CDC adjusts warnings

[Guppy99]

2 minutes ago, runningtide said:

My two cents from a different perspective. Most people on this forum expressing their opinions may have an underlying issue. They simply miss the fun of planning and dreaming of their next cruise. Now sadly, it’s more of a logistic exercise, that in truth really takes a lot of the enjoyment out of cruising. Last September , while delta had ramped up, my Linda and I were about a month away from a cruise, sitting  at a waterside bar in Annapolis, talking about sudden changes again  of testing requirements, port restrictions, mask mandates, etc., and Linda looked at me and said, this isn’t fun anymore.

We cancelled the trip the next day. 

We both hope that we can soon get back to the “fun” reasons we all love cruising. 
 

All the best…….See you on the next tack !

My next cruise is Jul3, and every night we talk about how we can't wait.  It's a bit too early to consider packing....and I personally don't mind jumping through some hoops to make it happen. Just a logistical puzzle to solve.

[runningtide]

Just now, Guppy99 said:

My next cruise is Jul3, and every night we talk about how we can't wait.  It's a bit too early to consider packing....and I personally don't mind jumping through some hoops to make it happen. Just a logistical puzzle to solve.

BTW… our next cruise is May 6th. Like you, we will jump through the hoops, slightly more manageable than last summer. Just hoping the old days may come back again .

[Guppy99]

4 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Just curious, have you been on a cruise yet since it started back up in June?

Twice.  In January (after being fully vaccinated and receiving a booster 6 weeks prior) and never getting off the ship, I contracted a breakthrough infection. I was terribly sick for over 6 weeks and still have lingering effects. 

[TeeRick]

23 hours ago, WonderMan3 said:

I think the problem is what some of us view as “living with it”, which is accepting that there may be periods of time when we have to revert to wearing masks or taking tests or showing proof of vaccination, (I think you and I would be on the same page there) is not the same as others who basically have viewed this virus as being done regardless of whether new variants emerge or we see another surge with massive amounts of people getting sick again. Of course we seem to be a country that lives in two different realities for pretty much everything nowadays so why not a viral pandemic too…sigh…

For us cruising folk, let's think about the upcoming endemic mode- maybe we are in it already in some parts of the country and world.  Debatable? 

 

In the endemic mode,  it becomes much more of a personal approach based upon one's age, health, risk tolerance, living area, understanding of the virus, willingness to get vaccinated, etc.  Lockdowns and mandatory procedures are in the past for most areas.  Social distancing and masking are in decline but still have a place with some people in certain circumstances.  So there is an infinite mixture of realities in the population.   I can only control what I do.  Nobody else. 

 

My plan- I will be Up To Date on vaccines, Cautious when I need to be, Well Informed about the virus and variants, and Live my life as normally as possible without fear, and of course Travel and Cruise.  That is my current reality anyway.  I can adjust what I do if necessary.

[Ken the cruiser]

11 hours ago, Guppy99 said:

Twice.  In January (after being fully vaccinated and receiving a booster 6 weeks prior) and never getting off the ship, I contracted a breakthrough infection. I was terribly sick for over 6 weeks and still have lingering effects. 

Sorry to hear about your extended bout with C19 after your January cruise. Hopefully, those lingering effects will soon disappear. 

[Virginia100]

Yes, 4th shots now being planned by Moderna and Phizer. As my next trip is Italy/Greece cruise (Beyond). As a little increase in cases now in Europe I would like to get it in June or July. 

[Guppy99]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

For us cruising folk, let's think about the upcoming endemic mode- maybe we are in it already in some parts of the country and world.  Debatable? 

 

In the endemic mode,  it becomes much more of a personal approach based upon one's age, health, risk tolerance, living area, understanding of the virus, willingness to get vaccinated, etc.  Lockdowns and mandatory procedures are in the past for most areas.  Social distancing and masking are in decline but still have a place with some people in certain circumstances.  So there is an infinite mixture of realities in the population.   I can only control what I do.  Nobody else. 

 

My plan- I will be Up To Date on vaccines, Cautious when I need to be, Well Informed about the virus and variants, and Live my life as normally as possible without fear, and of course Travel and Cruise.  That is my current reality anyway.  I can adjust what I do if necessary.

Ordinarily, and as usual, I would agree with you. However, it depends upon the general public being:

• reasonably intelligent; and
• aware of the actual facts from credible sources, locally, nationally, and globally; and
• being able to differentiate a credible source from one that is not; and
• listening carefully and accurately interpreting what that means to themselves and their fellow humans; and
• leaving their political, social, and other prejudices aside and consider that they may need to do something for the greater good rather than their own self-interests.

It's been my experience , this eliminates the majority of adults.

[sunlover33]

4 hours ago, TeeRick said:

For us cruising folk, let's think about the upcoming endemic mode- maybe we are in it already in some parts of the country and world.  Debatable? 

Absolutely agree. It’s now time to take a sensible, cautious step back into living in a post pandemic world. Covid is becoming endemic in many countries, especially those highly vaccinated. Testing has limited uses. PCR testing will pick up very small traces of virus. Often not enough to transmit, whereas LFT testing is less subtle but more likely a positive test will indicate someone had enough viral load to transmit. Here in the U.K. covid is now being treated currently as an endemic disease. The minority are wearing masks but there is no legal requirement to wear one now, ( except for  medical facilities). Self isolation after a positive test is recommended but not mandatory. The numbers here are rapidly rising, but it’s no longer a numbers game. The critical factors now are hospitalisation and covid deaths, unless these start to rise then life needs to carry on. That’s not to say if a new variant of concern is discovered, which evades vaccines then we may need to take a step back,  but I’m hoping testing pre boarding is scrapped unless there is a way to recognise someone’s viral load and transmissibility risk. 

[WonderMan3]

4 hours ago, TeeRick said:

For us cruising folk, let's think about the upcoming endemic mode- maybe we are in it already in some parts of the country and world.  Debatable? 

 

In the endemic mode,  it becomes much more of a personal approach based upon one's age, health, risk tolerance, living area, understanding of the virus, willingness to get vaccinated, etc.  Lockdowns and mandatory procedures are in the past for most areas.  Social distancing and masking are in decline but still have a place with some people in certain circumstances.  So there is an infinite mixture of realities in the population.   I can only control what I do.  Nobody else. 

 

My plan- I will be Up To Date on vaccines, Cautious when I need to be, Well Informed about the virus and variants, and Live my life as normally as possible without fear, and of course Travel and Cruise.  That is my current reality anyway.  I can adjust what I do if necessary.

My point was that since we don’t know where this virus will go and surges seem likely again (based on things happening in other countries right now) people should be prepared for mask requirements and social distancing requirements and requirements to show proof of vaccination to return including in places like cruise ships. It may actually come and go like that for the next year or so or at least until the time the virus devolves to the point where it is reliably predictable like the flu or common cold. It may not be part of your personal plan to do those things but businesses may require you to comply. I think some others here just can’t abide by that and have decided the virus is over and will not return to any safety guidelines regardless of what course the virus takes because it just infringes too much on their selfish individual pursuits…oh, excuse me…”personal freedoms”. 

For me, I opted to cancel my cruises for June as things were still too up in the air for my liking. The fact that cases are ticking up again in Europe makes me think I made the right decision. My husband and I are both fully vaxxed and boosted but still wear a mask when out in public indoors or if outdoors near a large group of people. We do not really do any indoor dining and on the few occasions we do it has to be a fast food place that’s basically empty or a table service restaurant where tables are spread wide apart and if the server is not masked then we will be while they are briefly at the table. With this strategy we have still been able to travel; we did two week long road trips and one 3 1/2 week long road trip since Covid began including flights on one of those. Because we were on our own I was able to personally design the trip to avoid as many crowded spaces as possible and to select dining options that had either outdoor seating or take out. Has it been some extra work? Certainly. But it was worth it to stay safe. Those of our friends and family who have been more cautious like us have also stayed Covid safe. Those who have been more relaxed about masking and social distancing basically all got Covid. None with severe symptoms thankfully.

Perhaps we are a bit more cautious because my husband is 60, diabetic, overweight and a smoker (although he just quit thankfully) so it puts him at higher risk potentially. Cruising is a complication for us right now mainly because of the dining indoors as that is the likely primary source of transmission onboard since people were getting Covid on ships even when masks were required and that was the one place where masks were not required indoors. The tables are too close together with too many people dining at one time for us to feel comfortable. The possibility of mandatory cruise ship excursions in order to get off in a port was also a big barrier; while that has been going away in most places with surges happening again it felt like those rules could possibly return. There’s also the whole quarantining in another cabin if you test positive stuff that is really unappealing especially since we book suites.
 

So our next cruises are planned for May 2023. Hopefully by then Covid will have evolved into something less problematic where we feel more comfortable getting on a ship. Until then we will continue to travel on land (have another 3 1/2 week road trip coming up in May/June and flying out to Cali and Vegas in September) where we feel we can be more in control of our health safety.

[D C]

14 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

My point was that since we don’t know where this virus will go and surges seem likely again (based on things happening in other countries right now) people should be prepared for mask requirements and social distancing requirements and requirements to show proof of vaccination to return including in places like cruise ships. It may actually come and go like that for the next year or so or at least until the time the virus devolves to the point where it is reliably predictable like the flu or common cold. It may not be part of your personal plan to do those things but businesses may require you to comply. I think some others here just can’t abide by that and have decided the virus is over and will not return to any safety guidelines regardless of what course the virus takes because it just infringes too much on their selfish individual pursuits…oh, excuse me…”personal freedoms”. 

For me, I opted to cancel my cruises for June as things were still too up in the air for my liking. The fact that cases are ticking up again in Europe makes me think I made the right decision. My husband and I are both fully vaxxed and boosted but still wear a mask when out in public indoors or if outdoors near a large group of people. We do not really do any indoor dining and on the few occasions we do it has to be a fast food place that’s basically empty or a table service restaurant where tables are spread wide apart and if the server is not masked then we will be while they are briefly at the table. With this strategy we have still been able to travel; we did two week long road trips and one 3 1/2 week long road trip since Covid began including flights on one of those. Because we were on our own I was able to personally design the trip to avoid as many crowded spaces as possible and to select dining options that had either outdoor seating or take out. Has it been some extra work? Certainly. But it was worth it to stay safe. Those of our friends and family who have been more cautious like us have also stayed Covid safe. Those who have been more relaxed about masking and social distancing basically all got Covid. None with severe symptoms thankfully.

Perhaps we are a bit more cautious because my husband is 60, diabetic, overweight and a smoker (although he just quit thankfully) so it puts him at higher risk potentially. Cruising is a complication for us right now mainly because of the dining indoors as that is the likely primary source of transmission onboard since people were getting Covid on ships even when masks were required and that was the one place where masks were not required indoors. The tables are too close together with too many people dining at one time for us to feel comfortable. The possibility of mandatory cruise ship excursions in order to get off in a port was also a big barrier; while that has been going away in most places with surges happening again it felt like those rules could possibly return. There’s also the whole quarantining in another cabin if you test positive stuff that is really unappealing especially since we book suites.
 

So our next cruises are planned for May 2023. Hopefully by then Covid will have evolved into something less problematic where we feel more comfortable getting on a ship. Until then we will continue to travel on land (have another 3 1/2 week road trip coming up in May/June and flying out to Cali and Vegas in September) where we feel we can be more in control of our health safety.

For the vast majority of people, the virus IS endemic and 'special' protections (read:anything other than vaccinations) can be ignored.  Contracting covid for the vaccinated group, without comorbidities, really IS akin to the cold and hardly worth worrying about. Certainly not for every last person, but even good old chicken pox can be deadly. 

 

Should a new variant appear that circumvents vaccines and/or causes severe illness or death in that group we can worry about it when it happens.  Until then, there is no reason why life can't be 100% normal, imho. 

 

I'll point out that views towards 'fear of covid' and how much must be done to protect ourselves and others varies greatly with political perspective. Not suggesting any particular political leaning is better than another here (though I have my own, which I'll try to avoid revealing). It's quite interesting from a sociological perspective how the very far left AND the very far right are more concerned than those on either end who lean more moderately. Especially interesting when personal views on risk are combined with data on the risk for those people.   Often, those with statistically less personal risk have a more risk-averse perception. The NYT daily email update has done a nice job of pointing out some of this and it's well worth reading to understand that differences in perception exist. 

[sunlover33]

4 minutes ago, D C said:

For the vast majority of people, the virus IS endemic and 'special' protections (read:anything other than vaccinations) can be ignored.  Contracting covid for the vaccinated group, without comorbidities, really IS akin to the cold and hardly worth worrying about. Certainly not for every last person, but even good old chicken pox can be deadly. 

I would suggest the caveat to this may be the possibility of developing long covid. The risk factors are multiple and not necessarily just for people with Co- morbidities. 

[Guppy99]

10 minutes ago, D C said:

For the vast majority of people, the virus IS endemic and 'special' protections (read:anything other than vaccinations) can be ignored.  Contracting covid for the vaccinated group, without comorbidities, really IS akin to the cold and hardly worth worrying about. Certainly not for every last person, but even good old chicken pox can be deadly. 

 

Should a new variant appear that circumvents vaccines and/or causes severe illness or death in that group we can worry about it when it happens.  Until then, there is no reason why life can't be 100% normal, imho. 

 

I'll point out that views towards 'fear of covid' and how much must be done to protect ourselves and others varies greatly with political perspective. Not suggesting any particular political leaning is better than another here (though I have my own, which I'll try to avoid revealing). It's quite interesting from a sociological perspective how the very far left AND the very far right are more concerned than those on either end who lean more moderately. Especially interesting when personal views on risk are combined with data on the risk for those people.   Often, those with statistically less personal risk have a more risk-averse perception. The NYT daily email update has done a nice job of pointing out some of this and it's well worth reading to understand that differences in perception exist. 

You ignore the fact that while you may not experience any serios comments, you can transmit it to someone who will experience serious symptoms, secondary infections, ad possibly long term effects. Are you aware of the number of persons with comorbidities. That includes everyone who: has a compromised immune system (rheumatoid arthritis, HIV, pregnancy, PPIDs, SCID, autoimmune disease, Lupus, cancer, transplant patients, diabetics, etc) Then add those that already have breathing issues, such as COPD, emphysema, a lung removal etc. The numbers are huge.  Anyone who fails to consider that they run into multiple people everyday that are compromised , is not living in the real world.  Anyone that fails to consider the impact their own decsions have on the others, is living a self-centered existence.

[TeeRick]

2 hours ago, Guppy99 said:

Ordinarily, and as usual, I would agree with you. However, it depends upon the general public being:

• reasonably intelligent; and
• aware of the actual facts from credible sources, locally, nationally, and globally; and
• being able to differentiate a credible source from one that is not; and
• listening carefully and accurately interpreting what that means to themselves and their fellow humans; and
• leaving their political, social, and other prejudices aside and consider that they may need to do something for the greater good rather than their own self-interests.

It's been my experience , this eliminates the majority of adults.

As I said it is my personal plan and I can only control what I do.

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, WonderMan3 said:

My point was that since we don’t know where this virus will go and surges seem likely again (based on things happening in other countries right now) people should be prepared for mask requirements and social distancing requirements and requirements to show proof of vaccination to return including in places like cruise ships. It may actually come and go like that for the next year or so or at least until the time the virus devolves to the point where it is reliably predictable like the flu or common cold. It may not be part of your personal plan to do those things but businesses may require you to comply. I think some others here just can’t abide by that and have decided the virus is over and will not return to any safety guidelines regardless of what course the virus takes because it just infringes too much on their selfish individual pursuits…oh, excuse me…”personal freedoms”. 

For me, I opted to cancel my cruises for June as things were still too up in the air for my liking. The fact that cases are ticking up again in Europe makes me think I made the right decision. My husband and I are both fully vaxxed and boosted but still wear a mask when out in public indoors or if outdoors near a large group of people. We do not really do any indoor dining and on the few occasions we do it has to be a fast food place that’s basically empty or a table service restaurant where tables are spread wide apart and if the server is not masked then we will be while they are briefly at the table. With this strategy we have still been able to travel; we did two week long road trips and one 3 1/2 week long road trip since Covid began including flights on one of those. Because we were on our own I was able to personally design the trip to avoid as many crowded spaces as possible and to select dining options that had either outdoor seating or take out. Has it been some extra work? Certainly. But it was worth it to stay safe. Those of our friends and family who have been more cautious like us have also stayed Covid safe. Those who have been more relaxed about masking and social distancing basically all got Covid. None with severe symptoms thankfully.

Perhaps we are a bit more cautious because my husband is 60, diabetic, overweight and a smoker (although he just quit thankfully) so it puts him at higher risk potentially. Cruising is a complication for us right now mainly because of the dining indoors as that is the likely primary source of transmission onboard since people were getting Covid on ships even when masks were required and that was the one place where masks were not required indoors. The tables are too close together with too many people dining at one time for us to feel comfortable. The possibility of mandatory cruise ship excursions in order to get off in a port was also a big barrier; while that has been going away in most places with surges happening again it felt like those rules could possibly return. There’s also the whole quarantining in another cabin if you test positive stuff that is really unappealing especially since we book suites.
 

So our next cruises are planned for May 2023. Hopefully by then Covid will have evolved into something less problematic where we feel more comfortable getting on a ship. Until then we will continue to travel on land (have another 3 1/2 week road trip coming up in May/June and flying out to Cali and Vegas in September) where we feel we can be more in control of our health safety.

Understood and that is what I am talking about really.  The need to evaluate our own situations and plan accordingly.  You are way ahead because you have a plan that works for you.  We will cruise next end of August this year.  Hopefully a low trough period for the virus.  For the time being we have filled the void by taking land vacations.  Currently renting a beach house in S. Carolina for the month.

[LGW59]

18 minutes ago, Guppy99 said:

You ignore the fact that while you may not experience any serios comments, you can transmit it to someone who will experience serious symptoms, secondary infections, ad possibly long term effects. Are you aware of the number of persons with comorbidities. That includes everyone who: has a compromised immune system (rheumatoid arthritis, HIV, pregnancy, PPIDs, SCID, autoimmune disease, Lupus, cancer, transplant patients, diabetics, etc) Then add those that already have breathing issues, such as COPD, emphysema, a lung removal etc. The numbers are huge.  Anyone who fails to consider that they run into multiple people everyday that are compromised , is not living in the real world.  Anyone that fails to consider the impact their own decsions have on the others, is living a self-centered existence.

Those with said health issues, do owe it to themselves to take their own precautions as well.  With all due respect, we can and should all do our part, but there comes a time and place where we all own what we do.  I am considerate for sure, but I am owning what I do, others need to do the same, no matter their own personal circumstances. 

[TeeRick]

23 minutes ago, Guppy99 said:

You ignore the fact that while you may not experience any serios comments, you can transmit it to someone who will experience serious symptoms, secondary infections, ad possibly long term effects. Are you aware of the number of persons with comorbidities. That includes everyone who: has a compromised immune system (rheumatoid arthritis, HIV, pregnancy, PPIDs, SCID, autoimmune disease, Lupus, cancer, transplant patients, diabetics, etc) Then add those that already have breathing issues, such as COPD, emphysema, a lung removal etc. The numbers are huge.  Anyone who fails to consider that they run into multiple people everyday that are compromised , is not living in the real world.  Anyone that fails to consider the impact their own decsions have on the others, is living a self-centered existence.

Perhaps the answer here is that if you do not have symptoms and do not know of anybody in your sphere of people that have symptoms, and you are living in a low transmission COVID area (as defined by the CDC), then the likelihood of contacting and transmitting the virus has become much less.  Agree that it is not zero.  It will never be.   You will always run into people with underlying conditions.  They have hopefully protected themselves as much as possible.  It is called just living life as we can and being aware of the situation.  What is the alternative?  We need to live with the virus.  All of us.  We have the knowledge and the medical tools now to do so.  Not self-centered at all.

[sunlover33]

49 minutes ago, Guppy99 said:

You ignore the fact that while you may not experience any serios comments, you can transmit it to someone who will experience serious symptoms, secondary infections, ad possibly long term effects. Are you aware of the number of persons with comorbidities. That includes everyone who: has a compromised immune system (rheumatoid arthritis, HIV, pregnancy, PPIDs, SCID, autoimmune disease, Lupus, cancer, transplant patients, diabetics, etc) Then add those that already have breathing issues, such as COPD, emphysema, a lung removal etc. The numbers are huge.  Anyone who fails to consider that they run into multiple people everyday that are compromised , is not living in the real world.  Anyone that fails to consider the impact their own decsions have on the others, is living a self-centered existence.

What do you suggest we do? We are aware of how vulnerable some people can be, but apart from being fully vaccinated and not mixing when unwell there is very little anyone can do, unless we isolate forever. Medicine has moved on considerably in the last two years and even the vulnerable groups have much more protection with increased booster vaccines, currently a much less severe virus circulating and anti viral drugs. We are in a much better position of understanding this virus now than we were before and life has to continue as much for peoples mental health as well as physical. 

[WonderMan3]

1 hour ago, D C said:

For the vast majority of people, the virus IS endemic and 'special' protections (read:anything other than vaccinations) can be ignored.  Contracting covid for the vaccinated group, without comorbidities, really IS akin to the cold and hardly worth worrying about. Certainly not for every last person, but even good old chicken pox can be deadly. 

 

Should a new variant appear that circumvents vaccines and/or causes severe illness or death in that group we can worry about it when it happens.  Until then, there is no reason why life can't be 100% normal, imho. 

 

I'll point out that views towards 'fear of covid' and how much must be done to protect ourselves and others varies greatly with political perspective. Not suggesting any particular political leaning is better than another here (though I have my own, which I'll try to avoid revealing). It's quite interesting from a sociological perspective how the very far left AND the very far right are more concerned than those on either end who lean more moderately. Especially interesting when personal views on risk are combined with data on the risk for those people.   Often, those with statistically less personal risk have a more risk-averse perception. The NYT daily email update has done a nice job of pointing out some of this and it's well worth reading to understand that differences in perception exist. 

My political leanings are moderate and yet I am being painted here as having “fear of Covid” so there blows that theory…

 

[Guppy99]

58 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Those with said health issues, do owe it to themselves to take their own precautions as well.  With all due respect, we can and should all do our part, but there comes a time and place where we all own what we do.  I am considerate for sure, but I am owning what I do, others need to do the same, no matter their own personal circumstances. 

I have a client whose wife is bi-polar. When she is taking her medication, she is a shrew. When she is not taking her medication, she is a shrill lunatic.  I have a recording (so it is not hearsay) where she states that she doesn't have to be medicated because the rest of the world should just learn how to deal with her...and if they need medication, so be it.

People with underlying conditions have a responsibility to behave responsibly. However, they are as entitled as anyone else to live somewhat normally. Everyone else also has a responsibly to these folks and you can't simply say "it's your problem, deal with it." I'm not suggesting that's what you are saying. I am saying we live in a very small world now. You must behave as responsibly for your neighbor's sake as you would for yourself.  

[WonderMan3]

1 hour ago, sunlover33 said:

I would suggest the caveat to this may be the possibility of developing long covid. The risk factors are multiple and not necessarily just for people with Co- morbidities. 

Exactly. I can’t tell you how many people have I read stories about or seen interviews with who were perfectly healthy and fully vaxxed who have had long-term struggles with the disease in some cases having had little to no symptoms after initially contracting it. In some cases some of these issues with heart and lungs don’t even turn up until they go in for a physical. There is a guy here in my town who I have been following reports on. He got it last July during a major outbreak here. He was fully vaxxed but it was prior to booster shots. He had mild cold-like symptoms but immediately lost sense of taste and smell. He got the taste back after about a month but his sense of smell never returned. This is why it’s so frustrating to see people continually write this off as “just a cold”. A cold does not have after-effects like this.

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, Guppy99 said:

I have a client whose wife is bi-polar. When she is taking her medication, she is a shrew. When she is not taking her medication, she is a shrill lunatic.  I have a recording (so it is not hearsay) where she states that she doesn't have to be medicated because the rest of the world should just learn how to deal with her...and if they need medication, so be it.

People with underlying conditions have a responsibility to behave responsibly. However, they are as entitled as anyone else to live somewhat normally. Everyone else also has a responsibly to these folks and you can't simply say "it's your problem, deal with it." I'm not suggesting that's what you are saying. I am saying we live in a very small world now. You must behave as responsibly for your neighbor's sake as you would for yourself.  

Not at all what I am saying.  My mom had a heart transplant in 1990, lived 22 very healthy years after, took precautions to the nth degree, no one was allowed to come to her house if they had a sniffle, good on her, it worked on her understood terms.  My nephew had a heart transplant at 3 months old, lived to be 24 before he passed.  Being younger he lived life wide, very understandably so.  My point is we ALL need to do what is best for ourselves and keep in mind those around us.  It’s not difficult, it’s respectful.

[canderson]

1 hour ago, Guppy99 said:

You ignore the fact that while you may not experience any serios comments, you can transmit it to someone who will experience serious symptoms, secondary infections, ad possibly long term effects. Are you aware of the number of persons with comorbidities. That includes everyone who: has a compromised immune system (rheumatoid arthritis, HIV, pregnancy, PPIDs, SCID, autoimmune disease, Lupus, cancer, transplant patients, diabetics, etc) Then add those that already have breathing issues, such as COPD, emphysema, a lung removal etc. The numbers are huge.  Anyone who fails to consider that they run into multiple people everyday that are compromised , is not living in the real world.  Anyone that fails to consider the impact their own decsions have on the others, is living a self-centered existence.

It's easy to generalize from that argument:

 

Many people carry about, unknowingly, a great many pathogens to which their own body has exhibited great defense, providing no clue to them that they are carriers (though in low loads).  Those of a respiratory nature can be particularly easy to pass along, though touch can be equally effective.  A person vaccinated or otherwise immune who does not exhibit flu symptoms may well have picked it up and are carrying that virus about as well, and may potentially pass it along.  Many with compromised immune systems die of a variety of other transmissible diseases, not just COVID, often for that reason.  Your argument, valid as it may be, argues for full-on prophylactic protocols forever by asymptomatic individuals to protect immunocompromised individuals from any possible transmission of disease.  I'm not sure the public would ever accept that burden for everyone, nor that they should be expected to do so.

 

Being immunocompromised really bites.  I understand that.  It is one of a large number of conditions we wouldn't want to wish on anyone.  But it's not realistic to think it's possible for people with such issues to live entirely normal lives.  Ill health creates a great many barriers to that.

[Ken the cruiser]

2 hours ago, Guppy99 said:

You ignore the fact that while you may not experience any serios comments, you can transmit it to someone who will experience serious symptoms, secondary infections, ad possibly long term effects. Are you aware of the number of persons with comorbidities. That includes everyone who: has a compromised immune system (rheumatoid arthritis, HIV, pregnancy, PPIDs, SCID, autoimmune disease, Lupus, cancer, transplant patients, diabetics, etc) Then add those that already have breathing issues, such as COPD, emphysema, a lung removal etc. The numbers are huge.  Anyone who fails to consider that they run into multiple people everyday that are compromised , is not living in the real world.  Anyone that fails to consider the impact their own decsions have on the others, is living a self-centered existence.

Then those folks shouldn't go on a cruise. However, if they choose to do so, they should think about doing what we do when we've gone on our 4 Celebrity cruises totaling 72 days without getting infected with any form of virus since cruising started back up.

 

In essence we treat moving around the ship like a game. Hey, what can I say, we're on a cruise and having fun is what it's all about, right? 😎

 

Dining: On our first visit to our dining room, my DW makes sure the hostess and/or maitre 'd know that if at all possible we would like an empty table next to us while dining and are also very willing to sit at the most undesirable table they have. But, in order to be able to do that, we always try to come when the dining room, especially in the evening, first opens. It's amazing how accommodating they can be when you don't care what (non-window) table you sit at.

 

Elevators: We're in our late 60s and are still able to use the stairs whenever feasible. But if we have to walk up 4+ flights of stairs, especially after a meal, we'll take the elevator with our masks on. Now, if either unmasked or 3 or more passengers decide to enter the elevator on an in-between floor, we get off there and walk up the rest of the way. 

 

Main theater: When we first board and are exploring the ship, we head to the main theater and develop a strategy as to where we will sit using knowledge from past cruises if possible. On a Celebrity ship, the theaters have 3-4 levels and have a U-shaped design, so it's pretty easy to develop multiple out-of-the-way seating options. Now, on a Princess ship, their theater seating takes a little more creative thinking. But, of course, that's all part of the game to make adjustments when necessary.

 

Downtime: We always get a balcony and try to determine which cabin location will produce the most shade during the cruise, especially in the afternoon. Hanging out with a bunch of people near the pool is just not something we would do. 

 

Reducing stress by walking in underutilized spaces: When we first get on the ship, we also check out where the entrances to the promenade walkways are and use them, when necessary, in a crowded situation when we need to get from one end of the ship to another. If not an option, we will use the nearby stairs, walk up a flight or two, and then walk through a cabin hallway to get to the other end of the ship.

 

But, most importantly, we treat it like a game as we've enjoyed not getting sick on/or after a cruise for many years now. Of course, we also have no desire to mess up our cruise by getting quarantined, either by getting C19 or being traced, as we usually are on cruises that are at least 2-3+ weeks long.

 

The bottom line is that it's up to YOU to keep yourself safe and not worry about the variety of personalities that will be on the ship cruising with you and what they will do. If they catch C19, that's their problem, not ours. We did everything we could to avoid other passengers whenever possible on the ship or while on an excursion. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Ken the cruiser

[highway180]

11 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

 

 

The bottom line is that it's up to YOU to keep yourself safe and not worry about the variety of personalities that will be on the ship cruising with you and what they will do. If they catch C19, that's problem, not ours. We did everything we could to avoid other passengers whenever possible on the ship on while on an excursion. 

But what if it was YOU who unintentionally spread it.......so then it's their problem???

piss poor attitude Ken, as anything is possible with this virus  . We need to stop judging people we hardly know......period

 

this thread should've been locked a long time ago

JMHO

[Virginia100]

13 minutes ago, highway180 said:

But what if it was YOU who unintentionally spread it.......so then it's their problem???

piss poor attitude Ken, as anything is possible with this virus  . We need to stop judging people we hardly know......period

 

this thread should've been locked a long time ago

JMHO

It’s simple, if crowds and people scare you these days simply do not go on cruises or in airports or planes. Rent a  VRBO and drive to the location. There is always a solution. It may not be the perfect one but a group will not bend to the wishes of a few. I admire Ken for the length of what he does for himself without restrictions on what others do. When I go 3/26 I will probably be a little more careful too but not quite as diligent as Ken. It’s think it obvious at this point government mandates just don’t work. People need to be convinced to do it on their own. If not, well, that’s life and their risk. No mask for me 95% of time, have three shots, yep, I’ll go for the 4th. It may not be quite like A/B flu but the time has passed for all the restrictions.