Seabourn and the current issues surrounding the Corona Virus

[jenidallas]

2 hours ago, oceanviewer21 said:

Agree with you 100%. Our main worry too. Why is this not mentioned more?

I have a few thoughts:

1) Its easier for the media to focus on a cruise ship (like Grand Princess) where they can park their cameras and do their multiple daily standups from relative safety knowing that the victims are both known (ship passengers) and yet relatively anonymous (no chance of inadvertently violating someone's health privacy) and the ship makes a beautiful background.  

2) It feels both scary and yet relatively safe to report on something isolated that the average viewer can fear and yet know with relatively certainty that they are individually safe from ("I didn't go on that cruise ship and no one I know did either") versus the panic factor of reporting on a cluster in our country (like the one in Westchester County) or the public workers with wide reach (like the Starbucks worker in downtown Seattle or the Uber/Lyft driver in the NY metro area).

3) Cruise lines are one of those things that most of the public already has an opinion about them.  From a gathering I was at this morning, sentiments ranged from "you'd never get me on one of those germ factories" to "we love cruising... this won't stop us".  They are a safe target.

4) For many, they aren't personally affected by the cruise industry... fewer people know someone who works in the industry and most people don't know people who take multiple cruises a year (unless you live in Florida or hang out with a travel-centric crowd).  Many people know at least one someone who flies regularly.  And the airline industry affects local economies deeply.  Its easier to hit a target doesn't hit as close to home.

5) There is already a shortage of hand sanitizer and other tools for germaphobes.  Its easy for a scared populace to avoid cruise ships.  Its more difficult to avoid public places (including airports).

 

I could easily think of more reasons but there are just a few that immediately come to mind.

[SLSD]

Here's an article from the Miami Herald which is not good news for the cruise industry: 

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article240958896.html

 

From the article:  "

While not an official travel advisory against cruising — although Reuters reported the administration is considering one — Pence’s caution against cruising hit the industry where it hurts most. Retirees are the most popular age group for cruising. In 2018, 14% of cruisers were 70 years or older, and 19% were 60-69, the largest age group, according to the industry lobbying group Cruise Lines International Association. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is warning older adults to stay at home as much as possible and avoid crowds."

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article240958896.html#storylink=cpy

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by SLSD

[fdnycruiser]

There was a time when the news media reported the news. Now, the media “makes” the news by feeding into the fears of people. Ever listen to the news before a snowstorm or hurricane? They’ve created a worldwide hysteria, and politicians worldwide react to it, to show they’re doing something. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story ,


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[JPH814]

3 minutes ago, fdnycruiser said:

There was a time when the news media reported the news. Now, the media “makes” the news by feeding into the fears of people. Ever listen to the news before a snowstorm or hurricane? They’ve created a worldwide hysteria, and politicians worldwide react to it, to show they’re doing something. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story ,


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I agree. It is a shame. There are so many "sky is falling" stories, you do not know when a real emergency might exist. The flu affects -and kills- many many more people and the media gives  it no notice.  Why?  because it is not a sexy story. I hope this is just another in a long line of over hyped stories.  

[jozi]

3 minutes ago, JPH814 said:

I agree. It is a shame. There are so many "sky is falling" stories, you do not know when a real emergency might exist. The flu affects -and kills- many many more people and the media gives  it no notice.  Why?  because it is not a sexy story. I hope this is just another in a long line of over hyped stories.  

Actually there is a lot of notice about the seasonal flu and a significant public health effort to get people to vaccinate and observe precautions. It's not a new thing but it's scary to note that even with herd immunity people die of it. There is also immunity developed for the flu.

This is a new virus with no vaccine option available yet, no inherent immunity and, in some settings, appears to be highly contagious and persistent.  And fatal to some. So lots of information about  prevention and precautions, especially for those who interact with vulnerable populations; updates on access to testing, which is a big problem in the US and may mean a gross underestimate of cases; updates on concerted development of a safe and effective vaccine, therapeutics, risks and vectors of transmission all seem pretty useful information.

 

Some people have lost loved ones so their sky has already fallen. 

[SLSD]

13 minutes ago, JPH814 said:

I hope this is just another in a long line of over hyped stories.  

As do I.  

[teamflames]

7 minutes ago, jozi said:

Actually there is a lot of notice about the seasonal flu and a significant public health effort to get people to vaccinate and observe precautions. It's not a new thing but it's scary to note that even with herd immunity people die of it. There is also immunity developed for the flu.

This is a new virus with no vaccine option available yet, no inherent immunity and, in some settings, appears to be highly contagious and persistent.  And fatal to some. So lots of information about  prevention and precautions, especially for those who interact with vulnerable populations; updates on access to testing, which is a big problem in the US and may mean a gross underestimate of cases; updates on concerted development of a safe and effective vaccine, therapeutics, risks and vectors of transmission all seem pretty useful information.

 

Some people have lost loved ones so their sky has already fallen. 

I am constantly amazed at the people who say this is another flu or it’s not as bad as the flu. Clearly they haven’t read the WHO report, which specifically states that this virus is more contagious and a lot more deadly (it does acknowledge that death rates though are difficult to compare at this early stage). It specifically mentions this is not an influenza (human virus) but is an animal virus (as far as they can tell as they still have not found the source) and hence there is no immunity in the population. They are clearly concerned by how little they know about it. The good news is they have shown that non pharmaceutical intervention works, ie strong public health, isolations, regular testing.

Personally for myself and cruising my concern is that the US (where the vast majority of cruisers come from) does not appear to be following those protocols. Only today it was reported they only had 6,000 test kits. Yesterday 6 states did not have any testing facilities. The Grand Princess is still floating off the coast of California (hopefully there is a plan, but is hasn’t been well broadcast) and right now a Carnival ship and another Princess ship have suspended embarkations.

I agree there is a lot of media hype but there are just as many people saying nothing to see here who clearly haven’t read any of the actual research.

[Sunviking]

As of this afternoon's FDA update at 15:31 PM, public health labs in all 50 states are able to test for Covid 19.  As of last night more than 1.1 million test kits have been shipped to non-public health labs. Two manufacturers are expected to have another 1 million kits which have passed quality control shipped by Monday and an additional 4 million by next Friday.  One of the things the US government did this week was to change regulations so that facilities other than the CDC could process the tests. It sounds like a lot of work is being done to try to keep up with a new and unexpected disease.

[SLSD]

1 hour ago, Sunviking said:

As of this afternoon's FDA update at 15:31 PM, public health labs in all 50 states are able to test for Covid 19.  As of last night more than 1.1 million test kits have been shipped to non-public health labs. Two manufacturers are expected to have another 1 million kits which have passed quality control shipped by Monday and an additional 4 million by next Friday.  One of the things the US government did this week was to change regulations so that facilities other than the CDC could process the tests. It sounds like a lot of work is being done to try to keep up with a new and unexpected disease.

And all of this should have started in January, when our government received the first briefings about the virus.  The United States is way behind other developed countries.  You can read about what is happening in Italy and it sounds dire.   I do hope that this late push to provide testing capability in all 50 states will be enough.  All we can do is wait and see at this point.  For those of us with very elderly parents, it is a worry.  

Edited March 8, 2020 by SLSD

[westmount]

We finally got to leave Colombo after the haul was cleaned, so off we go on our way to Broome. 
So far, everyone, from guest to staff has been great, but to be sure watching Fox, MSNBC etc is not making things easier. 
   As a Canadian, I’ll leave any Trump comments to myself, but sitting out in the Indian Ocean wondering if our American passengers will ever be allowed home must cross their minds as well. 
  It also looks like panic has hit everywhere, except here on the ship, as everyone is doing what they normally do, with the daily schedule packed with activities now for everyone. 
 It might just be my observation, but you can see on the faces of the staff lots of worry about contracts, health, friends etc, and so we’ll see how the next week at sea goes. 
given the Canadian governments notice to avoid cruises and other ominous signs, if not on a ship currently, not sure how anyone gets on one over the next 90 days. 
 We’re all doing fine, save for worrying , but if the great unknown is the big threat, getting off the ship is probably worse than staying on. 
  Given the current political situation in America, and given the number of cruise passengers from there, while the industry will survive long term, there might have to be a short term halt as deposits pay the bills, and if deposits dry up, why sail for six months if passengers won’t. 
in any case, the next 30/60 days will tell us an awful lot about where this is going, we just want to get on land healthy and Hope panic and politics doesn’t make it worse.

yesterday, there was a speaker discussing terrorism,, not sure there’s much difference. 
  Now it’s time for the gym, Seabourn square , trivia, speaker, golf then lunch, we’ll leave the worrying to others 

 

[teamflames]

32 minutes ago, SLSD said:

And all of this should have started in January, when our government received the first briefings about the virus.  The United States is way behind other developed countries.  You can read about what is happening in Italy and it sounds dire.   I do hope that this late push to provide testing capability in all 50 states will be enough.  All we can do is wait and see at this point.  For those of us with very elderly parents, it is a worry.  

I hope people don’t interpret comments I make as political, I am not from the US and not sure who or how the relative decisions are made. It astounded me early on that hospitals and doctors could not test without CDC approval and seemed very reluctant to. The nurses union has clearly been concerned about the state of affairs and were effectively whistle blowers on how unprepared the system was. The Grand Princess proves that the virus was in California (at the least in early February). The US has had the luxury of monitoring Asia and Europe and getting prepared.

I was shocked to read today that Princess is only now going to install temperature checks and only at select embarkation ports - I just assumed this was a given after the Diamond/Japan debacle. This was confirmed by other Princess cruisers on this site who boarded other ships recently. It also looks like they moved crew between ships and have potentially infected another ship. I wonder what Seabourn is doing (looking at FB it seems that there are no temperature checks as well?) It sounds like the Pence/cruise industry meeting is trying to put the onus on the companies to do more screening pre, during and post cruising and maybe even pay for necessary hospital care.

Still sitting back and monitoring, will make a decision as late as possible for mid April cruise.

[SLSD]

25 minutes ago, teamflames said:

I hope people don’t interpret comments I make as political, I am not from the US and not sure who or how the relative decisions are made. It astounded me early on that hospitals and doctors could not test without CDC approval and seemed very reluctant to. 

I am trying to be very careful when I make comments about the U. S. Government (my government).  To see how this public health event has been handled is worrisome--and I would say the same no matter who was in our government.  I think it  is ok to talk about a government being unprepared when they had time to prepare.  I am imagining that the Covid-19 virus is all through the country now.  As I have mentioned before, one concern I have is asymptomatic carriers.  I think it is only a matter of time before most cruise ships are affected.  I do think it would make one bitter to think that you were not welcomed back into your country because you were ill.  There have to be protocols and I don't think we have them or even know what they might be.  

 

I do hope that all of you going to cruises in the next few months will be safe and well and will have a wonderful time.  For the rest of us, the uncertainties would sap the fun from our trip.  Note that I said uncertainties, not hysterical fears.  

 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by SLSD

[ab21au]

3 hours ago, fdnycruiser said:

There was a time when the news media reported the news. Now, the media “makes” the news by feeding into the fears of people. Ever listen to the news before a snowstorm or hurricane? They’ve created a worldwide hysteria, and politicians worldwide react to it, to show they’re doing something. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story ,


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It’s posts like this when I wish there was a like button. 

[cuddles115]

Detecting and containing the virus and its mutations is of paramount importance. Whether it be on land or sea. Many have taken the wrong approach  feeling that they are vulnerable and/or scared. Loss of reason transformed into panic and lack of intelligence has caused a run on masks, disinfectants and even toilet paper. The news media has been instrumental in this "craziness" by inflaming the public.  Travel restrictions  have been far reaching in the name of caution when there are a few pockets of worry. The travel restrictions, for better or worse, have been so far reaching that events have been cancelled and/or missed.  I read that the olympics in Tokyo this summer may be cancelled!!!!!INSANE!!! Caution is laudatory and I compliment any and all who have provided us with positive information. But, to carry it to an extreme is not. Patience and frequent hand washing seem to be the best cure in this era of worry, speculation and conjecture. Westmount, in his/her note had the right idea.  Carry on!!!!!

[ab21au]

1 hour ago, SLSD said:

For those of us with very elderly parents, it is a worry.

For us, our grand children see us as those very people (and unfortunately we probably are).

 

My wish is that everyone stays safe and virus free but that is looking more and more like a dream, unfortunately. 

[SLSD]

36 minutes ago, ab21au said:

For us, our grand children see us as those very people (and unfortunately we probably are).

 

My wish is that everyone stays safe and virus free but that is looking more and more like a dream, unfortunately. 

Actually, my husband and I (ages 67 and 68 )are considered elderly by some as well.  We don't have time to be elderly as we are responsible for our mothers, who are TRULY elderly.  You know how you hear that being a parent of young children is a  young person's game?  I can say the same about caring for the elderly!  

 

Cuddles115, Sadly, the virus has not been contained.  That attempt has failed.  

Edited March 8, 2020 by SLSD

[westmount]

If a large hotel in Vegas had two people with the virus stay for three days a month ago, could they stop everyone from leaving , no. A cruiseship is a double edged sword, as crew stay on and passengers are at sea after the prior guest leave. We’re in a strange situation, as most everyone , save for a few passengers who got on in the Seychelles have been on for a minimum of three weeks. I don’t see how a cruise line can safely screen a seven day cruise. 
I gather insurance policies will take over the issue, as they won’t cover, thus either the cruise line will pay cost or not sail until health issue settles down with vaccine , something that’s 18 months away.

  cruise ships are not the problem, but given the fact that we can’t put everyone in quarantine for two weeks before getting on, not sure their is a solution save for not letting anyone with respiratory conditions onto  a ship, that might be a good start. 
  Getting a flu is one thing, dying is another. 
The cruise industry needs to act quickly or I’m afraid there won’t be much left , and it has nothing to do with cancelations and refunds , but showing the public it’s safe to cruise and passengers won’t get in-prisoned while on vacation.
  
   

[teamflames]

4 minutes ago, westmount said:

If a large hotel in Vegas had two people with the virus stay for three days a month ago, could they stop everyone from leaving , no. A cruiseship is a double edged sword, as crew stay on and passengers are at sea after the prior guest leave. We’re in a strange situation, as most everyone , save for a few passengers who got on in the Seychelles have been on for a minimum of three weeks. I don’t see how a cruise line can safely screen a seven day cruise. 
I gather insurance policies will take over the issue, as they won’t cover, thus either the cruise line will pay cost or not sail until health issue settles down with vaccine , something that’s 18 months away.

  cruise ships are not the problem, but given the fact that we can’t put everyone in quarantine for two weeks before getting on, not sure their is a solution save for not letting anyone with respiratory conditions onto  a ship, that might be a good start. 
  Getting a flu is one thing, dying is another. 
The cruise industry needs to act quickly or I’m afraid there won’t be much left , and it has nothing to do with cancelations and refunds , but showing the public it’s safe to cruise and passengers won’t get in-prisoned while on vacation.
  
   

You might already be right, Grand Princess in quarantine, Royal Princess sailing cancelled today, passengers reporting not being allowed to disembark the Ruby Princess, Carnival Panorama embarkation delayed 

[cuddles115]

16 minutes ago, SLSD said:

 

18 minutes ago, SLSD said:

Actually, my husband and I (ages 67 and 68 )are considered elderly by some as well.  We don't have time to be elderly as we are responsible for our mothers, who are TRULY elderly.  You know how you hear that being a parent of young children is a  young person's game?  I can say the same about caring for the elderly!  

 

Cuddles115, Sadly, the virus has not been contained.  That attempt has failed.  

 

From what we hear, China has slowly gotten back to "normal." There are traffic jams in the larger cities and factories are back into production. If that be true, we can expect resolution world wide in the next few weeks...NOT months. To put it in perspective, the H3N2 strain in 2018 was considered worse than the Swine Flu of 2009.  The 2018 flu killed 1 million people world wide. The Spanish flu of 1918 affected 500 million people and killed between 20-50 million people world wide. Taking these figures into consideration, we have to think that this strain is minor league. I'm not implying that death or infection is minor.  I'm only trying to put it into perspective.  We must and should get on with our lives and if we only learnt one thing from this episode.....hand washing and protecting others when we cough or sneeze.is important. One more thing....I wonder if the companies that insure cruise ships aren't the final say in what ships continue and which won't.

[ab21au]

1 hour ago, westmount said:

cruise ships are not the problem

I agree .... it’s people that are the problem.
 

Australia very early closed its borders to those with a Chinese passport and coming from Mainland China in the past 14 days. This was circumvented by going via another country. 
 

One Uni of QLD (UQ) student then presented to 2 Brisbane hospitals (Mater Emergency and RBH) and was diagnosed with COVID-19. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/05/coronavirus-australia-let-chinese-students-circumvent-travel-ban.html

 

[westmount]

I gather people who circumvented travel restrictions for selfish reasons are the reason this has spread to so many countries, as the bad side of human nature was never going to contain this virus. 
  Bad hygiene and worse politics will exasperate the issues, but once the fear of ones neighbour is replaced by proper testing, medical treatment, and people taking precautions to protect themselves, life will return to normal, albeit a new normal. 
  China is a special place that sealed off 50 million people for two months, not sure that would work in Manhattan, but let’s see how the US government handles things. Trump would never seal off NY nor California for any reason other than strictly medical, who’s taking the bet? 
btw, we had a wonderful shopping with the chef downstairs in the restaurant today, it’s 30 degrees and sunny for the 20thday out of 21( sorry Seychelles) and the major decision of the day is shrimp and filet on the patio or sea bass and pasta in the colonnade tonight.
  hopefully governments around the world will figure out we’re all in this together, so maybe in a strange way the virus will do more good than bad in the long run, Iran, Korea, China and America all in this together, quite interesting times we live in.

 

 

[teamflames]

We might have our decision made for us on whether to continue our trips.

A preliminary investigation of our usual travel insurance providers (in Australia) suggests they will not cover any claims relative to the virus. While I understand this for trip cancellations it also seems to apply for medical coverage. While the risk of contracting it may be minimal, as an asthmatic I cannot afford to travel without medical coverage.

[ab21au]

42 minutes ago, teamflames said:

We might have our decision made for us on whether to continue our trips.

A preliminary investigation of our usual travel insurance providers (in Australia) suggests they will not cover any claims relative to the virus. While I understand this for trip cancellations it also seems to apply for medical coverage. While the risk of contracting it may be minimal, as an asthmatic I cannot afford to travel without medical coverage.

I have TI in AUS with Insureandgo and they state on their website that they do not cover COVID-19 unless the policy was purchased prior to Feb 20 (me) and Smart Traveller classified as Level 4 (not me as Hong Kong was not level 4, only mainland China).

 

When the Feb 29 cruise was cancelled I called them and the TI for that cruise was refunded and I then re-purchased TI for the future cruise in July. I thought they were pretty good to refund.  The new TI would not be covered for COVID-19 but I would be covered for the medical certificates which I took for DW and I. 

[Paulchili]

7 hours ago, Sunviking said:

As of this afternoon's FDA update at 15:31 PM, public health labs in all 50 states are able to test for Covid 19.  As of last night more than 1.1 million test kits have been shipped to non-public health labs. Two manufacturers are expected to have another 1 million kits which have passed quality control shipped by Monday and an additional 4 million by next Friday.  One of the things the US government did this week was to change regulations so that facilities other than the CDC could process the tests. It sounds like a lot of work is being done to try to keep up with a new and unexpected disease.

It's about time and only about 2 months too late. Some people who should have known better  must have been hoping for a miracle that this would affect the entire world but not the USA.

[teamflames]

2 minutes ago, ab21au said:

I have TI in AUS with Insureandgo and they state on their website that they do not cover COVID-19 unless the policy was purchased prior to Feb 20 (me) and Smart Traveller classified as Level 4 (not me as Hong Kong was not level 4, only mainland China).

 

When the Feb 29 cruise was cancelled I called them and the TI for that cruise was refunded and I then re-purchased TI for the future cruise in July. I thought they were pretty good to refund.  The new TI would not be covered for COVID-19 but I would be covered for the medical certificates which I took for DW and I. 

I have to do more research. We were in the process of buying TI in late January but once the virus was defined as a known disease we held off.

Some of the policies we read today are very clear that even medical coverage will be denied for policies after March 4. 
it might be all mute anyway with India banning cruise ships (reportedly Doha), the restrictions in SL, Dubai asked its citizens not to travel so who knows where that leads.

Still plenty of time 🤞 but the situation changes daily (just today- Grand Princess is quarantined; Royal Princess sailing is cancelled; Celebrity cancels Dubai sailing; Carnival ship delayed disembarking one day; issues disembarking in Sydney for Ruby Princess; Mike Spence and industry discuss new procedures).