NCL Cruise Service Charge Refund

[Something fun!]

[Seminole1975]

Some more transparency would help - again I cite the old Carnival (not sure if they even do this) ways where they break down DSC and say how much each job category gets. That alone would go a really long way towards public confidence.

 

But - it's great to have a forum like this that people who DO wonder (and it's my money, why shouldn't I ask questions?) can ask questions and get legitimate answers, rather than being bashed for daring to question the sacred cow.

 

I agree. I have found this thread very interesting. I have learned a lot on CC. I am not at all against asking questions, as I am making unfounded statements without evidence. I do not like accusations without evidence. That could border on slander. And I personally try my best not to bash people. Let them remove their DSC all they want for whatever reason they want. Does not affect me or mine one way or another.

 

I had not really thought about all this before. Sometime soon, I am going to investigate this with my "man on the ship" even tho he does not get tips (except in the form of advice-ha). He interacts with and is friends with people who do (supposedly) get the benefits of the DSC. I guess this is why I care so much.

 

Come to think about it during his first contract, I told one of the NCL reps on the phone, when I was making reservations, that I would have a family member who was in a show on the ship. I was looking into the Friends and Family discount. The rep asked me if my son was going to get tips, which I thought was a weird question at the time. I told him that he was not to my knowledge getting tips. And he does not. Just thought that was interesting, but it speaks to the information that some crew members get tips, I think from the DSC.

 

In fact their show got voted #1 in the NCL fleet recently. I think all he got was a certificate and the opportunity to meet with the Captain and the officers. And the satisfaction of knowing they are the best. Which is great! The entertainers get paid quite well.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Seminole1975

[erdoran]

I agree. I have found this thread very interesting. But I do not like accusations without evidence.

Nor do I, which is why I was looking for data. Accusations have been made on the thread I originally cited, I was looking for evidence for or against--the evidence against which was presented was valid and credible. Better to ask for data and review it critically and make an informed decision than to wonder and perhaps make a wrong decision as a result.

[jb456]

It’s your choice to play along. You can remove the DSC too you know. But hey thanks, we enjoy the discount!

 

So what's the recent process to remove the dsc? Anyone?

 

Did they go back to adjusting it while on board? Or they still making you fill that silly forum and then you have to wait for a refund on your cc?

[Seminole1975]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just don't want to remove it based on misinformation--but the material I read is very convincing. https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=298 read the comments, not the CC article, that's my reason for really questioning the PROPER DSC distribution. I'm open to being wrong.

 

I understand wanting to give staff their tips directly. I understand not wanting to pay for crew not on your ship. I understand the argument of maybe taking away the DSC and raising the fares :o This article however makes different points about why you might want to remove the DSC and why you might want to keep the DSC. It is then followed by a lot of passengers from CC reporting what certain crew said and what they heard. Unless I missed something it is all basically anecdotal evidence from passengers. Now if an NCL whistle blower or disgruntled employee exposed them or something along that line, that would be a different story.

 

NCL says that they use the DSC for incentive programs. It is written in black and white in the FAQ and probably in the terms of our contracts. We can take it away if we want to. I understand not agreeing with it and doing your own thing, but I have yet to see any hard evidence stating that they are not doing what they say they are. Where are the lawsuits? Where is 60 minutes?! Is it all a big coverup? A conspiracy?

 

Ya'll do what you want. It's your money, your cruise of course. Use whatever rationale you want to either pay or not pay the DSC. Fine by me but I still am not convinced NCL is not doing what they say they are as far as the DSC is concerned. I just don't think they could get away with it for very long.

[NLH Arizona]

I just don't think they could get away with it for very long.

You would think if they weren't doing what they say they are doing all these 18 years, it would have come to light many, many years ago.

[Seminole1975]

You would think if they weren't doing what they say they are doing all these 18 years, it would have come to light many, many years ago.

 

Thank you!

[sleepbestonships]

Here is the link to the PDF for the NCL guest ticket contract: https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/NCL_Guest_Ticket_Contract_041818.pdf

 

Here is the relevant passage about DSC:

© Service Charges: Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salaryand incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest. The charge ,which is automatically added to your onboard account and subject to adjustment at your discretion, isintended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employeesaccording to Carrier's evaluation of job performance. A portion of the service charge collected by Carrieris also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs.

 

Finding original documents instead of relying on conjecture/rumor is just a matter of looking in the right place.

[graphicguy]

@Seminole1975 .....If I’m not mistaken, isn’t your son in Million Dollar Quartet?

 

That’s some of the best entertainment I have ever seen.......anywhere!

[Seminole1975]

@Seminole1975 .....If I’m not mistaken, isn’t your son in Million Dollar Quartet?

 

That’s some of the best entertainment I have ever seen.......anywhere!

 

Yes and thank you. He plays Carl Perkins and is the Stage Captain. From everything he says NCL is a stickler for the rules. For him (an actor and musician) it's like being in the Navy. It has not always been easy, but they have been a very good employer for him. Of course he is doing a good job and follows the rules. They expect that from all of their employees. I have found all the employees I have met to be very professional. From everything I hear and see, I just cannot believe NCL is not doing what they say they do.

 

This thread has taken a turn, but I just could not let it go when folks were saying NCL was lying about what they do with the DSC. There is no proof of that-on this thread anyway.

[erdoran]

Here is the link to the PDF for the NCL guest ticket contract: https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/NCL_Guest_Ticket_Contract_041818.pdf

 

Here is the relevant passage about DSC:

© Service Charges: Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest. The charge ,which is automatically added to your onboard account and subject to adjustment at your discretion, isintended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employeesaccording to Carrier's evaluation of job performance. A portion of the service charge collected by Carrieris also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs.

 

Finding original documents instead of relying on conjecture/rumor is just a matter of looking in the right place.

 

Thanks - believe it or not, this more or less confirms what's been said. Let's put it together:

1. Do the people who made my vacation wonderful get more $ if I pay my DSC than if I don't? (ie does it act as a direct tip to them?)

 

A: © Service Charges: The charge ,... is intended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employees according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance.

Translation: NO, my steward doesn't get a tip from my DSC. It goes into a pot, and NCL decides how much the steward gets. Where my DSC makes a difference is it makes that pot bigger.

2. Does NCL use my DSC to pay salaries?

A: c) Service Charges: Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest.

Language is vague. It's unclear whether the salary is funded "in part" by DSC; incentive programs clearly are. I would read that the salary is as well but am not certain.

3. Is my DSC only used to reward staff on my ship?

A: A portion of the service charge collected by Carrier is also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs.

No, it doesn't stay on my ship.

===========

I didn't go to this even though I had read it previously simply because I thought it was vague - but I was looking for it to say unequivocally that my DSC went directly to my staff on my ship. Clearly it doesn't.

So what can we conclude?

1. The DSC staff on your ship, as a whole, benefit from the size of the DSC pot (assumption) and NCL, not you, decide who gets how much. It's unclear what the ratio of salary to incentive is from your DSC.

2. Some unknown percentage of the DSC leaves your ship and goes to the fleet.

3. Speculation based on assumptions and anecdotes: staff with a lower percentage of DSC-paying guests get a lower share of the DSC pot. However, my other assumption is that removing DSC is also random, so if it is based on a guests choosing not to pay for non-performance reasons, then the removal is too random to affect any individual employee - but it does impact all employees due to the smaller DSC pot to be shared.

Thanks for the motivation to read this, I should have analyzed it before.

Any disagreements with the above interpretation? It explains:

1. How removing a DSC impacts revenue for all tipped staff

2. Why some of the rumors that have been floating around make sense (fleet-wide stuff)

3. Your staff get zero immediately and directly out of the DSC but, based on NCL's performance assessment, benefit longer term...so probably a great review and a hero card are as important to them as your DSC is.

GREAT discussion when folks are willing to talk instead of flame!

[erdoran]

Yes and thank you. He plays Carl Perkins and is the Stage Captain. From everything he says NCL is a stickler for the rules. For him (an actor and musician) it's like being in the Navy. It has not always been easy, but they have been a very good employer for him. Of course he is doing a good job and follows the rules. They expect that from all of their employees. I have found all the employees I have met to be very professional. From everything I hear and see, I just cannot believe NCL is not doing what they say they do.

 

This thread has taken a turn, but I just could not let it go when folks were saying NCL was lying about what they do with the DSC. There is no proof of that-on this thread anyway.

 

 

PS - I never said "lying" (I hope) - I said I was concerned that my staff don't get my DSC and I wanted to be sure they were properly compensated. Very different statement.

 

Congratulations on your son's job!! DH is a drummer and we'd both love for him to get a cruise ship gig but we also both know it isn't happening :> Your son is living our dream!

[graphicguy]

Yes and thank you. He plays Carl Perkins and is the Stage Captain. From everything he says NCL is a stickler for the rules. For him (an actor and musician) it's like being in the Navy. It has not always been easy, but they have been a very good employer for him. Of course he is doing a good job and follows the rules. They expect that from all of their employees. I have found all the employees I have met to be very professional. From everything I hear and see, I just cannot believe NCL is not doing what they say they do.

 

This thread has taken a turn, but I just could not let it go when folks were saying NCL was lying about what they do with the DSC. There is no proof of that-on this thread anyway.

 

 

How cool! He was great! I’M SURE YOU’RE QUITE PROUD!

 

Not sure where this whole conspiracy thing started. NCL has been a great company that I continue to spend my vacation dollars with. I have seen zero evidence that they’re trying to shaft their employees or their customers.

 

I’ve never talked to any of their staff and crew that’s given any indication they weren’t happy to work for NCL.

 

I’ll be seeing your son’s show again next month!

[Seminole1975]

Say hi to him for me! I will be seeing him in October!!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[graphicguy]

Say hi to him for me! I will be seeing him in October!!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Will do! :)

[sleepbestonships]

Erdoran- I agree with your analysis.

 

The risks of removing your DSC are two fold:

1. It is possible that it could try to be correlated with a particular staff member and hurt their performance review (but I would hope only if there was a pattern of DSC removed consistently for particular "up front" staff over time. I don't think it would be too hard to aggregate data matching cabin stewards with DSC removals and anything too far out of the norm could be attributed to a particular staff. This should not hurt a staff member so long as the group of people removing DSC are truly random.

 

2. If removal of DSC began to be more common, then eventually it would force a change to the pricing for the cruises. Perhaps that would be welcome to many people. No doubt cruiselines have done their market research and this method of making the service charge discretionary is better for the bottom line because people see a lower cruise price up front (so are more likely to book it) and most people don't remove the DSC.

 

I suppose a third possible downside is that the removal of DSC is likely noted on our customer profiles and their could be mild ramifications (less likely to get that upgrade, perhaps).

 

Personally, I see it as the current social agreement to which I have agreed. I may not like it, but not playing by the rules has potential consequences. It reminds me of some meme I saw where a parent at back to school night said she did not bother buying any of the school supplies, because they were all just aggregated anyway, and if her child could not have the particular supplies, she was just not going to buy any supplies.

[RDC1]

Thanks - believe it or not, this more or less confirms what's been said. Let's put it together:

1. Do the people who made my vacation wonderful get more $ if I pay my DSC than if I don't? (ie does it act as a direct tip to them?)

 

A: © Service Charges: The charge ,... is intended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employees according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance.

Translation: NO, my steward doesn't get a tip from my DSC. It goes into a pot, and NCL decides how much the steward gets. Where my DSC makes a difference is it makes that pot bigger.

2. Does NCL use my DSC to pay salaries?

A: c) Service Charges: Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest.

Language is vague. It's unclear whether the salary is funded "in part" by DSC; incentive programs clearly are. I would read that the salary is as well but am not certain.

3. Is my DSC only used to reward staff on my ship?

A: A portion of the service charge collected by Carrier is also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs.

No, it doesn't stay on my ship.

===========

I didn't go to this even though I had read it previously simply because I thought it was vague - but I was looking for it to say unequivocally that my DSC went directly to my staff on my ship. Clearly it doesn't.

So what can we conclude?

1. The DSC staff on your ship, as a whole, benefit from the size of the DSC pot (assumption) and NCL, not you, decide who gets how much. It's unclear what the ratio of salary to incentive is from your DSC.

2. Some unknown percentage of the DSC leaves your ship and goes to the fleet.

3. Speculation based on assumptions and anecdotes: staff with a lower percentage of DSC-paying guests get a lower share of the DSC pot. However, my other assumption is that removing DSC is also random, so if it is based on a guests choosing not to pay for non-performance reasons, then the removal is too random to affect any individual employee - but it does impact all employees due to the smaller DSC pot to be shared.

Thanks for the motivation to read this, I should have analyzed it before.

Any disagreements with the above interpretation? It explains:

1. How removing a DSC impacts revenue for all tipped staff

2. Why some of the rumors that have been floating around make sense (fleet-wide stuff)

3. Your staff get zero immediately and directly out of the DSC but, based on NCL's performance assessment, benefit longer term...so probably a great review and a hero card are as important to them as your DSC is.

GREAT discussion when folks are willing to talk instead of flame!

 

 

Pretty much on the ball. A few additional comments:

 

1. No real clarification if they get to keep direct tips if DSC is removed (on other lines they have to turn the money in, unclear about NCL)

2. The overall size of the pool is impacted by removal.

3. While individual removals would be fairly random and probably do not impact the ratings on an individual crew member. If they were to show a higher rate of removals over time, I would not be surprised if red flags are raised and a potential impact of rating might result.

[SeaShark]

Thanks - believe it or not, this more or less confirms what's been said. Let's put it together:

1. Do the people who made my vacation wonderful get more $ if I pay my DSC than if I don't? (ie does it act as a direct tip to them?)

 

A: © Service Charges: The charge ,... is intended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employees according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance.

Translation: NO, my steward doesn't get a tip from my DSC. It goes into a pot, and NCL decides how much the steward gets. Where my DSC makes a difference is it makes that pot bigger.

2. Does NCL use my DSC to pay salaries?

A: c) Service Charges: Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest.

Language is vague. It's unclear whether the salary is funded "in part" by DSC; incentive programs clearly are. I would read that the salary is as well but am not certain.

3. Is my DSC only used to reward staff on my ship?

A: A portion of the service charge collected by Carrier is also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs.

No, it doesn't stay on my ship.

===========

I didn't go to this even though I had read it previously simply because I thought it was vague - but I was looking for it to say unequivocally that my DSC went directly to my staff on my ship. Clearly it doesn't.

So what can we conclude?

1. The DSC staff on your ship, as a whole, benefit from the size of the DSC pot (assumption) and NCL, not you, decide who gets how much. It's unclear what the ratio of salary to incentive is from your DSC.

2. Some unknown percentage of the DSC leaves your ship and goes to the fleet.

3. Speculation based on assumptions and anecdotes: staff with a lower percentage of DSC-paying guests get a lower share of the DSC pot. However, my other assumption is that removing DSC is also random, so if it is based on a guests choosing not to pay for non-performance reasons, then the removal is too random to affect any individual employee - but it does impact all employees due to the smaller DSC pot to be shared.

Thanks for the motivation to read this, I should have analyzed it before.

Any disagreements with the above interpretation? It explains:

1. How removing a DSC impacts revenue for all tipped staff

2. Why some of the rumors that have been floating around make sense (fleet-wide stuff)

3. Your staff get zero immediately and directly out of the DSC but, based on NCL's performance assessment, benefit longer term...so probably a great review and a hero card are as important to them as your DSC is.

GREAT discussion when folks are willing to talk instead of flame!

 

 

To be perfectly honest, you should change #2 to read:

2. Some unknown percentage of the DSC leaves your ship and goes to the fleet. Likewise, some unknown percentage of the DSC collected leaves the rest of the fleet and goes to your ship.

[aimish]

OP...Several years ago, I went on a cruise (not NCL) that was just awful. I swear, this is not all that happened....They lost my luggage for a day and a half, water in our cabin stopped working several times, we had a broken virtual balcony (that blared out static for two days and we couldn’t sleep), despite numerous phone calls and in-person requests to fix it, they charged my debit card and overdrew my bank account, despite my having given them a different cc to charge before boarding, it took 3 1/2 hours (no joke) to check-in at the pier because they screwed up our cabin keys, they didn’t honor our dinner reservation so we had to wait 1 1/2 hours to eat, our cabins weren’t ready until after dinner the first day, and worst of all, the cabins that their rep booked us in specifically because they were across the hall from each other, were literally no where near each other in reality. I did not adjust the DSC. Instead I wrote an angry letter (the first and only time I’ve ever done this) to the cruise line when I got home and received over $1,200 towards another sailing. Just something to think about.

[erdoran]

Erdoran- I agree with your analysis.

 

The risks of removing your DSC are two fold:

1. It is possible that it could try to be correlated with a particular staff member and hurt their performance review (but I would hope only if there was a pattern of DSC removed consistently for particular "up front" staff over time. I don't think it would be too hard to aggregate data matching cabin stewards with DSC removals and anything too far out of the norm could be attributed to a particular staff. This should not hurt a staff member so long as the group of people removing DSC are truly random.

 

2. If removal of DSC began to be more common, then eventually it would force a change to the pricing for the cruises. Perhaps that would be welcome to many people. No doubt cruiselines have done their market research and this method of making the service charge discretionary is better for the bottom line because people see a lower cruise price up front (so are more likely to book it) and most people don't remove the DSC.

 

I suppose a third possible downside is that the removal of DSC is likely noted on our customer profiles and their could be mild ramifications (less likely to get that upgrade, perhaps).

Personally, I see it as the current social agreement to which I have agreed. I may not like it, but not playing by the rules has potential consequences. It reminds me of some meme I saw where a parent at back to school night said she did not bother buying any of the school supplies, because they were all just aggregated anyway, and if her child could not have the particular supplies, she was just not going to buy any supplies.

Very well put. Kinda like tipping in restaurants, especially when you have barely adequate service.

 

PS I could care less about a pricing change. Doesn't matter to me if I pay a $200 DSC or my fare increases by $200. As long as the total mandatory cost (I consider DSC mandatory) stays the same I don't care what the line items are called. I would also anticipate the increase would be LESS than the $200 because now all the DSC-removers won't be able to do that, so there will be a big revenue boost from 100% DSC payment. Remember, they do that now in the UK, right? No DSC but higher fares. I haven't bothered to figure out if the UK fare is US plus DSC, and it may be different anyway because of international factors we don't understand.

Edited August 13, 2018 by erdoran

[erdoran]

To be perfectly honest, you should change #2 to read:

2. Some unknown percentage of the DSC leaves your ship and goes to the fleet. Likewise, some unknown percentage of the DSC collected leaves the rest of the fleet and goes to your ship.

thanks, you are right...although it is "may leave" and "may go to".

 

This has been excellent learning for me, and may well be useful to other cruisers, especially the ones like myself, who do want to do the "right thing" for those who made our vacations special (as said on CC repeatedly) but who have a hard time reconciling mandatory "tips" with their opinion of tipping. I may post this up on a new thread.

 

One positive about DSC rather than envelopes (other than I really hated those envelopes!) is that with the envelope system, I always felt like I had a dollar sign tattooed between my shoulderblades, and every interaction was all about how big the tip would be. The DSC really removes that for the most part, since extra tips are (supposedly) relatively infrequent and the crew know they are more or less guaranteed their DSC "tip" from the majority of the pax. This brings it down to doing their best to perform to increase their share of the pot, but it's less about the direct interaction with pax to maximize the tip and more about doing a really good job, since I'm sure their job performance is evaluated based on their pax interactions AND other behind the scenes factors that pax don't see.

 

However, it is clear that there is NOT a 1:1 on your DSC payment and your staff. I'm not advocating removal, and I am not going to remove and direct tip, I get it now, but that is the outcome and knowledge. So it does boil down to "if you want specific crew members to be directly and immediately rewarded, give them an extra tip or commend them in some way (hero card? or other positive writeup?) to their management". Those are the only means by which you can financially acknowledge "above and beyond" service. And a "thank you" and respectful treatment should be absolutes.

 

Thanks again all for a very POSITIVE and constructive discussion. Isn't this much more effective than the automatic "terrible person, cheapskate" canned response for someone who questions the DSC? Knowledge is power!

Edited August 13, 2018 by erdoran

[Two Wheels Only]

Remember, they do that now in the UK, right? No DSC but higher fares. I haven't bothered to figure out if the UK fare is US plus DSC, and it may be different anyway because of international factors we don't understand.

Fares in the UK are US plus more than the service charges (DSC, UBP/UOB, SDP) in nearly every case. It's difficult to do an exact comparison since there are differences, though.

[Got No Real Name]

The short version of all of this is "WHO CARES?" Pay the DSC and if you have some reason to think the crew does not deserve it then fill out the form (or whatever the method du Jour is) to ask for it back. No need to go through all these absurd justifications to make yourself feel better or look better in someone else's eyes. No one else cares if you refund the DSC, no one cares how much you tip (if any) and you not impressing anyone by tipping 'better' than the next guy. Dad was right, people get silly about money matters.

[graphicguy]

The short version of all of this is "WHO CARES?" Pay the DSC and if you have some reason to think the crew does not deserve it then fill out the form (or whatever the method du Jour is) to ask for it back. No need to go through all these absurd justifications to make yourself feel better or look better in someone else's eyes. No one else cares if you refund the DSC, no one cares how much you tip (if any) and you not impressing anyone by tipping 'better' than the next guy. Dad was right, people get silly about money matters.

 

BRAVO.......!!!!!

 

Pretty incredible the amount of and kind of gyrations some in here will go through to make themselves feel better about removing the TIPs/DSC....whatever you want to call them.

 

If you feel your service was poor, go to the service desk and change the DSC. Don’t tip anything extra at the bars and restaurants. You don’t need to justify it to us. That’s between you and the customer service agents/crew/staff on board.

 

May I make a suggestion? If you’re going to remove the DSC, help the offending party understand how they fell below your expectations and tell them face to face you are removing the DSC, and tell them why.

[Love my butler]

After all the discussion, the fact remains tipping in cash is the best policy for the crew. No vague terms from NCL, just cold hard cash in their pocket. I get it, some people are lazy and like to just use the Discretionary Service Charge. That's fine, but don't disparage those that choose to tip with cash. Cash is king.