Coronavirus

[Vgroom]

The issue may not be with Singapore but with the possibility of someone passing screening to get onboard only to show symptoms 7 dats later.  
It also may be the fact that if anyone feels unwell we may not be able to be accepted at out ports of call.  There are too many risk factors involved and some may be happy to put themselves in this situation but I and many others clearly are not.  
I wonder just how many cabins are filled.  Maybe they should consider the bigger picture and cut their losses! 

[garlinn]

20 minutes ago, sunlover33 said:

However to put it in perspective Singapore has 102 confirmed cases following vigorous gold standard testing and contact tracing and no deaths. The USA already has 72 confirmed cases, (no mention of how many people have actually been tested)  and already have one death. This virus is worldwide and the numbers sometimes indicate how active  a country is managing the disease. Singapore seem to have a good  handle on managing and containing this. 
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-the-infection-numbers-in-real-time-11942138

If you want to put it in perspective you need to consider:

 

Population US 335M Singapore 5.6M

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by garlinn

[katiebeth]

18 minutes ago, sunlover33 said:

However to put it in perspective Singapore has 102 confirmed cases following vigorous gold standard testing and contact tracing and no deaths. The USA already has 72 confirmed cases, (no mention of how many people have actually been tested)  and already have one death. This virus is worldwide and the numbers sometimes indicate how active  a country is managing the disease. Singapore seem to have a good  handle on managing and containing this. 
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-the-infection-numbers-in-real-time-11942138

 

I understand ....however,  the CDC has issued a warning to all U.S. citizens cautioning them not to take a cruise in or out or thru Asia period ......in addition, they stated that if you do .....you are at risk of being quarantined ANYTIME and ANYWHERE ....as well as risking not being able to re-enter the United States for an unspecified time.  My husband is a small business owner and could barely squeeze out enough time for the cruise, being stuck indefinitely in another country or even in the U.S. would be devastating for his business.    As an extremely seasoned cruiser and loyal to RCCL, Celebrity, and Azamara since 2003, cruising all over the world,  I am just flabbergasted at Azamara's lack of response or action ....other than form letters and pre-written responses from representatives on the phone basically saying we are stuck with the cruise fare ....even though Delta has fully refunded our airfare as we were routed thru Singapore to Seoul South Korea and then Atlanta on the return.   

We would be satisfied with a future cruise credit ....we are not asking for a refund. 

 

We do have cruise insurance thru CSA but they are not being very helpful either.

Edited March 1, 2020 by katiebeth

[uktog]

8 minutes ago, katiebeth said:

 

 

 

We do have cruise insurance thru CSA but they are not being very helpful either.

Be careful not to confuse not actually knowing what steps would be appropriate so far ahead with being unhelpful.  To be honest as far as I can see most guidance is only pitching forward 10-14 days.  Its not easy, I am caught up unable to work because of it but its a case of sit and see.

[sunlover33]

28 minutes ago, garlinn said:

If you want to put it in perspective you need to consider:

 

Population US 335M Singapore 5.6M

Yes but if they  tested an equivalent number how many more cases does the US actually have? 
https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/spores-gold-standard-covid-19-detection-far-more-effective-picking-cases-rest-world

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/01/coronavirus-live-updates/

 

No one really knows how many cases are in each country, it’s down to the  and efficiency of individual countries,   but I would think the numbers in some countries are far far higher than reported. 

 

[larhode]

2 hours ago, sunlover33 said:

However to put it in perspective Singapore has 102 confirmed cases following vigorous gold standard testing and contact tracing and no deaths. The USA already has 72 confirmed cases, (no mention of how many people have actually been tested)  and already have one death. This virus is worldwide and the numbers sometimes indicate how active  a country is managing the disease. Singapore seem to have a good  handle on managing and containing this. 
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-the-infection-numbers-in-real-time-11942138

Singapore covers 276 square miles.  The USA 3,797,000 square miles 

Singapore has .37 cases per square mile

The USA has .000018 cases per square mile. 

 

But as you mentioned, the virus is worldwide.  Non essential travel just about anywhere is somewhat risky.  And the US State Department has advised citizens not to travel by cruise ship to or from Singapore, and several other countries.   The statement basically said you're on your own should things go badly.  I don't want to end up restricted to my cabin floating around in the Persion Gulf or worse, in a hospital in India.   As you mentioned, Singapore has done a good job limiting the viral spread and yet they still have cases.  Other countries such as the UAE don't have the same reputation.  What happens if only one passenger gets sick during our voyage, do you think Dubai will let us dock?   Or what if Dubai decides, after we depart Singapore, to not let cruise ships from Asia dock.  Oman and Kuwait have already done this.  Then we end up floating around aimlessly looking for someone to take us, while quarantined to our cabins.   Sounds like a lot of fun.  Maybe Somalia will take us.  

 

The unknowns and risks are just too great, I'm shocked Azamara doesn't just bite the bullet and either cancel, or issue a refund to those not wanting to take the risk.  Think of the liability they are opening themselves to.  If another Diamond Princess situation should occur, Azamara would get a huge amount of bad press.   After the Diamond Princess incident, how many people do you think will ever want to book a trip on that ship.   They might as well sink the thing and turn it into an artificial reef.  If Azamara doesn't care about their passengers safety, you'd think they might at least want to protect their corporate image. 

 

In our case, we didn't ask for a refund, just a credit for a future trip, and they told us (politely) to go pound sand.   It's really sad because we were really looking forward to this trip.  Now I doubt we will ever again cruise with Azamara. 

 

[nordski]

3 hours ago, katiebeth said:

 

We do have cruise insurance thru CSA but they are not being very helpful either.

 

Actually the insurance issue would be most important to me.

 

Given the CDC’s warnings how does the company justify this?

[txlibrarian]

It is unfortunate that Azamara did not offer you a credit because we had planned to ask for that option ourselves.  I am diabetic and had a bout with sepsis in November so the trip poses a great health risk for me.  People can say anything and  everything to justify travel in any part of Asia (and other highly infected areas) at this time, but the facts are that there are still too many unknowns about this virus.  There are cases in every port of the trip.  We would have to fly through Tokyo's airport to get to Singapore and I am wary of airports even when there is no epidemic. Experts are not totally sure how it is transmitted and there are likely many more unreported cases around the world ,since they continue to appear every day.  If I stay around home and still get the virus, at least I will be able to go to my local hospital where I will have confidence in the care I will get.  I think Azamara is being irresponsible to both the cruisers and their crew. When we booked the cruise and made our final payment there was no public awareness of coronavirus.  If there was a problem on Azamara's end, they would not hesitate to change the itinerary or cancel the cruise and issue a refund , so they know there are times when this needs to be done.  Well this is one of those times.  I know some cruisers are looking forward to the cruise so the  equitable solution would be to go forward with cruise and offer refunds to those who do not want to risk their lives because of an unexpected  predicament beyond their control.

[snowglobe]

20 minutes ago, nordski said:

 

Actually the insurance issue would be most important to me.

 

Given the CDC’s warnings how does the company justify this?

Pre-existing conditions.

If you are at greater risk from Covid-19, then it’s because of “pre-existing conditions”...

[Baynanno1]

12 minutes ago, snowglobe said:

Pre-existing conditions.

If you are at greater risk from Covid-19, then it’s because of “pre-existing conditions”...

 

Some pre-existing conditions are covered. Just what is covered depends on disclosure on the part of the insured and whether or not declared conditions are covered by that particular insurer.

If a pre-existing condition is not declared at the time of taking out the insurance it is highly unlikely to be covered.

[nordski]

1 hour ago, Baynanno1 said:

 

Some pre-existing conditions are covered. Just what is covered depends on disclosure on the part of the insured and whether or not declared conditions are covered by that particular insurer.

If a pre-existing condition is not declared at the time of taking out the insurance it is highly unlikely to be covered.

Ahh, that’s interesting. 

 

In our case the insurer only wishes to know about a pre-existing condition that has  not been “stabilized” for 90 days.  Perhaps that’s a feature of being covered within a professional group.

 

Medjet Assist, which is purely for evacuation, does not concern itself with pre-existing conditions until you are 75.

 

I will note that a few months ago Medjet sent a message that they would not cover evacuation where Covid-19 was a problem. At that time it was primarily China. They did not offer reimbursement to people who had purchased their insurance with China as a planned destination.

 

Regardless, we have probably strayed off the original topic and I apologize for that.

 

[Brisbanelionsfan]

12 hours ago, yogagal47 said:

If people cancel voluntarily and take the loss that is better for them. They might wait to cancel until we’ve all gotten ourselves to Singapore. By then many people have canceled and taken the loss and they will not have to refund money to those who voluntarily canceled before Azamara did. I hate to be that cynical but if this is about dollars and cents rather than safety and customer service/ loyalty, then that would be the strategy. 😂

I agree completely, this was my first thought too, just let everyone cancel and lose their money, then at the last minute cancel the cruise.  😡😡

[Liquid Amber]

We consider ourselves very level headed and not prone to panicking. We are also fortunate to be in good health.

 

We are booked to join Azamara in mid June sailing from Barcelona to Venice over a b2b. We are due to make our final payment in 3 weeks time. We have only paid a small deposit. Our main concern is that flights might be cancelled. We have booked our own flights and EasyJet have already cancelled many  flights to Italy. Today’s Italy could be tomorrow’s  Spain, or more importantly in the middle of June. But none of us have a cristal ball. If we cannot get to the ship on time we have lost our holiday. This is irrespective of what Azamara might do. Well, at least we have a few weeks to see how the situation is developing.

[sunlover33]

11 hours ago, larhode said:

The USA has .000018 cases per square mile. 

But only of the people tested, who knows how many cases are circulating and untested? However in your individual circumstance I do think Azamara are behaving very badly by not allowing you a future cruise credit, when you have a traveller in your party who is known to be immunosuppressed. 

[Vgroom]

I have just spoken to my travel agent and she seems to think that AZ will cancel at some point.  Fingers crossed she is right 

V

[Janet&David]

2 hours ago, Liquid Amber said:

We consider ourselves very level headed and not prone to panicking. We are also fortunate to be in good health.

 

We are booked to join Azamara in mid June sailing from Barcelona to Venice over a b2b. We are due to make our final payment in 3 weeks time. We have only paid a small deposit. Our main concern is that flights might be cancelled. We have booked our own flights and EasyJet have already cancelled many  flights to Italy. Today’s Italy could be tomorrow’s  Spain, or more importantly in the middle of June. But none of us have a cristal ball. If we cannot get to the ship on time we have lost our holiday. This is irrespective of what Azamara might do. Well, at least we have a few weeks to see how the situation is developing.

The 'Travel Advisory' section of the Azamara website states:

"Regardless of nationality, we will deny boarding to:

- Any guest who has traveled from, to or through mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau, Iran, South Korea, and the Italian regions of Emilia-Romagna, Lombardy, Veneto and Emilia-Romagna within 15 days of boarding.
- Any guest who has come in contact with anyone with 15-day prior travel to mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau, Iran, South Korea, and the Italian regions of Emilia-Romagna, Lombardy, and Veneto. The CDC characterizes contact with an individual as coming within six feet (2M) of a person.
- Guests who report feeling unwell or demonstrate any flu-like symptoms."

Presumably someone at Azamara has worked out that Venice is in the centre of the Veneto region (the clue's in the name) so it seems unlikely that any cruises will start, end or call into Venice until the 'crisis' is over. So your main challenge in terms of flights is probably working out which city you will be flying back from. 

That said, by mid-June things may to starting to settle down, if not back to normal then at least to a point where the world starts functioning again. Scotland's Chief Medical Officer made a very sensible and realistic statement today: "If this does spread throughout Scotland, it will become business as usual. It will become as we have with people with the flu that yes, some people are very ill, some people are less ill, we accept that and people get on with their normal business.” In many ways it will be more straightforward to manage the disease after it has taken hold than it is to try (almost certainly unsuccessfully) to prevent it spreading. While there may be fewer flights, there will probably be less demand, so hopefully you'll get fixed up.

If all else fails, you can get from London to Barcelona by train in about 10 hours or so with one change from under £100 per person, one way (although the quickest journeys tend to be more expensive).

Good luck

 

 

[uktog]

The CMO Scotland was also very sensible about the 2 metre rule in her statement yesterday.  She clearly said, you have to be within 2m of a person for at least 13 minutes to be at risk - you do not catch coronavirus just my walking past someone unless of course they sneeze at that moment.  So all this panic about if I walked passed someone at the airport who had transited from one of the affected areas I am not able to travel is not valid.

[sunlover33]

I do wonder with the increasing cases in Europe if Azamara are currently considering if it is worth transiting to Europe for the summer season,  they may be looking at where the least risk to cancellation may be and will change their itinerary to suit. I don’t envy that decision as the spread of this virus is so unpredictable,  and except for the  Artic region  it is pretty much widespread. It would be ironic if they decided to cruise around China in the coming months as their numbers are falling! 

Edited March 2, 2020 by sunlover33

[mwf7501]

We are booked on the May 4 departure on Pursuit, from Rome to Lisbon.

 

Is there any way to estimate whether that cruise will actually happen, or are there just too many variables, and we must just watch the news each day?

 

Also, we have put in a bid on a suite upgrade, and I am thinking I should just cancel that so as to cut my potential loss if the trip ends up a no-go, either by my choice, or by Azamara, or by the airlines, or by the various governments involved.   In a worst case (ie, no Azamara refund) we have trip insurance with Cancel-for-any-reason at 75% coverage.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.

 

Mark

[txlibrarian]

I do not intend to be the person to test that 2m, 13minute theory.

 

[yogagal47]

Here is another reason to fear for the safety of Cruise Ship passengers:

 

https://news.yahoo.com/police-clash-french-islanders-fearing-coronavirus-among-tourists-193238500.html

[Vgroom]

Yes I read this.  🙄

[travelberlin]

4 hours ago, mwf7501 said:

We are booked on the May 4 departure on Pursuit, from Rome to Lisbon.

 

Is there any way to estimate whether that cruise will actually happen, or are there just too many variables, and we must just watch the news each day?

 

Also, we have put in a bid on a suite upgrade, and I am thinking I should just cancel that so as to cut my potential loss if the trip ends up a no-go, either by my choice, or by Azamara, or by the airlines, or by the various governments involved.   In a worst case (ie, no Azamara refund) we have trip insurance with Cancel-for-any-reason at 75% coverage.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.

 

Mark

The situation is very fluid at the moment. There is no way to estimate what will happen in the Mediterranean in May. At the moment the Coronavirus cases are increasing in Europe.

[sunlover33]

The information on Azamara website is very vague. 
 

2. There will be mandatory specialized health screenings performed on:

• Any guest who has traveled from, to or through select countries impacted by coronavirus (COVID-19), within 15 days of boarding.
• Guests who are uncertain about contact with individuals who have traveled from, to or through select countries impacted by coronavirus (COVID-19) within 15 days of boarding.

As most countries are impacted to a greater or lesser degree, are all guests now going to have to undertake a specialised health screening? There seems to be no clarification of which countries qualify as ‘Select countries’. 

[Vgroom]

Read this today.  It might be interesting to follow the outcome of this meeting.  AZ is after all an American company.