Immigration when transiting in Brooklyn

[SSCAF001]

I will spend 85 days in the US before boarding QM2 in November 2022 in Brooklyn for a loop in the Caribbean. Then back to Brooklyn just a few hours before continuing aboard QM2 to Southampton. 
knowing that I will travel using the Visa Waiver Program with ESTA, and knowing that I will be allowed 90 days in the US do you know what will happen as far as immigration is concerned when arriving in Brooklyn from the Caribbean? Do I have to go through immigration? Can I remain in the ship without clearing the US immigration? If going through immigration is there a risk that I will face issue with the immigration officer because my length of stay in the US+Caribbean will be longer than 90 days? Thanks for your help on this matter. 

[TheOldBear]

I can't answer about the specific timing issue - but the Brooklyn turn around days require the ship to be 'zeroed out' with all passengers [and most crew] off, before boarding can commence.

In transit passengers can leave for the day shortly after arrival [along with the self-disembark passengers] or wait onboard until you need to wait on shore for boarding to commence.

You will need to have your documents checked between the baggage hall and the boarding lounge.

[ace2542]

4 hours ago, SSCAF001 said:

I will spend 85 days in the US before boarding QM2 in November 2022 in Brooklyn for a loop in the Caribbean. Then back to Brooklyn just a few hours before continuing aboard QM2 to Southampton. 
knowing that I will travel using the Visa Waiver Program with ESTA, and knowing that I will be allowed 90 days in the US do you know what will happen as far as immigration is concerned when arriving in Brooklyn from the Caribbean? Do I have to go through immigration? Can I remain in the ship without clearing the US immigration? If going through immigration is there a risk that I will face issue with the immigration officer because my length of stay in the US+Caribbean will be longer than 90 days? Thanks for your help on this matter. 

You cannot remain onboard. If your plans are more than 90 days then you will have overstayed your Visa Waiver admission and will be likely be refused entry and not allowed to board QM2 to sail to UK. With Carribean plans you might be still be in the area of U.S immigration control which extends far from the U.S covers Canada, Mexico and Carribean to some extent when the 90 days passes meaning you may be in violation. If that happens you will be likely sent back to Switzerland by plane I think.  A process which would involve transit by van under guard possibly in handcuffs. That is what those vans at the terminal are for. You may even be  deported and banned for TEN YEARS though I am uncertain about that. REFUSED ENTRY and DEPORTATION are different things.

Edited September 10, 2021 by ace2542

[SSCAF001]

Thanks to both of you. This is what I was afraid of : being banned entering the USA just for a few hours on a ship on the port of New York even if I do not want to go ashore. I will have to change my plans!

[ace2542]

1 hour ago, SSCAF001 said:

Thanks to both of you. This is what I was afraid of : being banned entering the USA just for a few hours on a ship on the port of New York even if I do not want to go ashore. I will have to change my plans!

Yeah shave a few days off the 85 keep it to 88 days before you board QM2 for UK.

[SSCAF001]

6 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Yeah shave a few days off the 85 keep it to 88 days before you board QM2 for UK.

Thanks. What is counterintuitive is to discover that the days spent on a ship in the Caribbean are taken into account to assess the 90-day mark in the USA. I thought that when leaving the US after 85 days I would be ok. And that returning to NYC after 2 weeks on the Caribbean I would have no issue to explain the immigration officier that I enter the US only for a few hours leaving the same day for Southampton. From your explanations I understand that it is not as easy as that. Pity!

[exlondoner]

Wouldn't it be prudent to check with the embassy?

[Victoria2]

59 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Wouldn't it be prudent to check with the embassy?

I agree. US immigration does not have jurisdiction over the whole of the Caribbean. SSCA might find he can squeeze in his trip within the 90 day visa allowance but unless he finds out from authorities who know rather than the speculation from those who , speculate, he won’t have a definitive answer.

[ace2542]

2 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

I agree. US immigration does not have jurisdiction over the whole of the Caribbean. SSCA might find he can squeeze in his trip within the 90 day visa allowance but unless he finds out from authorities who know rather than the speculation from those who , speculate, he won’t have a definitive answer.

I have heard that to leave the U.S you have to travel pretty far. But for most people that doesn't really matter because you are not near the end of your 90 day admission. But for a person on the 90 day limit or over the 90 day limit then we are getting into the area of immigration  law exam questions.

 

Probably better just to trim down the trip. Or maybe try for the U.S tourist visa which would give 6 month admission I think?

[ace2542]

4 hours ago, SSCAF001 said:

Thanks. What is counterintuitive is to discover that the days spent on a ship in the Caribbean are taken into account to assess the 90-day mark in the USA. I thought that when leaving the US after 85 days I would be ok. And that returning to NYC after 2 weeks on the Caribbean I would have no issue to explain the immigration officier that I enter the US only for a few hours leaving the same day for Southampton. From your explanations I understand that it is not as easy as that. Pity!

Why not try for the B2  tourist visa which gives 6 month admission to USA or so I believe. You might be able to get one if you explain your trip.

[Victoria2]

8 hours ago, ace2542 said:

I have heard that to leave the U.S you have to travel pretty far. But for most people that doesn't really matter because you are not near the end of your 90 day admission. But for a person on the 90 day limit or over the 90 day limit then we are getting into the area of immigration  law exam questions.

 

Probably better just to trim down the trip. Or maybe try for the U.S tourist visa which would give 6 month admission I think?

The US has no dominion over most of the countries on the Nov. Caribbean cruise.

 

The question as to whether the cruise as a whole will have any detrimental effect on a visa nearing the end of it's validity is a question I can't answer without speculating and unless you are a US Immigration expert, neither can you.

 

'Probably' [speculating] certainly wouldn't cut it for me and if I were SSCFA, I wouldn't be taking definitive advice  from anyone on a cruise forum. Read yes, but then take it up with the DHS, possibly via a US Embassy.

[ace2542]

1 hour ago, Victoria2 said:

The US has no dominion over most of the countries on the Nov. Caribbean cruise.

 

The question as to whether the cruise as a whole will have any detrimental effect on a visa nearing the end of it's validity is a question I can't answer without speculating and unless you are a US Immigration expert, neither can you.

 

'Probably' [speculating] certainly wouldn't cut it for me and if I were SSCFA, I wouldn't be taking definitive advice  from anyone on a cruise forum. Read yes, but then take it up with the DHS, possibly via a US Embassy.

He can probably get a B2 tourist which allows 6 month admission to the U.S. If he approached is retiring age you can get them easily despite being able to use the VWP. If you are younger they don't tend to grant them but older people do get them granted. Of course in this current climate if he can get it in time is another question.

 

Perhaps instead of a cruise forum he can take himself across to one of the immigration or expat forums for advice. Their members would know all this stuff a lot better perhaps.

Edited September 11, 2021 by ace2542

[TouchstoneFeste]

It seems to me that the issue of the dates is pretty clear: You're issued a visa which says you're allowed to be in the US between (for example) January 1 until April 1 (90 days). Not "spend 90 days, on and off, in the US over the next couple years". (Not trying to be flippant; I hope you see what I mean.) The only variable is whether or not exiting the ship for a few hours constitutes "being in the United States", and I wouldn't risk it without official confirmation one way or the other.

 

Best to shoot for the longer visa or shave some time off the front of the trip. (Best of all - consult your embassy.)

[Host Hattie]

1 hour ago, TouchstoneFeste said:

It seems to me that the issue of the dates is pretty clear: You're issued a visa which says you're allowed to be in the US between (for example) January 1 until April 1 (90 days). Not "spend 90 days, on and off, in the US over the next couple years

It's much more like your second example, an ESTA is valid for multiple entries over a 2 year period up to a maximum of 90 days per visit.

 

OP I would think your scenario would count as 2 separate visits and should be fine but I agree with other posters, check don't really on our best guesses.

[Essiesmom]

17 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

It's much more like your second example, an ESTA is valid for multiple entries over a 2 year period up to a maximum of 90 days per visit.

 

OP I would think your scenario would count as 2 separate visits and should be fine but I agree with other posters, check don't really on our best guesses.

But the problem is that they don’t have anyone at embarkation in Brooklyn to clock you out of the US .  You only see them when getting off the ship at the end. EM

[SSCAF001]

13 hours ago, ace2542 said:

Why not try for the B2  tourist visa which gives 6 month admission to USA or so I believe. You might be able to get one if you explain your trip.

Thanks for the idea. The point is that should I apply for a B2 visa and be denied, I would could be banned from entering the USA for years. And it is never possible to know why one’s have been denied a visa. I am in the mid fifty’s, I have retired from work and have enough financial resources to sustain a pretty nice way of living till the end of my life. So I guess I should get the visa, but who knows? Difficult to take such a risk.  It’s pity because obviously the B2 visa is the answer to my question!

[ace2542]

56 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

It's much more like your second example, an ESTA is valid for multiple entries over a 2 year period up to a maximum of 90 days per visit

But the so called rule of thumb is to spend as much time outside of the U.S as you spend inside the U.S.  Perhaps it would be better for him simply to trim has plans back. Though I think he has a good shot at a B2 he shouldn't take my opinion as gospel.

[Victoria2]

29 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

But the problem is that they don’t have anyone at embarkation in Brooklyn to clock you out of the US .  You only see them when getting off the ship at the end. EM

Hattie is correct as an ESTA officially allows unlimited trips within the 2 yrs but each limited to 90 day duration however, I see your point and if the islands visited in the Caribbean don't count as exiting the US even though they're not actually within the immediate scope of an ESTA, then the traveller might be stuffed.

 

So first of all, SSCFA  needs to find out if visiting the non US Caribbean  islands counts as exiting the US by contacting a US embassy and if they don't and he/she doesn't want to risk a B2 visa, shorten the trip as Ace suggested. I suppose he/she could  buy a cheap day return to a neighboring country which doesn't have reciprocal  immigration status with the US but  might have a bit of explaining to do why it was only an away day.

[ace2542]

15 minutes ago, SSCAF001 said:

Thanks for the idea. The point is that should I apply for a B2 visa and be denied, I would could be banned from entering the USA for years. And it is never possible to know why one’s have been denied a visa. I am in the mid fifty’s, I have retired from work and have enough financial resources to sustain a pretty nice way of living till the end of my life. So I guess I should get the visa, but who knows? Difficult to take such a risk.  It’s pity because obviously the B2 visa is the answer to my question!

I think if you showed them your travel plans in detail you have a pretty good shot but that is just my opinion. And you are correct that if you where to be denied the B2. The ESTA comes back denied for a while I think.

[ace2542]

6 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

Hattie is correct as an ESTA officially allows unlimited trips within the 2 yrs but each limited to 90 day duration however, I see your point and if the islands visited in the Caribbean don't count as exiting the US even though they're not actually within the immediate scope of an ESTA, then the traveller might be stuffed.

 

So first of all, SSCFA  needs to find out if visiting the non US Caribbean  islands counts as exiting the US by contacting a US embassy and if they don't and he/she doesn't want to risk a B2 visa, shorten the trip as Ace suggested. I suppose he/she could  buy a cheap day return to a neighboring country which doesn't have reciprocal  immigration status with the US but  might have a bit of explaining to do why it was only an away day.

Maybe Cunard would know a bit about this immigration issue. Or perhaps he could get a free phone consultation with a U.S immigration law firm. Some do offer free consultations? I have done a google search and there are a number of expat forums whose members seem quite well up on U.S immigration. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by ace2542

[Victoria2]

Just now, ace2542 said:

Maybe Cunard would know a bit about this immigration issue. Or perhaps he could get a free phone consultation with a U.S immigration law firm. Some do offer free consultations? I have done a google search and there are a number of expat forum whose members seem quite well up on U.S immigration.

Ace. You can ask away to anyone on a forum, as on here but at the end of the day, no one knows whether those answering have definitive knowledge or like you, are speculating.

 

To get official ruling on anything, it's a good idea to go to the source of the rulings and in this case, it's the DHS probably via an embassy.

[ace2542]

5 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

Ace. You can ask away to anyone on a forum, as on here but at the end of the day, no one knows whether those answering have definitive knowledge or like you, are speculating.

 

To get official ruling on anything, it's a good idea to go to the source of the rulings and in this case, it's the DHS probably via an embassy.

I just found a law firm in london by typing on google.co.uk "U.S immigration law firm london free consultation". One of the firms on the list seems to offer at least a free chat to initially discuss the situation before booking a full consultation. So he might be able to at least have a chat with them.

 

He could try and telephone the embassy as well.

[ace2542]

42 minutes ago, SSCAF001 said:

Thanks for the idea. The point is that should I apply for a B2 visa and be denied, I would could be banned from entering the USA for years. And it is never possible to know why one’s have been denied a visa. I am in the mid fifty’s, I have retired from work and have enough financial resources to sustain a pretty nice way of living till the end of my life. So I guess I should get the visa, but who knows? Difficult to take such a risk.  It’s pity because obviously the B2 visa is the answer to my question!

If you go on google.co.uk and type in U.S immigration law firm london free consultation. That exact phrase. You will find at least 2 U.S immigration law firms in London that might at least have a quick chat with you over the phone and give you their thoughts on your travel plans.

[TouchstoneFeste]

7 hours ago, Host Hattie said:

It's much more like your second example, an ESTA is valid for multiple entries over a 2 year period up to a maximum of 90 days per visit.

 

OP I would think your scenario would count as 2 separate visits and should be fine but I agree with other posters, check don't really on our best guesses.

Sorry about that, then. Clueless :) and thanks for the correction.

[SSCAF001]

Thank you so much for all your replies and comments. I will first contact the US embassy in Bern to see whether they accept to consider my question. Again, many thanks. Very much appreciated!