Chances of a Kids Sail Free This Spring?

[Pandamonia]

2 hours ago, mek said:

Why should they do that?  If the rule is vaccinations are required in order to sail then that should be the rule with no exceptions.  Once you open the gate on one exemption, it will simply snowball - everyone will have their own reason why they should not be required to be vaccinated.

 

Before you go spouting about what other people should do. Maybe you should look in to how it works.

 

NO VACCINE HAS BEEN APPROVED FOR KIDS. 

[molly361]

11 minutes ago, Pandamonia said:

Before you go spouting about what other people should do. Maybe you should look in to how it works.

 

NO VACCINE HAS BEEN APPROVED FOR KIDS. 

So for the short term if there is no vaccine for kids when the ship's start sailing and the ships require vaccines kids will have to forgo cruising for a bit.  At the rate they are going the kids vaccine will be out before cruising begins.  Last I heard they were talking about July

[SNJCruisers]

5 hours ago, NateUpNorth said:

Honest question, if all crew and adults are vaccinated what is the risk to them with an unvaccinated person (child) on board? And if crew and adults are all vaccinated how is the "common good" affected at all?

 

Let's look at this logically...the risk with unvaccinated children on board will be higher than the risk with vaccinated children on board.  Don't care what the percentage differences are.  The common good is for the percentage to be as low as possible and that would be if the kids were vaccinated.

 

We can discuss the possibilities one way or another but in the long run the first main stream cruise line to make policy regarding whether kids need to be vaccinated or not will then make the other lines follow suit.  If the bean counters feel that having unvaccinated kids on boards so they can obtain the extra money that those families provide out weighs a 100% vaccinated cruise with no kids on board for the short term, then the policy will be made one way or another.

[SNJCruisers]

2 hours ago, lizzius said:

Just going to point people to this thread when people ask if the RC regulars are a family friendly bunch in the future. *Insert the world's biggest eye-roll*

I will infer that you are on the side of adult cruisers and crew gets vaccinated and kids don't have to, correct? 

[smokeybandit]

The rule should simply be if you're over 70 or have high risk medical conditions, you need a doctor's approval to sail (much like will be the case for the test cruise).

 

 

[Ashland]

Our original KSF booking for May 2019 was RCI cancelled (FCC 125%)...then booked May 2020 upgraded from JS's to three one bedrm GS's then I did a L/S to April 2022. Our price protection and KSF came along with us and we still have excess FCC's (which we're using for Alaska Sept. 2022)...This has worked out great for us and will be the first time we've been able to use this promotion when sailing with extended family that includes 4 kids under 8.

 

Sorry I got off track and back to the original post 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Ashland

[lizzius]

32 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

I will infer that you are on the side of adult cruisers and crew gets vaccinated and kids don't have to, correct? 

I personally don't think ships will sail until the majority of eligible adults get vaccinated anyway because what really matters is the amount of disease circulating where the ships sail from and where they're sailing to, and what level of hospital capacity is available to care for the ill. So everyone should still get out there and get vaccinated ASAP.

 

Secondly, if they're going to be required for anyone, I think they should be for the crew. They present a continued logistical challenge, and have a high cumulative risk of exposure... It also gets them beyond the US's quarantine requirements which means they could actually spend a day on shore (whereas an unvaccinated passenger would have their home available to isolate in). I also concur with the notion that anyone at an extreme elevated risk (either from a medical condition or age) from the virus should be required to have the vaccine and/or an extra screening in place (and this is with or without a vaccine mandate... Like it or not, older people are *still* more likely to need hospitalization post vaccination than unvaccinated children and are enough of a concern that cruise lines should be prepared for them).

 

A lot of people on this board think vaccines are the end all be all of the virus... They're not. They're a short cut to herd immunity and the virus becoming endemic with a baseline level of disease (that hopefully continues to become more and more treatable). The baseline may still include quite a bit of illness for vulnerable demographics, but likely will be on par with the flu. That's a huge victory. Given that, post mass-vaccination, it will be time for all of us to go back to normal, and everyone to decide where they fit in the new risk landscape. If that doesn't include being around unvaccinated children for you, then so be it. 

[Pandamonia]

I still dont understand the logic of why Kids need to be vaccinated when all the adults are. The vaccine prevents 95% of symptomatic infection after 2 doses.

[SNJCruisers]

1 minute ago, lizzius said:

I personally don't think ships will sail until the majority of eligible adults get vaccinated anyway because what really matters is the amount of disease circulating where the ships sail from and where they're sailing to, and what level of hospital capacity is available to care for the ill. So everyone should still get out there and get vaccinated ASAP.

 

Secondly, if they're going to be required for anyone, I think they should be for the crew. They present a continued logistical challenge, and have a high cumulative risk of exposure... It also gets them beyond the US's quarantine requirements which means they could actually spend a day on shore (whereas an unvaccinated passenger would have their home available to isolate in). I also concur with the notion that anyone at an extreme elevated risk (either from a medical condition or age) from the virus should be required to have the vaccine and/or an extra screening in place (and this is with or without a vaccine mandate... Like it or not, older people are *still* more likely to need hospitalization post vaccination than unvaccinated children and are enough of a concern that cruise lines should be prepared for them).

 

A lot of people on this board think vaccines are the end all be all of the virus... They're not. They're a short cut to herd immunity and the virus becoming endemic with a baseline level of disease (that hopefully continues to become more and more treatable). The baseline may still include quite a bit of illness for vulnerable demographics, but likely will be on par with the flu. That's a huge victory. Given that, post mass-vaccination, it will be time for all of us to go back to normal, and everyone to decide where they fit in the new risk landscape. If that doesn't include being around unvaccinated children for you, then so be it. 

3 paragraphs that I mostly agree with to get to your last line that confirms that you are on the children don't have to be vaccinated side, but all adult cruisers and crew need to be.  So, you obviously want to cruise with your kids ASAP instead of possibly having to wait about 6 months for a vaccine to be developed for kids.  Luckily the bean counters will be making that decision for us and at least we officially know which side of the line in the sand you are standing.

[RCCL Fan]

Ever post something....  walk away for a bit and come back and find a zillion posts and think......  I didn't ask about any of this.   hahahaha!     

 

love you guys.  (well some of you) lol

 

 

[SNJCruisers]

1 minute ago, Pandamonia said:

I still dont understand the logic of why Kids need to be vaccinated when all the adults are. The vaccine prevents 95% of symptomatic infection after 2 doses.

Because kids can still transmit the virus.  Even if the percentage difference is 1%, that is 1% in my favor with no kids on board until there is a vaccine for them.  But like I said previously, the bean counters at the cruise lines will determine the policy as we discuss the pros and cons on here ad nauseam.

[SNJCruisers]

2 minutes ago, RCCL Fan said:

Ever post something....  walk away for a bit and come back and find a zillion posts and think......  I didn't ask about any of this.   hahahaha!     

 

love you guys.  (well some of you) lol

You brought up a possibility of KSF, this possibility is a moot point if the bean counters determine that for the short term kids can't sail because they are not vaccinated.

[Pandamonia]

Just now, SNJCruisers said:

Because kids can still transmit the virus.  Even if the percentage difference is 1%, that is 1% in my favor with no kids on board until there is a vaccine for them.  But like I said previously, the bean counters at the cruise lines will determine the policy as we discuss the pros and cons on here ad nauseam.

Here is an idea.

 

How about you stay off the ship. Then your problem is 0% Unless you go to the shop back home and then you are back to square one.

 

Also how do kids transmit the virus exactly to a vaccinated person? Even if they did and you are the 5% you would only get a mild illness. That is the point. 

 

Do you know you are more likely to die on the way to the cruise ship than of Covid once vaccinated? 

[SNJCruisers]

8 minutes ago, Pandamonia said:

Here is an idea.

 

How about you stay off the ship. Then your problem is 0% Unless you go to the shop back home and then you are back to square one.

 

Also how do kids transmit the virus exactly to a vaccinated person? Even if they did and you are the 5% you would only get a mild illness. That is the point. 

 

Do you know you are more likely to die on the way to the cruise ship than of Covid once vaccinated? 

Guess you didn't read my last line about this being in the hands of the bean counters,  Enjoy your vacation with your kids, and keep stirring the pot with your 33+ posts and really original CC nickname.

[lizzius]

6 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

3 paragraphs that I mostly agree with to get to your last line that confirms that you are on the children don't have to be vaccinated side, but all adult cruisers and crew need to be.  So, you obviously want to cruise with your kids ASAP instead of possibly having to wait about 6 months for a vaccine to be developed for kids.  Luckily the bean counters will be making that decision for us and at least we officially know which side of the line in the sand you are standing.

The venom is a little uncalled for, and we actually don't have anything planned for nearly a year. I'm on the side of realism... People setting out with the expectation that cruises will or must be COVID free are setting all of us up for failure. Especially when we rope around to next fall, and the case count ticks higher as it's likely to do but deaths and hospitalizations stay under control. The virus is likely to be here with us forever, and we need to start preparing for that... Parroting this notion that the presence of virus at all is a failure is a good way to set us up for yearly shutdowns over flu/covid season for the foreseeable future.

 

And there is also no guarantee a vaccine will be approved for kids (especially young ones like mine), because the risk picture just isn't the same. If you believe (as I do) the FDA twiddled their thumbs for a month holding out a review process for adults to try to give the approval process a slightly thicker veneer of credibility, just wait until you see what they do when it involves kids. 4 doctors actually voted against approving the Pfizer vaccine (near the peak of the pandemic) because it included language that it could be used in 16 year olds (who were included in the trial) because they didn't believe the benefit outweighed the risk.

[orville99]

17 hours ago, RCCL Fan said:

What are the chances of seeing another kids sail free sale before the summer?   

Two: Slim and none, and Slim's in quarantine😷

[SNJCruisers]

1 minute ago, lizzius said:

The venom is a little uncalled for, and we actually don't have anything planned for nearly a year. I'm on the side of realism... People setting out with the expectation that cruises will or must be COVID free are setting all of us up for failure. Especially when we rope around to next fall, and the case count ticks higher as it's likely to do but deaths and hospitalizations stay under control. The virus is likely to be here with us forever, and we need to start preparing for that... Parroting this notion that the presence of virus at all is a failure is a good way to set us up for yearly shutdowns over flu/covid season for the foreseeable future.

 

And there is also no guarantee a vaccine will be approved for kids (especially young ones like mine), because the risk picture just isn't the same. If you believe (as I do) the FDA twiddled their thumbs for a month holding out a review process for adults to try to give the approval process a slightly thicker veneer of credibility, just wait until you see what they do when it involves kids. 4 doctors actually voted against approving the Pfizer vaccine (near the peak of the pandemic) because it included language that it could be used in 16 year olds (who were included in the trial) because they didn't believe the benefit outweighed the risk.

What venom are you talking about?  I fully agree with you that many people have expectations that if all the crew and adults on board are vaccinated that other mitigating factors such as masks, distancing and bubble excursions will be eliminated, when in fact I feel that they will still be in place because the cruise lines will be taking a conservative approach. 

The real question is how conservative and whether kids will need to be vaccinated or not.  It could only be a short term thing if cruising is back by Labor Day and a kids vaccine is available by January.  The bean counters will determine if the risk is too great or not and whichever side of the line in the sand everybody stands on will not matter.

[lizzius]

1 hour ago, SNJCruisers said:

You brought up a possibility of KSF, this possibility is a moot point if the bean counters determine that for the short term kids can't sail because they are not vaccinated.

Well go start a thread about that. Some of us like traveling with our kids.

[SNJCruisers]

2 minutes ago, Heymarco said:

With everyone’s logic here, kids should be the only ones cruising. Think about all the general health risks of anyone over 60, those that are obese, smoke etc. Why not just ban them first? I’ve seen more adults over 60 being carried out on stretchers than those under 16, just sayin. 🤷‍♂️

 

We are talking about Covid, which was not an issue when you saw someone being carried off on a stretcher on a previous cruise.  Whatever happened in the past means squat, the concern is what is going to be the official policy once all of the cruise lines finish jumping through the regulation hoops that are currently in place by the CDC.

[SNJCruisers]

1 minute ago, lizzius said:

Well go start a thread about that. Some of us like traveling with our kids.

Good for you....and we'll just see what the cruise lines will mandate as policy. 

Here's a link to a river cruise line in the US that is making vaccines mandatory, could possibly put your cruising in the short term with your kids on hold.

https://www.porthole.com/american-queen-steamboat-company-ceo-explains-mandatory-vaccine-decision/?fbclid=IwAR0BE9wFF5WQPJ7QE2ja4CBb0J0nGxeRKEvZavJcqeQ2McpyA8lDjeH9sz4

[SNJCruisers]

3 minutes ago, Heymarco said:

I know we are talking about COVID. But if kids are the only unvaccinated ones on the ship, who is spreading anything. The ratio alone would be forced herd immunity. 

Depending upon the time of year, the population on a ship could easily be 10% to 20% kids.  They would be the ones possibly spreading. 

[lizzius]

1 minute ago, SNJCruisers said:

Good for you....and we'll just see what the cruise lines will mandate as policy. 

Here's a link to a river cruise line in the US that is making vaccines mandatory, could possibly put your cruising in the short term with your kids on hold.

https://www.porthole.com/american-queen-steamboat-company-ceo-explains-mandatory-vaccine-decision/?fbclid=IwAR0BE9wFF5WQPJ7QE2ja4CBb0J0nGxeRKEvZavJcqeQ2McpyA8lDjeH9sz4

On the other hand, a perfect vacation for you!

 

But seriously, OP, I'm hoping they at least bring back KSF for parts of 2022.

[lizzius]

Just now, SNJCruisers said:

Depending upon the time of year, the population on a ship could easily be 10% to 20% kids.  They would be the ones possibly spreading. 

So the herd immunity threshold is at 90% now? You been talking to Fauci?

[lizzius]

4 minutes ago, Heymarco said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/covid-children-deaths/2020/09/25/9df39bf4-fdad-11ea-8d05-9beaaa91c71f_story.html

Even now I think it's as low 250 out of 500k total deaths. Meanwhile, 10 people over 60 died from COVID *post vaccination* in Israel in the last two weeks. 

[SNJCruisers]

1 minute ago, lizzius said:

On the other hand, a perfect vacation for you!

 

But seriously, OP, I'm hoping they at least bring back KSF for parts of 2022.

You couldn't get me on a Mississippi River cruise if it was free.  You're not cruising for the next year as you posted before, so you have no skin in the game.  When you cruise in summer of 22, your precious little darlings will be there with you.  The debate is whether other parents little darlings will be allowed in late 2021 and early 2022 or not.