The end of Set (Traditional Dining) on Princess?

[Papa Yoda]

36 minutes ago, rdsqrl said:

I have Club Class on my upcoming (2 weeks and 2 days; not that I'm counting!) cruise, and I gather that's more like AD than TD anyway, so it is what it is.  But after this, I'm very hesitant about future cruises.  Sailing solo, having the same dinner companions each night was important to me.  I absolute hated the times I had to do Anytime -- the same boring starter conversations every single night with a rotating group of people who never became anything more than strangers -- it was nightmarish.  If Princess can't figure out a way to recreate the TD experience of same cohort at the same table for those of us who want it, I may have to reconsider my loyalty and jump ship to Cunard or HAL.  Meanwhile, for this cruise, I'm just reconciling myself to 16 nights of dinner with just me and my Kindle.  At least I can order two appetizers and not have to worry about judgey looks!

 

11 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

Maybe you will find some companions in CC who want similar.  No reason you couldn't arrange to come at same time and let CC in-charge know what you want.  Princess is often quite accommodating on the ships.  I wish often they had some of the ship people running HQ office.

 

Also maybe join the roll call for your cruise - likely some folks with CC who you can bond with for dinner.

[trbarton]

9 hours ago, Smokeyham said:

Hello,

 

I've been watching some Gary Bembridge videos and also reading on CruiseCritic about the Dining My Way program.   

 

Am I understanding correctly that, apart from Suite or Club Class guests, there will no longer be set/traditional dining where you can choose the time (early or late seating) and always be at the same assigned table with the same wait staff?  I did look at the Princess website (https://www.princess.com/ships-and-experience/food-and-dining/dine-my-way/) which does mention that you can have the same waitstaff and that "Previous dining selections (including traditional dining) will be honored."  

I understand that that traditional dining has become less popular over the years as most prefer the flexibility to choose their dining times and venues.   I do wonder how this will impact solo cruisers who may enjoy the opportunity to meet, and get to know, other cruisers through a shared series of dinners.

 

Thanks for any thoughts, especially if you have recently experienced the Dine My Way program.
 

I was on the 1st cruise of the Ruby Princess, October 31, & I never sat at the same table/waitstaff twice. I’m on another cruise on the Ruby, December 17, & I will make a fuss if I can’t get the same table/waitstaff each night. I complained to more than one person with no results. 
 

Interesting that on other ships this wasn’t a problem/issue. 
 

Tom😀

[trbarton]

6 hours ago, howielovescruisin said:

Just off the Emerald a few weeks ago. When you make your dining reservations on the APP it will ask if you want a private table or a shared table.

I asked for 5 pm & a shared table & each night I was at a different table with different people. Hopefully going single didn’t make a difference. 
 

Tom😀

[caribill]

5 hours ago, rdsqrl said:

having the same dinner companions each night was important to me.  I absolute hated the times I had to do Anytime -- the same boring starter conversations every single night with a rotating group of people who never became anything more than strangers -- it was nightmarish.

 

And to me that is the reason we used Traditional (shared) dining as we would have the same other companions every evening. We have made some great friends dining this way.

 

Having the same table (of unknown size in advance) with the same staff is only part of the Traditional experience. Having the same other dining companions each night is an important feature of Traditional dining.

[caribill]

7 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Princess has documented that TD Early and Late times fit DMW offerings at 5:00, 5:20, 5:40, 7:00, 7:20, 7:40.  It was all about aligning with main evening entertainment.  

 

They may have said that, but it cannot be true, not with a 40 minute spread between the earliest suggested and the latest suggested times. Only one of those times would be best for making the show in the Princess Theater. The other times could mean too much time between eating and the show or rushing through dinner to make the show.

 

The benefit of the old method of requesting early or late dining meant that when the actual traditional dining times were set up, they aligned with the exact times of the shows. And these times can change from one voyage to the next.

 

Of course the timing of the shows is not known months (years) ahead of time when you can select a dining time. You need to make a guess and, if wrong, the time you really need might not be available once you board the ship.

[caribill]

7 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Folks have reported sharing tables on various Live From reports.

 

But I have not seen one post that says they were at a shared table every evening with the same other people who were not part of their traveling group.

[MarkBearSF]

7 hours ago, rdsqrl said:

 I absolute hated the times I had to do Anytime -- the same boring starter conversations every single night with a rotating group of people who never became anything more than strangers -- it was nightmarish.  If Princess can't figure out a way to recreate the TD experience of same cohort at the same table for those of us who want it, I may have to reconsider my loyalty and jump ship to Cunard or HAL

I don't know about HAL, but reports from Cunard are that they have TD for first seating, but after that (7:30 or so?) it's all flexible dining, with no TD second seating. (Supposedly they request you make reservations for your preferred time, but in actuality, it meant people lining-up when they wanted to go in)

Edited December 6, 2021 by MarkBearSF

[Steelers36]

5 hours ago, caribill said:

 

They may have said that, but it cannot be true, not with a 40 minute spread between the earliest suggested and the latest suggested times. Only one of those times would be best for making the show in the Princess Theater. The other times could mean too much time between eating and the show or rushing through dinner to make the show.

 

The benefit of the old method of requesting early or late dining meant that when the actual traditional dining times were set up, they aligned with the exact times of the shows. And these times can change from one voyage to the next.

 

Of course the timing of the shows is not known months (years) ahead of time when you can select a dining time. You need to make a guess and, if wrong, the time you really need might not be available once you board the ship.

I did realize when writing my post that if they do not coordinate the entertainment, it means nothing.  Perhaps all those times meant was for the initial data conversion into DMW, this is where they placed bookings that had indicated Early or Late TD.  I do not really know, but it would help folks who want to book a consistent dining time for TD when the main entertainment times are.  It's one thing for an experienced guest to have a good idea, but a new customer would not without research. 

 

I don't see any reason why they cannot settle on showtimes with a 15 minutes range max and then folks can decide based on whether they like to dine slow or fast when to book.  I never really saw ETD and LTD differ more than 15 mins between ships/voyages (respecting both the old times and when they changed both to earlier times).

[Steelers36]

5 hours ago, caribill said:

 

But I have not seen one post that says they were at a shared table every evening with the same other people who were not part of their traveling group.

I cannot recall exactly, but it certainly was not a plethora of them.  I am quite sure it is something that would have to have been setup by request.  As I have said, I have zero confidence the System is doing it.

[john watson]

10 hours ago, trbarton said:

I asked for 5 pm & a shared table & each night I was at a different table with different people. Hopefully going single didn’t make a difference. 
 

Tom😀

 

I think the problematic issue with your 5pm shared table request is that it is a very early time.  I think many couples go this early to get a table for 2 alone. To mix more I think a peak or semi-peak dining time might help you as the queue needs sorting out which might be done at the entrance. Another pragmatic issue is that they seat people immediately they arrive more or less so parties need to arrive together in most cases. Getting the same table should be more likely at 5pm as you do not have random bookings sometime occupying "your" table.

 

Overall I am pleased with the system despite being a fan of first sitting as we can chose the same restaurant, same time, a shared table at a 20 minute timing with service speed being requested and proximity to a widow 😉 eh Tom?

[caribill]

4 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

 

I don't see any reason why they cannot settle on showtimes with a 15 minutes range max and then folks can decide based on whether they like to dine slow or fast when to book.  I never really saw ETD and LTD differ more than 15 mins between ships/voyages (respecting both the old times and when they changed both to earlier times).

 

Before DMW, the traditional dining times determined the scheduling of the shows. If the traditional dining times changed, then the show times (and other activities such as the Captain's welcome speech, Captain Circle party, trivia, etc.) changed to accommodate the new traditional dining times.  In other words, show times did not determine when TD times were, TD times determined the show times.

 

I was on one B2B when the ETD and LTD changed by 30 minutes between the voyages. (Show times and other activities also changed by 30 minutes.)

 

 

[Cruise Raider]

13 hours ago, trbarton said:

I was on the 1st cruise of the Ruby Princess, October 31, & I never sat at the same table/waitstaff twice. I’m on another cruise on the Ruby, December 17, & I will make a fuss if I can’t get the same table/waitstaff each night. I complained to more than one person with no results. 
 

Interesting that on other ships this wasn’t a problem/issue. 
 

Tom😀

 

Tom, I was on the Ruby just a couple of weeks back.  I spoke with the head waiter so he'd know we loved our wait team and would prefer to get the same team every night.  I think on the last night, he actually arranged to switch out one of the tables with another wait team so we could have our original team.  Such a kindness that he arranged that for us after we showed him gratitude the previous evenings.  While that is not always possible, I do think they try hard to give the guests what they prefer.  We didn't have to make a fuss just a polite conversation at the end of the first evening.  

[Cruise Raider]

11 hours ago, caribill said:

 

But I have not seen one post that says they were at a shared table every evening with the same other people who were not part of their traveling group.

 

 

You are correct!  Unless people that you don't know are willing to share their booking number with you to schedule it in your app, or at least agree to meet at a specified time to be seated at the same table with you every night, it highly unlikely that you will be seated with the same dining companions throughout the cruise.  

I think it started out originally that they didn't want anyone outside your group to share tables ... it certainly wasn't an option on the app for the first sailing out of the US in July.  They only had the option to link someone else's booking number in your app when making your reservation.  By the next time we cruised, they added the shared table option onto the app.  

We ate in club class on one of the cruises since the restart and we were asked if we were willing to share.  While we won't normally say yes, I could see they were extremely busy and seated us with two ladies that had already started their dinner.  Well, I'm not a fan of that at all.  Then, once we started our dinner, they seated another couple at our table.  That whole process made me go right back to reserving a private table.   It took us so long to finish our dinner that we ended up missing both the shows we had bookmarked to attend.  

[john watson]

I cant see how sharing a table with the same people you do not know would work as a regular thing. I mean you cant really ask them without it seeming a bit weird. How would you know that the same people you don't know are going to attend the same restaurant at the same time as last night?  They might mix it up and dine elsewhere or at a different time without telling you.  Why would they think they needed to tell you anyway. Conversely if the wait staff seated you, how long do you wait for people you have no idea are coming?

 

Lol John

[Roberto256]

19 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Folks have reported sharing tables on various Live From reports.

 

Something that would concern me...

 

There was a recent grand princess cruise which was reported to have fewer than 200 guests.

 

If you request to share a large table, and are seated...

 

You might wait hours for the table to fill and service to start...

 

This could easily precipitate a butter (and roll) crisis!

[Cruise Raider]

3 minutes ago, john watson said:

I cant see how sharing a table with the same people you do not know would work as a regular thing. I mean you cant really ask them without it seeming a bit weird. How would you know that the same people you don't know are going to attend the same restaurant at the same time as last night?  They might mix it up and dine elsewhere or at a different time without telling you.  Why would they think they needed to tell you anyway. Conversely if the wait staff seated you, how long do you wait for people you have no idea are coming?

 

Lol John

 

The only times it worked for us is when all the guests at the table got along so well the first night that someone asked if we all wanted to make it a regular seating through the remainder of the cruise.  We made arrangements with the hostess and it was done.  

[john watson]

3 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

 

The only times it worked for us is when all the guests at the table got along so well the first night that someone asked if we all wanted to make it a regular seating through the remainder of the cruise.  We made arrangements with the hostess and it was done.  

 

I can see how a general consensus might come about.  It is just asking people "do you want to dine with me/us every day?" seems a bit awkward.  Alternatively you could log each other as shipmates and track each others movement about the ship on the app.

 

Regards John

[Cruise Raider]

7 minutes ago, john watson said:

 

I can see how a general consensus might come about.  It is just asking people "do you want to dine with me/us every day?" seems a bit awkward.  Alternatively you could log each other as shipmates and track each others movement about the ship on the app.

 

Regards John

 

In the both times we did this, we were at a table of 8.  Through all the good conversation and laughter, someone just spoke up and said, "does everyone want to get this same table with the same group every evening?".  Everyone agreed.  Every night, we would play with the seat placement so we got to a chance to get to know everyone equally.  Both were fun groups!  

The biggest reason we prefer to eat on at a private table now is after we've gotten sick from one of our seat mates, or they bring up the big taboo subjects of religion or politics, or someone who is obnoxiously drunk, or there is way too much perfume applied, etc ... the list goes on but, you get it.  Plus, it just takes so much longer to get through dinner with a huge group.  We try to see at least a couple of performances after dinner each night ... sometimes, they get missed.  

[Kmkub]

It seems to me that it should be pretty easy to offer an option: Same companions every night, in the app.

 

Then, when you have eight people sign up for that option, for the same time, BAM, you have a table.

 

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

We, personally, have difficulty sharing a table. The meal takes way too long. If we only want dinner, we're sitting through an appetizer course, a salad course, etc., before getting our food.

 

I recall one dinner, and this was with family; half of us got an appetizer and half of us a salad. Half were waiting while the other half ate. We asked why we couldn't have our salad and appetizer at the same time, and apparently, it just isn't done. At the same dinner, a couple of us wanted a repeat of an appetizer, instead of dessert. Same issue; those of us that wanted the dessert had to wait until the others finished their personal dessert-tizer choice. We found the entire process odd, but I guess asking for a quicker meal just messes up their flow with the kitchen.

 

So, we get a private table, because we usually only get one or two courses, and sometimes a dessert to share, but not often.

[trbarton]

In the past, since I want to be able to get a seat in the theatre for the 1st show, I would simply tell the waiter that I want to order now. 
 

I can see the various points about what can happen with the other people at your table. I guess I’m lucky because I’ve only been on one cruise where I asked to be moved, that was the 50th Anniversary Cruise of Princess Cruises, & I was accommodated. All of my table mates have been great. 
 

Tom😀

[CalLuvsCrusingToo]

Pre-covid, we had no prob sharing large table with strangers & visiting.

 

In the midst of covid, we prefer private table, away from people, best we can.

 

Theres a big difference currently.

 

[Steelers36]

11 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Before DMW, the traditional dining times determined the scheduling of the shows. If the traditional dining times changed, then the show times (and other activities such as the Captain's welcome speech, Captain Circle party, trivia, etc.) changed to accommodate the new traditional dining times.  In other words, show times did not determine when TD times were, TD times determined the show times.

 

I was on one B2B when the ETD and LTD changed by 30 minutes between the voyages. (Show times and other activities also changed by 30 minutes.)

 

 

I get it, but could be a chicken and egg thing as well.  Perhaps the ED and MD got together to decide what it ought to be.  That said, I agree it becomes a challenge going forward.  One may think booking appropriate dining times for full voyage based on past experience and then get surprised on board.

 

Perhaps Princess is going to frustrate TD'ers until they/we throw in the towel.

[Steelers36]

10 hours ago, Cruise Raider said:

 

 

You are correct!  Unless people that you don't know are willing to share their booking number with you to schedule it in your app, or at least agree to meet at a specified time to be seated at the same table with you every night, it highly unlikely that you will be seated with the same dining companions throughout the cruise.  

I think it started out originally that they didn't want anyone outside your group to share tables ... it certainly wasn't an option on the app for the first sailing out of the US in July.  They only had the option to link someone else's booking number in your app when making your reservation.  By the next time we cruised, they added the shared table option onto the app.  

We ate in club class on one of the cruises since the restart and we were asked if we were willing to share.  While we won't normally say yes, I could see they were extremely busy and seated us with two ladies that had already started their dinner.  Well, I'm not a fan of that at all.  Then, once we started our dinner, they seated another couple at our table.  That whole process made me go right back to reserving a private table.   It took us so long to finish our dinner that we ended up missing both the shows we had bookmarked to attend.  

I could reply this to many posts here after being off the board for all day. 

 

This stupid system could be fixed if they continued to send TD requests to the ship to make up the tables.  Makes me wonder what the people on "the team" at HQ are thinking when they make up sharing tables.  This was something the MDR mgmt could do for each voyage.  I cannot say how much time it took, or whether difficult or not.  But I do know that DMW is incapable of doing it on a real-time basis.  So, someone is taking that input data and somehow making up tables and it seems randomly assigning couples to tables and putting the same group together each night. 

 

Why did they take this away from the experts on the ship?

 

DMW Flowchart:

PRE-CRUISE

1. Setup/Define Dining Party.  Default is guests registered in the cabin associated with the booking.

2. Do you want Anytime Dining or Traditional Dining?

 

If the guest selects Anytime Dining, then they are directed into DMW steps we see now - except they should add a table size choice.  

DMW allocates table space from a subset of the full MDR inventory - just like it used to be.

(I might even suggest that this path would not offer booking same time for full voyage and require individual night bookings).

 

If guest selects TD, then the system collects Early or Late preference, collects Private or Shared, and if Shared, preferred table size.  All of the data is dated and sent to DOROs on the ships to setup tables in the designated TD space (just like before).

 

DURING CRUISE

Any unallocated TD table space is opened up for DMW booking as Anytime/Demand booking. 

In addition, whenever a TD guest cancels an evening or books Specialty in lieu, their seats are open in DMW for booking by someone else.

The DORO is again available on DAY 1 for any special requests or changes.  

After this session and final adjustments to TD seating, the balance of any reserved space to accommodate TD is released into the AT pool in DMW app.

 

[caribill]

1 hour ago, Steelers36 said:

 

 

This stupid system could be fixed if they continued to send TD requests to the ship to make up the tables.  Makes me wonder what the people on "the team" at HQ are thinking when they make up sharing tables.  This was something the MDR mgmt could do for each voyage.  I cannot say how much time it took, or whether difficult or not.  But I do know that DMW is incapable of doing it on a real-time basis.  So, someone is taking that input data and somehow making up tables and it seems randomly assigning couples to tables and putting the same group together each night. 

 

Why did they take this away from the experts on the ship?

 

 

A Princess rep said that if I specified the same dining time in the same restaurant for the entire cruise and others said the same thing the others could be assigned to the same table I had, thus reproducing traditional dining.

 

However, I do not believe what I was told as I do not think the system is designed to do this starting with not being able to specify table size. For me a table of 8 is too large to get efficient and timely service. I prefer a table of six.

 

Second, if it is to be like traditional, it would be more likely to find people who wanted to share at the same time evening evening if the computer (or dining room management) selected the dining room, not me.

[Steelers36]

5 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

A Princess rep said that if I specified the same dining time in the same restaurant for the entire cruise and others said the same thing the others could be assigned to the same table I had, thus reproducing traditional dining.

 

However, I do not believe what I was told as I do not think the system is designed to do this starting with not being able to specify table size. For me a table of 8 is too large to get efficient and timely service. I prefer a table of six.

 

Second, if it is to be like traditional, it would be more likely to find people who wanted to share at the same time evening evening if the computer (or dining room management) selected the dining room, not me.

You got it, Pontiac!