Dogs on the ship

[NMTraveller]

When I go to California they recommend that I take my dog on the excursions and just say that it is an ESA.  I have never seen so many dogs in my life while walking around San Diego downtown.  Sitting in chairs in the restaurants,  the restaurants even put out dog dishes all over...

 

Now my friend's EMU is a sweetheart.  Just don't make sudden movements 🙂

[May B]

18 hours ago, Rudi-Cruiser said:

The only animals that most cruise line will allow on board is a Service Dog (Assistance Animal) that meets the requirement of performing physical assistance or medical alert to their person. They must be trained to behave in public surroundings. My dog has based both the basic AKC Canine Good Citizen and the Urban Canine Good Citizen which is test around public accommodation.

The passenger on Crystal had what seemed to be an obvious disability, and had her dog(s) for at least a decade. Perhaps the second dog she owned was in case the first one died. When she traveled (extensively) for bridge tournaments, I guess she had both of them with her, one in hotel room, other on her lap at the bridge table. 
 

She was a professional bridge player.

[Rudi-Cruiser]

17 hours ago, Meander Ingwa said:

@purpleally while I acknowledge many of these animals are simply pets, I have been around 2 dogs that are trained and certified support .  One is for a vet who was physically and mentally damaged.  These dogs are on duty when I am around them and when the harness is on, the are working.

 

You do a grave injustice by your blanket statement 

I must agree 200%, a good service dog is strongly bonded to its owner and the owner is to their service dog. Yes people do go out and buy on amazon vest and put the service dog sign on the vest. These people with fake service dogs do get found out. Don't get too high on that horse you are riding, they may through you off.

[kcpvwill]

I haven’t read this thread for a while as we’ve been on a family holiday in the UK.  During the week a small dog on a lead ( which I hadn’t even noticed approaching) decided to go for my leg with either teeth or claws.  It was over so quickly I don’t know which.  Luckily I was wearing trousers and had no injury, just stress.  Dogs quite often ‘go for me’ and I assumed it was because I give off stress signals when I see them coming.  As I’d not seen this one coming it can’t have been that.  
 

I say this because if dogs were on board Viking ships it would worry me.  Have any been seen on board recently?  

As a matter of interest, does anyone else have problems with dogs going for them.  Mine started in childhood.   They don’t go for others I know, just me!  

[Moonlion]

12 minutes ago, kcpvwill said:

I haven’t read this thread for a while as we’ve been on a family holiday in the UK.  During the week a small dog on a lead ( which I hadn’t even noticed approaching) decided to go for my leg with either teeth or claws.  It was over so quickly I don’t know which.  Luckily I was wearing trousers and had no injury, just stress.  Dogs quite often ‘go for me’ and I assumed it was because I give off stress signals when I see them coming.  As I’d not seen this one coming it can’t have been that.  
 

I say this because if dogs were on board Viking ships it would worry me.  Have any been seen on board recently?  

As a matter of interest, does anyone else have problems with dogs going for them.  Mine started in childhood.   They don’t go for others I know, just me!  

No dogs that I was aware of on our May 9-23, 2023 British Isles Explorer Cruise (Neptune).

[kcpvwill]

Thanks, that’s reassuring.

[Haqdeluxe]

One would hope that a true service dog would not be prone to such undisciplined/untrained behavior.

I have no reservations with the presence of true working service dogs on board supporting their human. These "Support Animals" we are hearing about is an entirely different thing and IMHO, a recipe for nothing but trouble. 

[CCWineLover]

3 hours ago, kcpvwill said:

 Have any been seen on board recently?  
 

There were a rash of sightings reported on Cruise Critic and the large social media sight - back a few months.  All seemed to be Viking Ocean Ships leaving out of USA ports - primarily Ft Lauderdale.

We are leaving soon out of New York City, so will see if the USA connection continues.  Hope not.

[Rudi-Cruiser]

47 minutes ago, CCWineLover said:

There were a rash of sightings reported on Cruise Critic and the large social media sight - back a few months.  All seemed to be Viking Ocean Ships leaving out of USA ports - primarily Ft Lauderdale.

We are leaving soon out of New York City, so will see if the USA connection continues.  Hope not.

Remember, the US ADA law, is a civil right law and people can file lawsuit to any entity that the complainant feel that they have been denied accessibility under the law.  Service animals are covered under this law. The laws have tighten up sense ESA (emotional support animals) became popular. ESA's are not allowed to travel on airplanes like a service animal can. Small dog can still travel on airliners but there is a fee changed and the animal must fit in a carrier. They did broaden scope that is covered by service animals. Some of the hidden disabilities that are cover are PTSD, Diabetes and Seizures to name a few. I understand that cruise lines have been sued in the pass. I will say that the cruise line must review anyone asking to board a ship with a service dog. I am for getting some type of standard testing for a service animal (dog) that would test their behavior in public. I am working with an organization now that is working on this. They are working with AKC. In the USA it would be volunteer to test you dog and get this certification. The UK requires that you service animal (dog), they call them Assistance Dogs. Having a USA recognized training and certification would be helpful when traveling international. It looks like some of the US airlines are embracing this new organization. United has signed on and recognized the certifications. People with a disability who have a service animal would like to cruise in comfort and have their service animal excepted.

[CCWineLover]

13 hours ago, Rudi-Cruiser said:

I am for getting some type of standard testing for a service animal (dog) that would test their behavior in public. I am working with an organization now that is working on this. They are working with AKC.

Excellent.  Behavior standards is the key. 

We traveled on Viking last December and a woman had a service animal with her.  Extremely well behaved and passengers hardly knew the dog was there.  I think people don't have an issue with that - it is those who flaunt things and, per the comments and photos we saw of the "non-service" animals posing as service animals on a recent Viking cruise.  Dogs on the chairs at the World Cafe, and eating the food, dogs unattended at the pool, being frisky with other non-willing passengers at the Star Theatre performances, etc.

Edited June 4, 2023 by CCWineLover

[Mvh75]

Hello I have been reading quite some of the reviews. And I am astonished by the prejudice people have. I myself have a service dog because of a non-visual handicap. From the outside you can’t see my handicap, so reading the reviews I would probably be judged just like the people on board with the service dog.

 

To all the people judging the service dogs because the handicap might not be visible I would advice to be be less judgemental and more empathetic to other people. Not everybody is so lucky to go through life without serious issues. And also, you don’t know why the dog is sitting on the chair. Maybe it had a specific purpose when sitting on the chair. Mine is trained to sit on a chair to perform a certain task.

 

And finally, with regard to hygiene: I understand that people might question how clean a room can be after a dog visit. Well I can tell you my dog is super clean and being groomed and cleaned every night. And I have met and meet people that are dat more dirty and smelly than my dog.

 

So let us all be more understanding and compassionate towards fellow people so that everybody can enjoy good things in life

[KBs mum]

2 hours ago, Mvh75 said:

Hello I have been reading quite some of the reviews. And I am astonished by the prejudice people have. I myself have a service dog because of a non-visual handicap. From the outside you can’t see my handicap, so reading the reviews I would probably be judged just like the people on board with the service dog.

 

To all the people judging the service dogs because the handicap might not be visible I would advice to be be less judgemental and more empathetic to other people. Not everybody is so lucky to go through life without serious issues. And also, you don’t know why the dog is sitting on the chair. Maybe it had a specific purpose when sitting on the chair. Mine is trained to sit on a chair to perform a certain task.

 

And finally, with regard to hygiene: I understand that people might question how clean a room can be after a dog visit. Well I can tell you my dog is super clean and being groomed and cleaned every night. And I have met and meet people that are dat more dirty and smelly than my dog.

 

So let us all be more understanding and compassionate towards fellow people so that everybody can enjoy good things in life

As far as I can see nobody has any problem with service dogs or disability in general. The objections are about dogs allowed onboard under the pretext of being service dogs, that due to them not having 'service dog' levels of training create problems. 

Likewise nobody has a problem with service dogs being in the cabins in principle, but allergies are a valid concern, and some disabilities or medical conditions may be exacerbated by dander.

The person whose health may be made worse by a dog nearby or previously being in their room is as worthy of consideration as the person who has the service dog.

The discussion was about how to ensure only genuine service dogs are onboard and how people with allergies etc may be able to avoid said dogs. 

 

I write as a wheelchair using dog (non service) owner with a lung condition whose mother is allergic to dander. I work somewhere that has many trainee service dogs visiting, and badly trained non service dogs, so I see the debate from several viewpoints. 

Mentioning a problem and discussing it and possible solutions does not automatically mean negativity towards the source of the problem. Any solutions may, and ideally will, make things easier for all concerned

 

[Mvh75]

The reviews I read were about a service dog sitting on a chair, being inappropriate. Like I said you cannot see from the outside what needs someone has nor  can you judge if a service dog is or is not performing a task. I really find it very shortsighted people judging just from the look of a person if he/she is or is not in need of a service dog. You are in a wheelchair so the need for a service dog might be more visible. I don’t have that and I run into bias on a frequent basis. I wish people wouldn’t be so judgemental and more accepting and tolerant. For me this is not about keeping a discussion, I wish people would be more understanding about people with non visual handicaps.

 

 

[Breckski]

4 hours ago, Mvh75 said:

Hello I have been reading quite some of the reviews. And I am astonished by the prejudice people have. I myself have a service dog because of a non-visual handicap. From the outside you can’t see my handicap, so reading the reviews I would probably be judged just like the people on board with the service dog.

 

To all the people judging the service dogs because the handicap might not be visible I would advice to be be less judgemental and more empathetic to other people. Not everybody is so lucky to go through life without serious issues. And also, you don’t know why the dog is sitting on the chair. Maybe it had a specific purpose when sitting on the chair. Mine is trained to sit on a chair to perform a certain task.

 

And finally, with regard to hygiene: I understand that people might question how clean a room can be after a dog visit. Well I can tell you my dog is super clean and being groomed and cleaned every night. And I have met and meet people that are dat more dirty and smelly than my dog.

 

So let us all be more understanding and compassionate towards fellow people so that everybody can enjoy good things in life

 

I'm astonished one would call me prejudiced for my views on pets called service animals.  I'm certain by your view there could always be a legitimate reason for the service dog/pet's actions.  I choose to believe the members of this forum with first-hand viewing/interaction that in this case the service dog was a pet over your interpretation from miles away.

 

I know this is anecdotal, but I've experienced two instances this year at restaurants where folks with service dog/pets were turned away from a restaurant.  In both instances the argument got a bit loud, but management would not let the guests into the establishment.  Both instances were at pretty nice restaurants so the stereotype would be money trying to have their own rules.  Also have a pilot friend who say airlines are clearly aware of the service dog/pet scams and the volume is getting larger every year.

 

 

So please try to understand my viewpoint.  Part of me enjoying the "good things in life" include going on Viking cruises without children, and I hope to continue to enjoy the cruises without pets.  Maybe these service animal/pet owners should be more understanding of the rules and have compassion toward their fellow cruisers who may wish to cruise without pets.

 

[KBs mum]

9 hours ago, Mvh75 said:

The reviews I read were about a service dog sitting on a chair, being inappropriate. Like I said you cannot see from the outside what needs someone has nor  can you judge if a service dog is or is not performing a task. I really find it very shortsighted people judging just from the look of a person if he/she is or is not in need of a service dog. You are in a wheelchair so the need for a service dog might be more visible. I don’t have that and I run into bias on a frequent basis. I wish people wouldn’t be so judgemental and more accepting and tolerant. For me this is not about keeping a discussion, I wish people would be more understanding about people with non visual handicaps.

 

 

You are missing the main point of the thread, which was that those who saw the dogs on board the ship had reason to suspect that they were not service dogs. It was the way they were on the chairs, not the fact that they were, that increased the doubt.

Nobody mentioned the person's need for a dog, other than to say that if the dog was not with the person for some time, it seemed less likely to be a genuine service animal. 

 

Several people explained why a service dog may need to be on a chair or bed, everyone accepted that. They also explained how the dogs and their humans on the ship appeared not to have/be following service dog training.

 

Negativity in the thread is towards pet dogs masquerading as service dogs to be allowed on board, not actual service dogs

Edited June 24, 2023 by KBs mum

[Twitchly]

Genuine question: do service dogs ever need to be on chairs in public spaces? I get that they might sometimes need to be on chairs at home. But in restaurants or public lounges? 

[Jim Avery]

Yes, I too would like to know what function would require a dog to be seated at a dining table.  Can't seem to find any such function online so one of our service dog "experts" will hopefully enlighten us with specific tasks that require the seated pup.

[Heidi13]

19 hours ago, Mvh75 said:

The reviews I read were about a service dog sitting on a chair, being inappropriate. Like I said you cannot see from the outside what needs someone has nor  can you judge if a service dog is or is not performing a task. I really find it very shortsighted people judging just from the look of a person if he/she is or is not in need of a service dog. You are in a wheelchair so the need for a service dog might be more visible. I don’t have that and I run into bias on a frequent basis. I wish people wouldn’t be so judgemental and more accepting and tolerant. For me this is not about keeping a discussion, I wish people would be more understanding about people with non visual handicaps.

 

I have no issue with genuine trained service dogs, and accept that the requirement for said dog may not be readily apparent, which I note is consistent with most medical conditions.

 

If you have any condition, medical or otherwise, if you wish to travel, you are expected to bring everything required to effectively manage the condition. Using this analogy, if your service dog requires a chair to perform a service, then I'll suggest you should be bringing a chair with you, so one is available for your service dog at all times. The chairs provided on the ship are not provided for the use of service dogs.

 

Many pax have limited mobility, so if your service dog is provided a chair to perform the service you require, to ensure everyone is treated equally, shouldn't the cruise line also provide access to mobility aids, including scooters, walkers, etc. I'll suggest most will agree that's not happening.

 

My wife is in the limited mobility group and as you noted, is a condition that is not readily apparent, unless she has to walk a distance. We are required to bring everything she requires to manage her condition, so I'll suggest you should also be required to bring everything for your service dog.

 

So therefore, yes, having a service dog sitting on the ship's furniture is inappropriate, regardless if the dog is providing a required service.

[Meander Ingwa]

the three service dogs I regularly have contact with ... I have never seen them on furniture when on duty.  Always at the feet of their person when seated in restaurants or socially.  I have seen them when at home and not wearing their harness lolling on furniture with their owners ( the dogs loll, the owners, not so much) 

 

 

[Sunflower & The Scientist]

1 hour ago, Twitchly said:

Genuine question: do service dogs ever need to be on chairs in public spaces? I get that they might sometimes need to be on chairs at home. But in restaurants or public lounges? 

No. 

[Moonlion]

1 hour ago, Twitchly said:

Genuine question: do service dogs ever need to be on chairs in public spaces? I get that they might sometimes need to be on chairs at home. But in restaurants or public lounges? 

Another genuine question for those in the know: is there a licensing agency in the US or elsewhere that certifies that a dog has received the necessary training and is a "registered service animal," and ideally a way that establishments can verify (e.g., a QR code or something)?

 

I ask because we know a couple with a pet dog (which I know for a fact is not a trained service animal) who were able to purchase a vest and certificates claiming the dog is a service animal.  They use it so the dog can go to restaurants or stay in hotels with them.  I'm guessing the restaurants and hotels have to accommodate this couple's pet if there isn't some real certification or licensing available for them to verify. 

[OneSixtyToOne]

1 hour ago, Moonlion said:

Another genuine question for those in the know: is there a licensing agency in the US or elsewhere that certifies that a dog has received the necessary training and is a "registered service animal," and ideally a way that establishments can verify (e.g., a QR code or something)?

 

I ask because we know a couple with a pet dog (which I know for a fact is not a trained service animal) who were able to purchase a vest and certificates claiming the dog is a service animal.  They use it so the dog can go to restaurants or stay in hotels with them.  I'm guessing the restaurants and hotels have to accommodate this couple's pet if there isn't some real certification or licensing available for them to verify. 

Nope, and there are rules about asking for any documentation. According to the ADA, a service dog is not required to wear a vest or other form of ID or documentation; it simply must be trained to perform a task directly related to a person’s disability. Business staff may have many questions when presented with a service dog but the ADA strictly limits what you may ask the owner.

https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-2010-requirements/

[Frenchberet]

1 hour ago, Moonlion said:

Another genuine question for those in the know: is there a licensing agency in the US or elsewhere that certifies that a dog has received the necessary training and is a "registered service animal," and ideally a way that establishments can verify (e.g., a QR code or something)?

 

I ask because we know a couple with a pet dog (which I know for a fact is not a trained service animal) who were able to purchase a vest and certificates claiming the dog is a service animal.  They use it so the dog can go to restaurants or stay in hotels with them.  I'm guessing the restaurants and hotels have to accommodate this couple's pet if there isn't some real certification or licensing available for them to verify. 

[Rudi-Cruiser]

1 hour ago, Moonlion said:

Another genuine question for those in the know: is there a licensing agency in the US or elsewhere that certifies that a dog has received the necessary training and is a "registered service animal," and ideally a way that establishments can verify (e.g., a QR code or something)?

 

I ask because we know a couple with a pet dog (which I know for a fact is not a trained service animal) who were able to purchase a vest and certificates claiming the dog is a service animal.  They use it so the dog can go to restaurants or stay in hotels with them.  I'm guessing the restaurants and hotels have to accommodate this couple's pet if there isn't some real certification or licensing available for them to verify. 

Having a service dog in the USA is covered under the Americans, with disability act, calmly known as the ADA. In that document, it states that there is no requirement for certification of a service dog. I suggest everyone go read the part of the USA ADA LOL CONCERNING SERVICE DOGS. There is an organization called ASSIST DOGS INTERNATIONAL, it’s not a organization can United States, that is widely available. All of the affiliated members in my state only train dogs for veterans.

My service dog is a springer doodle when I got her because I needed a dog that was hyper allergenic. You’re seeing more and more in the USA service dogs that are doodles. I would also suggest that any cruisers that are concerned about getting a cabin that had a service dog in it, ask management to change your cabin as you were highly allergic to the dandruff. You could also state on the forms for disability, that you have an allergy to dog dandruff. 

My service dog has the AKC canine good Citizen along with the two advanced certifications. That’s as good or better than training that you would get for service dogs as far as public accommodations.

 

[Rudi-Cruiser]

12 minutes ago, Rudi-Cruiser said:

Having a service dog in the USA is covered under the Americans, with disability act, calmly known as the ADA. In that document, it states that there is no requirement for certification of a service dog. I suggest everyone go read the part of the USA ADA LOL CONCERNING SERVICE DOGS. There is an organization called ASSIST DOGS INTERNATIONAL, it’s not a organization can United States, that is widely available. All of the affiliated members in my state only train dogs for veterans.

My service dog is a springer doodle when I got her because I needed a dog that was hyper allergenic. You’re seeing more and more in the USA service dogs that are doodles. I would also suggest that any cruisers that are concerned about getting a cabin that had a service dog in it, ask management to change your cabin as you were highly allergic to the dandruff. You could also state on the forms for disability, that you have an allergy to dog dandruff. 

My service dog has the AKC canine good Citizen along with the two advanced certifications. That’s as good or better than training that you would get for service dogs as far as public accommodations.

 

People must remember that the Americans, ADA law is a civil rights law. I believe that all cruise lines that their corporations are US based adhere to the ADA law. These cruise corporations can be sued for damages under the ADA law. Getting sued under the ADA law just give a corporation a blackeye. I strongly dislike people who turn a regular dog into a fake service dog without a minuscule amount of training for a public accommodation. We do have a problem in the US with fake service dogs. They do get found out and are shame. Once you’re on the cruise ship, and there’s a service dog, probably a big service dog that’s acting up then I feel the captain of the ship can ask the passengers and the dog to disembark at the first port.
I wish the cruise lines would have a kennel on board so those passengers with a service dog could check the dog into the kennel for short period of time. Like when they go to dinner or some other event on the ship. Only the queen Mary has a kennel on board and has used only on its transatlantic New York to Southampton.