Rhine water levels 2018 and similar topics

[BillPizzaiolo]

She was the middle ship we swapped with a week and a half ago. Beautifully appointed great staff you’ll Love it for sure. Have a blast. 

[notamermaid]

We have had a splendid 24 hours of celebrating seeing ships going through the gorge, well, at least the arrows on marinetraffic. And what a relief it must be to read that even the biggest ships are moving. I still remember seeing my river cruise ship welcoming me in the harbour in Passau.

 

Now to realism. Most of you will have realized by now that the river levels are so variable, this year more than in others, that sailing in comfort for the rest of the season is still not a given despite the recent rise in river levels.

 

First the current levels: Maxau 365cm, Kaub 56cm, Koblenz 59cm. Emmerich by the way, is slowly showing signs of recovery, now at 19cm.

 

The statistics for the month of October are out and they are not good. The month has been warmer than average - which is not too bad - but with it comes the fact that it has hardly been raining. It is the strange weather situation which is stuck over Europe this Autumn. This is the map for all of Germany: https://www.wetterkontor.de/de/wetter/deutschland/monatswerte-niederschlag.asp?y=2018&m=10

Just to explain: the black figures are the precipitation in litres per square metre. The figures underneath are the percentages compared to the mean average over 30 years. In pink are the ones that differ a lot from the mean. 12%, 13% is shockingly low but it was even worse in Worms on the Rhine. News said this evening that Worms only got 8% of the average rainfall this October.

 

Not much rain is forecast for the next few days, it is going to stay mild in the Rhine valley. So the drought is not over yet.

 

The situation reminded me of an eerie place. I hope we will not get a desert anywhere in Germany, like they do in the UK. "UK, that wet island in the North Sea?", I here you ask. Correct! In Kent, which calls itself the Garden of England, is a strange place that is officially a shingle desert: https://unusualplaces.org/dungeness-united-kingdoms-desert/

 

And with that I shall conclude this day which marked the transition from Summer into Winter with the old Celtic peoples.

 

Good night.

 

notamermaid

 

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by notamermaid
grammar

[BillPizzaiolo]

While you suffer the lack of rain and water Venice and much of Italy and parts of the USA are encountering more than usual. Weird stuff Mother Nature is telling us. I hope some are listening. 

[dancefan8]

2 hours ago, Mark_T said:

The choice was relatively easy, option 1.

 

I think that APT are being realistic, the current surge of water will not last much longer without more rain and we need these levels in about two weeks time which is certainly not guaranteed.

 

Shifting the cruise to next year could just be a repeat of this year.

 

A refund at this point just gives us last years money and next years prices with little ability to do anything better right now.

 

So on balance continuing is best I think, but it shows the quality and professionalism of ATP that they gave us all three options 10 days out...

Well, we shall see you on board Mark! 

[gadugger]

This is what the AMA Waterways representative told me when I called their California toll free number two days. 

_______   There is very little chance that any of their cruises will be cancelled outright. A recent example of a deviation was cruising thru Belgium and then being transported go Strausbourg. I forgot to ask if the transport was by bus or train. If you booked air thru AMA then the air will be cancelled when a cruise is cancelled. As we have post cruise plans in Europe, we are essentially forced to accept whatever version our Rhine river cruise that will be offered.  AMA did not tell me when I booked the air that we would be prohibited from upgrading to premium economy on the flight over. AMA was supposed to send detailed cruise info. 4 wks. before our Nov. 17 cruise. I still have not received any info. despite asking at least twice. Their belatedly posted web site low water warning was generic and of little value. Their web site warning about water level issues was totally inadequate in terms of disclosing the risks customers face. They will not tell me how many days notice I will get of an altered cruise.  This likely will be my first and last cruise with AMA.

[B&BCruiseFool]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

Currently already many ships are there - for whatever reason. As I write the Viking Eir has just left and is heading North: https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ports/4195/Germany_port:NIEHL

 

notamermaid

We are set to embark on the Amsterdam to Basel Viking tour in two days. Like many here, thank you Notamermaid for the updates along with everyone else. I have learned more about monitoring rivers in the past week than I care to admit.

 

We were alerted last Friday by Viking that we will embark on the Viking Eir instead of the Viking Mani this Friday and that we will have a "ship swap". That is all they have announced. I see the Mani is on the wrong end of the Gorge and presumably can not pass through. I have been watching the Viking Eir moored in Niehl and wondered when I might start seeing some movement. I see now on Marine Traffic that it is approaching Dusseldorf. 

 

Viking has been terrible in communicating with us as we have heard nothing beyond the change in embarkation. I called Viking today with the hope of getting an update on our itinerary and was offered no new information. I find it disappointing that they do not recognize there are at least a few cruisers that are monitoring water levels, blogs, and Marine Traffic. I noted to them that I have not seen a Viking ship move through the Gorge and assume that will not change in the next few days. I think most travelers would be more understanding (and possibly not cancel if that is an option) if they know what to expect including bus rides and changes in lodging. As another poster noted here, I have to believe there are many travelers that have no idea what to expect.

 

If anyone can share thoughts on how Viking might modify our itinerary, your input would be much appreciated.

 

 

[Coli]

23 minutes ago, gadugger said:

This is what the AMA Waterways representative told me when I called their California toll free number two days. 

_______   There is very little chance that any of their cruises will be cancelled outright. A recent example of a deviation was cruising thru Belgium and then being transported go Strausbourg. I forgot to ask if the transport was by bus or train. If you booked air thru AMA then the air will be cancelled when a cruise is cancelled. As we have post cruise plans in Europe, we are essentially forced to accept whatever version our Rhine river cruise that will be offered.  AMA did not tell me when I booked the air that we would be prohibited from upgrading to premium economy on the flight over. AMA was supposed to send detailed cruise info. 4 wks. before our Nov. 17 cruise. I still have not received any info. despite asking at least twice. Their belatedly posted web site low water warning was generic and of little value. Their web site warning about water level issues was totally inadequate in terms of disclosing the risks customers face. They will not tell me how many days notice I will get of an altered cruise.  This likely will be my first and last cruise with AMA.

Thanks for the update. I’m on this cruise as well - AMS-BAS on AMAPrima. Our flight to Europe out of JFK is with AMA, our flight to NYC from Bermuda is not. Not an issue right now for us.  Our awesome TA is currently on her way back to Bermuda and we’re catching up with her next week. I don’t expect to hear anything concrete from AMA until I’m pretty much stepping on a flight to NYC in 2 weeks. Hope to see you on the ship!

[Tahoebum]

20 minutes ago, B&BCruiseFool said:

We are set to embark on the Amsterdam to Basel Viking tour in two days. Like many here, thank you Notamermaid for the updates along with everyone else. I have learned more about monitoring rivers in the past week than I care to admit.

 

We were alerted last Friday by Viking that we will embark on the Viking Eir instead of the Viking Mani this Friday and that we will have a "ship swap". That is all they have announced. I see the Mani is on the wrong end of the Gorge and presumably can not pass through. I have been watching the Viking Eir moored in Niehl and wondered when I might start seeing some movement. I see now on Marine Traffic that it is approaching Dusseldorf. 

 

Viking has been terrible in communicating with us as we have heard nothing beyond the change in embarkation. I called Viking today with the hope of getting an update on our itinerary and was offered no new information. I find it disappointing that they do not recognize there are at least a few cruisers that are monitoring water levels, blogs, and Marine Traffic. I noted to them that I have not seen a Viking ship move through the Gorge and assume that will not change in the next few days. I think most travelers would be more understanding (and possibly not cancel if that is an option) if they know what to expect including bus rides and changes in lodging. As another poster noted here, I have to believe there are many travelers that have no idea what to expect.

 

If anyone can share thoughts on how Viking might modify our itinerary, your input would be much appreciated.

 

 

I haven't been able to get any updates from Viking either.  We are on the opposite schedule from yours:  departing from Basel in two days on the Mani and do the ship swap to the Eir.   We are going no matter what the schedule looks like and will make the most of it!

[CILCIANRQTS]

36 minutes ago, Tahoebum said:

I haven't been able to get any updates from Viking either.  We are on the opposite schedule from yours:  departing from Basel in two days on the Mani and do the ship swap to the Eir.   We are going no matter what the schedule looks like and will make the most of it!

 

And then the Mani will sail back to Basel and meet us 11/9 for our trip through the gorge to Amsterdam!

[Mark_T]

1 hour ago, B&BCruiseFool said:

We were alerted last Friday by Viking that we will embark on the Viking Eir instead of the Viking Mani this Friday and that we will have a "ship swap". That is all they have announced. I see the Mani is on the wrong end of the Gorge and presumably can not pass through. I have been watching the Viking Eir moored in Niehl and wondered when I might start seeing some movement. I see now on Marine Traffic that it is approaching Dusseldorf.

 

Viking have had at least one ship travel through the gorge in the last couple of days and a good number of other similar sized ships have made it through as well, so it is not a matter of 'can not' more a matter of 'may not be sensible'.

 

Right now Viking have managed to get a lot of people form one end of their cruise to the other via ship swaps and have avoided using hotels.

 

If they send ships north of the gorge leaving them without ships south of the gorge and the water levels fall, they would lose that key advantage.

 

I suspect they will be very careful how many ships they send north before the water levels are a lot more certain than they are right now...

[Mark_T]

1 hour ago, dancefan8 said:

Well, we shall see you on board Mark! 

 

Indeed, all aboard for the mystery tour! 🙂

[Where’s Waldo]

We had a ship swap with Viking from Vidar to Lofn B-A and took bus to day boat along Rhine gorge and during the bus ride, it looked very narrow during at least one turn. With the lower water level you also run into que in traffic just like getting through the locks. We were in Kinderdijk yesterday and no rain but day prior in Cologne it rained most of the day so I doubt Viking knows exactly what will happen.  We  were told by our program director from the start there would be a swap than the day prior he said conditions improved so we did not coach as far. Good luck to all. 

[Mark_T]

One to watch this morning, SS Antoinette, heading north through the gorge.

 

Not much south bound traffic today it seems...

[hbr777]

More gorgeous rain

 

[Dance momma]

We got an email from Uniworld last night.  Telling us we would be boarding the. river princess instead of the empress lower draft!  This is hopefully the only change!  Cross our fingers that the rain continues!

[Mark_T]

26 minutes ago, hbr777 said:

More gorgeous rain

 

We need it...  Levels are falling again in the gorge, S.S. Antoinette should have reappeared north of the gorge a couple of hours ago but is still not there yet.

 

I'm guessing that it is getting harder to pass larger ships as the channel narrows, let's hope she makes it, but I suspect we will not see more of the larger ships attempting the gorge until there is more water again...

[luvsun22]

14 hours ago, B&BCruiseFool said:

We are set to embark on the Amsterdam to Basel Viking tour in two days. Like many here, thank you Notamermaid for the updates along with everyone else. I have learned more about monitoring rivers in the past week than I care to admit.

 

We were alerted last Friday by Viking that we will embark on the Viking Eir instead of the Viking Mani this Friday and that we will have a "ship swap". That is all they have announced. I see the Mani is on the wrong end of the Gorge and presumably can not pass through. I have been watching the Viking Eir moored in Niehl and wondered when I might start seeing some movement. I see now on Marine Traffic that it is approaching Dusseldorf. 

 

Viking has been terrible in communicating with us as we have heard nothing beyond the change in embarkation. I called Viking today with the hope of getting an update on our itinerary and was offered no new information. I find it disappointing that they do not recognize there are at least a few cruisers that are monitoring water levels, blogs, and Marine Traffic. I noted to them that I have not seen a Viking ship move through the Gorge and assume that will not change in the next few days. I think most travelers would be more understanding (and possibly not cancel if that is an option) if they know what to expect including bus rides and changes in lodging. As another poster noted here, I have to believe there are many travelers that have no idea what to expect.

 

If anyone can share thoughts on how Viking might modify our itinerary, your input would be much appreciated.

 

 

I sailed last week from A to B on the Viking Hlin and Kara. I got two notifications from Viking prior to sailing, one about a week before warning me of the low water and potential ship swap and another a couple days before telling me that there would definitely be a swap and that we would embark on the Hlin instead of the Kara.  My opinion differs from you in that I think the communication was great. What else are they supposed to tell us?  Having been on the ship I can tell you they are doing everything they can and don’t honestly know from day to day what they will be able to do. 

 

As to the ship swap, it was handled very well. At the time the Hlin could get no farther than Cologne and the Kara was in Strasbourg. After our day in Cologne, we overnighted there, and the next day we bussed to Marksburg Castle, then we bussed to a nearby town and got on a day cruiser and did the scenic sailing of the Rhine to see the castes. We got off in Bingen and we’re bussed from there to Strasbourg. The next day was long as well, because we had to bus from Strasbourg to Heidelberg. We felt lucky that we got to go to all of the promised locations and we were able to sleep on a ship the enire time.  

 

My my hat is off to the crew of both those ships, they handled it all extremely well and did the very best they could under the extreme circumstances.  

 

FYI,  my friend is on the same itinerary this week and while she still had to do a ship swap, both ships were able to make it further on the river, so the drive time for her was much less then I had last week.  

Edited November 1, 2018 by luvsun22

[Roz]

16 hours ago, BillPizzaiolo said:

She was the middle ship we swapped with a week and a half ago. Beautifully appointed great staff you’ll Love it for sure. Have a blast. 

Bill,

 

I assume you're referring to the River Princess.  Good to know.  I would have been so disappointed if the cruise had been cancelled.  It's a lot of work to get ready to go on vacation, especially out of the country, and I would have hated to see that all that work be in vain.

 

Roz

[notamermaid]

The river has lost crucial centimetres in the Rhine gorge overnight (it is up a little again since). It is overcast and raining in parts of the valley but the rain is for the most part not substantial.

 

hbr777, your map and me checking on a German radar image show that around half to 2/3 of the rain (depending on intensity) will not reach the Rhine gorge as it is on the wrong side of the Vosges mountains. It will mostly drain via the Saar and Moselle into the Rhine at Koblenz. This will benefit Cologne and barge traffic downstream from there. It is desperately needed. And river cruise ship captains will appreciate having more space if barge traffic can relocate or rearrange logistics around the harbours. Hopefully rain later tonight or during the night can help but I have not checked the forecast in detail about what the next twelve hours will bring.

 

The current river levels: Maxau 341cm, Kaub 54cm, Koblenz 50cm. The outlook at Maxau is not too good as not much rain is expected. Kaub is forecast to rise but Monday could see it return to a figure between 52 and 54cm again. But that is still tentative.

 

Mark_T,

 

as I have I mentioned in the other thread I have been able to find the S.S.Antoinette as being in the docking schedule for Rüdesheim. If she sticks to her schedule she will not reappear before around 5.30pm. If she also docks in Boppard as she has done I recall in years past then we might see her again much later.

 

The authorities at Neuwied have now issued online the evacuation radius for the bomb that was found in the Rhine. It is altogether 9000 people in Neuwied and two of its suburbs, 150 people in Andernach on the other side of Neuwied and an industrial area in Andernach. It looks as if the Andernach embankment where the river cruise ships dock is not in the zone. The railway line on the right bank will be closed.

Shipping will be halted during the operation. No drone flights allowed. Defusing the bomb is scheduled to take place on Sunday, 4 November at noon.

 

Who knows how many are still lying around there where the bridge is - or was, as it has since been replaced by a modern construction. A small railway line bridge with significance for transporting supplies up and down the Rhine valley became the target of overkill - 3.000 US bombs, less then ten hit their target. It is a small but no less tragic story like so many and has been told many times by the locals to their children, friends, and in the local newspaper. That is how I know about it.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[hbr777]

As notamermaid intimated, some places are winners, some losers on the levels.

 

[Mark_T]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

as I have I mentioned in the other thread I have been able to find the S.S.Antoinette as being in the docking schedule for Rüdesheim. If she sticks to her schedule she will not reappear before around 5.30pm. If she also docks in Boppard as she has done I recall in years past then we might see her again much later.

 

She has indeed reappeared at Boppard.

[gadugger]

AMAPRIMA updates: I received an email from our booking agent that our stateroom would be upgraded from BA to AA which increases square footage by 25. This makes room for two chairs by the small table in front of the French balcony.

Our cruise is from A to B Nov. 16 -23.

If AMA had been reading my posts, they probably would have given me a complimentary downgrade 🙂  I have surrendered  my cruise fate to the river gods which has eased my mind somewhat.

[notamermaid]

Oh, good. Actually, I thought she might not show up due to the bad signal at Boppard. Most signals going upstream are lost between Spay and Boppard. Downstream, at least in her case, is working better.

 

There is indeed less traffic around there today. Partly due to different schedules now that winter is approaching I should think, but I fear that some ships have tried to make a fast move in either direction to get where they want to be and others will stay ready for ship swaps. The level is touch and go for the 135m ships.

 

notamermaid

 

[OldCrustyGuy]

Received a call 11/1/18, 2:51 PM CDT from from Grand Circle Travel regarding our Antwerp to Basel cruise (11/11-25) on the Rhine/Mosel.  Our cruise will not have any deviations due to the abundance of rain recently and the positive weather forecast resulting in improved conditions. If the water situation should change in the negative, the only deviation would be a ship change about 1/2 way during the cruise. I mentioned the current Antwerp-Basel sailing has a deviation involving a ship swap and two night hotel stay. She indicated the hotel stay would not be our situation even if a ship swap develops.

 

Have conditions improved to such degree that our sailing most likely will NOT have any deviations?
 

[Mark_T]

24 minutes ago, OldCrustyGuy said:

Have conditions improved to such degree that our sailing most likely will NOT have any deviations?

 

More rain is needed for certainty, conditions did improve but levels on the Rhine are falling again so your main risk is still the section through the Rhine Gorge.

 

I can't immediately see which ship you will be on, but I suspect it is not one of the 135m ships so that will help, but I'd still hesitate to say 'most likely not..'