So the states can mandate the rules?

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, crewsweeper said:

There is NO such thing as a vaccine "passport".  Nothing ever issued by the US Government.  Nothing ever issued by any other nation.

 

What is being talked about here is being required to show proof of vaccination.  The only proof, other than from your lips, is the card or paper you get from the facility where you get vaccinated that says you have a vaccination.  This may also be shared with your medical provider if you got a shot in another place. 

 

But here's nothing "legal/official" about these pieces of paper.  A government entity cannot compile a list of vaccinated people to share with the public.  These pieces of paper can be easily be counterfeited and indeed there are reports you can buy on off Craig Lists or eBay.

 

Some states are opting for the privacy of individuals versus a dictatorial mandate to show some form of proof to enter a business or attend an event.

 

Simply get he vaccine and then you won't have to worry about testing positive or catching it from someone.

 

 

 

They are being referred to as vaccine passports, which in this case, as you mentioned, is the CDC card for most states.  New York has what they call the Excelsior Pass developed by IBM but I think NY is the only state to have this.

[ReneeFLL]

24 minutes ago, Joseph2017China said:

My advice.....Please if you are afraid......and are still hiding......even with a vaccine......stay away, stay home......the rest of us will go on the cruise and you can wait another 2-3 years in hiding

 

 

15 minutes ago, Catnip said:

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!    👍👍

 

8 minutes ago, cruiserking said:

We are not afraid of cruising. We just don't want our 7-day Bahamas cruise to end after three days because unvaccinated people caught COVID and the ship had to return to port. 

 

Jonathan

They have been told this many, many times, but they just can’t seem to wrap their brain around the idea. I can only guess why?

[Wishing on a star]

On 6/6/2021 at 6:59 AM, Eddie Wilson said:

I under stand the CDC is developing a simple set of rules, where they have consulted Doctoral Calculus Mathematicians, the map of the NYC subway system, the flowchart of US Government cash flows, Nostradamus, the Oracle at Delphi, IRS lawyers, and the ghost of Future Christmas to create one simple final set of rules for the states and cruise lines to follow. Should only take them a few more weeks.....

Eddie

 

This has to be the funniest post yet on all of this madness and confusion!!!

Hahahaha!!!!

 

Sadly, the confusion gets worse every day.

We have the CDC which is mentioned, the State of Florida and other individual States - which now includes Texas, as well as all of the destination countries and ports.

 

Truly mind-bending!!!!

 

We have put a refundable deposit. (fully refundable until 60 days out) on a short cruise,  Because we wanted to get it on the books during a good promotion price.  Just in case.

I have less confidence and more and more doubt that this ship will sail.

 

Not to mention all of the possible onboard protocols, arguments and dust-ups between passengers of opposing opinions (like on the airlines), etc... etc...

Edited June 8, 2021 by Wishing on a star

[cruiserking]

52 minutes ago, ReneeFLL said:

 

 

They have been told this many, many times, but they just can’t seem to wrap their brain around the idea. I can only guess why?

Well aware. I have written the same response too. 

 

Jonathan 

[Colorado Babe]

1 hour ago, cruiserking said:

We are not afraid of cruising. We just don't want our 7-day Bahamas cruise to end after three days because unvaccinated people caught COVID and the ship had to return to port. 

 

Jonathan

Perhaps postpone for a bit until all the kinks are worked out. 

[mstove]

1 hour ago, Joseph2017China said:

Really?  Since when did you need a vaccine to get on an international flight?  I have been on two of them already, and there is no such rule.  Don't get confused with what a country wants the flight is going to.  Stop the false reporting.....vaccines are not required

 

Partially true, but if countries require vaccinations to enter, you could easily get to go home on the next flight.  Much like countries that require yellow fever (or other vaccines).  You get there, show proof of vaccination, or you get to go home on the next available flight (not at their cost, either).  This isn't new to Covid times, it just may end up including more countries than in the past - even if it isn't so far.   I wouldn't be surprised if part of being allowed to fly to some countries requires the airlines to be part of it.  If memory serves (always questionable 🙂 ) Air France checked to see if I had my yellow fever proof before I headed to west Africa years ago.  I don't recall whether they would have let me board without it, or if it was an actual requirement to get on the plane.  I do know we weren't getting through customs without it.  

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, ReneeFLL said:

 

 

They have been told this many, many times, but they just can’t seem to wrap their brain around the idea. I can only guess why?

This.

[Canadianmama3]

2 hours ago, Joseph2017China said:

Really?  Since when did you need a vaccine to get on an international flight?  I have been on two of them already, and there is no such rule.  Don't get confused with what a country wants the flight is going to.  Stop the false reporting.....vaccines are not required

 

Airlines often enforce entry requirements of the countries they are flying into.  For example people now have to provide proof of a negative covid test before flying back to Canada.   Airlines are responsible to enforce this will not allow people to board if they don’t have it.  
 

Airlines will start enforcing proof of vaccine once countries start requiring it.  And that will happen.  So these “vaccine passport” bans will either be ignored or will impact Americans ability to travel internationally.   

[Babr]

2 hours ago, Joseph2017China said:

My advice.....Please if you are afraid......and are still hiding......even with a vaccine......stay away, stay home......the rest of us will go on the cruise and you can wait another 2-3 years in hiding

 

Please stop using this as a way to end an exchange.  It does not have much meaning.
 

Have you considered this:  People who get the vaccine are not afraid of getting sick. The unvaccinated are no threat to them.

 

The concern is that the unvaccinated are a risk to each other. The idea is to prevent illness or spread whether on the ship, in port, or returning home. As we have seen recently in the golf world, people test negative until they don’t. Exposure and incubation can happen at any time.
 

Vaccinated people do not want the imposition of restrictions that could result whether anyone gets sick or not. And they certainly do not want the interruption of their trip if someone does get sick.
 

[Colorado Babe]

1 hour ago, ReneeFLL said:

 

 

They have been told this many, many times, but they just can’t seem to wrap their brain around the idea. I can only guess why?

LOL

[Canadianmama3]

1 minute ago, Babr said:

Please stop using this as a way to end an exchange.  It does not have much meaning.
 

Have you considered this:  People who get the vaccine are not afraid of getting sick. The unvaccinated are no threat to them.

 

The concern is that the unvaccinated are a risk to each other. The idea is to prevent illness or spread whether on the ship, in port, or returning home. As we have seen recently in the golf world, people test negative until they don’t. Exposure and incubation can happen at any time.
 

Vaccinated people do not want the imposition of restrictions that could result whether anyone gets sick or not. And they certainly do not want the interruption of their trip if someone does get sick.
 

Exactly.  Vaccinated cruises aren’t afraid of getting sick.  They are afraid of having their cruise ruined because of an outbreak among unvaccinated cruises.  And angry they will have to deal with restrictions they wouldn’t have to if everyone was vaccinated 

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

What airline is requiring you to upload your vax card and health visa?

That would be all airlines with service to countries that require vaccines to enter the arrival country.

[coffeebean]

5 minutes ago, Canadianmama3 said:

Airlines often enforce entry requirements of the countries they are flying into.  For example people now have to provide proof of a negative covid test before flying back to Canada.   Airlines are responsible to enforce this will not allow people to board if they don’t have it.  
 

Airlines will start enforcing proof of vaccine once countries start requiring it.  And that will happen.  So these “vaccine passport” bans will either be ignored or will impact Americans ability to travel internationally.   

Florida's law does have an exception for airlines. Not that I have read the entire law but someone did post that section of the law that gives airlines an exception. Why not give an exception for the cruise lines? I will never understand that reasoning. Seems Florida law is working AGAINST keeping passengers safe on cruise ships which have a reputation of being "floating petri dishes".

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, kearney said:

The cruise lines seem to be taking their time going to court.... look at Florida suing the CDC... when did they start that?... back in April.... even the injunction hasn't been decided yet... and it is nearly July. So I think that the cruise lines must be working through some options with the Gov. to avoid having to go to court... seems to me if they go that route..you can write off July and Aug ...at the very least... then we are in the height of hurricane season. 

Some thoughts 1) delay fines allowing cruises to test out vaccinated cruises for ..say 5 months 

2) allow cruises to offer incentive for those who present vaccination cards... perhaps discount on choice of beverage package or spa (provide enough options to cover most vaccinated people, or charge nonvaccinated for costs associated with periodic tests during the cruise... or

3) if there are any islands requiring vaccinated or negative tests results... ie Bahamas... get Florida to concede that the cruise lines will have to know who is vaccinated in order to allow docking there...

but what happens if vaccine cards are fake??? 4) put something in contract that if you contract covid on the ship the cruise line has the right to look at medical records to confirm vaccination and if not vaccinated... all costs for care, isolation, transportation home is paid for by the passenger...

I am not a lawyer and this may be obvious by my ideas... but there needs to be a breakthrough and soon. 

I agree with everything you said with one exception.....Medical records are not what the cruise lines need to acquire. They need to see Immunization records. Those are completely separate from medical records. Believe me, I acquired my immunization records from the State of Florida. That record includes all my immunizations, even as child when I was a resident of NY State. It does not include any medical records. Just wanted that to be clear to all those folks who insist if the cruise lines need proof of Covid vaccination, that DOES NOT include any medical records.

Edited June 8, 2021 by coffeebean

[cruiserking]

1 hour ago, Colorado Babe said:

Perhaps postpone for a bit until all the kinks are worked out. 

We're not cruising till February 2022 so I'm sure everything will be hunkydory by then. 

 

Jonathan

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, Joseph2017China said:

Really?  Since when did you need a vaccine to get on an international flight?  I have been on two of them already, and there is no such rule.  Don't get confused with what a country wants the flight is going to.  Stop the false reporting.....vaccines are not required

 

As an example......Africa requires a small pox vaccine. If you don't have that immunization record, you do not travel to Africa.

 

Since we are in the middle of a global pandemic with Covid, there is already discussion of countries requiring a Covid vaccine to enter their countries. It may not be happening as of today but, with all this talk of vaccine passports needed for International travel, it just may come to fruition. In fact, there just may already be countries that require Covid vaccines to enter.

[jrapps]

18 minutes ago, Canadianmama3 said:

Exactly.  Vaccinated cruises aren’t afraid of getting sick.  They are afraid of having their cruise ruined because of an outbreak among unvaccinated cruises.  And angry they will have to deal with restrictions they wouldn’t have to if everyone was vaccinated 

I am vaccinated. I am not worried about getting sick. I am also not too worried about an outbreak among the non-vaccinated. I guess it really depends on how many of them are onboard, and that may be part of the concern here. How do we know if the ship is 80% vaccinated, 70%, 60%?

 

Short term, I am worried for my son since he isn't' vaccinated, but he will be by the time our next Royal cruise sails. So really all I am concerned with at that point is the experience....if we will enjoy the cruise with limited hassle, no worries for me.

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, Joseph2017China said:

My advice.....Please if you are afraid......and are still hiding......even with a vaccine......stay away, stay home......the rest of us will go on the cruise and you can wait another 2-3 years in hiding

 

For the 100000000000th time........vaccinated people are not afraid for their health and safety, generally. I will speak for myself here and say that my mRNA vaccine offers me protection from Covid and I feel perfectly safe. I have no fear of Covid. I have been out and about among the un-vaxxed and without a mask too.

 

What I do not want to deal with is a cruise vacation that will be negatively impacted if there were a Covid outbreak on board because of un-vaxxed passengers. I also do not want to adhere to safety protocols that will be dictated by un-vaxxed passengers on board.

 

How many times do we vaccinated folks have to say that in response to that silly comment that you made? Maybe another thousand times will do it? Will it take that many times for you to understand the stance of vaccinated people? SMH!

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, Catnip said:

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!    👍👍

You can thumbs up all you want. You just do not get it.

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, crewsweeper said:

There is NO such thing as a vaccine "passport".  Nothing ever issued by the US Government.  Nothing ever issued by any other nation.

 

What is being talked about here is being required to show proof of vaccination.  The only proof, other than from your lips, is the card or paper you get from the facility where you get vaccinated that says you have a vaccination.  This may also be shared with your medical provider if you got a shot in another place. 

 

But here's nothing "legal/official" about these pieces of paper.  A government entity cannot compile a list of vaccinated people to share with the public.  These pieces of paper can be easily be counterfeited and indeed there are reports you can buy on off Craig Lists or eBay.

 

Some states are opting for the privacy of individuals versus a dictatorial mandate to show some form of proof to enter a business or attend an event.

 

Simply get he vaccine and then you won't have to worry about testing positive or catching it from someone.

 

 

The State of Florida issued my immunization record to me upon my request for my PCP to obtain it for me. That immunization record includes both of my Covid vaccine shots with the date and location that I received those shots. Does that count?

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, coffeebean said:

The State of Florida issued my immunization record to me upon my request for my PCP to obtain it for me. That immunization record includes both of my Covid vaccine shots with the date and location that I received those shots. Does that count?

 

That's what DeSantis calls a vaccine passport -- anything that shows proof you have received the vaccine -- for us in Florida it is the CDC card or vaccine records. 

[harkinmr]

9 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

How many times do we vaccinated folks have to say that in response to that silly comment that you made? Maybe another thousand times will do it? Will it take that many times for you to understand the stance of vaccinated people? SMH!

Yes.  Clearly.

[ArthurUSCG]

2 hours ago, crewsweeper said:

There is NO such thing as a vaccine "passport".  Nothing ever issued by the US Government.  Nothing ever issued by any other nation.

 

What is being talked about here is being required to show proof of vaccination.  The only proof, other than from your lips, is the card or paper you get from the facility where you get vaccinated that says you have a vaccination.  This may also be shared with your medical provider if you got a shot in another place. 

 

But here's nothing "legal/official" about these pieces of paper.  A government entity cannot compile a list of vaccinated people to share with the public.  These pieces of paper can be easily be counterfeited and indeed there are reports you can buy on off Craig Lists or eBay.

 

Some states are opting for the privacy of individuals versus a dictatorial mandate to show some form of proof to enter a business or attend an event.

 

Simply get he vaccine and then you won't have to worry about testing positive or catching it from someone.

 

 

JFC on a pogo stick.

 

Most states have a central medical agency/department that has the records. That is how they are electronically being transmitted so the states can be reimbursed from the federal government for administering the vaccine. This is also how your primary care provider will eventually get the record of you receiving the vaccine. I say eventually because most states are having problems processing the massive increase in work loads compared to normal.

So, eventually there will be 54 or 55 data bases (50 states + territories) that would contain your vaccine status.

[chefchick]

3 hours ago, Joseph2017China said:

My advice.....Please if you are afraid......and are still hiding......even with a vaccine......stay away, stay home......the rest of us will go on the cruise and you can wait another 2-3 years in hiding

 

Okay, let me counter your ridiculous statement with one of my own...My advice....if you choose to not get a vaccination that you are eligible for, please stay off cruise ships for the time being...my vacation does not need to be ruined or stopped short just because you are afraid of needles. 🙄

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, cruiserking said:

Well aware. I have written the same response too. 

 

Jonathan 

Me three.