Currently on Ventura-Masks Again!

[Mad4WDW]

We’ve been told within the last hour that we need to wear masks because of the high number of covid cases onboard. Happy days 🙂

[Harry Peterson]

12 minutes ago, Mad4WDW said:

We’ve been told within the last hour that we need to wear masks because of the high number of covid cases onboard. Happy days 🙂

Probably inevitable now, and just reflecting the big increase in cases generally. People are coming off ships with it, and I’d imagine their lawyers are involved in the decision.

[galeforce9]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

Probably inevitable now, and just reflecting the big increase in cases generally. People are coming off ships with it, and I’d imagine their lawyers are involved in the decision.

Great 

[Megabear2]

2 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

Probably inevitable now, and just reflecting the big increase in cases generally. People are coming off ships with it, and I’d imagine their lawyers are involved in the decision.

This is where the FCC insurance situation starts to get interesting.  My friend was quarantined onboard QV and her insurer has refused her claim as she has no positive PCR test, in fact she hasn't tested positive at all after return either.  Her husband is covered and has a claim but she was a close contact.  

 

Needless to say they aren't very happy, but at least they stayed onboard rather than having to go ashore.  If numbers continue to rise on ships it's going to be like King Canute for the cruise companies and Russian roulette for the passenger on financial matters.  

[Chrisdriving]

 

 

Pre testing and jabbed only working well

then i see  🤔

Glad to see them just pressing on now as thats the way it needs to go.

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Chrisdriving
Spelling

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, Chrisdriving said:

 

 

Pre testing and jabbed only working well

then i see  🤔

Glad to see them just pressing on now as thats the way it needs to go.

 

As a non  vaccinated passenger how are you doing with insurance? Seems most covid policies now require you to be vaccinated or you aren't covered?

[cruising.mark.uk]

3 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

This is where the FCC insurance situation starts to get interesting.  My friend was quarantined onboard QV and her insurer has refused her claim as she has no positive PCR test, in fact she hasn't tested positive at all after return either.  Her husband is covered and has a claim but she was a close contact.  

 

 

Was your friend trying to claim a daily rate for quarantine?  If so, I wonder if her insurance has non-Covid cover for quarantine?  As my wife and I found out to our cost when we both caught Covid on our May / June cruise, our insurer (Admiral Platinum) has cover for medical confinement to cabin (£75 per night each), but that is not under the Covid section of the policy and cover for quarantine because of Covid is specifically excluded.  So, we would have been better off in insurance terms if we had been quarantined ashore.

 

Other travellers confined as close contacts might find they can claim (assuming they can get a document from the ship confirming that they were quarantined for medical reasons without mentioning Covid) under the non-Covid sections of their policies.  That might be difficult if they are part of a couple and the other is claiming after testing positive, but could apply to single travellers or members of larger groups who are quarantined purely for being contacts.

[Megabear2]

32 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

 

Was your friend trying to claim a daily rate for quarantine?  If so, I wonder if her insurance has non-Covid cover for quarantine?  As my wife and I found out to our cost when we both caught Covid on our May / June cruise, our insurer (Admiral Platinum) has cover for medical confinement to cabin (£75 per night each), but that is not under the Covid section of the policy and cover for quarantine because of Covid is specifically excluded.  So, we would have been better off in insurance terms if we had been quarantined ashore.

 

Other travellers confined as close contacts might find they can claim (assuming they can get a document from the ship confirming that they were quarantined for medical reasons without mentioning Covid) under the non-Covid sections of their policies.  That might be difficult if they are part of a couple and the other is claiming after testing positive, but could apply to single travellers or members of larger groups who are quarantined purely for being contacts.

Yes, she was trying under covid cover rather than "normal" confinement to cabin.  As far as I am aware she has been caught by policy terms which insist on a positive PCR test before cover.  Close contact was always very grey and this appears to cause a problem now there is no FCC from the cruise line from August.  Basically she was told if she was confined for anything other than covid such as norovirus she could claim but not for covid.  Therefore no recompense for the loss of her 7 days holiday lost from anyone.  Her insurer is the recommended insurer of the cruise line. 

 

I've read her policy and compared it with the one I discussed with the insurer and P&O in February and it doesn't seem to have been altered in any way since then.  As the insurer confirmed emphatically at that time they had no liability for close contacts I have revisited the question with them in light of the new T&C's. 

 

As my December trip is a Caribbean fly cruise with at least one port requiring onboard testing I am personally very interested in what could happen if my observed test before flying was positive so I couldn't travel or what would occur if I became positive onboard.  

[cruising.mark.uk]

As far as I can see, the question is not whether insurers have liability for close contacts under the Covid section of their policy but rather why they will not pay out to individuals who are confined without having Covid under the non-Covid sections of their policy?

 

Here's an extract from my policy:

'Cruise cabin confinement We will pay up to the policy limits shown in your policy schedule, for each 24 hours that you are confined to your cabin for medical reasons by the ship’s medical officer during your trip, providing you obtain their written confirmation'.

 

No doubt many other policies are similar.  The Covid section of my policy specifically excludes claims under this confinement section.  But, in cases like that of your friend, she didn't have Covid.  But she was confined to her cabin on, I presume, the orders of the ship's medical officer.   Doubtless insurers will try to have it both ways.  But it seems to me somewhat counter intuitive to say that people in her situation can't claim under Covid sections because they don't have a positive test and also can't claim under non-Covid sections because they were confined because of Covid!

[Megabear2]

2 hours ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

As far as I can see, the question is not whether insurers have liability for close contacts under the Covid section of their policy but rather why they will not pay out to individuals who are confined without having Covid under the non-Covid sections of their policy?

 

Here's an extract from my policy:

'Cruise cabin confinement We will pay up to the policy limits shown in your policy schedule, for each 24 hours that you are confined to your cabin for medical reasons by the ship’s medical officer during your trip, providing you obtain their written confirmation'.

 

No doubt many other policies are similar.  The Covid section of my policy specifically excludes claims under this confinement section.  But, in cases like that of your friend, she didn't have Covid.  But she was confined to her cabin on, I presume, the orders of the ship's medical officer.   Doubtless insurers will try to have it both ways.  But it seems to me somewhat counter intuitive to say that people in her situation can't claim under Covid sections because they don't have a positive test and also can't claim under non-Covid sections because they were confined because of Covid!

And there is the conundrum which has always been there but was softened by FCC.  I assume that you and your good lady both testing positive were entitled to the £75pp for confinement - am I correct you were also given x days of FFC from the cruise line so financially did receive some compensation albeit as the latter?

 

Back in February I ran several major companies' policies by the FCA and a lawyer.  Both confirmed that in their opinion the policies were written to deliberately be vague to enable the underwriter (claims team) to deal with each case individually.  The latter mentioned what she called a "smoke and mirrors approach", ie not totally clear in what it covered but totally legal.  

 

I have contacted my friend's insurer who happens to be one of those I had contact with asking for clarity - I am particularly interested as my entire family apart from myself are also insured with them based on being  P&O's recommended insurer.

 

As may be recalled I am currently in a huge case against my aunt's insurer with £20,000 of medical costs in a non covid related matter at stake and following that event I am being extremely pedantic about travel insurance cover for obvious reasons.  

 

Of I receive any explanation of the reason for non payment to my friend I will post.  Incidentally her husband apparently could claim as he was under medical cover due to positive PCR test.  I am led to believe that it wasn't a quarantine claim but a combination of medical and curtailment.

[cruising.mark.uk]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

And there is the conundrum which has always been there but was softened by FCC.  I assume that you and your good lady both testing positive were entitled to the £75pp for confinement - am I correct you were also given x days of FFC from the cruise line so financially did receive some compensation albeit as the latter?

 

 

Unfortunately, Admiral refused us the £75ppnn for confinement because the Covid section of their policy specifically says that they won't pay anything under other sections of the policy for Covid-related claims.  So we got nothing from them.  Unfortunately, we also sailed on the only CCL brand cruise line that didn't promise a FCC for days in quarantine!  However, as a result of a robust and protracted exchange of emails, they have just agreed to give us about 75% of the total per diem for the 7 days we lost, half of that in FCC and the other half as a cash refund.  I won't name the company (not P&O or Cunard) as they haven't paid yet and I don't want to annoy them in the meantime in case they change their minds!

[Megabear2]

10 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Unfortunately, Admiral refused us the £75ppnn for confinement because the Covid section of their policy specifically says that they won't pay anything under other sections of the policy for Covid-related claims.  So we got nothing from them.  Unfortunately, we also sailed on the only CCL brand cruise line that didn't promise a FCC for days in quarantine!  However, as a result of a robust and protracted exchange of emails, they have just agreed to give us about 75% of the total per diem for the 7 days we lost, half of that in FCC and the other half as a cash refund.  I won't name the company (not P&O or Cunard) as they haven't paid yet and I don't want to annoy them in the meantime in case they change their minds!

Thank you for the information.  I am trying to build a picture of what's been happening as I'm in touch with the FCA and a couple of other bodies too. That is most helpful.

 

I'm glad you are getting somewhere with the cruise line who sound very familiar to me particularly with the stubborn stance I encountered on another issue in July ...  

 

Hoping you get it sorted soon.

[cruising.mark.uk]

31 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I'm glad you are getting somewhere with the cruise line who sound very familiar to me particularly with the stubborn stance I encountered on another issue in July ...  

 

Hoping you get it sorted soon.

Thanks.  It's not the line you had problems with in July.

[Megabear2]

5 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Thanks.  It's not the line you had problems with in July.

That's good, wouldn't wish their customer service on my worst enemy!

[Cathygh]

Just heard some friends of mine on board have got covid. They say 2 people were taken away in ambulances at Madeira. 

 

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, Cathygh said:

Just heard some friends of mine on board have got covid. They say 2 people were taken away in ambulances at Madeira. 

 

How sad. I hope your friends make a speedy recovery.

[Cathygh]

13 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

How sad. I hope your friends make a speedy recovery.

Thank you, megabear. They aren't too poorly fortunately.

[GSPG]

2 hours ago, Cathygh said:

Thank you, megabear. They aren't too poorly fortunately.

That’s quite a decision to leave the ship Cathy.

Wouldn’t they been able to get by on board?

[ace2542]

23 minutes ago, GSPG said:

That’s quite a decision to leave the ship Cathy.

Wouldn’t they been able to get by on board?

Was it their decision? Or the ships? You don't have a choice if it is the ships and P&O doesn't care how they get home if they don't want you on the ship you are not on the ship anymore.

[Cathygh]

50 minutes ago, GSPG said:

That’s quite a decision to leave the ship Cathy.

Wouldn’t they been able to get by on board?

It's not my friends who had to leave, they are in isolation on board. My friends saw 2 other passengers taken away in an ambulance.

 

[Trevor Fountain]

Just now, Cathygh said:

It's not my friends who had to leave, they are in isolation on board. My friends saw 2 other passengers taken away in an ambulance.

 

Maybe not covid then? Many reasons why they may have required hospitalisation.

[Cathygh]

3 minutes ago, Trevor Fountain said:

Maybe not covid then? Many reasons why they may have required hospitalisation.

Yes covid they say. 

 

[Trevor Fountain]

Just now, Cathygh said:

Yes covid they say. 

 

That's a shame. As much as I don't want to be in isolation, I certainly don't want to end up in the back of an ambulance.

[yoj13]

This is not the news I wanted to hear, but am grateful for the update on mask wearing on Ventura.

We are/were hoping to join Ventura on the 8th October, N 227 but this latest news is rather un-nerving.

Whilst fully vaccinated, my husband  is a heart patient, so obviously in the vulnerable catergory  and honestly we just can't take any chances whatsoever.  I am certainly not looking for a refund, but should the situation remain as it is or indeed worsen,  would P&O be likely to issue a FCC given the circumstances.

[Red Leicester]

Different ship but we have been told to wear masks on board Britannia as of 18:00 this evening.