Coronavirus

[Bobal]

11 minutes ago, travelberlin said:

Just in case you wish to know how the virus has developed in Italy:

 

https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/

 

These figures are out of date. Latest figures in Italy just released 1128 infected, 29 dead now

[Grandma Cruising]

Just to re-iterate Celebrity & RCCL have pulled ships out of the area that were doing multi- cruises in Asia including to ports in China.   Azamara is in a very different position - it has one ship that has to get from Australia to the Mediterranean. I can understand their reluctance to move disembarkation/ embarkation from Singapore to another port only to find in a couple weeks that the new port becomes a hotspot for the virus. However I do feel they should consider giving future cruise credits to people who feel uncomfortable with the current situation.

[sunlover33]

5 minutes ago, Host Grandma Cruising said:

Just to re-iterate Celebrity & RCCL have pulled ships out of the area that were doing multi- cruises in Asia including to ports in China.   Azamara is in a very different position - it has one ship that has to get from Australia to the Mediterranean. I can understand their reluctance to move disembarkation/ embarkation from Singapore to another port only to find in a couple weeks that the new port becomes a hotspot for the virus. However I do feel they should consider giving future cruise credits to people who feel uncomfortable with the current situation.

I agree, I have no concerns re the virus itself, but I do hope that Azamara will check before we embark that we will be accepted in the planned ports having travelled from Singapore.  This would be a very expensive cruise to sail from Singapore to Dubai without seeing anything. 

[yogagal47]

I wonder if they have seen this:

 

Passengers on Cruise Ships

U.S. citizens should reconsider travel by cruise ship to or within Asia. U.S. citizens planning travel by cruise ship elsewhere should be aware that, due to the current public health situation, many countries have implemented strict screening procedures in order to prevent the spread of the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19. This is a dynamic situation and U.S. citizens traveling by ship may be impacted by travel restrictions affecting their itineraries or ability to disembark, or may be subject to quarantine procedures implemented by the local authorities. While the U.S. government has successfully evacuated hundreds of our citizens in the previous weeks, repatriation flights should not be relied upon as an option for U.S. citizens under the potential risk of quarantine by local authorities. U.S. citizens should evaluate the risks associated with choosing to remain in an area that may be subject to quarantine and take the appropriate proactive measures. Passengers who plan to travel by cruise ship should contact their cruise line companies directly for further information on the current rules and restrictions, and continue to monitor the Travel.state.gov website and see the latest information from the CDC: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/cruise-ship-asia.

[Vgroom]

I would email this  to Azamara and see what their reply is.  Such an anxious time for us all. 
V

[difranco]

With this rapidly expanding virus there is now the possibility of being denied entry back to your country of residence. As I type President Trump is about to start a press conference detailing possible partial closure of the Mexican border. Other countries will be preparing to close borders in the coming weeks. Who wants to be stuck on a cruise ship with multiple nationalities and no where to go. We are booked on the Quest 14th April Athens return, Israel intensive. Personally I can’t see it happening as there are indications of a European travel ban over the Easter holidays in a bid to control the virus.

Last week this sort of idea would be scare mongering but after the escalation of deaths in Italy today it is becoming a reality.

Fortunately we haven’t booked any flights, hotels or transfers so if the opportunity arises to cancel with a full refund we will be like a rat up a drain pipe.

 

[Janet&David]

Of course it’s everybody’s individual choice, but I think it’s hard to see how cancelling late as some people have suggested and losing 75% (or 100%) of the cost would ever be the right thing to do. We were booked on an Oceania cruise from Japan to Singapore (via China, Vietnam, Taiwan) due to sail on April 13. Oceania first changed the itinerary significantly (including introducing a stop in South Korea, the country with by far the most COVID-19 cases outside of China) but dug their heels in about cancellation. Eventually they abandoned this, cancelled all cruises in the area until June (although this is bound to be extended) and gave full refunds plus 25% FCC.

 

We then booked on Azamara from Dubai to Greece, sailing on April 26 in the hope of one last chance of enjoying a cruise before the global situation gets even worse. If this still sails with the planned itinerary we’ll be on it, even though the previous cruise will have been from Singapore. However, I think there is a strong likelihood that this cruise will be cancelled too. One of the experts from the World Health Organisation commented in relation to the Diamond Princess that this showed that if you wanted to create a perfect environment for spreading a new virus it would be a cruise ship. I think that all the cruise companies will soon have to cancel all cruises that have any measurable risk. Obviously all of the Far East, including Singapore will be high risk. But now Italy has the third highest number of cases after China and South Korea. Italy has borders with no controls (you don’t even need to slow down on the highway as you cross the border – this is how the European Union works) with France, Switzerland, Austria and Slovenia which in turn have seamless borders with rest of Europe. Travellers from Italy have now resulted in cases in France and Croatia (so that’s cruises to the Med under threat), the Canaries (another popular cruise destination), Netherlands, Denmark, Germany and the UK (so that’s northern Europe cruises affected too), Israel and Nigeria.

 

I’d guess that cruises in the Caribbean will be OK for the next 3 months or so, but when the virus has become established there (and in the USA) they’ll be affected too. Hopefully there’ll be a vaccine by the end of the 2020 and the virus will be history by mid 2021 (with a vaccine) or sometime in 2022 without a vaccine. The cruise industry will just have to suck it up. Shareholders will have a rough ride for a couple of years but the people to be sorry for are the staff, particularly the low paid serving crew. One or two of the less profitable/financially secure cruise lines will probably go under and their ships will be bought up by the large cruise line groups.

 

Others in this discussion have commented on the risks of litigation if Azamara push ahead with risky cruises. I think this is a very good point. Any cruise line that ended up with another Diamond Princess on its hands (Italy has only just overtaken the ship in terms of numbers of cases) having gone into it with their eyes open (Princess could at least plead ignorance) is going to end up in court. Even worse, in a way, was the Holland America Westerdam. Having unadvisedly taken on board 800 passengers in China after news of the virus first emerged, it was obliged to roam aimlessly for 2 weeks with no port willing to accept it, even though there wasn’t a single case of the disease on board. If an Azamara ship takes on anyone from a high risk country (which will be the next one after Italy?) then they could be in the same boat, literally.

 

Our cruise starts in Dubai – currently 19 cases to date (about the same as the UK) but as an international hub it could increase rapidly and/or tighten the rules about who can enter the country by air or sea. Similarly our final destination, Athens, with currently only 4 cases could tighten up controls to avoid going the same way as Italy. So there you go. I think our cruise will be cancelled but if it goes ahead with a more or less unchanged itinerary, we will be on it.

 

I see that there is at least one other person from the UK in this discussion. It’s worth noting that under UK law we have additional protection in this situation. In the UK if you book a ‘package’ holiday, including a cruise, and there is a ‘significant’ change to the holiday then the travel agent (or cruise company if you booked directly) must return the full cost of the holiday to you. For it to be a ‘package’ the booking must include flights and cruise – if it’s just the cruise the law doesn’t apply. There is no definition of ‘significant’ in the legislation. Changing one port wouldn’t qualify but changing a number of ports and/or the start or end ports probably would. With our proposed cruise of the Far East, Oceania had removed calls to 2 ports in China, plus Taiwan and Hong Kong and added ports in the remaining countries plus a previously unscheduled stop in South Korea (that would have worked out well!). These were clearly significant changes and we confirmed that we had a right to cancel with our TA. As it happened, the day we phoned our TA to cancel was they day that Oceania blinked first and cancelled the cruise (which also gave us the FCC, although as this has to be used by the end of 2020 it’s probably not much use). If the Azamara cruise changes significantly in advance (for example if it ends up being 2 weeks at sea with no ports of call!) I wouldn’t hesitate to cancel again. If you’re in Australia or Canada it may be worth checking if you have similar legislation. I presume it’s not quite the same case in the USA or someone would have mentioned it (and for the Oceania cruise US travellers didn’t seem able to cancel even after the itinerary changes) although Azamara seems to have acknowledged that changes in itinerary may mean you can cancel in some circumstances.

 

Anyway, let’s hope it works out OK for all of us. If you’re on the Dubai-Athens cruise and it goes ahead more-or-less in line with the planned itinerary, we may see you aboard.

[Vgroom]

I don’t blame you.  What do we have to do to make Azamara do the right and proper thing for its customers now and in the future! 

[Vgroom]

11 minutes ago, Janet&David said:

Of course it’s everybody’s individual choice, but I think it’s hard to see how cancelling late as some people have suggested and losing 75% (or 100%) of the cost would ever be the right thing to do. We were booked on an Oceania cruise from Japan to Singapore (via China, Vietnam, Taiwan) due to sail on April 13. Oceania first changed the itinerary significantly (including introducing a stop in South Korea, the country with by far the most COVID-19 cases outside of China) but dug their heels in about cancellation. Eventually they abandoned this, cancelled all cruises in the area until June (although this is bound to be extended) and gave full refunds plus 25% FCC.

 

We then booked on Azamara from Dubai to Greece, sailing on April 26 in the hope of one last chance of enjoying a cruise before the global situation gets even worse. If this still sails with the planned itinerary we’ll be on it, even though the previous cruise will have been from Singapore. However, I think there is a strong likelihood that this cruise will be cancelled too. One of the experts from the World Health Organisation commented in relation to the Diamond Princess that this showed that if you wanted to create a perfect environment for spreading a new virus it would be a cruise ship. I think that all the cruise companies will soon have to cancel all cruises that have any measurable risk. Obviously all of the Far East, including Singapore will be high risk. But now Italy has the third highest number of cases after China and South Korea. Italy has borders with no controls (you don’t even need to slow down on the highway as you cross the border – this is how the European Union works) with France, Switzerland, Austria and Slovenia which in turn have seamless borders with rest of Europe. Travellers from Italy have now resulted in cases in France and Croatia (so that’s cruises to the Med under threat), the Canaries (another popular cruise destination), Netherlands, Denmark, Germany and the UK (so that’s northern Europe cruises affected too), Israel and Nigeria.

 

I’d guess that cruises in the Caribbean will be OK for the next 3 months or so, but when the virus has become established there (and in the USA) they’ll be affected too. Hopefully there’ll be a vaccine by the end of the 2020 and the virus will be history by mid 2021 (with a vaccine) or sometime in 2022 without a vaccine. The cruise industry will just have to suck it up. Shareholders will have a rough ride for a couple of years but the people to be sorry for are the staff, particularly the low paid serving crew. One or two of the less profitable/financially secure cruise lines will probably go under and their ships will be bought up by the large cruise line groups.

 

Others in this discussion have commented on the risks of litigation if Azamara push ahead with risky cruises. I think this is a very good point. Any cruise line that ended up with another Diamond Princess on its hands (Italy has only just overtaken the ship in terms of numbers of cases) having gone into it with their eyes open (Princess could at least plead ignorance) is going to end up in court. Even worse, in a way, was the Holland America Westerdam. Having unadvisedly taken on board 800 passengers in China after news of the virus first emerged, it was obliged to roam aimlessly for 2 weeks with no port willing to accept it, even though there wasn’t a single case of the disease on board. If an Azamara ship takes on anyone from a high risk country (which will be the next one after Italy?) then they could be in the same boat, literally.

 

Our cruise starts in Dubai – currently 19 cases to date (about the same as the UK) but as an international hub it could increase rapidly and/or tighten the rules about who can enter the country by air or sea. Similarly our final destination, Athens, with currently only 4 cases could tighten up controls to avoid going the same way as Italy. So there you go. I think our cruise will be cancelled but if it goes ahead with a more or less unchanged itinerary, we will be on it.

 

I see that there is at least one other person from the UK in this discussion. It’s worth noting that under UK law we have additional protection in this situation. In the UK if you book a ‘package’ holiday, including a cruise, and there is a ‘significant’ change to the holiday then the travel agent (or cruise company if you booked directly) must return the full cost of the holiday to you. For it to be a ‘package’ the booking must include flights and cruise – if it’s just the cruise the law doesn’t apply. There is no definition of ‘significant’ in the legislation. Changing one port wouldn’t qualify but changing a number of ports and/or the start or end ports probably would. With our proposed cruise of the Far East, Oceania had removed calls to 2 ports in China, plus Taiwan and Hong Kong and added ports in the remaining countries plus a previously unscheduled stop in South Korea (that would have worked out well!). These were clearly significant changes and we confirmed that we had a right to cancel with our TA. As it happened, the day we phoned our TA to cancel was they day that Oceania blinked first and cancelled the cruise (which also gave us the FCC, although as this has to be used by the end of 2020 it’s probably not much use). If the Azamara cruise changes significantly in advance (for example if it ends up being 2 weeks at sea with no ports of call!) I wouldn’t hesitate to cancel again. If you’re in Australia or Canada it may be worth checking if you have similar legislation. I presume it’s not quite the same case in the USA or someone would have mentioned it (and for the Oceania cruise US travellers didn’t seem able to cancel even after the itinerary changes) although Azamara seems to have acknowledged that changes in itinerary may mean you can cancel in some circumstances.

 

Anyway, let’s hope it works out OK for all of us. If you’re on the Dubai-Athens cruise and it goes ahead more-or-less in line with the planned itinerary, we may see you aboard.

Good advice Janet and David 

V

[JDClever]

2 hours ago, Janet&David said:

Of course it’s everybody’s individual choice, but I think it’s hard to see how cancelling late as some people have suggested and losing 75% (or 100%) of the cost would ever be the right thing to do. We were booked on an Oceania cruise from Japan to Singapore (via China, Vietnam, Taiwan) due to sail on April 13. Oceania first changed the itinerary significantly (including introducing a stop in South Korea, the country with by far the most COVID-19 cases outside of China) but dug their heels in about cancellation. Eventually they abandoned this, cancelled all cruises in the area until June (although this is bound to be extended) and gave full refunds plus 25% FCC.

 

We then booked on Azamara from Dubai to Greece, sailing on April 26 in the hope of one last chance of enjoying a cruise before the global situation gets even worse. If this still sails with the planned itinerary we’ll be on it, even though the previous cruise will have been from Singapore. However, I think there is a strong likelihood that this cruise will be cancelled too. One of the experts from the World Health Organisation commented in relation to the Diamond Princess that this showed that if you wanted to create a perfect environment for spreading a new virus it would be a cruise ship. I think that all the cruise companies will soon have to cancel all cruises that have any measurable risk. Obviously all of the Far East, including Singapore will be high risk. But now Italy has the third highest number of cases after China and South Korea. Italy has borders with no controls (you don’t even need to slow down on the highway as you cross the border – this is how the European Union works) with France, Switzerland, Austria and Slovenia which in turn have seamless borders with rest of Europe. Travellers from Italy have now resulted in cases in France and Croatia (so that’s cruises to the Med under threat), the Canaries (another popular cruise destination), Netherlands, Denmark, Germany and the UK (so that’s northern Europe cruises affected too), Israel and Nigeria.

 

I’d guess that cruises in the Caribbean will be OK for the next 3 months or so, but when the virus has become established there (and in the USA) they’ll be affected too. Hopefully there’ll be a vaccine by the end of the 2020 and the virus will be history by mid 2021 (with a vaccine) or sometime in 2022 without a vaccine. The cruise industry will just have to suck it up. Shareholders will have a rough ride for a couple of years but the people to be sorry for are the staff, particularly the low paid serving crew. One or two of the less profitable/financially secure cruise lines will probably go under and their ships will be bought up by the large cruise line groups.

 

Others in this discussion have commented on the risks of litigation if Azamara push ahead with risky cruises. I think this is a very good point. Any cruise line that ended up with another Diamond Princess on its hands (Italy has only just overtaken the ship in terms of numbers of cases) having gone into it with their eyes open (Princess could at least plead ignorance) is going to end up in court. Even worse, in a way, was the Holland America Westerdam. Having unadvisedly taken on board 800 passengers in China after news of the virus first emerged, it was obliged to roam aimlessly for 2 weeks with no port willing to accept it, even though there wasn’t a single case of the disease on board. If an Azamara ship takes on anyone from a high risk country (which will be the next one after Italy?) then they could be in the same boat, literally.

 

Our cruise starts in Dubai – currently 19 cases to date (about the same as the UK) but as an international hub it could increase rapidly and/or tighten the rules about who can enter the country by air or sea. Similarly our final destination, Athens, with currently only 4 cases could tighten up controls to avoid going the same way as Italy. So there you go. I think our cruise will be cancelled but if it goes ahead with a more or less unchanged itinerary, we will be on it.

 

I see that there is at least one other person from the UK in this discussion. It’s worth noting that under UK law we have additional protection in this situation. In the UK if you book a ‘package’ holiday, including a cruise, and there is a ‘significant’ change to the holiday then the travel agent (or cruise company if you booked directly) must return the full cost of the holiday to you. For it to be a ‘package’ the booking must include flights and cruise – if it’s just the cruise the law doesn’t apply. There is no definition of ‘significant’ in the legislation. Changing one port wouldn’t qualify but changing a number of ports and/or the start or end ports probably would. With our proposed cruise of the Far East, Oceania had removed calls to 2 ports in China, plus Taiwan and Hong Kong and added ports in the remaining countries plus a previously unscheduled stop in South Korea (that would have worked out well!). These were clearly significant changes and we confirmed that we had a right to cancel with our TA. As it happened, the day we phoned our TA to cancel was they day that Oceania blinked first and cancelled the cruise (which also gave us the FCC, although as this has to be used by the end of 2020 it’s probably not much use). If the Azamara cruise changes significantly in advance (for example if it ends up being 2 weeks at sea with no ports of call!) I wouldn’t hesitate to cancel again. If you’re in Australia or Canada it may be worth checking if you have similar legislation. I presume it’s not quite the same case in the USA or someone would have mentioned it (and for the Oceania cruise US travellers didn’t seem able to cancel even after the itinerary changes) although Azamara seems to have acknowledged that changes in itinerary may mean you can cancel in some circumstances.

 

Anyway, let’s hope it works out OK for all of us. If you’re on the Dubai-Athens cruise and it goes ahead more-or-less in line with the planned itinerary, we may see you aboard.

   We're on the Dubai to Athens cruise on the Quest on 28 March.  Our excursions from Alexandria to Cairo were cancelled and we were not informed.  There is now a pop-up warning on the excursions page.  See below.  Someone else from the CC thread contacted Azamara and was told the tour vendor cancelled the excursions because cruise ship passengers would not be allowed into Cairo.  They have made no attempt to contact us about this - so I have our travel agent contacting them about it.  There is no way to confirm this.  And it makes us wonder if other port countries will treat us as floating leper colony and just say 'no thank you, stay onboard'...

 

We had a 2nd excursion planned to the Dead Sea out of Aqaba in Jordan and it was also cancelled without us knowing 4 days ago.  No idea why.  

 

The person that contacted Azamara asked about a refund or discount and they were firm that as the itinerary hasn't changed there would be nothing.  What does it mean though when you book a cruise to see the pyramids and sphinx that they still advertise in the cruise description but they won't really take you there?  What about the other port in Egypt - Will we be able to see Luxor or is that excursion going to cancel?  We didn't sign up for a 17 day cruise to nowhere in particular.  And it seems if they stay the course, pun intended, by keeping all ports but seriously limiting excursions they think they can still expect full payment for the cruise.  That is shifty and leaves us disappointed.   All we want is a FCC equal to 100% of our investment.  We'll try again once the this settles down.  

 

Instead we feel compelled to find a route to Dubai and home from Athens that doesn't touch any hot spots - and I'm compelled because my employer has told me if I pass through any hot spots I have to self quarantine for 14 days when I return.  and without the offer of a FCC, I have to choose between losing about $2k in penalty or having my peace of mind that I'm not out in all that mess.   Airlines offer travel waivers - cruise lines should do the same thing.  

 

Now we get to see if having a travel agent is really a good thing or not....fingers crossed.

 

 

[sunlover33]

3 hours ago, Janet&David said:

 

 

We then booked on Azamara from Dubai to Greece, sailing on April 26 in the hope of one last chance of enjoying a cruise before the global situation gets even worse. If this still sails with the planned itinerary we’ll be on it, even though the previous cruise will have been from Singapore. However, I think there is a strong likelihood that this cruise will be cancelled too. One of the experts from the World Health Organisation commented in relation to the Diamond Princess that this showed that if you wanted to create a perfect environment for spreading a new virus it would be a cruise ship. I think that all the cruise companies will soon have to cancel all cruises that have any measurable risk. Obviously all of the Far East, including Singapore will be high risk. But now Italy has the third highest number of cases after China and South Korea. Italy has borders with no controls (you don’t even need to slow down on the highway as you cross the border – this is how the European Union works) with France, Switzerland, Austria and Slovenia which in turn have seamless borders with rest of Europe. Travellers from Italy have now resulted in cases in France and Croatia (so that’s cruises to the Med under threat), the Canaries (another popular cruise destination), Netherlands, Denmark, Germany and the UK (so that’s northern Europe cruises affected too), Israel and Nigeria.

 

I’d guess that cruises in the Caribbean will be OK for the next 3 months or so, but when the virus has become established there (and in the USA) they’ll be affected too. Hopefully there’ll be a vaccine by the end of the 2020 and the virus will be history by mid 2021 (with a vaccine) or sometime in 2022 without a vaccine. The cruise industry will just have to suck it up. Shareholders will have a rough ride for a couple of years but the people to be sorry for are the staff, particularly the low paid serving crew. One or two of the less profitable/financially secure cruise lines will probably go under and their ships will be bought up by the large cruise line groups.

 

I see that there is at least one other person from the UK in this discussion. It’s worth noting that under UK law we have additional protection in this situation. In the UK if you book a ‘package’ holiday, including a cruise, and there is a ‘significant’ change to the holiday then the travel agent (or cruise company if you booked directly) must return the full cost of the holiday to you. For it to be a ‘package’ the booking must include flights and cruise – if it’s just the cruise the law doesn’t apply. There is no definition of ‘significant’ in the legislation. Changing one port wouldn’t qualify but changing a number of ports and/or the start or end ports probably would. 

We are on the Singapore to Dubai leg of the cruise. An interesting discussion re significant change. 
http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/359686/coronavirus-what-are-the-legal-implications-for-package-tour-organisers

 

[Janet&David]

48 minutes ago, sunlover33 said:

We are on the Singapore to Dubai leg of the cruise. An interesting discussion re significant change. 
http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/359686/coronavirus-what-are-the-legal-implications-for-package-tour-organisers

 

Yes, interesting. To get really nerdy, here is an extract from the relevant section of the Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018:

“Alteration of other package travel contract terms

11.—(1) The provisions of this regulation are implied as a term in every package travel contract.

(2) The organiser must not unilaterally change the terms of a package travel contract before the start of the package, other than the price in accordance with regulation 10, unless—

(a) the contract allows the organiser to make such changes;

(b) the change is insignificant; and

(c) the organiser informs the traveller of the change in a clear, comprehensible and prominent manner on a durable medium.

(3) Paragraphs (4) to (11) apply where, before the start of the package, the organiser—

(a) is constrained by circumstances beyond the control of the organiser to alter significantly any of the main characteristics of the travel services specified in paragraphs 1 to 10 of Schedule 1;

(b) cannot fulfil the special requirements specified in paragraph 1 of Schedule 5; or

(c) proposes to increase the price of the package by more than 8% in accordance with regulation 10(4) .

(4) The organiser must, without undue delay, inform the traveller in a clear, comprehensible and prominent manner on a durable medium, of—

(a) the proposed changes referred to in paragraph (3) and, where appropriate, in accordance with paragraph (7) , their impact on the price of the package;

(b) a reasonable period within which the traveller must inform the organiser of the decision pursuant to paragraph (5) ;

(c) the consequences of the traveller’s failure to respond within the period referred to in sub-paragraph (b) ; and

(d) any substitute package, of an equivalent or higher quality, if possible, offered to the traveller and its price.

(5) The traveller may, within a reasonable period specified by the organiser—

(a) accept the proposed changes; or

(b) terminate the contract without paying a termination fee.

(6) Where the traveller terminates the contract pursuant to paragraph (5) (b) , the traveller may accept a substitute package, where this is offered by the organiser.

(7) Where—

(a) the changes to the package travel contract referred to in paragraph (3) , or

(b) the substitute package referred to in paragraph (6) ,

result in a package of lower quality or cost, the traveller is entitled to an appropriate price reduction.

(8) Where—

(a) the traveller terminates the contract pursuant to paragraph (5) (b) , and

(b) the traveller does not accept a substitute package,

the organiser must refund all payments made by or on behalf of the traveller without undue delay and in any event not later than 14 days after the contract is terminated.

(9) Where paragraph (8) applies, regulation 16(2) to (10) applies.

(10) Where the traveller does not confirm, within the period specified in paragraph (5) , whether the traveller wishes to—

(a) accept the proposed change, or

(b) terminate the contract,

in accordance with that paragraph, the organiser must notify the traveller, a second time, of the matters in sub-paragraphs (a) to (d) of paragraph (4) .

(11) If, having been notified under paragraph (10) , the traveller fails to respond, the organiser may terminate the contract and refund all payments made by or on behalf of the traveller without undue delay and in any event not later than 14 days after the contract is terminated.”

 

 

A couple of key points to note:

11. (2) (b) – the onus is on the package organiser to demonstrate/prove that the change is “insignificant”, not on the traveller to prove that it is significant.

11. (3) (a) – the obligations on the package organiser apply even if the organiser is constrained by circumstances beyond the control of the organiser – so they can’t use a global pandemic to try to get out of their obligations

 

As per JDClever’s post, even if the ship goes to the planned ports, if there are likely to be no or few opportunities to get off the ship and see anything then that probably constitutes a significant change.

As I said in my earlier post, when almost half the ports on our previous cruise were changed it was unarguable that the changes were significant. Let’s hope we don’t have to put this to the test for the next cruise.

[katiebeth]

Well, the fact that the CDC is cautioning against ANY cruises to Asia and the United States government is requesting that travel be curtailed and warning that there are no guarantees of regaining entry into the U.S. should you travel to an area impacted by the coronavirus .......

4 hours ago, yogagal47 said:

I wonder if they have seen this:

 

Passengers on Cruise Ships

U.S. citizens should reconsider travel by cruise ship to or within Asia. U.S. citizens planning travel by cruise ship elsewhere should be aware that, due to the current public health situation, many countries have implemented strict screening procedures in order to prevent the spread of the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19. This is a dynamic situation and U.S. citizens traveling by ship may be impacted by travel restrictions affecting their itineraries or ability to disembark, or may be subject to quarantine procedures implemented by the local authorities. While the U.S. government has successfully evacuated hundreds of our citizens in the previous weeks, repatriation flights should not be relied upon as an option for U.S. citizens under the potential risk of quarantine by local authorities. U.S. citizens should evaluate the risks associated with choosing to remain in an area that may be subject to quarantine and take the appropriate proactive measures. Passengers who plan to travel by cruise ship should contact their cruise line companies directly for further information on the current rules and restrictions, and continue to monitor the Travel.state.gov website and see the latest information from the CDC: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/cruise-ship-asia.     

I believe this tells us everything we need to know ........why in the world would Azamara blatantly defy CDC recommendations?    In addition, passengers are at risk of being quarantined ANYWHERE and anytime during the cruise AND are at serious risk of not being able to re-enter the United States after traveling to or thru Asia!    Just crazy ......

[Bobal]

11 hours ago, sunlover33 said:

We are on the Singapore to Dubai leg of the cruise. An interesting discussion re significant change. 
http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/359686/coronavirus-what-are-the-legal-implications-for-package-tour-organisers

 

 

We are booked on a Seabourn cruise from Dubai to Athens in early May. I have been following what's happening on the previous cruises - it's also repositioning from Australia. The 2 cruises before should have been Sydney - Bali - Singapore - Dubai. They will now be Sydney - Darwin - Colombo - Dubai with (obviously) a number of port changes and a number of people, particularly Australians, wishing to cancel because of this. This is just for info to show how another cruise line has handled what is basically the same repositioning from Australia to Europe.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Bobal

[larhode]

15 hours ago, katiebeth said:

Well, the fact that the CDC is cautioning against ANY cruises to Asia and the United States government is requesting that travel be curtailed and warning that there are no guarantees of regaining entry into the U.S. should you travel to an area impacted by the coronavirus .......

I believe this tells us everything we need to know ........why in the world would Azamara blatantly defy CDC recommendations?    In addition, passengers are at risk of being quarantined ANYWHERE and anytime during the cruise AND are at serious risk of not being able to re-enter the United States after traveling to or thru Asia!    Just crazy ......

It is madness.  Azamara is behaving very badly. We are booked on the April 11 departure from Singapore and have decided it’s not worth the risk.  Azamara will do nothing for us. We didn’t ask for a refund, just a credit for a future trip.  The answer was No.  
one of my travel companions has a suppressed immune system due to a transplant, Azamara couldn’t care less.   

[Vgroom]

This is just shocking. I really hope they change their minds about this cruise! 

[yogagal47]

9 minutes ago, larhode said:

It is madness.  Azamara is behaving very badly. We are booked on the April 11 departure from Singapore and have decided it’s not worth the risk.  Azamara will do nothing for us. We didn’t ask for a refund, just a credit for a future trip.  The answer was No.  
one of my travel companions has a suppressed immune system due to a transplant, Azamara couldn’t care less.   

If people cancel voluntarily and take the loss that is better for them. They might wait to cancel until we’ve all gotten ourselves to Singapore. By then many people have canceled and taken the loss and they will not have to refund money to those who voluntarily canceled before Azamara did. I hate to be that cynical but if this is about dollars and cents rather than safety and customer service/ loyalty, then that would be the strategy. 😂

[Vgroom]

I would imagine this is the case.  They will be guided by their insurers.  🤬

[nordski]

1 hour ago, larhode said:

It is madness.  Azamara is behaving very badly. We are booked on the April 11 departure from Singapore and have decided it’s not worth the risk.  Azamara will do nothing for us. We didn’t ask for a refund, just a credit for a future trip.  The answer was No.  
one of my travel companions has a suppressed immune system due to a transplant, Azamara couldn’t care less.   

That is certainly a huge concern for someone with a depressed immune system.

 

Will a GP not write a note saying that, for health reasons, your companion should not be in that region?

 

At least in our case, that would trigger our travel insurance. Perhaps policies differ on this.

[sunlover33]

43 minutes ago, nordski said:

It is madness.  Azamara is behaving very badly. We are booked on the April 11 departure from Singapore and have decided it’s not worth the risk.  Azamara will do nothing for us. We didn’t ask for a refund, just a credit for a future trip.  The answer was No.  
one of my travel companions has a suppressed immune system due to a transplant, Azamara couldn’t care less.   

Azamara up is certainly doing nothing to enhance their friendly  caring image. Especially with someone who has such a clear cut case not to travel. Unfortunately health needs to come before money and in this instance I would certainly question the safety of someone travelling who is so immunocompromised. Can they not get support from their insurance policy. 

[nordski]

38 minutes ago, sunlover33 said:

Azamara up is certainly doing nothing to enhance their friendly  caring image. Especially with someone who has such a clear cut case not to travel. Unfortunately health needs to come before money and in this instance I would certainly question the safety of someone travelling who is so immunocompromised. Can they not get support from their insurance policy. 

 

Just to clarify, the quote you have linked to in #170 is not mine.

 

I too am wondering when travel insurance kicks in.

Edited March 1, 2020 by nordski

[CrusieToy]

On 2/28/2020 at 7:11 PM, Doh15 said:

I am curious what people who have deposits for the summer but could still largely get a refund are doing, or how they are thinking about it. 

 

Will the risk of quarantine be less as time passes, or is the prudent thing to do to try and get a refund and then wait and see about future travel? 

we are  no way  im traveling with theses people.  see  katiebeth's post below that is NO WAY to treat a CUSTOMER!!!

but seems to be the norm.  Am i missing something?   are there any good stories with their handeling of this problem?  sorry if I missed them  but  seems "too bad" from the cruise lines and "It;s not covered" from  the insureance companies

seemed to be the norm

[CrusieToy]

3 hours ago, yogagal47 said:

If people cancel voluntarily and take the loss that is better for them. They might wait to cancel until we’ve all gotten ourselves to Singapore. By then many people have canceled and taken the loss and they will not have to refund money to those who voluntarily canceled before Azamara did. I hate to be that cynical but if this is about dollars and cents rather than safety and customer service/ loyalty, then that would be the strategy. 😂

in the short term  we are canceling our first Azemera cruise   No way im traveling with these people.  We have taken 36 cruises in the last 10 years had 1 issue and Celebrity took care of it, it took a little work but they more than made up for it ...Azamara ha

[katiebeth]

This latest CDC warning regarding Singapore was issued on 2/28 ....I still cannot get my mind around the fact Azamara thinks this is okay ......maybe they should send their top executives and their families to "advance the trip" ahead of disembarkation/embarkation of the Journey on 4/11

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by katiebeth

[sunlover33]

20 minutes ago, katiebeth said:

This latest CDC warning regarding Singapore was issued on 2/28 ....I still cannot get my mind around the fact Azamara thinks this is okay ......maybe they should send their top executives and their families to "advance the trip" ahead of disembarkation/embarkation of the Journey on 4/11

However to put it in perspective Singapore has 102 confirmed cases following vigorous gold standard testing and contact tracing and no deaths. The USA already has 72 confirmed cases, (no mention of how many people have actually been tested)  and already have one death. This virus is worldwide and the numbers sometimes indicate how active  a country is managing the disease. Singapore seem to have a good  handle on managing and containing this. 
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-the-infection-numbers-in-real-time-11942138

Edited March 1, 2020 by sunlover33