants to monetize as many of their auxiliary activities as possible. (bars, casinos, specially dining, shore excursions, spa, art auctions).

 

Though who knows, maybe HAL knew up they will make up any public activity room losses with these alleged increased mini-bar purchases. :cool:

It surely didn't seem like a booking that the cruise line would SEEK. However, it seems like illegal discrimination to punish paying customers who accept an offer you've made to the public, especially if the reason is somewhat related to their religious convictions regarding alcohol and gambling.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[OlsSalt]

It surely didn't seem like a booking that the cruise line would SEEK. However, it seems like illegal discrimination to punish paying customers who accept an offer you've made to the public, especially if the reason is somewhat related to their religious convictions regarding alcohol and gambling.

.

 

Good point. No one is obligated to pay anything more than the agreed up front cruise price. Wonder if there are rental charges for exclusive room use or are they just thrown in for free.

 

Maybe potential room use rentals made this large group booking a cost-benefit tradeoff in the eyes of HAL beancounters, who do have to make it all come out in the end, voluntary extras or not.

 

And how is this booking, on the face of it, any different than travel agencies reserving whole blocks of cabins, to later distribute out to individual passengers. Or when RoadScholars or Knitting Clubs do group reservations and have exclusive use of the smaller public rooms.

 

There is probably an ideal size and a non-ideal size for this sort of group booking. Looks like 1000 plus is where this sort of non-charter group booking is too much.

 

Which gets down to booking certain life-style cruises groups too - when does their presence become problematic to the general cruise passenger no matter how large or small the life-style group in fact is. When it is discriminatory to turn them down too?

 

You raised interesting issues with the group discrimination argument.

[bUU]

Wonder if there are rental charges for exclusive room use or are they just thrown in for free.

Or if there is some standard fee schedule, such as if someone decides to get married at sea with a friend officiating.

 

And how is this booking, on the face of it, any different than travel agencies reserving whole blocks of cabins, to later distribute out to individual passengers.

Do we even know whether the bookings were made direct or made through an agent or reseller?

 

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[bd1958]

When we booked our current cruise (NA March 26-april 2) I specifically asked our HAL Cruise Consultant if there was a charter or big group on our cruise. She said she couldn't tell specifically (HAL apparently doesn't even let them know!) but she did say that when a big group reserves it will show up as a block on certain dining options. There was none and we booked with confidence. It seems there is a small group on our cruise so no big deal.

 

I really appreciate the thread on this site that enabled us to be informed and confirm that this sort of disaster doesn't happen on our vacation.

 

I hear that some are not bothered by such a thing...but as a gay person to be surrounded by a bunch of religious fundamentalists...it would be a HUGE issue. Not to mention the basic functions of the ship being disrupted.

 

I believe HAL deserves to be pressured to keep passengers informed. I'm going to contact them directly.

 

Bruce