Horrible planning and decision making by Royal

[coffeebean]

20 minutes ago, Babr said:

You are forgetting that unvaccinated is not a protected class. Not under ADA. Not under civil rights laws. Discrimination does not have a place in this discussion. 

Well. OK then.

[coffeebean]

30 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

No we won't. You continually come across as a vaccine bigot and that's very unfortunate. 

What exactly is a "vaccine bigot". I would love to hear your definition.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

2 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I would like to add that prior to Covid, we had to show our passports at the port of embarkation to board the ship. Why would it be different post Covid?

 

It isn't any different. My passport does not include covid information. Neither does yours. If a country requires covid vaccine information to enter, they can check it at their customs desk/ques upon entry. That's their decision. 

[rtazz17]

1 hour ago, CruisingHogFan said:

I really haven’t been following this too close since my last response. I followed up that it was never about health reasons  or is catching Covid. Some people just don’t read and want to argue….

My original point is if Royal wants to sail with unvaccinated passengers please do so. But don’t change the plans for us that don’t want to go that route and keep our sailing fully vaccinated. There are rumors floating around that the Nassau sailings are going to change and allow non vaccinated adults in July just like Florida/Texas.  We booked this sailing because we knew we would be on a cruise with the lowest chance of people testing positive. A unvaccinated person has a higher chance of testing positive sometime during the cruise compared to a vaccinated person. Not sure how anyone can argue that…. 

Again, it’s never been about health scares, living in fear, etc. for us. We have already been traveling and living life the last 6 months as normal as possible. But there is a big difference putting a couple thousand people on a ship for 7 days because that’s how our media/CDC perceives it right now. Like it or not, a certain percentage onboard test positive then the cruise is going to end immediately and go back to port. The media will have a field day with it and the CDC will be like we told you so.  I’m sorry but I don’t want my vacation to be cut short because of all this.

Infection rate is less then 1% and dropping daily. You are being an alarmest. Seek out science and facts.not conjecture 

[Goodtime Cruizin]

5 minutes ago, Babr said:

That is not the way it works. If a ship does not meet the country’s requirements, it is not allowed port entry. Period.  So if the ship knows from the start that it will not be accepted, it does not go there. It changes itinerary. Entry into any port is governed by the host country , and all passengers must follow that country’s rules - testing, documentation, whatever. The host country sets the rules. 

 

So the ship doesn't go there. It's that damn simple. It's their country, their borders, their laws, their customs. Cruiseships are not modes of transportation like commercial jets. Cruise ships are vacations that offer multiple stops based upon multiple days. If a country says you can't port here, then Royal finds another port. It is really simple. 

[Babr]

7 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

And you're forgetting that what is right is right. And what is wrong is wrong. Those that have been discriminated against have never needed the ADA or a Civil Rights Law to tell them what discrimination is. They know it. They felt it. They've only needed those laws to help them get through the bad habits of others.  

 

The discrimination on this board alone runs rabid. It's a disgrace and many posters should be ashamed of their behavoir. Thank God for the strength of a few people in very key postions to prevent this mess from continuing. 

Right and wrong are moral issues. You don’t get to decide what constitutes discrimination in a legal sense. Those laws are already on the books. You are trying to support your own sense of grievance with an argument that just does not hold up.

[John&LaLa]

1 minute ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

So the ship doesn't go there. It's that damn simple. It's their country, their borders, their laws, their customs. Cruiseships are not modes of transportation like commercial jets. Cruise ships are vacations that offer multiple stops based upon multiple days. If a country says you can't port here, then Royal finds another port. It is really simple. 

 

Or they return to port early

[Goodtime Cruizin]

9 minutes ago, Babr said:

That is not the way it works. If a ship does not meet the country’s requirements, it is not allowed port entry. Period.  So if the ship knows from the start that it will not be accepted, it does not go there. It changes itinerary. Entry into any port is governed by the host country , and all passengers must follow that country’s rules - testing, documentation, whatever. The host country sets the rules. 

 

Well then if the country wants proof, they'll ask for it upon arrival. We went on a 9 nine country cruise over 14 days, only two countries required passport inspections, Germany upon arrival athe airport & Russia upon getting off the ship. Don't tell me it can't be done. I know it can be done. I saw it being done. I was part of it being done. 

[coffeebean]

6 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Well then if the country wants proof, they'll ask for it upon arrival. We went on a 9 nine country cruise over 14 days, only two countries required passport inspections, Germany upon arrival athe airport & Russia upon getting off the ship. Don't tell me it can't be done. I know it can be done. I saw it being done. I was part of it being done. 

OK. Got it. Just wondering, do you consider it discrimination if a country requires proof of Covid vaccination to enter their country? Those will proof can disembark. Those without proof are bound to stay on the ship and can not enter said country.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

2 minutes ago, Babr said:

Right and wrong are moral issues. You don’t get to decide what constitutes discrimination in a legal sense. Those laws are already on the books. You are trying to support your own sense of grievance with an argument that just does not hold up.

 

So you don't want to cruise with non vaccined people and you think you're being forced to and you think it's wrong? Well stop the keyboard warrior crap and seek a lawyer, sue RCL and challenge it of you think you'd win. Otherwise, cancel your cruise out of Florida, schedule on out of St.Marten, or stop cruisingl.  You have multiple choices you can make.  Go for it.

[Babr]

1 minute ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Well then if the country wants proof, they'll ask for it upon arrival. We went on a 9 nine country cruise over 14 days, only two countries required passport inspections, Germany upon arrival athe airport & Russia upon getting off the ship. Don't tell me it can't be done. I know it can be done. I saw it being done. I was part of it being done. 

I did not say it could not be done. I said it is not done on a selective basis. All passengers meet the requirements or the ship does not enter. Often it is done by officials who board the ship and examine the documents so there is no delay in disembarking. That is why, on some itineraries, passengers surrender their passports upon embarkation. Those formalities ate often conducted in the background. And, yes, some countries require face to face processing. In Russia, we had to show our passports as well as our private tour tickets because the tour company provided our visas.

[Babr]

3 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

So you don't want to cruise with non vaccined people and you think you're being forced to and you think it's wrong? Well stop the keyboard warrior crap and seek a lawyer, sue RCL and challenge it of you think you'd win. Otherwise, cancel your cruise out of Florida, schedule on out of St.Marten, or stop cruisingl.  You have multiple choices you can make.  Go for it.

 You don’t like it when you are challenged, especially when you can’t defend your position.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

Just now, coffeebean said:

OK. Got it. Just wondering, do you consider it discrimination if a country requires proof of Covid vaccination to enter their country? Those will proof can disembark. Those without proof are bound to stay on the ship and can not enter said country.

 

I'm not Dutch, French, Honduran, etc. I'm an American. If I want to visit their country, I follow their laws. Or I choose not to go. It's really quite simple. With that. See you. 

[Goodtime Cruizin]

4 minutes ago, Babr said:

I did not say it could not be done. I said it is not done on a selective basis. All passengers meet the requirements or the ship does not enter. Often it is done by officials who board the ship and examine the documents so there is no delay in disembarking. That is why, on some itineraries, passengers surrender their passports upon embarkation. Those formalities ate often conducted in the background. And, yes, some countries require face to face processing. In Russia, we had to show our passports as well as our private tour tickets because the tour company provided our visas.

 

Exactly. So it can be done. And most likely will be done if a country absolutely wants a cruise ship out of Florida to stop at their port. If not, the ship moves on. 

[wreckem2013]

People calling vaccine requirements discrimination is an insult to the real discrimination going on against people every day.
 

Funny how most people calling vaccine requirements discrimination are generally the first to call real discrimination made up.

This anti vaccine nonsense is an entitlement issue not a discrimination issue.

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by wreckem2013

[Goodtime Cruizin]

8 minutes ago, Babr said:

 You don’t like it when you are challenged, especially when you can’t defend your position.

 

I don't have to defend my position. The law defends my position. Further, I'm vaxed and cruising with non vaxed folks does not bother me at all. Now masking... that's a bother. I won't like it, but I also won't whine like a baby on this forum either. I'll cancel cruises that require me to mask up and move on. 

[Babr]

18 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Exactly. So it can be done. And most likely will be done if a country absolutely wants a cruise ship out of Florida to stop at their port. If not, the ship moves on. 

Never said that - just describing the various ways it can be done if a ship is cleared for port entry by complying with that country’s requirements. “Wants” does not really enter into the equation. Are you suggesting that some of the Caribbean countries are so desperate that they will compromise their own standards?

Edited June 6, 2021 by Babr

[Babr]

1 minute ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

I don't have to defend my position. The law defends my position. Further, I'm vaxed and cruising with non vaxed folks does not bother me at all. Now masking... that's a bother. I won't like it, but I also won't whine like a baby on this forum either. I'll cancel cruises that require me to mask up and move on. 

No, the law does not defend your position. We have already been over that.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

6 minutes ago, wreckem2013 said:

People calling vaccine requirements discrimination is an insult to the real discrimination going on against people every day.
 

Funny how most people calling vaccine requirements discrimination are generally the first to call real discrimination made up.

This anti vaccine nonsense is an entitlement issue not a discrimination issue.

 

 

Feel insulted. 

[Goodtime Cruizin]

1 minute ago, Babr said:

No, the law does not defend your position. We have already been over that.

 

No... you have been over that already. I know what's up. I'm good. 

[Babr]

1 minute ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

No... you have been over that already. I know what's up. I'm good. 

You don’t know what’s up. You bluster and spout falsehoods and then retreat.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

Just now, Babr said:

You don’t know what’s up. You bluster and spout falsehoods and then retreat.

 

Ha. So says you.... the guy chasing me. 

[Babr]

Just now, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Ha. So says you.... the guy chasing me. 

Because you are running away.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

1 minute ago, Babr said:

Because you are running away.

 

I've stated my positions. Answered all the questions some silly as hell. I believe what I believe and you don't like it. That's too bad. But do try to keep up.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

3 minutes ago, Babr said:

Because you are running away.

 

Not away....  just circles around you... LOL