Travelcat2 Posted June 5, 2019 #26 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Not sure about Nelson's DeMille's novel or when it was written but do know that things have changed dramatically in recent years. If someone visited Cuba without restrictions (as we have done in the past), it is a beautiful country with extraordinary people. Only their government is questionable (just as other governments are). My point is to remember the people of Cuba - not only the government. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiseluv Posted June 5, 2019 #27 Share Posted June 5, 2019 7 hours ago, pingpong1 said: Mr. Levin & Hyper - Thanks for the quick replies. I was jut wondering if Cuba was your main focus for the cruise/s you booked. And both of you answered in the affirmative. In my former line of work, I was in Gitmo quite often, but that of course is not really "the Cuba" that we're talking about here. Regards "The Cuba" that you're talking about only lives in your imagination. I don't begrudge you for wanting to go there , but please know its an apartheid government. Not sure what you're attracted to, the old cars, buildings falling down in disrepair? A bucket list place on your list? This is not a zoo where extinct animals can be seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelcat2 Posted June 5, 2019 #28 Share Posted June 5, 2019 48 minutes ago, cruiseluv said: "The Cuba" that you're talking about only lives in your imagination. I don't begrudge you for wanting to go there , but please know its an apartheid government. Not sure what you're attracted to, the old cars, buildings falling down in disrepair? A bucket list place on your list? This is not a zoo where extinct animals can be seen. I suspect that you left Cuba a long time ago because what you are describing is in Havana but not some other parts of the country. In fact, when we arrived in Havana and wanted a taxi got take us to Varadero, we were in a Mercedes. The beaches along the way were amazing as was the scenery - all natural beauty which we love. We found the people very friendly. During our first trip we stayed at two all-inclusive resorts. At the second one we met with a tennis instructor every day. We were his only "students" so we had plenty of time to talk. He talked about their educational system, healthcare system, etc. He also discussed the poverty and problems. One more thing -- at that time, the only thing on the television was Fidel Castro (on more than one channel). We did discuss him and what would happen when he died (and what happened is exactly as he predicted). When he was able to get a job in Varadero, he had access to television around the world. In his words, after seeing television for the first time....... "it was like I was born again". His dream is to visit Canada or Mexico. We also discussed the fact that he believes that the U.S. brought down their own Trade Center. I was not there to argue with him so I listened and simply said that this is not what we believe. While this is not specifically about cruising, I am trying to explain our attraction to this country and the lovely people. We visited other Communist and/or countries where human rights are deplorable. In every case, when we speak with the people - they are somewhat the same as all of us. To be honest, I would not be surprised if people did not want to visit the U.S. based on what they read (mass shootings almost daily, etc.) but, once they get to know us, they likely would feel the same way that we do about people in other countries. As an aside, the one city in the world that we do not like is Rio as it is opposite to cities in the world that we have visited. They have natural beauty that they choose to deface - the crime is off the charts and I do not see the pride in the people that we have seen in Cuba, cities in Africa and Asia. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiseluv Posted June 5, 2019 #29 Share Posted June 5, 2019 29 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said: I suspect that you left Cuba a long time ago because what you are describing is in Havana but not some other parts of the country. In fact, when we arrived in Havana and wanted a taxi got take us to Varadero, we were in a Mercedes. The beaches along the way were amazing as was the scenery - all natural beauty which we love. We found the people very friendly. During our first trip we stayed at two all-inclusive resorts. At the second one we met with a tennis instructor every day. We were his only "students" so we had plenty of time to talk. He talked about their educational system, healthcare system, etc. He also discussed the poverty and problems. Please, the natural beauty of places like Varadero is not in dispute. Great that you went there in a Mercedes, what does that prove?? Yes, I left a long time ago thanks to the foresight of my parents, not sure what you're driving at. Useful idiots, I love that phrase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelcat2 Posted June 5, 2019 #30 Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 hour ago, cruiseluv said: Please, the natural beauty of places like Varadero is not in dispute. Great that you went there in a Mercedes, what does that prove?? Yes, I left a long time ago thanks to the foresight of my parents, not sure what you're driving at. Useful idiots, I love that phrase My only point was that things may have changed since you were there and was sharing our experiences with the people. I thought that you might find it interesting that there are major resorts there. And, they get many visitors from all over the world. My only insight into the politics is from discussions with friends whose parents had the foresight that your parents had. When they left Cuba, they believed that they would return in a month. Until cruise ships started visiting Cuba, they had returned. Really hope that you don't find out views insulting in any way! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gentlemancruiser Posted June 5, 2019 #31 Share Posted June 5, 2019 17 hours ago, forgap said: And we have said it before, this approach is not equitable and is a response to pressure from Cuban American activists. I can’t say I blame them as they lost everything - material things and loved ones. It was a perilous time. However, we still go to China..and Vietnam...and other countries whose policies counter ours and whose human rights records are horrible. We visited cuba several years ago on a people to people tour. I loved everything about the country, the people, and the music. So sad to see such comments from people who have never visited the island. The people of Cuba are very warm and welcoming and the island is really amazing, although still very poor the Cuban people I've met there were very proud. I don't blame anyone for being angry from the suffering, but a boycott doesn't help the local people at all. It just builds wall between people. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gentlemancruiser Posted June 5, 2019 #32 Share Posted June 5, 2019 13 hours ago, fizzy said: We agree 100%. so sorry but there is very little freedom for a young woman who is pregnant in most of the US at the moment, so please spare us the lecturers on freedom. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzy Posted June 5, 2019 #33 Share Posted June 5, 2019 27 minutes ago, gentlemancruiser said: so sorry but there is very little freedom for a young woman who is pregnant in most of the US at the moment, so please spare us the lecturers on freedom. My suggestion for anyone who finds the policies of the United States or Canada or Switzerland or wherever so repugnant, for whatever reason, that they cannot support that government's views should avoid these destinations and be more careful when making travel plans so as not to appear hypocritical .....this would also negate the need to put forth gentle lectures. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong1 Posted June 5, 2019 #34 Share Posted June 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, fizzy said: My suggestion for anyone who finds the policies of the United States or Canada or Switzerland or wherever so repugnant, for whatever reason, that they cannot support that government's views should avoid these destinations and be more careful when making travel plans so as not to appear hypocritical .....this would also negate the need to put forth gentle lectures. Fizzy - Thank You! Your succinct response was far more civilized, polite, and "on point" than the 4 drafts that I subsequently deleted before posting. Since I was admonished earlier for stupidly thinking that "political discussions" were not suitable for posting on CC, it now seems that the "hounds have been unleashed" to spew any and all things that comes to their mind regarding our country and our form of government. Best Regards. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcsdkqh Posted June 5, 2019 #35 Share Posted June 5, 2019 And by all means, avoid US Cruise lines also. Everyone will be happier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare forgap Posted June 5, 2019 #36 Share Posted June 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, pingpong1 said: Fizzy - Thank You! Your succinct response was far more civilized, polite, and "on point" than the 4 drafts that I subsequently deleted before posting. Since I was admonished earlier for stupidly thinking that "political discussions" were not suitable for posting on CC, it now seems that the "hounds have been unleashed" to spew any and all things that comes to their mind regarding our country and our form of government. Best Regards. I don’t think anyone agrees with all governmental policies all the time. The point of travel is connection and exposure to other points of view and lifestyles - even if you fundamentally disagree with with those points of view and lifestyles. Travel has enriched my life by opening my eyes to gut wrenching poverty, opulent privilege, and the humanity that connects the two. I hope on this forum we can at least respect each other’s opinions without resorting to inflammatory verbiage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallydave Posted June 5, 2019 #37 Share Posted June 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, wcsdkqh said: And by all means, avoid US Cruise lines also. Everyone will be happier. That will be really simple as there are no US Ocean Cruise Lines. Yes there are many cruise lines based in the US however they are registered foreign companies much like all of the Ocean Cruise Lines are flagged outside the US. While they appear to be US companies, they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong1 Posted June 5, 2019 #38 Share Posted June 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, forgap said: I don’t think anyone agrees with all governmental policies all the time. The point of travel is connection and exposure to other points of view and lifestyles - even if you fundamentally disagree with with those points of view and lifestyles. Travel has enriched my life by opening my eyes to gut wrenching poverty, opulent privilege, and the humanity that connects the two. I hope on this forum we can at least respect each other’s opinions without resorting to inflammatory verbiage. My mother used to tell me (and I'm sure others were told the same thing) that "one does not discuss Money, Politics, and Religion in polite company". And there are good reason for that, which we can see playing out here. If anyone thinks that some of us are going to "silently standby and remain quiet", while people from other countries (and even our own) attempt to draw a "moral equivalency" between the U.S. government (whoever our president happens to be at the moment) and the oppressively cruel communist regime in Cuba - that isn't going to happen! Unless/until our posts are deleted by CC. I actually can't believe that his thread has not already been "locked". You heard "inflammatory verbiage" coming from one quarter, whereas others of us, heard it coming from another. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong1 Posted June 5, 2019 #39 Share Posted June 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, rallydave said: That will be really simple as there are no US Ocean Cruise Lines. Yes there are many cruise lines based in the US however they are registered foreign companies much like all of the Ocean Cruise Lines are flagged outside the US. While they appear to be US companies, they are not. I think most of us "knew" exactly what was meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcsdkqh Posted June 5, 2019 #40 Share Posted June 5, 2019 RallyDave.. I stand corrected. NCLH is a corporation registered in Bermuda with headquarters in Miami. My comment still applies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellaggio Cruisers Posted June 5, 2019 #41 Share Posted June 5, 2019 We were on Regent’s first cruise to Cuba in April 2016. We visited old Havana, with its buildings in such disrepair. I was charmed and dismayed at the same time. It was like an old painting, in need of a restoration. We did a farm to table tour. It was a waste of time. We visited a nightclub in the evening. Entertaining, but no different than many other shows we have seen. We rented a classic car, on our own. It was fun. The most important take away was that every guide fed us the “party line”. The local people, frankly, did not want to have conversations with us. I am glad I had the opportunity to visit Havana, however, we have been to so many more interesting places in the world. We are booked on a return visit in December on the Explorer, so can’t wait to see where we are going. Sheila and Herb PS. Herb was not thrilled with Havana so he is not disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare forgap Posted June 5, 2019 #42 Share Posted June 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, pingpong1 said: You heard "inflammatory verbiage" coming from one quarter, whereas others of us, heard it coming from another. the "hounds have been unleashed" to spew any and all things that comes to their mind regarding our country and our form of government. sounds inflammatory to me no matter which side it’s coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallydave Posted June 5, 2019 #43 Share Posted June 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, wcsdkqh said: RallyDave.. I stand corrected. NCLH is a corporation registered in Bermuda with headquarters in Miami. My comment still applies. Thanks for the clarification however, avoiding cruise lines based in the US won't help the current situation. The restriction is not on US cruise lines or cruise lines headquartered int the US only. It includes foreign cruise lines as well as the restriction is based on ships leaving US ports and that includes all cruise lines in the world that leave a US port. Right now I know of at least two cruise lines, MSC and Viking that are actively figuring out their next step as they both have cruises departing a US port ans scheduled for Cuba. And, there may be more so avoiding US or US Headquartered cruise lines is not a solution,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlevin Posted June 5, 2019 Author #44 Share Posted June 5, 2019 CLIA has spoken: Cruise line trade group CLIA said the U.S. government's stricter rules for Cuba travel have forced cruise lines to eliminate Cuba destinations from all itineraries, effective immediately. CLIA said this affects nearly 800,000 passenger bookings that are scheduled or already underway. "All these bookings had been made under a general license previously issued by the United States government that authorized 'people to people' travel to Cuba," CLIA stated. "The new rules effectively make it illegal to cruise to Cuba from the United States. While this situation is completely beyond our control, we are genuinely sorry for all cruise line guests who were looking forward to their previously booked itineraries to Cuba." Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. said it scrubbed Havana from the itinerary of cruises leaving the U.S. on June 5 and 6. Royal Caribbean uses the Empress of the Seas and the Majesty of the Seas on cruises that include Cuba in the itinerary. I doubt if Regent offers anything beyond cancellation and return of funds; non-refundable hotel and air I will just eat. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelcat2 Posted June 5, 2019 #45 Share Posted June 5, 2019 5 hours ago, gentlemancruiser said: So sad to see such comments from people who have never visited the island. The people of Cuba are very warm and welcoming and the island is really amazing, although still very poor the Cuban people I've met there were very proud. I don't blame anyone for being angry from the suffering, but a boycott doesn't help the local people at all. It just builds wall between people. Really appreciate your post! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherDawn Posted June 5, 2019 #46 Share Posted June 5, 2019 18 hours ago, SWFLAOK said: I just finished reading Nelson DeMille's novel, "A Cuban Affair". After reading that, visiting Cuba doesn't seem like a vacation. Some of our friend have taken short cruises to Cuba from Florida this year. They enjoyed being onboard the cruise ship much more than they enjoyed getting off the boat in Cuba. Since it looks like the chances of Regent changing the itinerary for my trip are very good, I thank you for trying to "cheer me up" so to speak. I don't want to get into a debate over this. There is so much strife everywhere these days, and this forum has been the one place I go to get away from it all and dream about my vacation... but I digress. Thank you for your good intentions. 😊 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captjohn Posted June 5, 2019 #47 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Went to the Regent site and there was no announcement concerning Cuba but if you go to "find a Cruise" there is a blank space where Cuba use to be. You can click on that box and it still takes you to the planned Cube cruises. I just found it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaknots Posted June 5, 2019 #48 Share Posted June 5, 2019 20 hours ago, SWFLAOK said: We look forward to visiting islands where people are free to do what they want, and are not oppressed by their government. ironic. topic is about US people having freedom to travel stopped 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaknots Posted June 5, 2019 #49 Share Posted June 5, 2019 5 hours ago, rallydave said: Right now I know of at least two cruise lines, MSC and Viking that are actively figuring out their next step as they both have cruises departing a US port ans scheduled for Cuba. msc already cancelled havana stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypercafe Posted June 5, 2019 #50 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Just got a email from my TA stating that effect immediately no cruise ships my sail to Cuba. Seems cruise companies are sending notification based on how soon the cruise. Since mine is next year it will be a while till I hear but there is no godfather for any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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