Carnival Freedom Funnel Fire

[quattrohead]

Someone here rumoured that it would be scrapped LOL Total 8ollocks.

BTW my suggestion of a cropped funnel is also just a wild and fun rumour.

[farjar]

Our upcoming September Panama Canal cruise was originally booked on the Freedom.  Several months back CCL switched ships to the Spirit.  We are now glad they did even if the Freedom is repaired and back on line by then.

[Indytraveler83]

35 minutes ago, quattrohead said:

Someone here rumoured that it would be scrapped LOL Total 8ollocks.

BTW my suggestion of a cropped funnel is also just a wild and fun rumour.

 

Yeah, scrapping is a crazy idea.  Freedom is nowhere close to that, and they've repaired ships with FAR more damage in the past.

 

I feel like a cropped/modified funnel seems most likely though.  They obviously don't have a random funnel they can just slap on, and won't keep the ship out of service waiting for a mostly cosmetic part.  Much like the Glory, it'll probably get a band-aid and sent back to sea, while they plan the real repairs around the next drydock.  

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Indytraveler83 said:

I agree that they'll probably just try to patch her and safely modify the current funnel to get the ship back out ASAP.  She's got the old white hull, so there's got to already be plans to drydock at some point for repainting.  They can replace the funnel then.  

 

Still wonder if there's anything more to the damage beyond the funnel.  I keep hearing rumors about engine damage and struggles to restart, but nothing more than rumors as far as I know...

I'm seeing conflicting data, likely due to postponing some survey dates due to the shutdown, but Freedom's next statutory drydock isn't until Mar '24 or '25 (the conflicting data).  Painting a new livery above the waterline would be the least of concerns for scheduling a drydock, that will wait until they are required to dock.

 

There may have been damage to one engine, the one where the exhaust is drooping down, and most likely the one that started the fire, but the absence of smoke anywhere else on the ship leads me to believe that any engine damage would be confined to the turbocharger and exhaust system, so minor in nature, and this would still be just one of 6 engines on the ship.  The ship can make full speed on 5 engines, as they have to overhaul these engines every 30 months, or one every 5 months, and it takes a good 2 months to overhaul.

[silvercrikhix]

On 5/26/2022 at 11:07 AM, kbnovak said:

We’re on the Mardi Gras, docked right next to the Freedom.  This was our view of the fire this morning.

All efforts were taken to keep passengers and crew on each ship safe.

Mardi Gras sent a contingent of firefighters over to help, as well as clearing all of our public decks and the balconies on the starboard side, and deployed our firefighters to our open decks, complete with charged hoses.

It was scary to see, but reassuring to see the quick response and expertise in keeping everyone safe.

Wowee…Am I imaging things, or is there a man in the middle of the funnel in your 3rd picture?! 

Sure looks like it to me!  If so, he’s my new spirit hero!  Lol  if not, I need an eye exam, pronto! 

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, silvercrikhix said:

Wowee…Am I imaging things, or is there a man in the middle of the funnel in your 3rd picture?! 

Sure looks like it to me!  If so, he’s my new spirit hero!  Lol  if not, I need an eye exam, pronto! 

Looks like a fire team member, maintaining reflash watch to ensure the fire doesn't start up again.  There are ladders inside the funnel to get up there, and if you look at the photos posted on the first page of this thread, you'll see someone on top of the central part of the funnel, right at the bottom of the white mast.  In the photo you mention, you can see the ladder rungs going up the white mast to allow servicing of the masthead lights.  The person wasn't there until the fire was out, as it is too dangerous to go up to a fire overhead on vertical ladders.

[csoud68]

On 5/29/2022 at 9:39 AM, chengkp75 said:

The difference in cost between a drydocking and a wet berth repair is so great it wouldn't even be considered.  A wet berth would cost around $20k/day just for the berth.  A drydock runs around $400k/day or more, just for the dock time.  Unless a drydock is required by statute, or by the need to repair underwater equipment, it ain't gonna happen, certainly not in the present fiscal environment.

Well, it's drydocked. You obviously are not correct...but I give u points for trying..

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, csoud68 said:

Well, it's drydocked. You obviously are not correct...but I give u points for trying..

Where do you see that?  According to Marinetraffic, she is sitting at the wet berth alongside drydock #3, which currently has the Paradero, a small container ship in that dock.  Dock #2 is the damaged one, and Dock #1 is too small.

[lazydayz]

We were in port with the Freedom on Thursday and both my husband and I noted it was in bad need of an exterior paint job.  Of course all of that became old hat once its funnel caught on fire the next day.  

 

I hope Carnival takes this opportunity to paint the ship and add a new funnel.  The unique funnel design is important Carnival trade dress and it needs to be protected and maintained.  Ship happens, but sometimes it presents new opportunities. 

[silvercrikhix]

38 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Where do you see that?  According to Marinetraffic, she is sitting at the wet berth alongside drydock #3, which currently has the Paradero, a small container ship in that dock.  Dock #2 is the damaged one, and Dock #1 is too small.

Edited May 31, 2022 by silvercrikhix
Quoted wrong post. At any rate, thanks for pointing out the other photobomber!

[pc_load_letter]

On 5/29/2022 at 9:08 AM, SC2020 said:

Do these events make anyone else have second thoughts about Carnival? Or do you think it would still be okay to sail?

 

You're joking right?

 

Carnival, and all other cruise ships are more than safe.

Edited May 31, 2022 by pc_load_letter

[Oceansaway17]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Where do you see that?  According to Marinetraffic, she is sitting at the wet berth alongside drydock #3, which currently has the Paradero, a small container ship in that dock.  Dock #2 is the damaged one, and Dock #1 is too small.

how did dock 2 get damaged.  Was that the one that had issues with Oasis?

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, Oceansaway17 said:

how did dock 2 get damaged.  Was that the one that had issues with Oasis?

Yes.

[Oceansaway17]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

Yes.

wow and they have not fixed it yet.   gosh.

Lately drydocks are getting a lot of business.  I think the Mariner of the Seas as well as Harmony of the seas will wait as both of their bumps look mild and are cosmetic in nature.

Still I am surprised that NCL was able to fix the Escape in Port Canaveral.

[chengkp75]

Just now, Oceansaway17 said:

wow and they have not fixed it yet.   gosh.

Lately drydocks are getting a lot of business.  I think the Mariner of the Seas as well as Harmony of the seas will wait as both of their bumps look mild and are cosmetic in nature.

Still I am surprised that NCL was able to fix the Escape in Port Canaveral.

It literally broke in half.  To fix it, you need something to lift it out of the water, like a bigger drydock.  Harmony's damage will definitely wait until the next scheduled drydock, as there is no structural damage evident, and the dented plating is merely cosmetic (no severe creasing of the plating).  They could even ballast the bow down a bit, get that dent a little higher out of the water, and do it at a turn around port call.  Don't know about Mariner.  The Escape repair did not require a drydock, so it didn't go to one.  I don't think that Grand Bahamas would have completed the repairs any faster than what was done in PC.

[Oceansaway17]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

It literally broke in half.  To fix it, you need something to lift it out of the water, like a bigger drydock.  Harmony's damage will definitely wait until the next scheduled drydock, as there is no structural damage evident, and the dented plating is merely cosmetic (no severe creasing of the plating).  They could even ballast the bow down a bit, get that dent a little higher out of the water, and do it at a turn around port call.  Don't know about Mariner.  The Escape repair did not require a drydock, so it didn't go to one.  I don't think that Grand Bahamas would have completed the repairs any faster than what was done in PC.

you mean the drydock #2 broke in half   really.  that crane did a lot of damage then to the ship and dock

[Oceansaway17]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It literally broke in half.  To fix it, you need something to lift it out of the water, like a bigger 

oops never mind you meant the crane broke

[MrMarc]

4 minutes ago, Oceansaway17 said:

you mean the drydock #2 broke in half   really.  that crane did a lot of damage then to the ship and dock

Yes.  I doubt they will ever try that again.

[MrMarc]

1 minute ago, Oceansaway17 said:

oops never mind you meant the crane broke

Actually the dock split, which caused the crane to fall.  The ship was far too big for the dock, but they had made it worke once, but not the second time.

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, Oceansaway17 said:

you mean the drydock #2 broke in half   really.  that crane did a lot of damage then to the ship and dock

 

4 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Actually the dock split, which caused the crane to fall.  The ship was far too big for the dock, but they had made it worke once, but not the second time.

Yes, the crane is on the wingwall of the drydock, and when the dock broke in half, the crane toppled off the dock onto the ship.  The dock had a lifting capacity of about 50,000 tons, and the Oasis class weighs (not gross tonnage, which isn't weight) about 100,000 tons, and is too long for the dock.  So, they modified the dock to have two "cofferdams" inside it, and the dock never lifted the stern out of the water, and the bow remained beyond the dock, in the water.  When the dock had lifted the stern enough, the cofferdam walls were erected around the azipods and the water pumped out of the cofferdams to allow the workers access to the azipods, which were still technically below water.  They did this for Oasis, and Allure, if I remember correctly, but the second time they tried it with Oasis, it broke in half.

[ProgRockCruiser]

On 5/31/2022 at 3:35 PM, chengkp75 said:

It literally broke in half.  To fix it, you need something to lift it out of the water, like a bigger drydock.  Harmony's damage will definitely wait until the next scheduled drydock, as there is no structural damage evident, and the dented plating is merely cosmetic (no severe creasing of the plating).  They could even ballast the bow down a bit, get that dent a little higher out of the water, and do it at a turn around port call.  Don't know about Mariner.  The Escape repair did not require a drydock, so it didn't go to one.  I don't think that Grand Bahamas would have completed the repairs any faster than what was done in PC.

I know this is old news about another cruise line, but I've been poking around, and I can't find anything that shows Freeport Drydock #2 is out of service still - the Google Maps imagery (which is usually pretty fresh) shows a ship in drydock there, and the official website (https://grandbahamashipyard.com/) doesn't mention anything (perhaps not surprisingly).

 

Could it be back up and operational?

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

On 5/26/2022 at 11:34 AM, smplybcause said:

 

There's really nothing still available. Especially if you need it to be a 5 day cruise. 

Liberty

[chengkp75]

17 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

I know this is old news about another cruise line, but I've been poking around, and I can't find anything that shows Freeport Drydock #2 is out of service still - the Google Maps imagery (which is usually pretty fresh) shows a ship in drydock there, and the official website (https://grandbahamashipyard.com/) doesn't mention anything (perhaps not surprisingly).

 

Could it be back up and operational?

Nothing I've seen, up to and including articles from this month state the dock has been repaired.  When I was there in early 2021, the talk at the yard was it was not repairable.  I wouldn't trust Google maps imagery too much.  Marinetraffic, with no date attribution, shows it half submerged and half floating.  Grand Bahamas is building two new floating drydocks in China with Carnival and RCI money that will be capable of handling the Oasis class ships.  As Dock #2 is nearly 50 years old, they likely don't feel that throwing money at it is a good idea.  Actually, the key is that Grand Bahamas website mentions that they have the capacity to lift 50,000 tons, and Dock #2 was capable of 87,000 tons.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

On 5/26/2022 at 2:18 PM, chengkp75 said:

I was alerted by another poster to come to this thread, I don't have notifications enabled.  I've opened this thread twice, so I will try to answer things in order that they were posted, and if it repeats what a later poster stated, so be it.

 

It looks nothing at all like the Triumph fire.

 

The damage is to the fiberglass funnel cover.  You will notice that the engine exhaust pipes (steel) are still sticking out.  So the fire did not get that hot to melt the steel.  Depending on what caused the fire (I'll discuss later), I don't see anything that would prevent the ship from sailing, it looks like just the architectural fairing is damaged, that doesn't even support the exhausts.  Looking again, it looks like one exhaust pipe is drooping, and this appears to be a smaller exhaust, so likely either a boiler or incinerator (my guess is boiler), so they likely had an uptake fire in the boiler.  Even then, the ship has two boilers, so they can operate with one out for repairs.

 

Soot in the exhausts is a good guess.  If the engines are maintained properly, the turbochargers are cleaned every night (the cause of the soot on the aft balconies) by injecting ground walnut shells to "sand blast" the soot off the turbocharger blades, and then the nut shells carry up the exhaust and knock soot buildup off the exhaust and it all goes up the stack.  If not done regularly, or properly, it could result in soot buildup.  My thought, though, is that there was a leak in the exhaust pipe (there are flanges that connect sections (some are visible on the exhaust pipes sticking out of the damaged wing), and if a gasket at one of those flanges leaked, soot would build up outside the exhaust, but inside the funnel, and a sudden rise in heat of the exhaust gas could have heated the exhaust pipe to the point where the soot ignited.

 

This is not major damage, it is not even structural.  No way the ship is out of service for 4-6 months. They likely have spare funnel parts for newbuilds that they can ship over to replace this.  Scrapyard?  Really?  And, as for sailing back, even if they have to go slow, using only the engines that exhaust on the other side, the ship is perfectly safe to sail, even with passengers, the decision to drop off passengers would be a schedule decision, not a safety one.

 

Yes, burning fiberglass gives off toxic fumes.

 

The fire hoses have 150psi at the nozzle, which can give a reach of around 100-150  feet vertically, but that assumes you are aiming at a 45-75* angle.  That would require you to be within 50-150 feet of directly under the fire.  So, hoses can't reach as far up as you'd think, without some protection for the fire team working directly below the fire.  And, there is no fire suppression system in the funnels.

 

As for soot cleaning, if there is no fire, you can climb up inside the funnel, with a hose, and spray from up there, not down on deck.

 

As for whether the ship will cancel future cruises, that I cannot comment on, but from a maritime engineering and safety standpoint, there is little to keep the ship from sailing.

Has this ever happened on any other Carnival ship? If it has, would you not think they would install automatic fire control systems in the tail made of fiberglass and easily burned? What caused the fire? Was it poor maintenance? I am sure Carnival will figure it out and prevent any future tail fires.

[Essiesmom]

1 hour ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

Has this ever happened on any other Carnival ship? If it has, would you not think they would install automatic fire control systems in the tail made of fiberglass and easily burned? What caused the fire? Was it poor maintenance? I am sure Carnival will figure it out and prevent any future tail fires.

Click on chengkp75 username and read his posts and you will find the probable cause.  Or you could read through this thread.  EM