Viking Expeditions Thread

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Andy, diverting to the Zodiac incident, this sounds like it was something under the deck, where are the fuel tanks located?  Could a combination of fuel leak and non-functioning bilge blower have resulted in an explosion?  No real experience with RHIBs, so just speculating.

 

Chief - Haven't purchased or used the Zodiac MilPro boats that Viking have, but many of the RHIB's have a double floor, with styrofoam between the layers for additional buoyancy. They are glued together with a small gap.

 

I have never seen fuel carried other than in portable tanks, or fixed tanks built into the seat/console. Looking at the RHIB's on the 360 view of the Hanger, I can't readily identify where the fuel is carried. A few days ago I mentioned that the only potential issues with a RHIB "Exploding" would be the fuel system or the inflatable collar.

 

Therefore, if it wasn't the collar, the only other options I can think of is the fuel system or a pyrotechnic. For the fuel system, if leaking and the floor has a hole/crack, it could potentially leak into the void between the floors (if they have a double floor), but it still requires the fuel/air mixture to be within the explosive range and also an ignition source.

 

I have seen a number of fuel leaks, both from the tanks and lines, but was fortunate to have no issues. However, the fuel system is definitely a potential.

 

Pyrotechnics - I have seen one situation with an RFD Marin Ark deployment when 1 of the pyros activated as it hit the water, burning the canopy. Based on the recent post last night, the boat was moving at the time of the incident, so may have dislodged the pyro container, which I assume is stored in the fwd locker.  

[Heidi13]

5 hours ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

Not sure why the pros are working overtime to defend Viking before any official reports are in, but as a layperson it still seems odd that a ship designed to sail in some of the most treacherous waters on earth would have glass windows that open so near to the waterline…

 

Since we don't have many facts, it is not my intent to defend Viking, more trying to correct the erroneous information provided by the proverbial armchair experts.

 

BTW - I have questioned the concept of those windows since the first time I read about these ships, but without having seen them, have to accept the design criteria were adequately addressed. Only time will tell, if the design criteria and/or concept were wrong, or if the ship experienced an event that was beyond all reasonable expectations.

 

When considering booking one of these ships, we discounted all of Deck 2, with the lowest cabin considered being Dk 3 close to midships.

[Insanityx4]

This is off the topic of ship design, windows breaking, Zodiac explosions, and the death of a passenger which was tragic, but I am wondering if anyone knows how and where the Polaris is being repaired and where the parts are coming from? I assume since the ship was built in Italy they would have to come from there. Also, I noticed all Octantis and Polaris cruises have just been listed as "SOLD OUT" until March. Does anyone know if there are more cancellations for safety reasons?

Thanks Andy and the Chief for sharing all of your knowledge from your many years at sea. 

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, Insanityx4 said:

This is off the topic of ship design, windows breaking, Zodiac explosions, and the death of a passenger which was tragic, but I am wondering if anyone knows how and where the Polaris is being repaired and where the parts are coming from? I assume since the ship was built in Italy they would have to come from there. Also, I noticed all Octantis and Polaris cruises have just been listed as "SOLD OUT" until March. Does anyone know if there are more cancellations for safety reasons?

Thanks Andy and the Chief for sharing all of your knowledge from your many years at sea. 

 

If I recall correctly Viking posted that to maintain the PC6 classification, the closest shipyard is Punta Arenas. Although the ship's hull and superstructure were built in Romania and then towed to Norway for fitting out, they can source parts worldwide.

 

Unfortunately, it is more than 20 years since I was involved in the procurement of windows and it was only for a single ship refit, so can't remember the manufacturers, or where they came from. Hopefully the Chief might know.

[IDLnyc]

On 12/4/2022 at 1:53 PM, Jacqueline said:

I am still waiting to hear how anyone thinks that it is responsible to offer kayak excursions in the Antarctic. And how the magical ICU on the Viking ship will save them. 
Hearing all the “expert” apologists on this thread defending a ship that couldn’t make it thru it’s first season without a fatality is a thought worth pondering. 
If the Hanseatic is “the same” how has it managed all these decades without a similar incident? 
Just google rouge waves and Drakes passage crossing to see how common these seas are. This isn’t Disney land.

We (72 and 75) kayaked on a  Seabourn cruise to Greenland.  Three years ago we kayaked on the Antarctic peninsula.

Yes, the cruise line provided dry suits.

The kayaking was in very still water - protected coves with ripples, no waves - some photogenic small bits of floating ice.  We felt very confident - our local river kayaking (New Jersey) is technically more challenging.

A guide in a kayak led the group of passengers, and a zodiac boat stayed close to the group, presumably to rescue anybody who got into trouble.  I wouldn't want to fall in, but I felt safe.

It was quiet and peaceful - almost a moment of solitude even though we were part of a group. 

 

Note, on the same trip Seabourn sponsored a "polar plunge" for passengers (tethered to the ship by a cable) who wanted to jump off the tender platform into the arctic water - in their bathing suits.  Seems insane to me,  but a couple  of participants actually lingered in the water for maybe 30  seconds.

[Insanityx4]

I didn't realize the Expedition ships were built in Romania. I guess it was the Ocean ships that are built in Italy. Thanks for the correction. 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

Unfortunately, it is more than 20 years since I was involved in the procurement of windows and it was only for a single ship refit, so can't remember the manufacturers, or where they came from. Hopefully the Chief might know.

For frames, I don't know, but tempered glass panels can be obtained in most major cities (Buenos Aires might be closest).  If they have the dimension drawings, then getting a fabricator to extrude the aluminum frames should not be hard, bronze might be a bit more difficult.  It is getting the installers to the ship that could be another problem.  I suspect that some of the "nordic balconies" will become "interior" cabins with steel plate over the windows.

[TrulyBlonde]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/viking-polaris-passengers-speak-rogue-wave-strikes-antarctic-cruise-ship-killing-american-woman#&_intcmp=hp1bt4,hp1bt

 

Info on the woman killed along with details from other passengers

[Insanityx4]

One more question! Would it even be possible to see a rogue wave coming in the middle of the night?

I realize crew on the bridge are on watch at all times and I understand the wave comes without warning, but wondering if it could be seen before hitting, especially in the dark?

[Jim Avery]

28 minutes ago, Insanityx4 said:

One more question! Would it even be possible to see a rogue wave coming in the middle of the night?

I realize crew on the bridge are on watch at all times and I understand the wave comes without warning, but wondering if it could be seen before hitting, especially in the dark?

No.

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

For frames, I don't know, but tempered glass panels can be obtained in most major cities (Buenos Aires might be closest).  If they have the dimension drawings, then getting a fabricator to extrude the aluminum frames should not be hard, bronze might be a bit more difficult.  It is getting the installers to the ship that could be another problem.  I suspect that some of the "nordic balconies" will become "interior" cabins with steel plate over the windows.

 

Not sure about the Polar Codes, but when we had to replace windows during a major refit, Flag State required a fire rating on every window. Windows iwo the survival craft had to be A-30 and all others A-0. We had to source complete units that came with the required certification.

 

Removing the existing glass and replacing would have been so much easier. Will be nice if Class permits them to replace the glass.

 

BTW - DW showed me an exceptional post on another social media platform in the Viking Expedition private group. Definitely worth checking out and reading.

[Heidi13]

5 hours ago, Insanityx4 said:

I didn't realize the Expedition ships were built in Romania. I guess it was the Ocean ships that are built in Italy. Thanks for the correction. 

 

The Expedition ships were built by Vard, which build a number of specialised vessels. They are owned by Fincantieri, who build the Ocean ships. The hulls are mostly fabrication, so that's done in Romania, then they headed to Norway for the specialised fitting out.

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, Insanityx4 said:

One more question! Would it even be possible to see a rogue wave coming in the middle of the night?

I realize crew on the bridge are on watch at all times and I understand the wave comes without warning, but wondering if it could be seen before hitting, especially in the dark?

 

In addition to being at night, the visibility is further reduced by probably rain, sea spray and possibly even other waves, especially when coming out the trough. It is unlikely they would get much, if any warning. The other consideration is even if they did see it coming, it probably would not provide sufficient time to analyse the situation and react.

 

Hopefully the AIBN report will answer these questions.

[nolabrewster]

     My husband and I were on the first Polaris cruise. It ended on November 3.  It was our ninth Viking cruise.  We were on Deck 4, just above where the windows were compromised.  Yes, the windows open.  A button on the side controls the motor.  You may stop the window in any position.  The bottom of the window is chest high (on a 5' 6" tall female). There is a ~12" wide shelf at the base.  No idea if the captain can flip a switch to close them or not.  The panel that moves moves slowly.  Plenty of time to get out of the way.  If you wanted to get caught in the window opening, you would have to be quite patient - and have an aider and abettor, or at least one arm six feet long.  One very neat thing about that cruise was the excitement of the crew members.  It was their first time down there, too.   Everyone was happy.  Last, Viking's attention to detail, including safety procedures, is impeccable.  My husband talked about the stabilizers.  I have no clue what they are, or how they work.  But, I know they do work.  10 to 11 meter seas at lunch one day.  Not a queasy tummy anywhere.  Not even a sensation of a roller coaster ride.  Just a strange view out the window.  Trough, crest, trough, crest.   30 feet of water between them.   Our next cruise with Viking is the Nile.  Now, if they would just do safaris...

[Catlover54]

The 62-year-old woman killed was from California, Sheri Zhu.

 

This is an account by two other pax on board, published in the UK earlier today.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11513423/Viking-Polaris-passengers-speak-rogue-wave-crashing-cruise-ship.html

[Catlover54]

And more about the sudden Zodiak event described/partially recorded  by two passengers who were on board it, in calm waters (pax were reportedly suddenly tossed several feet into the air, including the woman whose leg got smashed up):

 

 

https://www.yorkdispatch.com/story/news/local/2022/12/07/local-women-survive-rogue-wave-incident-on-viking-polaris-cruise-ship-video/69708845007/

[AussieBoyTX]

2 hours ago, Catlover54 said:

This is an account by two other pax on board, published in the UK earlier today.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11513423/Viking-Polaris-passengers-speak-rogue-wave-crashing-cruise-ship.html

 

The passenger's comment, "and there were no other ships close to us," is likely an interpretation of the actual situation. It's hard to be far away from other ships in this part of the Peninsula and there were several ships "nearby" crossing back to Argentina on Monday the 28th on schedule (at least Sea Spirit, Silver Endeavour & Ponant L'Austral & Le Lyrial). It's more likely that a transfer was deemed too risky given the passenger's condition. If the operation could be completed safely, I'd think that other vessels would be willing to provide Samaritan / mutual aid and bring this passenger back to Ushuaia..

 

I took this screenshot around 3pm on Sunday:

 

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by AussieBoyTX

[Heidi13]

Polaris has departed Ushuaia, bound for Punta  Arenas, ETA 8th December about Noon (Z-3)

[SightCRR]

We have all seen the damage from the outside to the windows but I wonder if there was failure to the non structural bulkheads that may have contributed to the injuries.   

[Jacqueline]

Here is actually video from the zodiac. Also, one person was thrown into the water with the force of the explosion that took place and was rescued by the passenger interviewed, it is lucky that they were fit enough to survive being thrown into polar waters. Passengers reported that they were thrown several feet into the air.

 

[chengkp75]

25 minutes ago, Jacqueline said:

Here is actually video from the zodiac.

Interesting that the video does not record a "loud boom" as the woman describes.  MayAlso of interest to me is the "porpoising" penguin, which usually is a defense against predators.  I've kind of wondered since I heard the "explosion" happened under the boat, whether a leopard seal or orca surfaced under them.  It's hard to know if the shot of penguins was continuous with the video of the boat jumping in the air, or whether she didn't capture the "explosion" and only the aftermath.  Will be interesting to get all statements from everyone on the boat, and the inspection of the boat.

 

And, I'm not disputing what they experienced, or saying that they are inaccurate in their description, just that it opens more questions in my mind.

Edited December 8, 2022 by chengkp75

[Goosebear Mum]

48 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Interesting that the video does not record a "loud boom" as the woman describes.  MayAlso of interest to me is the "porpoising" penguin, which usually is a defense against predators.  I've kind of wondered since I heard the "explosion" happened under the boat, whether a leopard seal or orca surfaced under them.  It's hard to know if the shot of penguins was continuous with the video of the boat jumping in the air, or whether she didn't capture the "explosion" and only the aftermath.  Will be interesting to get all statements from everyone on the boat, and the inspection of the boat.

 

And, I'm not disputing what they experienced, or saying that they are inaccurate in their description, just that it opens more questions in my mind.

Agree, having been down in that area many years ago, and on zodiacs; to me it sounded like something hitting the bottom of the zodiac hard, it could also explain the ‘buckling’ which was described, that everyone was sent ‘upwards’ and the fact the zodiac remained watertight.  A predator chasing the penguins could hit a boat hard, if it came up underneath.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Goosebear Mum

[Capt_Fred_FL]

I was aboard the inaugural Antarctic cruise of the Polaris and can attest that safety was the absolute main priority.  In addition to expediton staff, navigation officers were always present during every launch and retrieval of both the Zodiacs and Special Operations Boats.  There were instances where wet landings were cut short in order to allow for safe return to the ship when in cases where it was evident that approaching weather would result in deteriorating sea conditions for Zodiac operations.   

 

The windows are well designed and actually move slightly inboard to assure a watertight seal as they reach their full up travel.  Additionally, there are sensors on each side of the window which will halt the travel if the beam gets broken.

 

There is a large compartment in the bow of the Milpro Zodiac which houses the battery, fuel tank and some miscellaneous vessel equipment.  We encountered significant brush ice during most wet landings, some Zodiac tours.  The Zodiacs handled the ice well, (much better than the outboard's props did) however you could clearly feel the large ice chunks fight back against the inflatable. 

 

For those who have sailed the Drake, you know that the seas can be treacherous and unwelcoming.  What has occurred recently on Polaris is an extremely unfortunate event.  Based on my experience, Viking took no "cost cutting" measures when it came to construction of this vessel.    

 

  

[Insanityx4]

i have read on Facebook and other media sources that there is a possibility and some speculton that a whale or other large animal tried to breach under the Zodiac which threw people up in the air, caused a man to fall overboard, and a woman to seriously break her leg. It's just a theory but seems like a possible cause after hearing accounts from those on board the Zodiac when the incident occurred.

[Twitchly]

59 minutes ago, Insanityx4 said:

i have read on Facebook and other media sources that there is a possibility and some speculton that a whale or other large animal tried to breach under the Zodiac which threw people up in the air, caused a man to fall overboard, and a woman to seriously break her leg. It's just a theory but seems like a possible cause after hearing accounts from those on board the Zodiac when the incident occurred.

This is exactly what happened to a friend of ours while whale watching off the Gaspé Peninsula. Big bump from below the boat made it shoot upward. Our friend came down wrong. Leg snapped in several places. You don’t mess around with whales. Or whatever that was.

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Twitchly