Great Cruising Memories

[rkacruiser]

I am overwhelmed with these most recent posts related to Cunard and Caronia.  I really don't know what to say except I am thankful for what I am reading and learning.  

[rkacruiser]

21 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

I like Caronia...which would be the third time that Cunard used the name.  Berengaria was always another favorite!  

 

Maybe I am mistaken, but I think there is another Cunarder being built whose name has not yet been published.  Will she be another "Queen"?  Or, in what will be a new day of cruising, will Cunard choose to go in a different direction of naming their ships?  If, indeed, more Cunard White Star Line ships are ever going to be built?  

[CGTNORMANDIE]

13 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

I am overwhelmed with these most recent posts related to Cunard and Caronia.  I really don't know what to say except I am thankful for what I am reading and learning.  

Steve Lowiepete’s web site is the bast thing I have seen in YEARS!!  What great nuggets of history!

[CGTNORMANDIE]

9 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Maybe I am mistaken, but I think there is another Cunarder being built whose name has not yet been published.  Will she be another "Queen"?  Or, in what will be a new day of cruising, will Cunard choose to go in a different direction of naming their ships?  If, indeed, more Cunard White Star Line ships are ever going to be built?  

VICTOTIA has always been a favored name for a Cunarder.  Cunard will be sailing again by June...my prediction...let’s hope.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Steve, Lowiepete, 

 

I am absolutely mesmerized and I’m only up to 1950!  I love love love looking at the menus.  Are all those menus in your own collection?  Your descriptions of belowdecks is great.  I love the details!  For someone like me this is like finding buried treasure...LOL.  

[Heidi13]

10 hours ago, Lowiepete said:

Yes, we called the passengers "bloods" below decks, but that didn't stop anyone from wanting to bull their toecaps better than the next guy! I mention this because our shoes needed to contend with "Teepol" mixed with sea water toward the end of every service...

 

 

While most on this thread are pax, many are very knowledgeable about life at sea aboard the good old steam ships. However, I'm not sure how many will be aware of the term "Teepol".

 

This was the all-purpose cleaner we used when we had to soogee the decks, also known as wash down.

 

Thanks for your great posts, which are a little before my time, as I didn't sign-on until 1975, sailing on Oriana, Canberra & Uganda. Was scheduled to take Arcadia to the breakers, but was re-assigned to Island Princess.

[Lowiepete]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

 However, I'm not sure how many will be aware of the term "Teepol".

For an explanation of this, I defer to Google. 😉 Back in the days before "elf & safety" when at full strength that stuff could almost strip paint. Even when diluted with gallons and gallons of sea-water, as the galley deck was washed down, it could kill a pair of black leather shoes in short order. Any shine you got bulled-up on them would turn white no sooner than the moment they warmed-up with wearing. Even using the Dubbin leather feed paste couldn't protect them.

 

Luckily, there were ports along the way where local cobblers would measure you up in the morning and return with bespoke shoes that same evening, for not too many dollars. I kept one pair aside and brought them ashore and after a few re-shods, often costing more than the original price, they lasted me nearly 30 years. Wherever I took them for repair, there was always a compliment about their build quality. 

 

Regards,

Steve

[Lowiepete]

2 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Are all those menus in your own collection?  Your descriptions of below decks is great.  I love the details!  For someone like me this is like finding buried treasure...LOL.  

 

The "About the Timeline and its Author" page will explain how and why I started the Timeline. 

[Lowiepete]

I'll try again...

 

The "About the Timeline and its Author page should answer the first question. 

 

I've been building the Timeline since 2004 so I'm surprised that you haven't found the site earlier. In recent years I've been cut off from my main sources of material, mainly because of a "global mailing program" that scares sellers, deters buyers and adds taxes and fees making purchases from the USA no longer viable.

 

There are no import duties on "printed matter" into the UK and sadly very few sellers seem to appreciate this. Also, the sheer amount of packaging material sellers now use because items need to traverse the Atlantic to reach me is scary and wasteful. I'm certain someone has told them that parcels need to survive nuclear explosions as well as earthquakes and volcanic eruptions!

 

I still have several items yet to catalogue and the ongoing build is in fits and starts. Of the daily activity pages there are now fewer than a dozen remaining with the standard blurb, so quite where it goes when they are complete is undecided.

 

I'm so pleased that you were able to find a permanent home for your collection. For me, that is a huge problem I'm finding very difficult to resolve. Placing the collection is extremely easy; after all who wouldn't want nearly 40 almost full foolscap boxes of dedicated ephemera in their collection? Heaven knows what it's worth; I've drip-fed its accumulation so not really noticed its cost. 

 

However, I haven't spent all this time and effort in making sight of these artefacts safely available to all-comers only for them all to instantly disappear. To my mind, the _real_ value is in the social history attached to these artefacts through the Web site which is _not_ all my own work. The physics of it is, but not vast amounts of information fed back to me and incorporated into it.

 

To help ease a transition to a new holder I have been very careful in designing the site to the highest accessibility standards, not because I'm disabled myself, but because for the time being it's aimed at a demographic of a "certain age". The biggest stumbling block has been what I call the "not invented here" syndrome. 😞  

 

I have made provision in my Will to ensure that no boxes end up on a waste-tip or get otherwise destroyed, but matching them to a proper "suitor" sadly remains unattained.

 

Regards,
Steve

Edited December 24, 2020 by Lowiepete

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Thank you Steve,

Sorry I had not gotten to the timeline page...to busy soaking up the information and details.

 

I can’t believe there is not a suitable museum in GB for ocean liner memorabilia...especially a complete collection that is so well documented.  Have you tried getting some direction from some of the bigger libraries?  There has to be something around Southampton or Liverpool??  How about the Seacity Museum in Southampton??
 

Best of luck.

Edited December 24, 2020 by CGTNORMANDIE

[Lowiepete]

2 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

I can’t believe there is not a suitable museum in GB for ocean liner memorabilia...especially a complete collection that is so well documented.

Oh, there are plenty of museums who will take the collection! Only, from that point it will disappear from public view and just become a dusty pile of boxes. It's the continuity of the Timeline that is so difficult to place into a publicly accessible place, more or less in perpetuity. 😞

 

I live in what was a major fishing town, herring-capital of the UK and we have a maritime museum. Tried there, in Glasgow where John Brown shipyard was and Liverpool / Southampton museums.

 

Artefacts, yes please - social history commitment, no thanks...

 

With Season's Greetings,

Steve

Edited December 24, 2020 by Lowiepete

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Hi Steve,

 

Keep trying...you have a fantastic historical collection.  Most maritime museums keep their collections accessible.  I am sure you will find the right place.  Then you can negotiate the rest.  I see no problem with a collaboration on the Time Line with one of the better maritime libraries.

 

Wishing everyone here a peaceful if not Happy Christmas and a hopeful New Year.  

[rkacruiser]

14 hours ago, Lowiepete said:

I have made provision in my Will to ensure that no boxes end up on a waste-tip or get otherwise destroyed, but matching them to a proper "suitor" sadly remains unattained.

 

I have included a letter of instructions to my Executor as to what I want done and what I don't want done to my collection of memorabilia.  Your post makes me think I ought to make this letter a formal part of my Will and not just a "letter" attached.  Your opinion would be appreciated.

 

 

1 hour ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Wishing everyone here a peaceful if not Happy Christmas and a hopeful New Year.  

 

 

And, the same as well to you, Sir!  As well as to all who follow this thread!

[Lowiepete]

9 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

Your post makes me think I ought to make this letter a formal part of my Will and not just a "letter" attached.  Your opinion would be appreciated.

 

I believe that it depends upon your local law. Here in the UK they have complicated matters somewhat in that you now need to specify back-stops. In other words, if the Executors cannot fulfil the original instruction, you need to answer the "what then?" question. If you possess a collection of some value, I'd be inclined to uplift instructions into a formal document.

 

My bequests are written into the will. My "Memorandum of Wishes" is on how the Executor notifies legatees of any "detail" aspiration of mine as guidelines. It will be for them to follow, or not if they're unable to according to circumstances at the time. Writing that part into the Will can make it complicated and could give the Executors powers that could become needlessly expensive to the Estate. 

 

Rather than take my words, I think it's important enough that you discuss this with your will-writers. 

 

As for placing the Timeline, I have omitted to say that refusals have also been toward my including a substantial financial legacy for future maintenance and updating of the Web site. It seems that Web designers are a rare breed and highly protective of their status quo. As I've said: "Not invented here!" rules...

 

It's good to hear from a 3rd party that the Timeline warrants consideration by a library. Thanks for that warm compliment. It's an avenue worth exploring, where perhaps I could continue adding and editing until I've either exhausted myself or my uncatalogued material. This would ensure the continuity I'm seeking but, I wonder, does such a library exist? 

 

With Season's Greetings,

Steve

[rkacruiser]

14 hours ago, Lowiepete said:

My bequests are written into the will. My "Memorandum of Wishes" is on how the Executor notifies legatees of any "detail" aspiration of mine as guidelines. It will be for them to follow, or not if they're unable to according to circumstances at the time. Writing that part into the Will can make it complicated and could give the Executors powers that could become needlessly expensive to the Estate. 

 

Many thanks for your informative post.  

 

This is how my Will and instructions are written.  The reason for my attorney to do so was for the exact reason you stated:  the complexity of the Will increases and it can become expensive to the Estate.  

 

Maybe for my piece of mind, it is time to have, what will be a difficult conversation or more, as to just what will you attempt to do with my collection of "stuff"?  

[rkacruiser]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all who participate in this Forum!

[George C]

Merry Christmas, hopefully we all will be cruising soon, glad 2020 is almost over.

[rkacruiser]

On 12/25/2020 at 5:54 PM, George C said:

Merry Christmas, hopefully we all will be cruising soon, glad 2020 is almost over.

 

And a Happy and Healthy New Year to all!  

[CGTNORMANDIE]

I would love to hear from Lowiepete about the food that was served on the Caronia.  I assume that Cunard had some of their best chefs onboard.  The menus show a lot of prime ribs and steaks.  I wonder how these were cooked onboard?  Did the Americans eat a lot of beef?  Just thinking...

Edited December 30, 2020 by CGTNORMANDIE

[Lowiepete]

19 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

I would love to hear from Lowiepete about the food that was served on the Caronia.  I assume that Cunard had some of their best chefs onboard.  The menus show a lot of prime ribs and steaks.  I wonder how these were cooked onboard?  Did the Americans eat a lot of beef?  Just thinking...

 

The beef on board was best Scotch (not Scottish - that refers to male humans) and it was celebrated! If a blood ordered a "well done" steak at the beginning of their cruise, they appreciated it done "a point", with the "a" properly accented, by the end... The result was somewhere between blue and rare and extremely tasty, with only a smidgeon of horseradish sauce as its accompaniment!!

 

Roast rib was properly prepared on a spit with charcoal as its fuel. It was then taken into the restaurants (Plural on cruises) on a wonderful, and ancient, silver-domed trolley, from where passengers could order cuts from steak sizes to thinly sliced. Your wish was our command, in every sense! The chef put in charge of roasting would have very rare beef at only one end of the carcass. Of course, it was cut "off the bone"!

 

In those days Cunard might not have paid us the wages we deserved but they did provide us with the wherewithall to provide the service they expected us to offer the bloods. What we did was enhance that with a level of service that would utterly shame any top hotel ashore. It was our pleasure to do so. Just imagine yourself as a "top host" - what would your main desires be for your guests on a forced ongoing basis?

 

If you are welcoming the same people to the same table, at least on every night at sea, what would your strategy be to maintain the basics of making your "guests" welcome? Forgive me, but it's not an easy task! For example, would it be useful to study the latest photographs offered for sale outside the restaurant where they're depicted wearing funny hats? You could offer compliments on their efforts for attending a themed ball, or how they had won some prize. Americans are no more complex than any other nationality, believe me that just like you, they appreciate you taking an interest in the insignificant!  

 

I'm not being rude about Americans, but their "buttons" back then were about what they had and what they wanted and about where they had been and where they wanted to go. So, all we did was play to the tunes they wanted to hear. It wasn't without affection, for goodness sake, they royally kept us in the manner to which we had become very well accustomed. Bless their golden socks, but has anything changed in the meantime!  

 

You might be asking: How can I claim all this?  Just study the number or returning passengers on the two most important cruises of Caronia's itinerary. The Great World Cruise didn't simply carry one famous recluse from 5th Avenue; successive PaxLists show there were many well-seasoned travellers who properly appreciated and expected the superlative attention to detail that every last member of Caronia's crew was able and willing to offer. The same goes for the most expensive pro-rata cruise around the North Cape.

 

The beef service was just the tip of many icebergs. (pun intended!)  All that we did aboard the RMS Caronia was to set a standard. Many, many ships emerged to challenge the standards that she (we?) set. In today's World we're left wondering: How did it all go so wrong?

 

Regards,

Steve

 

 

[Lowiepete]

20 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Did the Americans eat a lot of beef?  Just thinking...

Well, yes and no. Every course would have its highlights. You have not lived until you tasted the tomato soup with full flavour that you could only imagine having come from sunniest Italy,

or the Sole Meuniere that fell apart on your plate,

or the Steak Tartare with just the right amount of seasoning, (More pepper sir, yes of course?) 

or an option of the crispiest Roast Potatoes,

or being served a hand-built flamed Bombe Caronia as a desert!

 

The "Chef" on board was a force to be reckoned with, but he didn't seek cookie-cutter repetition on as many plates as could be accommodated on a lazy sally. In some ways he'd make your life hell, but the compensations in achievement more than matched your efforts! He paid you the respect of providing the best ingredients at their optimum level of tastiness, even after several days at sea - what more could you ask?

 

All you need do is study the basic ingredients that were ordered by him and placed at your disposal. It could only inspire you to do your best! No-one was going to be out-done by anyone else. For example: the fruitman's biggest hurdle was in providing both pineapples and avocado pears at their peak of ripeness, sweetness or softness, along with optimum flavour! This wasn't done in isolation. Back then the emphasis was on how sweet the peas or petit-pois were to taste, rather than there being three too many placed on a plate. There was an unspoken expertise applied at every level. Until you experience this attitude, it's extremely difficult to quantify.

 

It was also a wrong move to make judgements based upon what level of accommodation a blood had booked for "their" cruise! If anything, the gourmets of the Sandringham Restaurant were every bit the equals of those in the Balmoral Restaurant when it came to degustation! Once a waiter in the former became aware of this knowledge, there could be some wild escapades played until the game was up. If nothing else, it either kept everyone on their toes or very well grounded!

 

If you're aboard a ship where the Chef goes ashore at the last port, just hours before the end of a voyage of just 7 days, and brings back aboard the freshest of produce for the last passengers' meal, how are you going to play your part; whether cooking or serving? This isn't oneupmanship, it's plain respect at its basic level, oh, and the results are always as delicious as they sound. We all saw to that!

 

With Season's Greetings,

Steve

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Thank you sooooooo much “Pete”.  What a fantastic experience you had!  I am no stranger to the hard work in a commercial kitchen and the need to satisfy the most stringent diners (2 years at the Ritz Carlton in Boston).  I tried working tables but chose to stay in the kitchen.  
 

Your experiences and observations should go into a book!  The superlatives experienced on the Caronia were the culmination of over a hundred plus years of Cunard expertise in all departments.  As you say...”how was all of that lost”?  Certainly the recalcitrant Board Of Directors could not change gears from the transatlantic trade to the now booming cruise business.  The jet airplane was the enemy of the transatlantic liner but the ally of the cruise liner.  We still see snippets of those golden years in some of the Luxury Lines today but nothing like the total immersion of the Caronia from years ago.  I am partial to the MSC Yacht Club and can still see some of the old style dedication to service.  

 

Thanks so much for your thrilling recount of the beef and the American pax.  Please feel free to offer any further observations.  

[Lowiepete]

1 hour ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Certainly the recalcitrant Board Of Directors could not change gears from the transatlantic trade to the now booming cruise business.

Well, it's not quite "All their fault!" There is the impact from political events, particularly from controls over currencies - British, American and Asian; this a factor beyond the scope of our exchanges. The 1960s brought about a wholesale change of attitude where the cruising experiences we offered on board Caronia became as "old-hat" as brown furniture, wind-up grandfather clocks and bespoke service.

 

It was all about bright lights, screaming girls and self-service. All of its time and damned good fun! Who didn't appreciate the Beatles, Rolling Stones or the dulcet tones of "Dark Side of the Moon"? Oh my, how I rejoice in having been part of a period of history that made the roaring twenties look like their undies were a tad too tight!

 

No single factor is to blame. The Italian liners brought their Mediterranean glamour which was just as temporarily unsustainable as the French flair. The jet air-liner was cause of much devastation before becoming any kind of sustainer and that was more by accident than design. The oil crises of the 1970s played their part in helping their cause, but by then cruising in style had to be re-invented. However, what was certain was more crew than passengers being aboard a cruise vessel would never again be sustainable!

 

Yes, there were a few ships that emulated the Caronia, some quite successfully, but not even the later much-vaunted  QE2 could match her in continuing to set new (improved) standards. That ship had a very tumultuous early career and I have it on good authority there was one test where she failed miserably! The main hub of any ship is her "working alleyway". Take it as a "toilet test" where you judge how clean, tidy and hygienic is an establishment. My informant tells me that aboard the QE2 was no comparison to the immaculate pride of the Caronia!

 

Today's cruise passenger is probably unaware of how they are being short-changed by comparison with offerings past. It's probable that greedy port authorities have a part to play in ships leaving for the open sea by 5pm each evening. It's all very well us "mourning" what used to be. All I have done with the Caronia Timeline is to try and record how cruising was once done properly and in style. It's a case of distinguishing the subtlety of that as opposed to outright ostentation, which has no place.

 

Today, until the employer / worker balance is restored where it doesn't need more than one person per household to work hard, as it used to be back in the days of brown furniture et al, there is little prospect of the glorious days I've been recalling ever being repeated. I despair at the struggles a modern day "family" is forced to endure in the 21st Century, even in the most prosperous of nations; when the years 2 thousand arrived, it was never meant to be so, so we were told!

 

With All Best Wishes!

Steve

Edited December 30, 2020 by Lowiepete

[Lowiepete]

On 12/25/2020 at 9:10 PM, rkacruiser said:

Maybe for my piece of mind, it is time to have, what will be a difficult conversation or more, as to just what will you attempt to do with my collection of "stuff"?  

The only "difficult" part of that conversation is in saying "Hello". You'll soon put people at ease because they won't have to be guessing at what might be honouring you in future, or not. I dreaded the opening moments, but real friends will soon put you at ease. Don't put it off for a rainy day, rather, make hay!

 

With Season's Greetings,

Steve  

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Steve, I hope you put all of your observations above onto your timeline.  Well said!

 

CGT