Britannia broke her lines

[jeanlyon]

17 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

P&O are entirely responsible,  it's thier duty to ensure moorings are adequate. YES there was bad weather unexpectedly strong wind. But it's same as if you run into back of another car there are no extenuating circumstances.  The wind was much stronger than anticipated, but that is what safety margins are for. Captain is expected to allow for the very worst that could happen.

Well exactly the same thing happened to us on Aurora and I hear QM2 as well in 2 different ports.  I don't think that is any fault of the ship.  Have you seen the size of the warps they use?  They are huge.  It takes very crazy weather to break those.

[CarlaMarie]

 

5 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Well exactly the same thing happened to us on Aurora and I hear QM2 as well in 2 different ports.  I don't think that is any fault of the ship.  Have you seen the size of the warps they use?  They are huge.  It takes very crazy weather to break those.

 

I agree, unfortunately these things do happen and it is not the ships fault. You can only plan for so much. Freak weather is unpredictable. Although we don't hear of lines snapping often, it does happen and can happen to any ship.

Edited August 29, 2023 by CarlaMarie

[Megabear2]

32 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-66647123
 

Take a look at the pictures of where the 321 have been sent, looks horrendous for both food and accommodation.
 

For balance P&O have yet to make any comment to the BBC on the situation.

I would guess it's one of the hotels handed over for covid previously.  I'm assuming if they all had to go in one place - why I'm mot sure - it would need to be somewhere that is currently not operational a d awaiting upgrades.  A search of Trivago shows rooms in Palma in 4* hotels shows availability at around £500 for three nights as available but they wouldn't be for all 321.

[Eglesbrech]

10 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I would guess it's one of the hotels handed over for covid previously.  I'm assuming if they all had to go in one place - why I'm mot sure - it would need to be somewhere that is currently not operational a d awaiting upgrades.  A search of Trivago shows rooms in Palma in 4* hotels shows availability at around £500 for three nights as available but they wouldn't be for all 321.

I was using the “321” as a generic term. I have no idea from the article if they all went to the same place but some did and it looks just horrible.

 

Perhaps Moley will know.

[CarlaMarie]

This air traffic control fault certainly hasn't helped P&O, and I expect they never imagined they would have to put the passengers in hotels for a few days before flights resume. It must have been difficult for them to source rooms for everyone affected. However you would have at least expected the standard of the hotel or hotels to have been vetted before sending the passengers there. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by CarlaMarie

[Windsurfboy]

It's very unfortunate it coincided with air traffic failure. No P&Os fault this time. But this looks sub standard , worse than horrible. I  would certainly be phoning every hotel in Palma never mind cost to get out of this. If there was an alternative never mind cost would be more than annoyed with P&O if they penny pinched into a doss house.

 

Ultimately it was P&Os fault 

 

There will be extensive calculations of the force against side of ship for each  wind strength.

 

There will be calculations to show how many ropes needed for each wind strength.

 

There will be calculations as to the maximum force that could be put on each bollard on dock.

 

Hence P&O will know this dock can hold Brittania in up to X wind strength, with Y number of ropes. If a possibilty that ropes could not hold, then action should have been taken. The wind was unexpected, but there would have been some warning . 

Ultimately it was Captains resposibility to be prepared.

[jeanlyon]

In Rome there was absolutely no warning.  We were queueing up to get off, when there was an almighty bang, a warp parted, the gangway fell into the water and within 15 minutes we had 3 tugs holding us on to the quay.  Next you will be saying it's P&O's fault if they hit a rogue wave!  Nobody can predict these things.

[carlanthony24]

15 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

It's very unfortunate it coincided with air traffic failure. No P&Os fault this time. But this looks sub standard , worse than horrible. I  would certainly be phoning every hotel in Palma never mind cost to get out of this. If there was an alternative never mind cost would be more than annoyed with P&O if they penny pinched into a doss house.

 

Ultimately it was P&Os fault 

 

There will be extensive calculations of the force against side of ship for each  wind strength.

 

There will be calculations to show how many ropes needed for each wind strength.

 

There will be calculations as to the maximum force that could be put on each bollard on dock.

 

Hence P&O will know this dock can hold Brittania in up to X wind strength, with Y number of ropes. If a possibilty that ropes could not hold, then action should have been taken. The wind was unexpected, but there would have been some warning . 

Ultimately it was Captains resposibility to be prepared.

No way is it P&O fault if people are saying their was no warning it just happened out the blue. No matter what the weather tells them from onboard computers, the pilot. Who knows the forecast could of said to remain dry and wind perhaps was not due to reach 80knots for instance. Maybe they had all lines out already. Captain can only prepare so much based on information received and given.  

 

Would you be saying ultimately its P&O fault if another ship had lines broken and crashed into them and they could not sail....

 

Captain Kate from Celebrity did a Instagram a day or so ago and If I remember she was saying no matter how much you prepare sometimes it can't be helped. She was saying they were lucky while in Rome I believe that the wind was pushing them on to the dock compared to the other ships that were in. That they physically had to stop boarding, deboarding other ships already had all lines out and again the weather was unexpected for them.

Edited August 29, 2023 by carlanthony24

[Windsurfboy]

So it was blue sky with no wind then 80 knots. That's out of the blue, but that's not what happened

 

Very Bad weather was forecast, it was worse than expected yes, but not out of the blue. 

 

Captain prepares based on the information given , but not on the forecasts of expected wind that we all see , but on the possible worst extreme case , he sees multiple scenarios . Its his job to build in safety margins. 

[jeanlyon]

I think as we were both crew, we have a far better feel for this stuff.  No way can you hold P&O responsible for a one off storm that was not predicted.   We were held on to the quay for 5 hours or more in Civita.  I've never seen weather like it before.

 

Did you say Monarch are restarting?

[scooby1]

There are a lot of people on here supporting P&O and defending it, they are loyal we get that. But the weather picture on Saturday for Majorca was bad from the outset, it shouldn't have been a surprise to a captain looking after 5000 souls what the day could evolve into and to ensure they had all the mitigations in place (The link and information below was the forecast for Sunday in Majorca for clarity). Were they distracted from the drill going on I don't know. 

 

The subsequent hotel / travel experience for those that have been removed requires far more than a 20% contribution going forwards and compensation of 'just a refund for the days lost' that's down right poor for what these customers now look like they are having to go through. I'm not sure that many will understand what this sort of experience would have been like without being there, pretty scary I'm sure and diminishing some of that doesn't sit right. This is the school holidays many will be travelling with kids, this isn't all retired people on this cruise, far far from it.

 

Does P&O have more responsibility than many are saying here, absolutely.  

 

Headline - Heavy rain, storms, hail, high winds ..

Sunday really is looking as if it will be pretty awful.

 

Starting with the rain, the amber alert - which applies to the whole island - is now effective from 6am to 9pm, so longer than had been advised previously. Aemet is warning of 60 litres per square metre in one hour and 90 over three hours. The greatest probability of this amount of rain is in the north and the west.

The amber alert for storms is also for the whole of Mallorca and for the same period. As well as the thunder and lightning, Aemet is suggesting that there could be hailstones of two centimetres or more, while gusts of wind could reach hurricane force (which is around 120 km/h).

 

https://www.majorcadailybulletin.com/weather/weather/2023/08/26/116429/mallorca-weather-for-sunday-august-27.html

[Windsurfboy]

3 minutes ago, scooby1 said:

There are a lot of people on here supporting P&O and defending it, they are loyal we get that. But the weather picture on Saturday for Majorca was bad from the outset, it shouldn't have been a surprise to a captain looking after 5000 souls what the day could evolve into and to ensure they had all the mitigations in place (The link and information below was the forecast for Sunday in Majorca for clarity). Were they distracted from the drill going on I don't know. 

 

The subsequent hotel / travel experience for those that have been removed requires far more than a 20% contribution going forwards and compensation of 'just a refund for the days lost' that's down right poor for what these customers now look like they are having to go through. I'm not sure that many will understand what this sort of experience would have been like without being there, pretty scary I'm sure and diminishing some of that doesn't sit right. This is the school holidays many will be travelling with kids, this isn't all retired people on this cruise, far far from it.

 

Does P&O have more responsibility than many are saying here, absolutely.  

 

Headline - Heavy rain, storms, hail, high winds ..

Sunday really is looking as if it will be pretty awful.

 

Starting with the rain, the amber alert - which applies to the whole island - is now effective from 6am to 9pm, so longer than had been advised previously. Aemet is warning of 60

litres per square metre in one hour and 90 over three hours. The greatest probability of this amount of rain is in the north and the west.

The amber alert for storms is also for the whole of Mallorca and for the same period. As well as the thunder and lightning, Aemet is suggesting that there could be hailstones of two centimetres or more, while gusts of wind could reach hurricane force (which is around 120 km/h).

 

https://www.majorcadailybulletin.com/weather/weather/2023/08/26/116429/mallorca-weather-for-sunday-august-27.html

 

Sorry it was out of the blue can't blame P&O. 😂😂😂

[carlanthony24]

11 minutes ago, scooby1 said:

There are a lot of people on here supporting P&O and defending it, they are loyal we get that. But the weather picture on Saturday for Majorca was bad from the outset, it shouldn't have been a surprise to a captain looking after 5000 souls what the day could evolve into and to ensure they had all the mitigations in place (The link and information below was the forecast for Sunday in Majorca for clarity). Were they distracted from the drill going on I don't know. 

 

The subsequent hotel / travel experience for those that have been removed requires far more than a 20% contribution going forwards and compensation of 'just a refund for the days lost' that's down right poor for what these customers now look like they are having to go through. I'm not sure that many will understand what this sort of experience would have been like without being there, pretty scary I'm sure and diminishing some of that doesn't sit right. This is the school holidays many will be travelling with kids, this isn't all retired people on this cruise, far far from it.

 

Does P&O have more responsibility than many are saying here, absolutely.  

 

Headline - Heavy rain, storms, hail, high winds ..

Sunday really is looking as if it will be pretty awful.

 

Starting with the rain, the amber alert - which applies to the whole island - is now effective from 6am to 9pm, so longer than had been advised previously. Aemet is warning of 60 litres per square metre in one hour and 90 over three hours. The greatest probability of this amount of rain is in the north and the west.

The amber alert for storms is also for the whole of Mallorca and for the same period. As well as the thunder and lightning, Aemet is suggesting that there could be hailstones of two centimetres or more, while gusts of wind could reach hurricane force (which is around 120 km/h).

 

https://www.majorcadailybulletin.com/weather/weather/2023/08/26/116429/mallorca-weather-for-sunday-august-27.html

Really its all speculation what happened. No one knows if all lines were already out. No one knows if they had the thrusters on which will only do so much. What weather briefing they had been given/seen. If they had seen it was due to pick up and cause problems maybe they would of skipped the port....

 

A news article The Tramuntana region and the north and north-east of the island were most likely to be affected, forecasters said. Another It said to expect thunderstorms on the news but we saw the weather change and Alan said ‘start filming’, and we couldn’t believe how quickly it changed.

Edited August 29, 2023 by carlanthony24

[Megabear2]

1 minute ago, Windsurfboy said:

Just looked at B...ing.com for Palma, lots, that is pages and pages of 4 and 5 star hotel with space.  I wonder if any passengers have , left the doss house to something more acceptable.  I doubt if any of these better hotels could take 321 , but there is a good reason , why a hotel is half empty at height of summer. Yes it would be harder and take more staff to spread people over 20 or 30 hotels , but better for customers

With all the will in the world we aren't getting any information on where these people actually are as we haven't anyone on here reporting from the hotel so are relying on the third party reports.

 

Yes, there are pages of hotels for today but did they exist yesterday, I don't know so can't comment.  I can say with certainty there was absolutely zilch being offered in Nice yesterday despite BA and my BIL searching for hours so I'm pretty certain that Palma/Majorca may have been the same yesterday.  

 

I cannot understand why the passengers are apparently in one place and why they appear to have food being served in plastic trays like covid quarantine offered. 

 

Under normal circumstances we would be hearing lots of information and complaints- remember the shouts about quarantine hotels previously.  Surely if it's that bad and they are all there together the passengers would be staging protests to P&O, seeking alternatives and demanding that P&O do better.

 

 

[carlanthony24]

2 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

With all the will in the world we aren't getting any information on where these people actually are as we haven't anyone on here reporting from the hotel so are relying on the third party reports.

 

Yes, there are pages of hotels for today but did they exist yesterday, I don't know so can't comment.  I can say with certainty there was absolutely zilch being offered in Nice yesterday despite BA and my BIL searching for hours so I'm pretty certain that Palma/Majorca may have been the same yesterday.  

 

I cannot understand why the passengers are apparently in one place and why they appear to have food being served in plastic trays like covid quarantine offered. 

 

Under normal circumstances we would be hearing lots of information and complaints- remember the shouts about quarantine hotels previously.  Surely if it's that bad and they are all there together the passengers would be staging protests to P&O, seeking alternatives and demanding that P&O do better.

 

 

Was about to say Hotels could of been fully booked. Judging by people sleeping in airports this may have been the case. A friend also in Palma they struggled to find accomdation for 5 of them. Eventually found one but no flights and have had to catch a ferry to Barcelona then fly to Paris and then fly on to the UK.

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, carlanthony24 said:

Was about to say Hotels could have been fully booked. Judging by people sleeping in airports this may have been the case. A friend also in Palma they struggled to find accomdation for 5 of them. Eventually found one but no flights and have had to catch a ferry to Barcelona then fly to Paris and then fly on to the UK.

But then you they were not removed from perfectly comfortable cabins with food an entertainment a few steps away? At least some of these people were removed from a nice cruise ship and appear (if the reports are accurate) to have been placed in a mouldy hotel with inedible food.

 

At the point that passengers were removed it was already all over the press that there were flight delays and so probably pressure on accommodation. They were still removed.

[carlanthony24]

4 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

But then you they were not removed from perfectly comfortable cabins with food an entertainment a few steps away? At least some of these people were removed from a nice cruise ship and appear (if the reports are accurate) to have been placed in a mouldy hotel with inedible food.

 

At the point that passengers were removed it was already all over the press that there were flight delays and so probably pressure on accommodation. They were still removed.

People of course had to be removed the ship can't stay in port waiting for a delivery of new lifeboats etc. Keeping to a schedule. Get back to Southampton for repairs or even worse go for dry dock. It could of been a lot worse and no doubt then all guests would of had to leave...

 

Like Megabear said if it is that bad they would be protesting etc.

Edited August 29, 2023 by carlanthony24

[Megabear2]

Just now, Eglesbrech said:

But then you they were not removed from perfectly comfortable cabins with food an entertainment a few steps away? At least some of these people were removed from a nice cruise ship and appear (if the reports are accurate) to have been placed in a mouldy hotel with inedible food.

 

At the point that passengers were removed it was already all over the press that there were flight delays and so probably pressure on accommodation. They were still removed.

That may be very true but if they hadn't alighted the ship could not have sailed as the rules would have stopped it.  Are you suggesting P&O should have refused to leave Palma to accomodate the situation?  Other ships would be due to fill that berth as well.

 

I would guess the logistics were pretty horrendous for all.  Earlier posts from our correspondents onboard yesterday also indicated there were tensions between the port and P&O.  Basically they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. 

[GSPG]

From Estofex.org. Look at the Issue date. A level 3 is not given out lightly!

European Storm Forecast Experiment

Storm Forecast
Valid: Sun 27 Aug 2023 06:00 to Mon 28 Aug 2023 06:00 UTC
Issued: Sat 26 Aug 2023 17:06
Forecaster: TUSCHY

A level 3 was issued for the Balearic Islands mainly for multiple rounds of all kind (extreme) severe events, including significant tornadoes, damaging winds and excessive rain.

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by GSPG

[Megabear2]

Currently on BBC local news regarding her return and confirmation that next sailing will go ahead.  Absolutely nothing re hotels and passengers in Majorca despite numerous articles on the airport problems.

[Eglesbrech]

@Megabear2

@carlanthony24

 

Would you find the hotel pictured above acceptable in any way? I would not. I am suggesting the accommodation should have been properly vetted  before moving guests to it.

 

While P&O were certainly in a difficult situation and I fully sympathise I also feel for those put into what certainly looks like unacceptable accommodation.

 

Carlanthony they are protesting, via the BBC news in the most public way possible. Have you looked at the pictures, would you be happy to sleep there?

 

 

[Eglesbrech]

5 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Currently on BBC local news regarding her return and confirmation that next sailing will go ahead.  Absolutely nothing re hotels and passengers in Majorca despite numerous articles on the airport problems.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-66647123

[carlanthony24]

1 minute ago, Eglesbrech said:

@Megabear2

@carlanthony24

 

Would you find the hotel pictured above acceptable in any way? I would not. I am suggesting the accommodation should have been properly vetted  before moving guests to it.

 

While P&O were certainly in a difficult situation and I fully sympathise I also feel for those put into what certainly looks like unacceptable accommodation.

 

Carlanthony they are protesting, via the BBC news in the most public way possible. Have you looked at the pictures, would you be happy to sleep there?

 

 

Of course not but sometimes you just have to make do. People would soon be kicking off if they had just been transported to the airport for 2 days. I know where I would rather be in all honesty. Not ideal. Someone even mentioned when the ash cloud caused the closure of air space. People were in the same situation but they just had to make do..... Do you think people were kicking off when cruise ships went out to collect people and bring them back.....

[Megabear2]

Just now, Eglesbrech said:

@Megabear2

@carlanthony24

 

Would you find the hotel pictured above acceptable in any way? I would not. I am suggesting the accommodation should have been properly vetted  before moving guests to it.

 

While P&O were certainly in a difficult situation and I fully sympathise I also feel for those put into what certainly looks like unacceptable accommodation.

 

Carlanthony they are protesting, via the BBC news in the most public way possible. Have you looked at the pictures, would you be happy to sleep there?

 

 

To be honest if that's what I arrived to I would not have stayed if there was an alternative - there clearly is now - but if I could not find an alternative to present to P&O I would have stayed under the proviso it was under the strict expectation I could move as soon as other accommodation was available and I would do exactly as Windsurfboy did and look today first thing to find it.

 

No, it's not ideal but it clearly wasn't an option to stay on the ship either.  

[Megabear2]

3 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-66647123

Yes, I've seen that. I however live in an area covered by the local news for Southampton and they were broadcasting live on the tv news about the incident. This was what I was referring too not the website.