Great Cruising Memories

[shipgeeks]

These days (or should I say, up to a year ago), I guess the closest we can come to visitors and sailaway parties is the departure from Port Everglades, with enthusiastic residents of the condos facing the channel cheering, tooting horns, and waving cruiseline banners.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

15 hours ago, shipgeeks said:

These days (or should I say, up to a year ago), I guess the closest we can come to visitors and sailaway parties is the departure from Port Everglades, with enthusiastic residents of the condos facing the channel cheering, tooting horns, and waving cruiseline banners.

Bon Voyage parties were a hangover from the days when emigrants would sail from Europe.  In Ireland the relatives would have parties the night before a sailing knowing full well that they would never see their loved ones again.  In the days of sailing ships, all over England, France and Germany, people had Bon Voyage rituals for the reason that they did not know if the ship would reach its destination safely.   The average time it took to cross the Atlantic in the 1800’s was ten to fourteen weeks and sometimes longer if at all.  The custom of giving fruit baskets was to ward off the scurvy that often occurred on a long voyage.  It wasn’t until the advent of the clipper sailing ships that any reasonable schedule could be established...usually about four weeks to cross the Atlantic.  

Edited December 17, 2020 by CGTNORMANDIE

[rkacruiser]

8 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

The custom of giving fruit baskets was to ward off the scurvy that often occurred on a long voyage.

 

I never knew that, but it surely makes sense.  Good-bye parties before sailing and Bon Voyage rituals due to the uncertainty of those sailing reaching the New World:  I continue to learn.    

[CGTNORMANDIE]

45 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I never knew that, but it surely makes sense.  Good-bye parties before sailing and Bon Voyage rituals due to the uncertainty of those sailing reaching the New World:  I continue to learn.    

Thanks RK, it’s always fun to add a little history to the story.  I like to call it..”making connections”...to the past.  To this very day we still see ship cabins being loaded with fresh fruit and Bon Voyage baskets with fruit, candy and wine...as if anyone would really need any of that on a cruise...LOL.  
 

Now we have opened up a whole new chapter in Cruise Memories.  That would be “The History Of Cruising”.  The story of how modern day cruising got started and how those customs and rituals took root and have matured into modern cruising.  This, to me, is a fascinating story.  A story which I would like to tell to you.

[rkacruiser]

On 12/17/2020 at 6:20 PM, CGTNORMANDIE said:

To this very day we still see ship cabins being loaded with fresh fruit and Bon Voyage baskets with fruit, candy and wine...as if anyone would really need any of that on a cruise...LOL.  

 

On my second cruise, Rotterdam V with my Mother's and Brother's first cruise, my travel agent gifted us with a good sized basket of fresh fruit and a box of candy.  I think we "nibbled", but most went to waste.  "It's the thought that counts".  It was appreciated.  

[rkacruiser]

On 12/17/2020 at 6:20 PM, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Now we have opened up a whole new chapter in Cruise Memories.  That would be “The History Of Cruising”.  The story of how modern day cruising got started and how those customs and rituals took root and have matured into modern cruising.  This, to me, is a fascinating story.  A story which I would like to tell to you.

 

I am willing to continue to learn.  I suspect others that follow this Forum would also find it educational as well.  

 

 

[CGTNORMANDIE]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

I am willing to continue to learn.  I suspect others that follow this Forum would also find it educational as well.  

 

 

Thank you RK.  I have an entire section that I wrote for a talk on the subject.  I will give you just a few of the highlights.  
 

This story begins in Hamburg, Germany in 1857...with a man named Albert Ballin.  Albert was the youngest son Samual Joseph Ballin, a part owner of an emigrant ticket agency.  Samual died in 1874 and his ticket agency was left to Albert, 17 years old, whose elder brother did not want the business.  Albert was a diminutive lad who was studious and enjoyed playing the violin and he was extremely ambitious.  It was not long before Albert realized that the real money in emigration was in the ownership of the vessels.  Albert and a partner purchased two older cattle boats and renovated them into sea going dormitories for emigrants.  The HAPAG shipping line hired Albert in 1886 and by 1889 he had become a Director of one of the world’s biggest shipping lines.  Albert’s innovative approach resulted in his ascendency to become the head of HAPAG.  Albert was a stickler for detail and a visionary of all things ocean liner.  In the later 1800’s it was the custom for HAPAG to lay up their fleet in the winter time since Atlantic travel was extremely perilous and the Elbe river was frozen between December and March.  Albert had worked hard to improve the First Class accommodations on HAPAG ships so Albert came up with the idea of a winter cruise in First Class only.  The directors at HAPAG laughed at him when he proposed the idea in the Fall of 1890.  Albert, as usual, was undeterred.  He began advertising a six week cruise commencing in January and sailing to the warmer parts of the Mediterranean.  He was so sure of success that he, along with his wife, would accompany the cruise in order to calm the fears of the board of directors.  The cruise sold out immediately.  On January 22, 1891 the SS Augusta Victoria set sail on the first commercial Winter cruise.  Albert Ballin had literally invented the First Class Luxury Cruise.  This cruise was so successful that HAPAG had three more ships plying the cruise season the following year.  Albert didn’t stop there.  His next project was the first new ship, Prinzessin Victoria Luise, built specifically for cruising.  Albert forged ahead.  He went on to build the most prestigious and advanced ships that ever sailed before WW I.  His HAPAG liner, Amerika, was the first ship to have all electric lights, an extra tariff restaurant and elevators.  Amerika set the standards for Atlantic liners in 1903.  Albert went on to build the Big Three before WW I...the Imperator, Kaiser Wilhelm and the Vaterland.  Albert teamed with the great designers like Mewes and restauranteurs like Caesar Ritz.  Albert had HAPAG build an entire emigrant village with dormitories, cafeteria and medical services for the thousands of European emigrants who would sail from Hamburg.  

Albert Ballin was the creator of the modern cruise ship concept who realized that ocean travel could become something other than basic transportation between continents.  

[George C]

20 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

On my second cruise, Rotterdam V with my Mother's and Brother's first cruise, my travel agent gifted us with a good sized basket of fresh fruit and a box of candy.  I think we "nibbled", but most went to waste.  "It's the thought that counts".  It was appreciated.  

Rotterdam V is the ship that made me a cruise addict took her in both 1977 and 1978 both out of NYC back in my singles days , tons of fun.

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, George C said:

Rotterdam V is the ship that made me a cruise addict took her in both 1977 and 1978 both out of NYC back in my singles days , tons of fun.

 

Me too.  Cruises #1 and #2 were aboard her in 1970 and 1971 from New York.  What a pleasant addiction that we share!

[George C]

48 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Me too.  Cruises #1 and #2 were aboard her in 1970 and 1971 from New York.  What a pleasant addiction that we share!

It was so nice living in NYC cruise was a short taxi ride away, also I traveled with single world which had great hosts and shore excursions also women outnumbered men 2 or 3 to one,  traveled with them until I got married over a decade later.

[marco]

Way back when.....we went to Bermuda out of NYC on HAL's "Veendam". I'm pretty sure It, and the "Volendam" were formerly Moore/McCormick line's "Argentina" and "Brazil"

[George C]

I also remember being able to board other ships when docked in Bermuda and other ports by just showing my ships card if they were the same line or just when I ran into someone I knew and wanted to have a drink on there ship. Of course back then we all paid cash for everything. 

[CGTNORMANDIE]

2 hours ago, George C said:

I also remember being able to board other ships when docked in Bermuda and other ports by just showing my ships card if they were the same line or just when I ran into someone I knew and wanted to have a drink on there ship. Of course back then we all paid cash for everything. 

Not always...LOL.  I remember being on Amerikanis in St. Thomas and we were just about to step onboard Home Lines Homeric when we were told no go.  I really wanted to get onboard to check Homeric out she had originally been the Matson Line SS Mariposa built in 1932.  It seemed funny because there were pax from Home Lines onboard checking out Amerikanis...oh well.

Edited December 21, 2020 by CGTNORMANDIE

[CGTNORMANDIE]

5 hours ago, marco said:

Way back when.....we went to Bermuda out of NYC on HAL's "Veendam". I'm pretty sure It, and the "Volendam" were formerly Moore/McCormick line's "Argentina" and "Brazil"

I remember seeing the Veendam getting ready to sail from NY Harbor.  Those ships had many incarnations and were well loved.  I remember thinking how small Veendam looked compared to the SS France.  

[rkacruiser]

I do remember being able to visit another ship that was docked in port with my ship, but it was always of the same company.  I visited the "new" Statendam during her early years of service when I was sailing aboard Rotterdam V when we were docked in Juneau or Ketchikan.  WOW!  What a difference between the two as I walked through the Statendam's public rooms.  The Lido Restaurant made the biggest impression on my as I recall.  

 

But, I returned to my "home" Rotterdam V that afternoon.  I remained pleased, comfortable, and thankful that I had one more cruise aboard her before she left HAL service.  

[Lowiepete]

On 12/16/2020 at 12:31 PM, CGTNORMANDIE said:

The Caronia quickly became known as the Green Goddess...”the millionaires ship”  The rest, as they say, is history.  

Hello Folks,

 

I'm the guy who has built the Caronia Timeline and I do feel the need to correct something. More and more I'm coming across writings about the Caronia that are just plain wrong. Earlier today I read that passengers were met by chauffeur-driven Rolls Royces in every port for their passenger trips ashore. Oh, and that the ship quickly became known as the "Green Goddess" regularly pops up too. Caronia II was certainly known with a millionnaire's association, but it was as the "Millionnaire's Yacht"; back in the days when the prefix word carried 2 "N"s in its spelling.

 

First of all, there were never enough Rolls limousines ever built to satisfy the first claim and it just shows how some imaginings can run riot. The point lost is that "luxury" must not be confused with this vulgar ostentation! We were far more subtle in those days. The truth was that people with money _also_ came with an education on how to handle their wealth, with very few letting the side down.

 

Also, the "Green Goddess" moniker was only applied to the ship by her crew, and mostly by those who sailed on her regularly _AND_ came from Liverpool. The nickname would have been a marketing gift to Amex and Thos. Cook, along with the omni-present Cunard publicity team, yet the reality is that it _never_ appeared in any publicity material, not even on the daily material printed on board!

 

I know that it's a sacrilege to let the truth get in the way of a good story, but the coining of the name by the folks of Liverpool, showing their fondness for a ship that brought so much prosperity to their city, is the real story. This in the face of the rationing and deprivations of 1950s austerity Britain.

 

What needs to be remembered is that there was immense pride in this ship by all of her complement and playing your part in upholding her reputation was not undertaken lightly. It was hard work with very long hours and Cunard _almost_ paid us, but everything centred around keeping those who properly paid us as happy as we could. The pride in our lot is an intangible that's very difficult to fully express. 60 years on, the World is a very different place with few comparisons twixt then and now, hence my desire to keep the record straight.

 

Can I end by thanking those with the kind words about the Timeline. What started out as an alternative to building an acquisitions database has turned into many years of feedback I could never have dreamed of. Thanks.

 

Regards,

Steve
Caronia Timeline Webmaster

 

Interesting links...

[url="https://www.*****.info/m195705.php"]More about the Green Goddess moniker...[/url]

 

Comparing dollar inflation, then and now...

https://www.*****.info/m196611.php

 

How mundane Caviar Service _really_ was...

https://www.*****.info/m195602.php

Edited December 22, 2020 by Lowiepete

[Lowiepete]

This site isn't very disabled friendly, is it? With gammy hands it takes me an age to write stuff and setting such a drastic editing cut-off point is not helpful 😞

 

I tried to edit the interesting links, so, here they are and hopefully they now work.

 

More about the Green Goddess moniker...

Comparing US Dollar inflation, then and now...

How mundane Caviar Service really was...

 

Regards,

Steve

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Lowiepete
edited links so they work...

[marco]

In January of '71 we sailed out of NYC on the "Oceanic" and there was the Caronia/Caribia tied up in a berth.  I think just prior, it was in the paper that the ship got a parking ticket!!!!!! from the city for "illegal parking"! Sad to see such a beautiful ship come to such a sad end.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

16 hours ago, Lowiepete said:

This site isn't very disabled friendly, is it? With gammy hands it takes me an age to write stuff and setting such a drastic editing cut-off point is not helpful 😞

 

I tried to edit the interesting links, so, here they are and hopefully they now work.

 

More about the Green Goddess moniker...

Comparing US Dollar inflation, then and now...

How mundane Caviar Service really was...

 

Regards,

Steve

 

Thank you Louiepete aka Steve for maintaining all the historic information and your web sites concerning that great and beautiful ship.  

[rkacruiser]

In 2020, who really cares about whatever the moniker of the R.M.S. Caronia had?  

 

The fact is that she was a very special ship and remained so for so many years.  

 

Would it be too much to wish that when the next Cunard new build sails the seven seas, the "Queen" so-and-so be dropped in the name.  Return to the historic names of past Cunarders. 

 

Then, which would one choose for the first?  Caronia?  Mauretania?  Aquitania?  

 

Or the often forgotten fleetmates such as Brittanic, Scythia, Media, Parthia, Carinthia, etc.?

[CGTNORMANDIE]

I like Caronia...which would be the third time that Cunard used the name.  Berengaria was always another favorite!  
 

Everyone who is interested in ocean liner history should look at Lowiepete’s web site/s. A work of love...an intimate history of the great Caronia...truly fascinating.  

[Lowiepete]

16 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

In 2020, who really cares about whatever the moniker of the R.M.S. Caronia had?  

I think that's the point. These days "luxury" cruising is cookie-cutter plate service. It's all about the "personality chef", and not the paying passenger. On board the Caronia, the person who served you at table for 2 or 3 meals a day for up to 100 days was able to finely tailor your food to your exact taste and requirements and took much care and pride in doing so.

 

We quickly learned about how crispy, or not, _your_ roast potatoes should be. If they needed an extra crisp, the silver plated dish would find its way to a salamander and be suitably prepared. The pantryman would "have a way". The point about that being that the means to provide that level of care was available without fuss. 

 

Every aspect of your life on board was aimed at matching whatever you desired and it was provided by people who shared in wanting to provide it. You could "see" us if you wanted to, else everything was done with very quiet efficiency. Yes, we called the passengers "bloods" below decks, but that didn't stop anyone from wanting to bull their toecaps better than the next guy! I mention this because our shoes needed to contend with "Teepol" mixed with sea water toward the end of every service...

 

Today, as it's being confirmed, it's all about quiet, or even loud, fleecing of every last buck. For anyone to talk about passenger parties 60 years or more after the event tells its own story. Will that repeat itself in future? They were held by truly generous people. "Itsy Bitsy" brought back presents from all over the World for every last worker in her husband's factory and to be invited to serve at, let alone attend, one of her shindigs is a never to be forgotten experience. It was all about the style, not the money!

 

So, what's in a name? Well, the other green Cunarder with a name beginning with "Car" was just about the most unfriendly and scary ship afloat at that time. I don't look back at the 5 months I spent trapped aboard her with any fondness. The only comparison was the paint colours! The problem was that it could only rub-off on the passengers who really couldn't miss what was going on - like an open riot at her crew gangway in Lisbon when over 20 were taken off and returned to the UK by other means, and in disgrace.

 

The "Green Goddess" name is her crew's tribute to a ship where we crafted, and grafted, with a certain pride you cannot quantify. You'd probably better enjoy a cruise where you can go ashore for dinner in almost every port tasting local food and enjoying their hospitality. How about 4 overnights in Alexandria, Egypt and Yokohama, Japan or spending two nights each in Naples and Venice? Okay, the roads were a bit dusty back then but, apart from the goings-on in Vietnam and N.Ireland, the World was a much safer place (covid apart). 

 

Your marketer's "traditional" cruise today has no resemblance to those we provided back then. All I'm asking is that our name for a much beloved ship is not associated as a marketing term and the true reasons for its coining are not lost.

 

Regards,

Steve

Caronia Timeline Webmaster

Edited December 23, 2020 by Lowiepete

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Thanks so much Lowiepete...Steve for an enlightening talk on your experiences.  I sailed on the original Queen Elizabeth in 1965 and I experienced some of the service you are describing.  Those were certainly different times with a level of service rarely seen today.  Please continue to regale us with your experiences.  You would be amazed at how many people are lurking here.  Your web site is fantastic!

[Lowiepete]

47 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

I sailed on the original Queen Elizabeth in 1965 and I experienced some of the service you are describing.

Now, it's interesting that you mention the QE. If your sailing had been aboard the QM your recollections would most likely be much "fonder", with some lovely adjectives thrown in. The QE, being the flagship, carried a certain snobbism not found aboard the more established and much friendlier QM. Anyone transferred to Caronia from the QE would rarely wish to divulge the fact, yet those from the QM readily fitted in.

You would not believe how ships from the same line, with similarly sourced crews, could be so, so different from one another. Another really friendly ship, surprisingly, was the Franconia. Chalk and cheese with her sister ship! The Caronia probably stood out because of her very high crew to pax ratio, something the bigger ships could not match. You might think that it made our lives easier.

 

Perish that thought; we became extremely familiar with every last art-deco facet of the ship because everything was dusted and polished half to death! Even below decks, Captain's Inspection found the Chief Steward, or his deputy, wearing white gloves to test for possible failures. There were a few spare pairs in his pocket. Nothing would be said at the time, but if an officer lower in the pecking order got it in the neck, make no mistake, it was passed on. The day you'd really break your heart though was on arrival in Southampton to watch the longshoremen come aboard in droves yet not bothering to wipe their boots. Nowhere else in the World did that happen! 

 

I recently invited the designer of a modern passenger ship to a Caronia Crew Reunion and it became clear from his feedback (I didn't attend) that the two Worlds could only collide. I'm not sure he was impressed with what the old salts thought of the demands of modern day cruising. Like my contemporaries, I'd probably not want to travel in your modern-day prisons, especially as their resemblance seems to grow ever closer, in high-rise...

 

Thanks for your kind words - I blush.

 

Regards,

Steve

Edited December 23, 2020 by Lowiepete

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Thanks again Steve,

 

I can’t tell you what a thrill it is to actually talk to someone who worked on the Caronia...and what great years those were.  Cunard was at it’s nadir in the 1950’s.  All the little details you mention come back to me.  The rationing in Britain and the stewards doing everything “properly”.  The service was so much more exacting in those days.  Those are memories that have stayed with me.  I remember the stark reminders of the Blitz in London and other cities I toured in 1965.  There were very sharp reminders of the War.  Your saying how it was a welcomed break to be able to sail away during those years reminded me of the hard times Britain endured...the way things were.  I am an ocean liner historian.  I started collecting liner memorabilia when I was 16 years old and have never stopped.  Last year I gave my entire collection to a maritime museum.  I might add that I had some great pieces from Caronia from the 50’s and 60’s.  My own experiences on the QE were indelible.  Stepping aboard that night I well remember that first site of long shining passageways, the smell of furniture wax and flowers...how all that wood shined!  My first memories were looking up at the QE berthed in NY Harbor at 11:00 on a warm July night and she was lit up like a wedding cake.  A sight that I’ll never forget.  It was a case of love at first sight!  
 

BTW...Your detailed diatribe on Caviar Service is a true gem!

Edited December 23, 2020 by CGTNORMANDIE