Dancing

[ballroom-cruisers]

Yes indeed - the people I know who have been dance hosts do enjoy it, but usually say that it is not quite the free holiday that they expected - as there is little time to do their own holidaying. But it is rewarding for them, and they enjoy being able to give something nice to quite a few passengers who would otherwise be unable to dance.  Yes they get to go on shore excursions, but of course have responsibility for ensuring nobody goes missing and the same number get back to the ship at the end of the excursion as started out at the beginning of the trip!

[Dancer Bob]

Last I heard, hosts pay $30/day. They also provide their own costumes (believe it or not, costumes don't include dance shoes!). They get air included if over 30 days- not many serious teachers can take that much time from the studio, and it definitely skews towards over 60. While they can escort tours, for guys over 60, starting early in the morning and dancing til midnite, that's a very long day.

For a long time, Cunard has ordered hosts from a US agency. Last summer, Cunard ordered two hosts for QM2 World Cruise, I've seen no posts as to what the situation actually is. I've heard 2 hosts are being ordered for some but not all QE cruises. Ballroom-cruisers' posts suggest a UK agency may be being used as well.

Cunard's music is closely controlled by corporate HQ, and it's not nearly up to the standard of a real dance venue. Very limited selection, often off-tempo. Often 6-8 minutes long (real ballroom is more like 3 minutes), which limits the number of dances in each set, which doesn't sit well with the single ladies.

[ballroom-cruisers]

It seems that it is more difficult to get high quality dance orchestra musicians once cruises restarted after lockdown. We have had one or two excellent band leaders who know how to play good quality ballroom music, but more recently, as you say, less appropriate tempo, and wrong musical phrasing for dancing, has become more common, as well as poor choice of a good range of music. There has been a lack of understanding that playing a samba followed by a jive, followed by a 5 minute Viennese Waltz is utterly inconsiderate of what is appropriate for dancers. There is no understanding of the need to put slower dances in between the faster ones! Playing a piece of music announced as "in the style of a foxtrot" generally leads to amusement among those who can dance! The consequence once the music starts and the first into heard is that dancers stay in their seats!

Edited February 23, 2023 by ballroom-cruisers
typo and added sentence

[Dancer Bob]

Haven't heard of "in the style of" before (I shudder to think what that may be), but the rest has been going on for at least a decade. In fact, I recall a band leader a good number of years ago, was playing so may Quicksteps even the English were saying "Enough!"

[D&N]

I recall a dance teacher having a music disc many years ago that was produced to raise funds for The British Heart Foundation. It was the same tune set to different beats, supposedly to suit the various dances.  He insisted on using it for months. I thought it was awful.

I think this might have been the offending product:

[ballroom-cruisers]

At the end of the day musicians either can play to the  rhythms needed for good dancing, or they can't. It seems to be a fact that there are more of the latter now than the former. However when we come across a brilliant orchestra, whether on a cruise or a land based dance holiday we really do appreciate it.  There are some fabulous ballroom/swing/Latin bands in existence and it makes such a difference and makes dancing to their music wonderful. So we cherish those times when we can do that!

[chismrules]

So for someone who doesn't dance really. What would be the best basic dancing to find on Youtube.

Or does anyone have any suggestions of who to watch. 

 

[sundaypeople5]

OOOOh great question!  I am very interested in the replies to it.

 

[D&N]

5 hours ago, chismrules said:

So for someone who doesn't dance really. What would be the best basic dancing to find on Youtube.

Or does anyone have any suggestions of who to watch. 

 

I've had a quick look at a few:

www.passion4dancing.com
https://www.youtube.com/@DanceClassVideo
How to Master Simple Ballroom Dancing [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU9XsurRTHI]

 

There will be hundreds of others.

 

None of these have anything glaringly wrong in them. One of them could leave out the masking tape and comments about breath fresheners.

They all start with; Waltz step "The Box" or "4 in a box". The latter teacher we had started with "4 in a line" then went on to the box. Our previous teacher used older methods, which were a bit more complex.

 

From looking at these I doubt there is any one that would be perfect. None mentioned using the heel for forward steps "Heel Lead" in what I watched. And one was bringing in a bended knee stance that seemed a bit advanced for basic teaching.

 

The biggest problem is that if you follow these tuitional videos you will teach yourself errors and bad habits that a live teacher would pick up on and show you how to correct. If you spend a few months following videos then go to a professional teacher, they may find correcting your mistakes more challenging than teaching you. I would strongly recommend going to a professional. Good dance schools will accept couples and singles. Singles can be paired with other singles or some of the teachers assistants.

Classes are generally cheaper than private lessons. If you're prepared to make it a hobby, classes once or twice a week for at least 6 months but preferably several years are probably the best option. You're dancing around a room with other folk, which helps with floor-craft when you hit the floor in The Queens Room. Private lessons being one to one tuition would be faster but there is a limit to how much you can absorb in one go.

 

So, my strong advice is to find a decent social ballroom and latin dance teacher.

[ballroom-cruisers]

Certainly that is good advice about how to approach learning to dance. I would concur very strongly that finding a dance teacher who dances at the highest level themselves, and is dedicated to teaching and passing on their skills, is the best way to learn to dance.  It is very easy to watch teaching videos and end up trying to copy what you see, but in fact develop wrong ways to do the movements, posture and steps.  If you are taught the correct way from the beginning and the dance teacher can nudge you into good habits from day one, then it is a lot easier than trying to correct bad habits that develop by learning the wrong way.  If experience has anything I can take a message from, it is that for every correct way of doing anything in dancing there are dozens of wrong ways to do the same thing, and the chances of us hitting the right way on our own are extremely low. Most of us hit the wrong way first!  So the cost of paying for quality teaching is in the end cheaper than the cost of correcting strongly embedded bad habits.  Of course everyone can choose their own approach to learning, but from my own experience of doing exactly that, I have had to spend some years 'fixing' all the wrong things I had come to accept I did as 'normal'.   Either way to become a good dancer takes many years, but we need to try to enjoy that journey through its ups and downs.

[Dancer Bob]

I'll take the middle road here. Briefly, to avoid posting many pages:

For the limited range of music Cunard plays (and dancing with the same partner), all you need is keeping time with the music, good posture and a few basic figures. A good teacher, not necessarily a great one. It's easy to get carried away with things like heel lead, especially when a teacher's background is competition.

But I agree, learning the basics wrong is really bad. I don't know of any videos which can teach you the real fundamentals of good posture (which is really part of good health) and keeping time.

Personally, I had a lot of wasted time and dead ends because I did not know to ask for a “Bronze Medal program”. But that's for when you decide “this is a lot more fun than sitting drinking” (drinking and dancing do not mix). The two syllabuses I'm familiar with are DVIDA and ISTD. Both have pre-bronze which is much simpler. A teacher/studio which won't say which syllabus they use isn't a deal breaker, but look carefully at what their present students are accomplishing. To adjust to different partners, expect about 3 years to feel comfortable across a broad range.

Since you're dancing in a social environment you do also need to learn good etiquette (which is not much more difficult than stand right, walk left on the escalator), floorcraft is the technical term.

[ballroom-cruisers]

Good basic thoughts, Dancer Bob.  One thing about posture, which you correctly point out, is that it is about basic good health, is that the modern lifestyle often leads to bad posture - a great many of us walk around looking down at the ground not far in front of our feet, we spend long hours looking down at our phone, texting or similar, we ignore the advice given by the health and safety gurus at work when it comes to advice about the height of computer screens, and what kind of chair to sit in, and we don't spend enough time walking around with our spine straight, and our head looking horizontally.  I was guilty of exactly all of those things and the net result is that we have curved spines, turtle necks, weak back and abdominal muscles, and poor gait.  All of those things are not ideal when it comes to learning to dance - and takes quite a lot of time to correct - and yet getting those basics of life right are the groundwork for being able to dance.  As beginners we also didn't listen to the dance teacher saying, "Your feet will take the steps even if you aren't looking at them"!   So there are certainly some fundamentals that do not depend on the dance teacher that it is well worth looking at even before going to a first dance lesson.  But at least learning to dance does encourage stronger core muscles, and a better posture, and that will make the owner of the relevant muscles feel healthier and fitter, which is one of the big benefits of taking dance learning further.

[Amber14]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:47 PM, Colin_Cameron said:

As counter-intuitive as it might seem, head to the centre of the floor. You will be in the “calm at the centre of the storm”.

So it's okay to dance your own thing in the center of the floor?

[Victoria2]

Unless you intend to take this up as your new hobby and thus learn to dance to a high standard, watch a few videos, add post #2 in for starters  and you're off. Posts #6 and #7 then says it for me.However new you are to dancing, sundaypeople5  the arm flingers/look at me dancers. attract one's eyes, not those who are 'dancing' in their own little bubble without annoying others.

Go and enjoy.

[ballroom-cruisers]

For the main ballroom dances it is not OK. The dances move around the floor anti-clockwise, with the slower and less experienced couples on the outside nearest the edge, and the faster more experienced couples 'overtaking' on the inside. On a floor the size of the Queen's Room that means anyone dancing their own thing static in the middle then blocks the fast dancers and it does not work.  For Latin dances, such as rumba, cha cha or jive then yes it is fine because there is no flow around the room and everyone finds their own patch of floor to dance and moves not far from the middle of their patch. For other dances like salsa it is OK too.  For Argentine Tango again couples generally move around the floor, so a static couple in the middle will block the space needed by faster overtaking couples.

[Victoria2]

16 minutes ago, ballroom-cruisers said:

For the main ballroom dances it is not OK. The dances move around the floor anti-clockwise, with the slower and less experienced couples on the outside nearest the edge, and the faster more experienced couples 'overtaking' on the inside. On a floor the size of the Queen's Room that means anyone dancing their own thing static in the middle then blocks the fast dancers and it does not work.  For Latin dances, such as rumba, cha cha or jive then yes it is fine because there is no flow around the room and everyone finds their own patch of floor to dance and moves not far from the middle of their patch. For other dances like salsa it is OK too.  For Argentine Tango again couples generally move around the floor, so a static couple in the middle will block the space needed by faster overtaking couples.

As one who has more or less forgotten my ballroom dancing past, I would assume newbies would stick to main ballroom dances and leave the Argentinian Tango and the like to those who probably know what they're doing.

As to 'not working', the dance floor is for everyone of all standards and if folk want to be less conspicuous by being somewhere near the middle initially, that's up to them. Rather like the dress code threads which could put folk off if taken seriously, a dance thread with contributions from those who appear to be very experienced, could put off the inexperienced from joining in which isn't fair.

[Teddy123]

12 hours ago, Amber14 said:

So it's okay to dance your own thing in the center of the floor?

Yes. The dance floor is for everyone to use as they wish.  One person's activity might cause a little inconvenience to others, but not as much inconvenience as is caused to somebody who feels they can't use the floor at all because of others' activity.  No person or group has the exclusive right to the floor.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Teddy123

[ballroom-cruisers]

1 hour ago, Victoria2 said:

As one who has more or less forgotten my ballroom dancing past, I would assume newbies would stick to main ballroom dances and leave the Argentinian Tango and the like to those who probably know what they're doing.

As to 'not working', the dance floor is for everyone of all standards and if folk want to be less conspicuous by being somewhere near the middle initially, that's up to them. Rather like the dress code threads which could put folk off if taken seriously, a dance thread with contributions from those who appear to be very experienced, could put off the inexperienced from joining in which isn't fair.

 

The middle of the floor is for the more experienced, not for the less experienced. The edge is for the beginner dancers - that has been the normal etiquette for quite a long time.

 

If the beginner dancers stay on the edge then provided the centre is not blocked by other inexperienced dancers, then that leaves the middle for the experienced dancers to go around the beginners - then it all works. If beginners clog the middle then the experienced dancers are jammed from moving. If people stick to the conventional protocol, then ALL dancers at all levels can enjoy themselves, and that is the point of having that convention.

Edited March 12, 2023 by ballroom-cruisers
added section

[Host Hattie]

13 hours ago, Amber14 said:

So it's okay to dance your own thing in the center of the floor?

I'm not sure which ship you are on but there's always G32 on QM2 or the Yacht Club on QE/QV for dancing as well.

[Victoria2]

29 minutes ago, ballroom-cruisers said:

 

The middle of the floor is for the more experienced, not for the less experienced. The edge is for the beginner dancers - that has been the normal etiquette for quite a long time.

 

If the beginner dancers stay on the edge then provided the centre is not blocked by other inexperienced dancers, then that leaves the middle for the experienced dancers to go around the beginners - then it all works. If beginners clog the middle then the experienced dancers are jammed from moving. If people stick to the conventional protocol, then ALL dancers at all levels can enjoy themselves, and that is the point of having that convention.

It might be normal etiquette to those who know, but for the inexperienced, who want to take to the floor but basically 'hide' for a while, that is their right. The floor is for all, experienced to total beginners and as a frequent deck three observer on QV, I do see 'middle of room' dancers so it does happen. 🙂

[exlondoner]

4 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

It might be normal etiquette to those who know, but for the inexperienced, who want to take to the floor but basically 'hide' for a while, that is their right. The floor is for all, experienced to total beginners and as a frequent deck three observer on QV, I do see 'middle of room' dancers so it does happen. 🙂

As a non-dancer I find all this pretty terrifying, and it certainly does not encourage me to learn to dance a little so I can join in. It also seems miles away from my parents youth, when, because it was the custom of the time, with barely a lesson, they took to crowded dance floors and managed to enjoy themselves without crashing into too many people. 

[sundaypeople5]

I agree this is feeling very intimidating.  It sounds like even if my husband and I took lessons we will still not be up to par.  We were hoping for all of the romance that dressing up every night, eating fancy food and dancing to a big band in formal wear has to offer. I have two left feet and certainly don’t want to put my clumsiness on display for all to see by dancing around the perimeter.  Thus the idea of hiding in the middle. I didn’t realize that we would be messing up the flow for other dancers.My husband doesn’t mind my clumsiness thankfully. My husband is a P.A. In the ER and does not work a set schedule. This makes it challenging to sign up the for dance classes.  We guess tutorials are not suitable either according to the majority of comments. Maybe this isn’t the cruise line for us. Any suggestions for other cruise ships that offer the romantic activities, but are less critical about dancing?  

[2Oldpeopleinlove]

If it’s not for you, then it’s not for a whole lot of others, including us. We will dance as we can and enjoy ourselves. I hope you do the same. Some of these posts sound like territory claiming, and I don’t think we should just acquiesce to that and sideline ourselves.

[Host Hattie]

11 minutes ago, sundaypeople5 said:

Any suggestions for other cruise ships that offer the romantic activities, but are less critical about dancing?  

Please don't let a small number of posters put you off. 

[Victoria2]

14 minutes ago, sundaypeople5 said:

I agree this is feeling very intimidating.  It sounds like even if my husband and I took lessons we will still not be up to par.  We were hoping for all of the romance that dressing up every night, eating fancy food and dancing to a big band in formal wear has to offer. I have two left feet and certainly don’t want to put my clumsiness on display for all to see by dancing around the perimeter.  Thus the idea of hiding in the middle. I didn’t realize that we would be messing up the flow for other dancers.My husband doesn’t mind my clumsiness thankfully. My husband is a P.A. In the ER and does not work a set schedule. This makes it challenging to sign up the for dance classes.  We guess tutorials are not suitable either according to the majority of comments. Maybe this isn’t the cruise line for us. Any suggestions for other cruise ships that offer the romantic activities, but are less critical about dancing?  

OK. To bring up the dreaded dress code again, some posters are so flipping hidebound, we'd soon be sailing on increasingly empty ships if potential newbies took some folk's aspirational dress as the norm rather rather than actual dress onboard, and decided not to give Cunard a try.

 

The same goes here. This will be YOUR ship for the duration and if you want to get out on that dance floor and dance, middle, edge or wherever, you go ahead and do that.  Don't let a couple of comments put you off. A Cunard dance floor is for ALL passengers and etiquette will be learnt as experience progresses. Go and join the majority who aren't experts and who just want to dance.

 

Enjoy yourselves. 🙂