Opinions about Fly2Fun and any recs for saving on Business

[Eli_6]

Right now, Carnival Fly2Fun is about $870 per person roundtrip for coach for direct Houston to London on my dates.  Cheapest I am finding it elsewhere is $1250 per person for the same flight. Yet, I have heard negative things about fly 2 fun including that they don't book your tickets until 60 days out so you are left with the worst seats on the plane.  Any experience?  

 

I really wanted to fly business as I usually fly business internationally, but the cheapest I can find two business class fares for is $6700 ($3350 a piece). I can't justify that.  (Previously, I have gotten business for only about $500-800 more from Houston to London.) Is there some secret to finding cheaper business class? I can't imagine everyone is paying $3300 a ticket.  

[fbgd]

29 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

Previously, I have gotten business for only about $500-800 more from Houston to London

 

Well, what did you do last time? $500-$800 more is VERY cheap as an upgrade to business class. The costs for business class and economy move independently of one another but $3300 is a pretty decent, if not amazing  business class fare between IAH and London. It isn't uncommon for longhaul business to be 8x the cost of economy.

 

You'd be surprised by the route demographics with, as you may suspect, oil money, plus financial services traffic going in both ways. Can't see any reason to think why the majority of people aren't paying that and more. Just because you can't personally justify it doesn't mean that others can't either.

Edited January 5, 2020 by fbgd

[Eli_6]

43 minutes ago, fbgd said:

 

Well, what did you do last time? $500-$800 more is VERY cheap as an upgrade to business class. The costs for business class and economy move independently of one another but $3300 is a pretty decent, if not amazing  business class fare between IAH and London. It isn't uncommon for longhaul business to be 8x the cost of economy.

 

You'd be surprised by the route demographics with, as you may suspect, oil money, plus financial services traffic going in both ways. Can't see any reason to think why the majority of people aren't paying that and more. Just because you can't personally justify it doesn't mean that others can't either.

 

I didn't do anything. I just booked the fares and in the past, it was less expensive.

 

When I have been to London direct from Houston, it seems like most of the people going there are on vacation or coming to Houston for medical treatment. Not too many business travelers.  Maybe a handful, but not the majority. First class on BA was entirely empty last time I flew.  Out of Houston, oil and engineering go to the Middle East, South America, Asia, etc. more than the UK on business. In my experience, most people don't drop $7k on airline tickets for personal reasons that they can't write off or charge to a client.  If they can afford that kind of money, they are usually part of a charter share and aren't flying commercial at all.  

Edited January 5, 2020 by Eli_6

[fbgd]

3 hours ago, Eli_6 said:

In my experience, most people don't drop $7k on airline tickets for personal reasons that they can't write off or charge to a client.  If they can afford that kind of money, they are usually part of a charter share and aren't flying commercial at all.  

 

There's a HUGE gulf between private jet travel for longhaul and commercial. You're easily looking at $100k+ for a oneway between the US and Europe on a private jet. I can pretty comfortably afford international First and Business Class travel longhaul but private jet travel is another level altogether.

 

I'd say your previous experience certainly isn't representative of the true international business class fares for longhaul. Between the US and Europe, as a very rough guide, anything below $2500 return is a very good deal.

Edited January 5, 2020 by fbgd

[Eli_6]

Well, there is a difference between what one can afford and what one is willing to pay.  I can afford a lot of things that I don't ultimately think are worth the money. 

 

My main experience with the personal jet is just by hearing about my husband's friend who joined a jet share because it was less expensive than flying first class when he traveled with his wife, kids, nanny, etc. for his career. (He traveled almost non-stop and they went with him to keep the family together before the kids were school age.) Now, legitimately, I don't know the details of whether he used it internationally or not so maybe it was a smaller plane and only used domestically, so perhaps that was the difference.

 

I think we paid about $1800 before per person in 2018 on BA during peak season. The $500 extra may have been over premium economy...but now, the  economy plus is more than that!  It doesn't seem like rates should have doubled in a year and a half.  I traveled first class from Houston to LA, NY, Chicago, Syracuse, Las Vegas, and North Carolina all since March and I don't think any of the flights were over $500-600 except *maybe* Syracuse.  Most flights were American or United... although, I despise United but fly them anyway simply because they have the most flights from IAH.  

 

I wonder if it is also because I am a long way out.  Typically, I book flights 1-2 months out and not 6 months.  

 

My brother married a Spanish woman and when they were courting he would fly back and forth to Malaga regularly from San Antonio.  He is 6'4 so flying coach is difficult and the locations required layovers in Dallas and another city making the trip harder.  Plus, even after they married and she was pregnant, she would fly back every few months to check on her business.  

 

I called him a few minutes ago and asked him because I know he wasn't dishing out $3k+ every 2 or so months.  One time he even flew my parents, her, him and their two daughters to Malaga for Christmas on business and I KNOW he wasn't dropping $20k on airline tickets.  At any rate, he said he always used miles on his business card and then typically had to pay a couple hundred dollars upgrade so I am looking into the card he uses for business expenses and to accrue miles. 

 

Honestly, as I look into this miles/reward card more, I am betting that is how a lot of families pay for business.  Because I know plenty of people who fly their entire family business to visit relatives overseas at least once a year and I doubt most of them are spending $20k+ for two adults, three kids, grandma, nanny, etc.  

 

  

Edited January 5, 2020 by Eli_6

[fbgd]

2 hours ago, Eli_6 said:

Honestly, as I look into this miles/reward card more, I am betting that is how a lot of families pay for business.  Because I know plenty of people who fly their entire family business to visit relatives overseas at least once a year and I doubt most of them are spending $20k+ for two adults, three kids, grandma, nanny, etc. 

 

You may be surprised who is paying for premium cabin tickets. I’ve been paying for longhaul business and first class out of my own pocket since my teens...went to boarding school with kids who would fly back and forth to NYC on Concorde and such.

 

Playing the miles and status game is certainly worthwhile if you travel even only a little. However you’ll struggle to find 7 business class award/upgrade tickets on any airline unless you have literally millions of miles to shell out on “anytime” tickets. 

The $1800 you paid is certainly a very very good sale fare. Prices haven’t gone up by 50% in a year, they have just normalized. Longhaul is a different ballgame price wise to domestic first class and you can’t extrapolate prices out from what you’d pay domestically.

[waterbug123]

18 hours ago, Eli_6 said:

 I can't imagine everyone is paying $3300 a ticket.  

 

Well, not everyone is paying that; some manage to time it just right (by chance) and get a cheaper fare, or they book through a 3rd party vendor (consolidator, cruise line, etc.) and are subject to whatever restrictions those tickets come with.  Then there are the people using miles to buy their ticket, or buying coach and using money, miles, or frequent flyer upgrade certificates to bump up to biz class.  But, you might be surprised at how many people ARE paying in that range for a ticket.  Business travelers are in a category to themselves; many book relatively last minute travel and price is a secondary consideration or is billed to a client either directly or indirectly.   And there is a segment of the population that, while not uber wealthy, can and will choose to pay in this range when flying internationally.  We've done it several times, and travel frequently with a group of friends who also have/do.  Not every time; sometimes they use miles, or upgrade as previously described, but if those options aren't available, they'll pay.  It just depends on a person's priorities.  A great example:  Most of my BF's successful business peers drive new Merecedes or Lexus vehicles but my BF couldn't care less what he drives, so he drives a 5 year old Chevy Malibu.  What he saves in car/lease payments easily pays for a set of business class tickets each year.

 

16 hours ago, Eli_6 said:

 

I didn't do anything. I just booked the fares and in the past, it was less expensive.

 

When I have been to London direct from Houston, it seems like most of the people going there are on vacation or coming to Houston for medical treatment. Not too many business travelers.  Maybe a handful, but not the majority. First class on BA was entirely empty last time I flew.... In my experience, most people don't drop $7k on airline tickets for personal reasons that they can't write off or charge to a client.  If they can afford that kind of money, they are usually part of a charter share and aren't flying commercial at all.  

 

Unless you polled the passengers, you really don't know why they are traveling.  You may see couples for instance, and assume it's vacation travel.  But one could be traveling on business, and have used miles to bring the spouse along.  I'm in some airline-specific elite level frequent flyer groups, and this scenario is not unheard of.  Or, see above; there IS a segment of the population that can and does drop $7k on airline tickets for personal reasons from time to time but is  NOT part of the private plane set.

 

11 hours ago, Eli_6 said:

Well, there is a difference between what one can afford and what one is willing to pay.  I can afford a lot of things that I don't ultimately think are worth the money.  

 

Exactly, and everyone has different priorities.  I know plenty of people who sacrifice on expenses that would be common to others, in order to prioritize travel.

 

[FlyerTalker]

Seems to me that you got an excellent price one time in the past and now expect that to be the norm.

 

Also, given the large amount of first class travel over the last year, you should be well plugged in to the vagaries and nature of air travel.

 

 

[Eli_6]

5 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

Seems to me that you got an excellent price one time in the past and now expect that to be the norm.

 

Also, given the large amount of first class travel over the last year, you should be well plugged in to the vagaries and nature of air travel.

 

 

Unfortunately, I think you may be right. 

[scottbee]

On 1/5/2020 at 9:27 AM, Eli_6 said:

Right now, Carnival Fly2Fun is about $870 per person roundtrip for coach for direct Houston to London on my dates.  Cheapest I am finding it elsewhere is $1250 per person for the same flight. Yet, I have heard negative things about fly 2 fun including that they don't book your tickets until 60 days out so you are left with the worst seats on the plane.  Any experience?  

 

I really wanted to fly business as I usually fly business internationally, but the cheapest I can find two business class fares for is $6700 ($3350 a piece). I can't justify that.  (Previously, I have gotten business for only about $500-800 more from Houston to London.) Is there some secret to finding cheaper business class? I can't imagine everyone is paying $3300 a ticket.  

Without knowing your dates, it's hard to help you find something you might be more comfortable with.

 

A quick look at August yields $2450/rt business class from IAH-LHR on various carriers (UA, BA, etc), and other carriers via their hubs (DL via ATL/DTW/JFK etc).  You can get that down to $2000 if you're willing to fly to AMS, and get a separate ticket to the UK from there.  For a lot of cruisers this might be preferable, depending on which port you're out of (AMS-SOU/Southampton ticket for example), and avoid London altogether.

 

Are there other restrictions you're placing on the ticket that we're unaware of ?

 

 

[Eli_6]

@waterbug123 and  - Yes, I suppose you are correct in that I can't tell why people are traveling.  Typically, I just assume if you are a couple traveling or with kids, it isn't business because I never travel with my husband or kids for business nor do most of my friends or husband's friends due to school aged kids.  However, my boss (who is about 70) does occasionally bring his wife as she does not work.  He will also combine business and personal when he goes to DC because his son lives in DC and usually his wife flies with him then as well.  

 

Business travelers make a huge difference, I concede. 

 

When I travel for business, I write it off to the client so I am not as concerned about price; although there is a certain point at which a client might balk. Although, I have never had that happen. 

 

If my husband travels for business, he writes it off of his business because he owns his own business.  This also makes a difference in price.  So, that means the price is cut down significantly due to the tax break. Same with leased cars.  My husband leases a Maserati Levante on his business for the tax break, but our personal cars are a Dodge truck and a Dodge minivan.  My boss does the same thing...leases a Porsche SUV on the business but his personal car is more affordable. 

 

I do think quite a few business owners use miles, though.  My husband is a physician who owns his own practice and has three other health care providers working for him. Between medical equipment and supplies and cost of running the business (not even including payroll or insurance or the mortgage on the building) he typically has thousands on a card every month between phones, cable, internet, and everything else that is billed on auto pay or bought for the business.  So, if we switched his rewards card from cash back to miles, I think he could probably accumulate enough to upgrade us at least once a year or once every two.  (The cash back really isn't that much anyway.) My brother was telling me he puts everything on his rewards card except his payroll.  I have been researching the reward cards and there are several that give you 100k miles if you spend 20k in the first year and 3k in first three months.

 

Although, are you all saying the black out dates make it difficult to travel?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eli_6]

8 minutes ago, scottbee said:

Without knowing your dates, it's hard to help you find something you might be more comfortable with.

 

A quick look at August yields $2450/rt business class from IAH-LHR on various carriers (UA, BA, etc), and other carriers via their hubs (DL via ATL/DTW/JFK etc).  You can get that down to $2000 if you're willing to fly to AMS, and get a separate ticket to the UK from there.  For a lot of cruisers this might be preferable, depending on which port you're out of (AMS-SOU/Southampton ticket for example), and avoid London altogether.

 

Are there other restrictions you're placing on the ticket that we're unaware of ?

 

 

 

I am going to Dover, but I was looking at flying into either Heathrow or Gatwick. I will look at Southampton.  I am looking in June.  About the 17th or 18th through the 29th or 30th.  I can do plus or minus a couple of days either way. Cruise is the 19th through the 28th.  

 

I plugged in IAH for Houston.  I even tried Hobby and Austin just to see, but they were more. 

 

When I flew before, it was in August so maybe August is cheaper than June.  🤔  Maybe it has something to do with people not traveling quite as much before school starts back up... I know my kids get out on May 22 and go back on August 15th.   Not sure if that is a standard schedule or not because they go to a parochial school.  

[scottbee]

1 hour ago, Eli_6 said:

 

I am going to Dover, but I was looking at flying into either Heathrow or Gatwick. I will look at Southampton.  I am looking in June.  About the 17th or 18th through the 29th or 30th.  I can do plus or minus a couple of days either way. Cruise is the 19th through the 28th.  

 

I plugged in IAH for Houston.  I even tried Hobby and Austin just to see, but they were more. 

 

When I flew before, it was in August so maybe August is cheaper than June.  🤔  Maybe it has something to do with people not traveling quite as much before school starts back up... I know my kids get out on May 22 and go back on August 15th.   Not sure if that is a standard schedule or not because they go to a parochial school.  

 

Firstly, you don't want to look at SOU unless your cruise is out of Southampton (which a lot of UK cruises are).

 

To Dover, LGW/Gatwick is closer, but you're going to find more international flights into LHR/Heathrow; so it's a bit of "take your pick".

 

As for prices, you're flying to the UK during the one of the world's largest sporting events , Euro2020 Jun 12 - Jul 12.  Looks like evrything to Europe is expensive.

 

 

[fbgd]

7 hours ago, Eli_6 said:

When I flew before, it was in August so maybe August is cheaper than June.  🤔  Maybe it has something to do with people not traveling quite as much before school starts back up... I know my kids get out on May 22 and go back on August 15th.   Not sure if that is a standard schedule or not because they go to a parochial school.  

 

That's why it was so cheap before...traditionally transatlantic premium cabin demand is weaker during the summer months and so it almost always put on sale, but typically not until early summer (I often pick up my summer TATL First/Business tickets on BA in about June for July/August). As summer is stronger demand for the cheap seats the delta between economy and business can be very narrow indeed during this time.

[waterbug123]

18 hours ago, Eli_6 said:

 

Although, are you all saying the black out dates make it difficult to travel?

 

 

Depends on the airline and the type of "miles" or "points" being used.  Some have blackout dates, some don't, but may simply change the miles needed based on supply and demand, ergo flying at a popular time can cost more miles/points.  Whenever you are using miles or points to book a ticket, or buying an upgrade, or using a frequent flyer program upgrade certificate, the more flexible you can be, the better.  It can be difficult to set dates for travel, such as. family going on spring break, and then try to find deals to match your date.  Much easier if you don't have schedule limitations and can find the best deal to some general part of the world in some general time of the year, and then plan your trip around the "deal."  Obviously though, that is easier said than done depending on individual circumstances.

[Eli_6]

17 hours ago, scottbee said:

 

Firstly, you don't want to look at SOU unless your cruise is out of Southampton (which a lot of UK cruises are).

 

To Dover, LGW/Gatwick is closer, but you're going to find more international flights into LHR/Heathrow; so it's a bit of "take your pick".

 

As for prices, you're flying to the UK during the one of the world's largest sporting events , Euro2020 Jun 12 - Jul 12.  Looks like evrything to Europe is expensive.

 

 

Aah! I see.  That makes sense.  I have no clue what that is, but I know how much tickets go up during the Master's.  My husband and I were looking at a hotel for Augusta to go to Masters and it was $900 a night for a Holiday Inn Express. 😳 We are getting a house off VRBO instead (it's cheaper) since my husband, me, my two kids and in-laws are all going.   

[Eli_6]

12 hours ago, fbgd said:

 

That's why it was so cheap before...traditionally transatlantic premium cabin demand is weaker during the summer months and so it almost always put on sale, but typically not until early summer (I often pick up my summer TATL First/Business tickets on BA in about June for July/August). As summer is stronger demand for the cheap seats the delta between economy and business can be very narrow indeed during this time.

Thanks for the advice!  Will definitely look into it.  I think one time several years ago we even upgraded at the gate between premium economy and business on BA, but that was a few years ago. 

[Gardyloo]

You might also monitor this board on Flyertalk - https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premium-fare-deals-740/ .  The wonks there usually spot the good pointy-end deals before anybody else.  

 

The cheap business class seats to Europe during the summer (usually July-August, but sometimes June) generally start appearing in late March to mid-April, which might be too close for comfort for you, but worth considering.