Ruby Princess police investigation

[The_Big_M]

10 hours ago, Pushka said:

Another two deaths overnight from Ruby Princess. That's 18 or 19? The media doesn't even need to exaggerate to paint this sad story. 

 

Keep in  mind there will never be a true count. These figures are only coming from Australian counting but many overseas jurisdictions are not reporting back. As of a day ago, only one case had been added to the tally from the US, though I'm sure there would be more e.g Brandee was not listed.

[The_Big_M]

9 hours ago, Pushka said:

We can't sue our Government Agencies but we can get the Ombudsman to investigate. Or ICAC if there are thoughts of corruption. 

Unfortunately that's not true. ICAC was introduced for NSW following extensive corruption, and is a NSW body. 

 

An equivalent has been recommended for the federal government but has been resisted for a long time, and does not exist. That is not an option.

[The_Big_M]

2 hours ago, Pushka said:

I didn’t realise the NW Tasmania hospital lockdown now in progress was from a Covid infection from Ruby until today. 

 

The two NSW deaths today were also from that cruise.

[The_Big_M]

2 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

OMG!!! The Police statement that a crew-member was responsible will stick in people's minds. They won't have heard, or will forget the "Has no evidence" bit.

 

I don't think the Police could or would put a 'gag order' on the company. However, I don't think Princess will bother to refute every story that comes out.

 

It's standard PR for any company/agency to comment as little as possible to reduce the media exposure. Giving a response brings another article, then someone may challenge that and discuss it further which just leaves it in the public longer. 

 

By not commenting it improves the chance it just dies at that point. It's normally only if it's carrying on that a response won't prolong it (or a response is absolutely necessary) that they'll comment.

[The_Big_M]

2 hours ago, DiamondFour said:

They have got a gag order on them. This has been confirmed by media who were interviewing the crew and why the P&O Australia CEO has not made any further videos to his response to the police ordering Pacific Explorer to leave Sydney. It was not long after that video message that they were slapped with a gag order.

 

It's standard that staff aren't allowed to comment about their company (if they want to keep their job). That's not a gag order from anyone external though.

[DiamondFour]

9 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Something to think about ...

 

If all passengers had been kept onboard until the results of those initial tests had come through confirming that the virus was on the ship

AND

If then all passengers and crew had been tested for the virus so that those infected by it were hospitalized immediately until they were free of the virus

THEN

Would as many people have died?

Its unlikely many would have died. In Japan the authorities immediately removed anyone diagnosed from the ship straight to a hospital and there they remained until they were free of the virus.

[DiamondFour]

7 hours ago, The_Big_M said:

 

It's standard that staff aren't allowed to comment about their company (if they want to keep their job). That's not a gag order from anyone external though.

It is definitely a gag order. The executives high up have stated they would like to speak and said it was a gag order by the police. This was also reported on by the media that the police commissioner has given the company a gag order using extraordinary new powers during the health crisis.

[Pushka]

8 hours ago, The_Big_M said:

Unfortunately that's not true. ICAC was introduced for NSW following extensive corruption, and is a NSW body. 

 

An equivalent has been recommended for the federal government but has been resisted for a long time, and does not exist. That is not an option.

Yes, I mentioned ICAC  So I'm not sure what isn't true about what I said 😉
 

And also the deaths from NSW were mentioned upthread. What was mentioned in the media today were the three deaths from Ruby who died in the Tasmanian Hospital and that spread has now caused two major hospitals to close. I did hear there was also going to be an independent enquiry into Ruby Princess in addition to the criminal investigation. What a dreadful legacy. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Pushka

[Aus Traveller]

11 hours ago, lyndarra said:

There have been theories put forward re passengers or crew bringing the virus onboard but there is another possible carrier/s. The entertainers that come on board one port, do their gig, and leave at the next port. And they also do gigs on other ships. I'm not suggesting it was an entertainer but it's possibility I haven't heard anyone put forward or speculate on.

I think the idea that an entertainer brought the virus on is unlikely for two reasons:

1. From what I have seen, entertainers don't mix a lot with the passengers.

2. The first port was Dunedin on 12th March. I don't know that there would have been enough time for the virus to spread as widely as it did on the ship.

[Aus Traveller]

11 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

Staff come and go all the time, but agree, It was likely an international guest that brought it on board.

👍  But, finding 'patient zero' shouldn't be the main aim. Any inquiry should be delving into why the passengers were let loose from the ship before the test results were back.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[Aus Traveller]

15 hours ago, christodan said:

 

But we were all aware of what happened with the Diamond Princess, so why wouldn't a passenger have a fear that they might be stuck on the ship for two weeks? I am sure if it was me, it would have gone through my head that it was a possibility.

If they really thought they could be stuck on the ship for two weeks, then maybe they shouldn't have gone on the cruise.

 

We were on the Sea Princess from 23rd Feb to 8th March and did not consider we could be quarantined on the ship. Before we docked, we were warned that there could be delays in disembarkation because there could be health checks. There weren't.

[nnps]

12 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

👍  But, finding 'patient zero' shouldn't be the main aim. Any inquiry should be delving into why the passengers were let loose from the ship before the test results were back.

Agreed wholeheartedly. In fact I don't see any point in identifying the original source unless it is believed, and can be proven, that it was deliberately and knowingly taken on board.

[Cruisegroover]

At this mornings presser by NSW authorities it was said the inquiry will last another 5 months. 220 people have called into Crimestoppers and if they have to they will interview all passengers. It was stated that all aspects will be examined and findings will be released dependent on what other inquiries may be running at the time ie Coroner as they don't want to interfere with those inquiries. The word robust was used many times. No mention of the probable source.

[MicCanberra]

24 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

👍  But, finding 'patient zero' shouldn't be the main aim. Any inquiry should be delving into why the passengers were let loose from the ship before the test results were back.

agreed

[Aus Traveller]

11 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

If all passengers had been kept onboard until the results of those initial tests had come through confirming that the virus was on the ship

AND

If then all passengers and crew had been tested for the virus so that those infected by it were hospitalized immediately until they were free of the virus

THEN

Would as many people have died?

The virus would not have spread to secondary infections if disembarkation had been delayed, then everyone moved to into a quarantine facility. However, it has been reported that there have been no deaths from those who acquired COVID as a secondary infection. It could be that these people were generally younger family members of passengers. The last three deaths associated with the Ruby were of men aged 91, 80 and 76. (BTW, it is still very sad, regardless of their ages.)

 

I feel it is doubtful that having the passengers in quarantine would have affected the death toll because, from what I have read these people were in hospital for at least days before they died. Maybe nothing more could be done for them. ☹️ In the UK, 55 year old Boris Johnson was told his chances were 50/50.

[Aus Traveller]

20 minutes ago, Cruisegroover said:

At this mornings presser by NSW authorities it was said the inquiry will last another 5 months. 220 people have called into Crimestoppers and if they have to they will interview all passengers. It was stated that all aspects will be examined and findings will be released dependent on what other inquiries may be running at the time ie Coroner as they don't want to interfere with those inquiries. The word robust was used many times. No mention of the probable source.

Imagine interviewing all the passengers!! Several of them have said they weren't warned about the virus, yet we know from others, that they were given printed information about the virus, then printed instructions to self-isolate when they got home. If the police are going to interview some passengers, I hope they interview all, not just those with a grudge against the company.

[christodan]

49 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

If they really thought they could be stuck on the ship for two weeks, then maybe they shouldn't have gone on the cruise.

 

We were on the Sea Princess from 23rd Feb to 8th March and did not consider we could be quarantined on the ship. Before we docked, we were warned that there could be delays in disembarkation because there could be health checks. There weren't.

 Of course you wouldn't have considered that you would have been quarantined on the ship on that cruise. Everything in Australian was pretty normal then. But as I wrote in my last post, everything changed drastically during that  Ruby cruise. When everyone embarked on March 8 everything was still normal. Then it emerged that Tom Hanks and his wife had corona virus. All of a sudden it was all in the media and it was as though it really hit home. Don't forget they traced it to the Opera House, that is, right next to the cruise terminal. I would imagine people on the ship who were talking to people back at home would have starting thinking that they could be in quarantine, especially if they also had visited the Opera House before. So Sydney was a very different place from when they embarked to when they disembarked. Unlike the time frame of 23 Feb to 8th March.

 

Don't forget too -their itinerary changed which also would have given them thoughts that there may be coronavirus on the ship. I presume your cruise was normal that wasn't cut short or anything, therefore there was no indication that anything was awry about your cruise.

Edited April 14, 2020 by christodan

[Aus Traveller]

12 minutes ago, christodan said:

 Of course you wouldn't have considered that you would have been quarantined on the ship on that cruise. Everything in Australian was pretty normal then. But as I wrote in my last post, everything changed drastically during that  Ruby cruise. When everyone embarked on March 8 everything was still normal. Then it emerged that Tom Hanks and his wife had corona virus. All of a sudden it was all in the media and it was as though it really hit home. Don't forget they traced it to the Opera House, that is, right next to the cruise terminal. I would imagine people on the ship who were talking to people back at home would have starting thinking that they could be in quarantine, especially if they also had visited the Opera House before. So Sydney was a very different place from when they embarked to when they disembarked. Unlike the time frame of 23 Feb to 8th March.

You are correct. The situation changed drastically between 8th March and when the Ruby returned to Sydney on the 19th.

[DiamondFour]

18 minutes ago, christodan said:

 Of course you wouldn't have considered that you would have been quarantined on the ship on that cruise. Everything in Australian was pretty normal then. But as I wrote in my last post, everything changed drastically during that  Ruby cruise. When everyone embarked on March 8 everything was still normal. Then it emerged that Tom Hanks and his wife had corona virus. All of a sudden it was all in the media and it was as though it really hit home. Don't forget they traced it to the Opera House, that is, right next to the cruise terminal. I would imagine people on the ship who were talking to people back at home would have starting thinking that they could be in quarantine, especially if they also had visited the Opera House before. So Sydney was a very different place from when they embarked to when they disembarked. Unlike the time frame of 23 Feb to 8th March.

 

Don't forget too -their itinerary changed which also would have given them thoughts that there may be coronavirus on the ship. I presume your cruise was normal that wasn't cut short or anything, therefore there was no indication that anything was awry about your cruise.

That is correct that everything was normal in Australia at that time. The Diamond Princess was quarantined on February 4th giving me two weeks. By 18th February I could leave the ship. To avoid quarantine in Australia I deliberately declined the Australian Government chartered flight home and mandatory quarantine in Darwin. I stayed in Japan for 3 weeks and returned on the 7th March. I was in Sydney that day and caught up with friends and actually and proudly wore my Diamond Princess T-shirt all around Sydney and caught up with friends at the Opera House Bar for some corona beers. I have blurred my head out of the photo for privacy reasons but I also walked around getting photos of Spectrum of the Seas wearing my Diamond Princes T-shirt.

 

I can tell you what Sydney was like that day. It was bustling and crowded with people everywhere. It was hard to get a seat and dinner at the opera house due to all the crowds. It is as if nothing was going on at all. That is what the attitude was like in Australia on the 7th March when I was at circular quay the day before Ruby Princess departed on its final voyage. 

[The_Big_M]

2 hours ago, Pushka said:

Yes, I mentioned ICAC  So I'm not sure what isn't true about what I said 😉
 

And also the deaths from NSW were mentioned upthread. What was mentioned in the media today were the three deaths from Ruby who died in the Tasmanian Hospital and that spread has now caused two major hospitals to close. I did hear there was also going to be an independent enquiry into Ruby Princess in addition to the criminal investigation. What a dreadful legacy. 

 

The question it referred to included a Federal Government agency (Border Force). ICAC is only operating in NSW so cannot cover this.

[Pushka]

Just now, The_Big_M said:

 

The question it referred to included a Federal Government agency (Border Force). ICAC is only operating in NSW so cannot cover this.

Fair 'enuf!  

[The_Big_M]

3 hours ago, DiamondFour said:

It is definitely a gag order. The executives high up have stated they would like to speak and said it was a gag order by the police. This was also reported on by the media that the police commissioner has given the company a gag order using extraordinary new powers during the health crisis.

I find that extremely unlikely. If they were given a "gag order" it would defeat the purpose for "high up executives" to state that, and also be a CLM as already stated.

 

As you say it's in the media (which it would need to be to be true), please provide a link.

[DiamondFour]

You can tell how sloppy and unprofessional this police investigation is with the latest update by the Premier.

 

It is going to take 5 months to complete the investigation as the police have to interview every single passenger and crew member.

 

What a great way to delay this long enough so that people forget! An awesome delaying tactic. 

 

What on earth are some people who had a great cruise and did not come across anything suspicious or get sick going to be able to contribute?

 

If it were me I would be telling them no to any interviews as I am supporting the cruise line.

[Pushka]

5 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

You can tell how sloppy and unprofessional this police investigation is with the latest update by the Premier.

 

It is going to take 5 months to complete the investigation as the police have to interview every single passenger and crew member.

 

What a great way to delay this long enough so that people forget! An awesome delaying tactic. 

 

What on earth are some people who had a great cruise and did not come across anything suspicious or get sick going to be able to contribute?

 

If it were me I would be telling them no to any interviews as I am supporting the cruise line.

 

If they subpeona you there is no choice.

 

Turns out that my sister whom I socially distanced with today has friends who were actually on this cruise. And they arent all that complimentary about procedures. He has been sick and tested positive but recovering at home. She is fine.  I wont say anything more but they will be cooperating with any questions and share their concerns.

[The_Big_M]

Evidently, not a gag order.