So the states can mandate the rules?

[Babr]

33 minutes ago, ChuckRambo said:

 

Absolutely correct. If you were to mandate “vaccine passports” at the federal level you would see the inevitable result: A new federal government agency created to enforce and regulate them. And, as anyone paying attention should already know, once a federal bureaucracy is created it has to be funded and it never, ever goes away. 

You are over-thinking this. A vaccine passport, as I see it, would simply be a way to verify vaccination required for international travel. We already have regular passports to prove citizenship. What is so hard about that?

 

What else do you think they'd be used for? What rights are you giving up? Has anybody ever asked for one to grant you access to anything? 
 

We are on the downside of this pandemic. Once it is safely under control, proof of vaccine will be a non-issue.

 

I don’t understand the hysteria.

 

 

 

[ChuckRambo]

17 minutes ago, Babr said:

You are over-thinking this. A vaccine passport, as I see it, would simply be a way to verify vaccination required for international travel. We already have regular passports to prove citizenship. What is so hard about that?

…

We are on the downside of this pandemic. Once it is safely under control, proof of vaccine will be a non-issue.

 

I don’t understand the hysteria.

 

 

 

And, there is an entire Cabinet level of government that deals with regular passports.

 

I don’t understand the hysteria, either. There is zero need for a vaccine passport and a staggering downside to imposing them on US citizens.

Edited June 9, 2021 by ChuckRambo

[Babr]

4 minutes ago, ChuckRambo said:

And, there is an entire Cabinet level of government that deals with regular passports.

 

I don’t understand the hysteria, either. There is zero need for a vaccine passport and a staggering downside to imposing them on US citizens.

Who is imposing that? Where did that idea come from?

It would only impact people who want or need to travel internationally.

[harkinmr]

14 minutes ago, Babr said:

 

We are on the downside of this pandemic. Once it is safely under control, proof of vaccine will be a non-issue.

 

I don’t understand the hysteria.

 

 

 

Yes. We are on the downside of this pandemic. Thanks to vaccines and those willing to get them. It is not happening by magic or “a miracle” as some would have us believe. But the downside will not be universal. There will be herd immunity achieved in pockets of the country, but not in others because of vaccine hesitancy and continuing infection and variants. Hopefully cruising at some point in the future will return to normal and any vaccine requirements and protocols will go away. We will see.

[ChuckRambo]

There are quite a few who seem to believe that herd immunity is achieved by vaccination alone. It is not. Herd immunity = Vaccinated plus previously infected plus naturally immune. And there are a LOT of previously infected people who have been advised by their physician not to get vaccinated. 

[ChuckRambo]

8 minutes ago, Babr said:

Who is imposing that? [vaccine passports] Where did that idea come from?

 

Not a big mystery. The state of NY already has a form of vaccine passport. Other states (you can guess which ones) will, no doubt, follow that example. In England there was an attempt by the NHS to create a vaccine passport but it has, by some accounts, failed.

 

And there are a lot of people posting here who most definitely want to see a virtual vaccine passport (vax records or immunization cards) used by RC to allow passage on their ships.

 

It’s a bad idea and no good would come of it. 

[harkinmr]

1 minute ago, ChuckRambo said:

There are quite a few who seem to believe that herd immunity is achieved by vaccination alone. It is not. Herd immunity = Vaccinated plus previously infected plus naturally immune. And there are a LOT of previously infected people who have been advised by their physician not to get vaccinated. 

I would agree that herd immunity is based on some combination of vaccinated persons and those previously infected, but the percentage of vaccinated population necessary is much higher than the level we are at right now.  We may never achieve the required level. In addition, there will be differences depending upon area of the country. There is currently no data showing established long term or infinite immunity in the previously infected. Those who have been infected should understand what their antibody levels are at any point in time.  I know that the previously infected who have had antibody treatments for COVID-19 are generally advised to wait a specified period of time to be vaccinated.  Otherwise, the general recommendation is that even if you have been infected you should still get vaccinated.  

[Biker19]

1 hour ago, Babr said:

I don’t understand the hysteria.

That's how some CC posters roll.

[Babr]

1 minute ago, Biker19 said:

That's how some CC posters roll.

You are making an unfair assumption.
 

I really don’t understand what the fuss is about. I looked up the NY vaccine document, and I’m trying to understand its purpose. In a densely populated area like that, it may be necessary to to have as part of the opening process. Anyway, I see it as a temporary thing.

 

I’m still thinking through it.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

9 hours ago, Canadianmama3 said:

Exactly.  Vaccinated cruises aren’t afraid of getting sick.  They are afraid of having their cruise ruined because of an outbreak among unvaccinated cruises.  And angry they will have to deal with restrictions they wouldn’t have to if everyone was vaccinated 

 

What your 'afraid' of doesn't matter. The fact is you're afraid and you shouldn't go or if you do go, it shouldn't be on the premise of penalizing others because you're fear. 

 

[Catnip]

8 hours ago, coffeebean said:

You can thumbs up all you want. You just do not get it.

No, I'll never "get" your way of thinking.   Thank goodness!  🙄
Happy sailing! 

[Catnip]

9 hours ago, Canadianmama3 said:

Exactly.  Vaccinated cruises aren’t afraid of getting sick.  They are afraid of having their cruise ruined because of an outbreak among unvaccinated cruises.  And angry they will have to deal with restrictions they wouldn’t have to if everyone was vaccinated 

And will you be just as afraid and angry if (when) a vaxx cruiser(s) gets covid on your cruise?

[Eddie Wilson]

2 hours ago, ChuckRambo said:

. And, as anyone paying attention should already know, once a federal bureaucracy is created it has to be funded and it never, ever goes away. 

 

The old saying is there is no such thing as a temporary tax or agency.

 

How wrong they are, as the telephone excise tax established in 1898 to fund the Spanish American War was repealed by IRS around 2006, AND we received a $30 credit on our tax returns.

 

Did it take Congress 108 years to find out the Spanish American war ended?  Not really, it was inactivated a few times then reestablished a few more times, the prove ChuckRambo’s point, these things rarely go away.

 

Eddie

Edited June 9, 2021 by Eddie Wilson

[RedIguana]

3 hours ago, harkinmr said:

The airlines will rightfully ignore this law. Let the state attempt to fine them and see them laughed out of court. Apparently you believe that the Governor’s power is limitless. It is what he would like you to believe.  It is not. 

This is the whole point I was making. The law as written grants them the authority...until the court toss's it. 

[ArthurUSCG]

10 hours ago, Babr said:

You are over-thinking this. A vaccine passport, as I see it, would simply be a way to verify vaccination required for international travel. We already have regular passports to prove citizenship. What is so hard about that?

 

What else do you think they'd be used for? What rights are you giving up? Has anybody ever asked for one to grant you access to anything? 
 

We are on the downside of this pandemic. Once it is safely under control, proof of vaccine will be a non-issue.

 

I don’t understand the hysteria.

 

 

 

I guess people have lived in such a small bubble they have never had to use or see a WHO Vaccine card, aka paper vaccine passport, or have not had to have a copy of their vaccine records on hand for travel.

[Babr]

9 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

What your 'afraid' of doesn't matter. The fact is you're afraid and you shouldn't go or if you do go, it shouldn't be on the premise of penalizing others because you're fear. 

 

No one is being penalized out of fear. That is an empty rebuke and smacks of made-up grievance.

[chengkp75]

11 hours ago, ChuckRambo said:

Curiously, there IS a right to vote and there are a lot of people who insist that it is illegal and unconstitutional to demand an identification card to do so. 

 

Please also see “public accommodation” laws. 

Yes, please do see "public accommodation" laws, which only limit denial of service if that denial is based on a specific list of protected classes.  Denial of service based on vaccination status is the same as "no shirt, no shoes, no service".  Or is that "illegal and unconstitutional" as well?

[ArthurUSCG]

16 hours ago, ONECRUISER said:

Funny thing is like many others I got my Vaccines in a State isn't my Primary Residence. I remember thousands were going to Florida for Tourist Vaccines. Then even though gave them info never made it to my Dr Office 2 miles away. Even the Vaccine Card they gave me had no Personal info on it, had fill it out myself. 

The paper card was designed to be used just for your records. When you signed up you should have been required to enter the necessary PII for positive identification within the states records system. Unfortunately, the USA electronic medical records system is just as broken as the rest of our system and there are competing electronic systems that won't talk to each other. So, it is likely your Drs office is saying they don't have the info because their system can't receive or process the data from the state's system.

 

Also, Florida's record system.... well... it might as well be on punch cards, they are so far behind, I think Mississippi has a better system and IT personal that have a clue. It's just like Florida's unemployment system that was designed pre AWS and couldn't be migrated to a new system or modified to scale to handle the increased volume.

[jean87510]

14 minutes ago, ArthurUSCG said:

The paper card was designed to be used just for your records. When you signed up you should have been required to enter the necessary PII for positive identification within the states records system. Unfortunately, the USA electronic medical records system is just as broken as the rest of our system and there are competing electronic systems that won't talk to each other. So, it is likely your Drs office is saying they don't have the info because their system can't receive or process the data from the state's system.

 

Also, Florida's record system.... well... it might as well be on punch cards, they are so far behind, I think Mississippi has a better system and IT personal that have a clue. It's just like Florida's unemployment system that was designed pre AWS and couldn't be migrated to a new system or modified to scale to handle the increased volume.

There are ways to get your covid vaccine record info if you want.  Even if you went to a different state to get them which did happen with college and snowbirds.  I believe CVS and Riteaid.com has their records on their website that of course you need an account for to access which you would have created anyway to schedule an appointment.  The PCP office can also obtain them even if out of state.

Edited June 9, 2021 by jean87510

[chengkp75]

14 hours ago, ChutChut said:

Usually, the Commerce Clause is referenced due to Congress taking an action (enacting laws) certain entities/individuals don't believe it has the power to enact. 

While this may well be the case for Commerce Clause case law, I believe that there are far more "Dormant" Commerce Clause cases, and these are totally involved in whether a state statute interferes with interstate/foreign commerce.

[SargassoPirate]

18 hours ago, Babr said:

 

Vaccinated people do not want the imposition of restrictions that could result whether anyone gets sick or not. And they certainly do not want the interruption of their trip if someone does get sick.
 

 

And it is for the reason you stated that I am not desperate to return to cruising.  I don't want to cruise where masking and distancing are required, nor with "bubble" excursions - let alone the chance that the ship may be turned away from a port if a local official gets nervous if there is a case of flu on board.

 

 

[At Sea At Peace]

21 hours ago, cruiserking said:

We are not afraid of cruising. We just don't want our 7-day Bahamas cruise to end after three days because unvaccinated people caught COVID and the ship had to return to port. 

 

Jonathan

 

I understand those that have this concern only with regards to the potential for negative logistics of consequence.  I believe the % chance for a 'Princess event is minor, but not zero; as is for a 100% vaccinated crew and passenger cruise.

 

The "unvaccinated" population includes ~ a huge, possibly larger than the vaccinated population, that have 'natural immunity' and research and data are now only forthcoming about the relative strength and potential life-long durability of such with still varying opinions on whether the vaccine (partially or fully dosed) impacts such in the long-term (time hasn't warped forward and back for such data).  I feel for this population and, in states and cities requiring vaccination proof, there should be an equivalent accommodation for those with 'natural immunity.'  There are political science consequences to this from the establishment; it precludes total reliance on continued vaccinations and monetization of big pharma and that has consequence$.

 

I don't have a solution at this time as to how to accommodate this population, generally or specifically regarding cruise resumption.  I do believe that name-calling, belittling, demeaning such population is not appropriate; rather, a simple understanding of the concerns of over a 100M.  I also don't mind individuals being able to 'optionally selecting vaccinated cruises' by choice for a while in this resumption only so long as there is a balance of alternate cruises for others.

[ONECRUISER]

2 hours ago, ArthurUSCG said:

The paper card was designed to be used just for your records. When you signed up you should have been required to enter the necessary PII for positive identification within the states records system. Unfortunately, the USA electronic medical records system is just as broken as the rest of our system and there are competing electronic systems that won't talk to each other. So, it is likely your Drs office is saying they don't have the info because their system can't receive or process the data from the state's system.

 

Also, Florida's record system.... well... it might as well be on punch cards, they are so far behind, I think Mississippi has a better system and IT personal that have a clue. It's just like Florida's unemployment system that was designed pre AWS and couldn't be migrated to a new system or modified to scale to handle the increased volume.

Mother got her info sent to same Dr's Office after her Vaccine received, my info still hasn't. Had Dr appt last Thursday and only record they received was me telling them. I'm not worried, I filled in my personal info on the Card after shot so good to go if Vaccine to Cruise are required in Fall...or just a thing of the past

[not-enough-cruising]

11 hours ago, Catnip said:

And will you be just as afraid and angry if (when) a vaxx cruiser(s) gets covid on your cruise?

No, a positive case, in a vaccinated patient, on a majority vaccinated ship, will not be anything to worry about or interrupt a sailing for. This event would only require quarantine of the positive individual. In all reality, the chances of this happening are very very slim, due to the fact that a vaccinated person would almost never have a reason to need to be tested. 

[detroitautocruisers]

On 6/8/2021 at 11:12 AM, cruiserking said:

We are not afraid of cruising. We just don't want our 7-day Bahamas cruise to end after three days because unvaccinated people caught COVID and the ship had to return to port. 

 

Jonathan

what's the difference between a vax or unvax person you both can carry the virus!