So the states can mandate the rules?

[not-enough-cruising]

48 minutes ago, detroitautocruisers said:

what's the difference between a vax or unvax person you both can carry the virus!

HUGE difference in the amount of transferable virus carried. 

[coffeebean]

21 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Of which there are none, currently

The key word is "currently". That may change in the future. The key word being "may".

[coffeebean]

21 hours ago, RedIguana said:

381.00316 COVID-19 vaccine documentation.— 1122 (1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include 1123 any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or 1124 customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 1125 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry 1126 upon, or service from the business operations in this state. 1127 This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from 1128 instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or 1129 controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health. 1130 (2) A governmental entity as defined in s. 768.38 may not 1131 require persons to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19

 

           There is no Airline exemption in this bill other than allowing covid testing for screening. When the EU opens up for vaccinated Americans for non essential travel  the airlines will probably be required to ask if vaccinated and for proof. Also to the best of my knowledge their is no "International Zone" anywhere in the US other than for duty free purposes, and all state and federal laws as applicable apply according to the state the airport is in.

            I would be happy to eat crow if I am wrong on this, I just can't find anything to the contrary

 

If I recall, the posted section of the law did include exemptions for Airlines and it did specify airlines. I'm not about to try and find it myself but I do remember saying to myself, "Hell, if the airlines have an exemption, then why not cruise lines? Hmmm."

[coffeebean]

21 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Hmmmmm.... that's is being afraid. Your words, not mine. 

Do the words, "just don't want" equate to "being afraid"? I don't think so.

[coffeebean]

22 hours ago, ONECRUISER said:

Funny thing is like many others I got my Vaccines in a State isn't my Primary Residence. I remember thousands were going to Florida for Tourist Vaccines. Then even though gave them info never made it to my Dr Office 2 miles away. Even the Vaccine Card they gave me had no Personal info on it, had fill it out myself. 

I wish I could have filled out my personal information on my CDC card. The handwriting would be much neater.

[coffeebean]

21 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

EDIT coffee bean, i posted this before I saw your correction above.  apologies

Apology accepted. You're good!

[coffeebean]

21 hours ago, RedIguana said:

The link you provided in no way invalidates the Fl law as written that I could find. . They are a business doing business in Florida as the law is written. I personally do not think the law will stand up to a challenge, but as written the airlines are not exempt.

Seems to me that law was crafted by 5 year olds if airlines are not exempt. Sheesh!

[firekapy]

21 hours ago, cruiserking said:

No. It's not being afraid it's being irritated, annoyed, frustrated. We've been vaccinated, we did what is necessary to return to normal life. We also expect to return to normal cruise life and not pay the penalty of having our cruise shortened by irresponsible vacationers. 

 

Jonathan

Spot on!!!

[cruiserking]

1 hour ago, detroitautocruisers said:

what's the difference between a vax or unvax person you both can carry the virus!

If the ship is carrying 95% vaccinated passengers it is unlikely than anyone will catch COVID.

 

 Conversely if there are many unvaccinated passengers they will infect each other. 

 

A cruise ship is a mircocosm of our society. The more people that get vaccinated the faster we can eradicate this deadly virus. If everyone on board is vaccinated we can all cruise safely without the need of social distancing, masking or testing. 

 

Jonathan

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Seems to me that law was crafted by 5 year olds if airlines are not exempt. Sheesh!

They don’t need to be specifically exempted. There is a provision in the legislation where it states the law is not intended to conflict with or otherwise apply in contravention of federal law or protections. Very standard catch all.  Don’t need a multi-page laundry list of every exemption under the sun. 

[coffeebean]

20 hours ago, harkinmr said:

Oh, but it does have an effect on airline operations if what you contend is true: that the vaccine ban is applicable to them.  The theory being that the state can fine the airline based on the ban.  As I said, and you repeated, the law does not PREVENT the airlines from asking for proof of vaccination, it just purports to be able to fine them.  The fine would be unlawful against them as their is no authority to impose it to begin with.

 

You raise an interesting and more important point at the end, and it goes more specifically to how much the ban would not apply to the airlines.  IF a foreign country requires a vaccine to enter, the country will not allow the airline to land or disembark passengers unless such vaccine clearance is given.  The airlines, instead of risking this, will/do ask for proof of vaccination before boarding any passenger to travel to that country.  In that instance, it is international law driving the mandate and that is REALLY out of the realm of what the state can control.  

 

The airlines will not face fines.  And my firm belief is that the cruise companies will not either.

What I get from what you had to say is, if all countries that the cruise lines call in REQUIRE proof of vaccination for entry to their country, then the Florida law will be moot. Any chance of that happening?

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

What I get from what you had to say is, if all countries that the cruise lines call in REQUIRE proof of vaccination for entry to their country, then the Florida law will be moot. Any chance of that happening?

International law and requirements will apply. The Florida law in no way preempts that. 

[RedIguana]

31 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

f I recall, the posted section of the law did include exemptions for Airlines and it did specify airlines. I'm not about to try and find it myself but I do remember saying to myself, "Hell, if the airlines have an exemption, then why not cruise lines? Hmmm."

I literally posted the law above..no airline exemption there. Only exemption spelled out is for certain health care entities.

[coffeebean]

18 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Seems like Celebrity came up with a good way to handle it.  Hitting anyone showing up without vaccination proof in the wallet. 
 

So, what exactly is Celebrity going to charge for those Covid tests? $200 should do it for EACH test. That's two hundred dollars. LOL.

 

But, but, but.....the vaxxed folks are going to say that is price gouging. Call it what you want. This is a way to skirt that damn Florida law.

Edited June 9, 2021 by coffeebean

[coffeebean]

17 hours ago, ChuckRambo said:

^^^This…on steroids^^^

For the 100000000000000th time.........................

Never mind. I already said that.

[coffeebean]

17 hours ago, ChuckRambo said:

Curiously, there IS a right to vote and there are a lot of people who insist that it is illegal and unconstitutional to demand an identification card to do so. 

 

Please also see “public accommodation” laws. 

Who are these people that insist ID is not needed to vote in this country? How does one prove they are a US citizen then to vote in our country? That just seems ludicrous to not show ID to vote. People who think we should not require ID to vote in our country scare the hell out of me. What are they thinking?

[RedIguana]

35 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

They don’t need to be specifically exempted. There is a provision in the legislation where it states the law is not intended to conflict with or otherwise apply in contravention of federal law or protections. Very standard catch all.  Don’t need a multi-page laundry list of every exemption under the sun. 

1121 381.00316 COVID-19 vaccine documentation.— 1122 (1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include 1123 any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or 1124 customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 1125 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry 1126 upon, or service from the business operations in this state. 1127 This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from 1128 instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or 1129 controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health. 1130 (2) A governmental entity as defined in s. 768.38 may not 1131 require persons to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 ENROLLED 2021 Legislature CS for CS for SB 2006, 2nd Engrossed 20212006er Page 40 of 42 CODING: Words stricken are deletions; words underlined are additions. 1132 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry 1133 upon, or service from the governmental entity’s operations in 1134 this state. This subsection does not otherwise restrict 1135 governmental entities from instituting screening protocols 1136 consistent with authoritative or controlling government-issued 1137 guidance to protect public health. 1138 (3) An educational institution as defined in s. 768.38 may 1139 not require students or residents to provide any documentation 1140 certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery for 1141 attendance or enrollment, or to gain access to, entry upon, or 1142 service from such educational institution in this state. This 1143 subsection does not otherwise restrict educational institutions 1144 from instituting screening protocols consistent with 1145 authoritative or controlling government-issued guidance to 1146 protect public health. 1147 (4) The department may impose a fine not to exceed $5,000 1148 per violation. 1149 (5) This section does not apply to a health care provider 1150 as defined in s. 768.38; a service provider licensed or 1151 certified under s. 393.17, part III of chapter 401, or part IV 1152 of chapter 468; or a provider with an active health care clinic 1153 exemption under s. 400.9935. 1154 (6) The department may adopt rules pursuant to ss. 120.536 1155 and 120.54 to implement this section.

 

 

Once again, here is the whole section. It was hastily inserted into a bill on emergency orders and powers. All of the standard disclaimers were left out. No provision saying it is not intended to conflict with other laws. I believe the E.O. had that, but would have to check. It is 100% intended to stand alone. The question is whether they try to enforce it or not.

[coffeebean]

16 hours ago, Babr said:

You are over-thinking this. A vaccine passport, as I see it, would simply be a way to verify vaccination required for international travel. We already have regular passports to prove citizenship. What is so hard about that?

 

What else do you think they'd be used for? What rights are you giving up? Has anybody ever asked for one to grant you access to anything? 
 

We are on the downside of this pandemic. Once it is safely under control, proof of vaccine will be a non-issue.

 

I don’t understand the hysteria.

 

 

 

It's not hysteria. It is drama. That is all. No other reason to claim our freedoms are at stake if we have to show proof of a vaccine that is life saving and has the capacity to get a 100 year global pandemic under control.

[RedIguana]

9 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Who are these people that insist ID is not needed to vote in this country? How does one prove they are a US citizen then to vote in our country? That just seems ludicrous to not show ID to vote. People who think we should not require ID to vote in our country scare the hell out of me. What are they thinking?

You prove your citizenship when you register to vote. Any I.D. other than a Birth Certificate or Passport does not prove citizenship (that I know of...please let me know if there are more).  When you vote, your name is noted as having cast a ballot, no one else will be able to cast a ballot under your name. So really actual I.D. is only a problem if someone else tried to cast a ballot before you using your name. Every polling place I have been to requires some form of I.D., it just doesn't necessarily have to be a specific government issued one.

 

Edit to add naturalization papers etc.....

Edited June 9, 2021 by RedIguana
added more proof of citizenship

[coffeebean]

16 hours ago, Babr said:

Who is imposing that? Where did that idea come from?

It would only impact people who want or need to travel internationally.

Agree. Cruising comes to mind.

[jrapps]

30 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

So, what exactly is Celebrity going to charge for those Covid tests? $200 should do it for EACH test. That's two hundred dollars. LOL.

 

But, but, but.....the vaxxed folks are going to say that is price gouging. Call it what you want. This is a way to skirt that damn Florida law.

$200 is not price gouging, it is close to the average cost that a Covid test is on land already.

 

If they really want it to encourage people to get vaccinated, they will charge it closer to $350-$400. That's an extra $1400-$1600 per cabin double occupancy.

 

Of course then those unvaccinated will just spend $20 on a fake CDC card instead....

 

[coffeebean]

16 hours ago, ChuckRambo said:

There are quite a few who seem to believe that herd immunity is achieved by vaccination alone. It is not. Herd immunity = Vaccinated plus previously infected plus naturally immune. And there are a LOT of previously infected people who have been advised by their physician not to get vaccinated. 

Who are these doctors? I would never want to be under their care. Unless there is a medical reason, there is no reason why a person who has had Covid should not be vaccinated. It is negligent for any doctor to advise against the vaccine.

 

BTW, the doctor's treating Trump advised him to get vaccinated after he and Melania both had Covid. They did the smart thing and did get vaccinated for Covid.

 

Why you need to get vaccinated even if you have had Covid

 

 

[coffeebean]

15 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

What your 'afraid' of doesn't matter. The fact is you're afraid and you shouldn't go or if you do go, it shouldn't be on the premise of penalizing others because you're fear. 

 

Word semantics.

[coffeebean]

15 hours ago, Catnip said:

No, I'll never "get" your way of thinking.   Thank goodness!  🙄
Happy sailing! 

What is so difficult to understand that most vaxxed folks do not fear getting Covid. Unless you walk in our shoes, your "way of thinking" is skewed. Again, you just don't get it. That's OK though because there are LOTS of folks who do "get it".

[jrapps]

22 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

What is so difficult to understand that most vaxxed folks do not fear getting Covid. Unless you walk in our shoes, your "way of thinking" is skewed. Again, you just don't get it. That's OK though because there are LOTS of folks who do "get it".

There is understanding, and agreeing. You can have a rational conversation with someone who understands your perspective (i.e. get it) even if they disagree with it.

 

You can not have a rational conversation with someone that refuses to understand your position no matter what.