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Ebony & Ivory

By Ebony & Ivory,
in Panama Canal

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Essiesmom "Live from...." Rare

Essiesmom

Posted
Posted

First, look at the size and age of the ships.  Most cruise lines seem to think bigger is better, and those ships are too big for the original locks.  I could tell you how to research this but really, the easiest way is to come here and tell us what ships you are considering, and we can tell you.  There are several previous threads here that address this.  EM

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BillB48

BillB48

Posted
Posted

E&I, in all honesty EM's suggestion of throwing out the name of the ship/s you are considering is the easiest and there is always someone knowledgeable here that will give an accurate answer.  Web sites often report dimensions that at first glance indicate the ship is actually larger than what the Canal's limits are.  This is the case often times when the beam of the ship is quoted for the widest point of the ship, such as the bridge wings which could lead to an inaccurate conclusion.  The determining figures are at the waterline and many websites do not always provide that figure.  If you want to give a go at your own research, here are the magic numbers: L 965' W (or beam) 106'.  Those figures and under, original locks. anything over... new locks.

 

Maybe your grandfather knew my grandfather!

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Essiesmom "Live from...." Rare

Essiesmom

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4 hours ago, Goldconnection said:

Are you could just ask the cruise line you are traveling with. 

Oh my, wouldn’t it be loverly if the agents answering the phones knew the correct answer to every question…?  But the reality is many have never been on a cruise, much less on the line they work for, and may not even be aware there old and new locks.  As are many cruisers.  EM

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njhorseman

njhorseman

Posted
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10 minutes ago, Ebony & Ivory said:

Thank you for your help! I'm looking at cruises through Costco and it looks like Princess's Caribbean Princess has the itinerary we like best. 

The ship's beam is 118 feet, too wide for the original locks, so it will use the new locks.

FYI, you're not permitted to use travel agent/agency names on Cruise Critic so your post could get deleted if a moderator notices .

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CruiserBruce

CruiserBruce

Posted
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48 minutes ago, Ebony & Ivory said:

Thank you for your help! I'm looking at cruises through Costco and it looks like Princess's Caribbean Princess has the itinerary we like best. 

Just an FYI...don't mention or discuss travel agencies by name. Cruise Critic rules.

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BillB48

BillB48

Posted
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I knew you would get a quick answer.  If that is the cruise you decide on, you practically can see the original locks on the Atlantic side (Gatun Locks) while you are in the new locks of Agua Clara.  On the Pacific side you will sail right by the original locks of Pedro Miguel and you will be able to catch a glimpse of Miraflores on your transit.  In essence the only thing different in the transit is which locks you use, the remainder of the Canal is still the same.

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CruiserBruce

CruiserBruce

Posted
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7 minutes ago, whkchan said:

Could I please hijack this thread and ask if you guys know Rhapsody of the Seas would use the old or new locks for their Panama cruise in 2024? 

If you look at the comments in post #8, and do a little research, you would see Rhapsody has a beam of 117 feet...too big for the old locks.

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whkchan

whkchan

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I did research on Wikipedia, and I saw:

  • 32.20 m (105 ft 8 in) (hull)
  • 35.64 m (116 ft 11 in) (maximum)

And I was not sure which measurement is the most important one.  The hull beam seems to be just under, but not the "maximum".

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BillB48

BillB48

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34 minutes ago, whkchan said:

I did research on Wikipedia, and I saw:

  • 32.20 m (105 ft 8 in) (hull)
  • 35.64 m (116 ft 11 in) (maximum)

And I was not sure which measurement is the most important one.  The hull beam seems to be just under, but not the "maximum".

What you see here is a rarity, a reporting of both the maximum and the waterline or as in this case they refer to it as hull.  The 105' 8" is the controlling figure in this case, so she will be able to use the original locks.  The Rhapsody of the Seas is one of 4 Vision class ships still within Royal Caribbean's fleet.  Originally these 4 ships all had the same dimensions of 915x106 (rounded up), however they have lengthened one of the sisters, the Enchantment, to 990' so she will have to use the new locks whenever she transits the Canal.

 

I think your research demonstrates the difficulty in trying to determine a ships dimensions in order to find out which locks it will use at the Panama Canal.  Having sailed on the Rhapsody and transited the Canal on Vision, I am certain that the max dimension applies to the bridge wings of the ship.  Canal does permit dimensions that exceed the waterline maximum provided they are a certain height above the water.

 

I do like to throw in this little caveat... although your ship will fit in the original locks, you can't preclude the possibility that some completely unforeseen set of circumstances could arise and make your Panamax ship use the Neo-Panamax Locks.  For cruise ships I only know of one back to back instance where this happened.  So it is a rather remote possibility it could happen, but I would not take a bet that it would happen.  (Unless I wanted just to take your money😉).

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whkchan

whkchan

Posted
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55 minutes ago, BillB48 said:

What you see here is a rarity, a reporting of both the maximum and the waterline or as in this case they refer to it as hull.  The 105' 8" is the controlling figure in this case, so she will be able to use the original locks.  The Rhapsody of the Seas is one of 4 Vision class ships still within Royal Caribbean's fleet.  Originally these 4 ships all had the same dimensions of 915x106 (rounded up), however they have lengthened one of the sisters, the Enchantment, to 990' so she will have to use the new locks whenever she transits the Canal.

 

I think your research demonstrates the difficulty in trying to determine a ships dimensions in order to find out which locks it will use at the Panama Canal.  Having sailed on the Rhapsody and transited the Canal on Vision, I am certain that the max dimension applies to the bridge wings of the ship.  Canal does permit dimensions that exceed the waterline maximum provided they are a certain height above the water.

 

I do like to throw in this little caveat... although your ship will fit in the original locks, you can't preclude the possibility that some completely unforeseen set of circumstances could arise and make your Panamax ship use the Neo-Panamax Locks.  For cruise ships I only know of one back to back instance where this happened.  So it is a rather remote possibility it could happen, but I would not take a bet that it would happen.  (Unless I wanted just to take your money😉).

Thanks so much for your detailed answer.  It was really difficult, particularly the cruise line material didn't explicit say which locks the ship would be using either.

 

I am happy to take my chance now that I know it fits the Panamax size and accept the risk that some unforseen circumstances could change it to use the new locks.  It's actually surprisingly difficult to find the right Panama canal full transit cruise with the right itinerary and dates!

 

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Essiesmom "Live from...." Rare

Essiesmom

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Then there is the near zero possibility that the ship might use the old locks on one end, and the new locks on the other.  I understand from BillB48 that this has happened occasionally with cargo ships, for canal convenience.  Never with cruise ships.  But, wouldn’t it be the best of both worlds?  EM

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BillB48

BillB48

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3 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

Then there is the near zero possibility that the ship might use the old locks on one end, and the new locks on the other

Completely agree with you that the chances a Panamax cruise ship might use a combination of new and original or use the new locks exclusively are right around slim and none.  And I think Slim has already left town!  Kidding aside, I do like to leave the door cracked open just a bit, because there is just that possibility, although extremely unlikely.  To date there has been one Panamax cruise ship use the new locks for the complete transit.  That dubious distinction goes HAL Zaandam, in May 2020.  Again it is the extraordinary set of circumstances that come into play.   This all back in the early stages of Covid when the Zaandam arrived off the Pacific coast of Panama with 4 dead passengers and a number of other passengers displaying symptoms.  The Canal's first response was to deny transit, there was even some discussion at the time of not permitting the ship to dock in Florida, its final destination.  In the meantime HAL Rotterdam arrived on the Pacific side as well and they were going to do some passenger swapping and proceed to an alternate destination.  All of that became unnecessary when arrangements for transits were made for both ships.

 

At that time since little was understood about the transmission of Covid, the Canal wanted minimal human contact with the ship and crew.  Only one pilot was used where this type ship normally uses two pilots, no Canal seamen were placed aboard the ship to handle lines in the new locks and no lines were used to make the ship fast while the water was being raised or lowered.  The ship was held in the center of the chamber and tugs were not used to assist the ships through the locks as is the general practice for ships using the new locks.  After the two pilots completed their respective transits they went into 2 weeks quarantine.

 

I really believe that anyone booked for a Canal transit using the original locks will not be disappointed!

 

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BillB48

BillB48

Posted
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Another vote cast for EM's prognostications!  The Brilliance fits nice and snugly in the original locks, so barring any out of the blue or some off the wall unforeseen circumstance, the original locks are the locks you will use.

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