Panama Canal?

[jonthomas]

does anyone have this itinerary in their future?

has O changed your itinerary? to what?

[halfapair]

We did the Panama Canal on the Insignia in December 2022/January 2023. We booked a Concierge level room so we had access to the Spa sun deck, which was PERFECT for watching the canal transit.

 

O did not change our itinerary.

[jonthomas]

now some lines are cancelling their panama itineraries....cost for lines have risen sharply, RCI has fully refunded their panama canal itins. 

[tropicalkerry2002]

we did it in 2019, but TRUMP changed our itinerary!

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, jonthomas said:

does anyone have this itinerary in their future?

has O changed your itinerary? to what?

Just did SFO to NYC on Insignia in July/August 2023. All was well with no itinerary surprises. 
IMO: Other than conveniently/enjoyably getting you from one great city to another (for extended land stays) one or two Canal crossings is plenty if that’s your objective. 
Zzzzzzzzz😑

[jonthomas]

and you were lucky that he did...as we were as well....

[mauibabes]

Yes, sail on Vista in 12 days.  We did get a slight change to the itinerary yesterday from O sharing that we will arrive in Costa Rica two hours later. The confusion some may be concerned about is the two days shown previously for the PC transit for some reason just said, At Sea. Nothing else has changed about the cruise and since you have to transit the Canal to get to the Pacific Ocean and LA it remains a non issue. We have heard the Panama Canal Authority that runs the system has done a lot of things dealing with the water level issues, including raising prices, but that is Oceania’s issue. We have also heard that Vista will be transiting using the new canal which will be interesting for those of us who have gone through the original PC. 
 

Please do not panic and create unnecessary anxiety for the UN or ILL informed. We are looking forward to a fabulous Oceania adventure beginning the 16th. 
Enjoy,

Mauibabes

[jonthomas]

18 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Just did SFO to NYC on Insignia in July/August 2023. All was well with no itinerary surprises. 
IMO: Other than conveniently/enjoyably getting you from one great city to another (for extended land stays) one or two Canal crossings is plenty if that’s your objective. 
Zzzzzzzzz😑

 

glad nothing changed for you....

 

love that the start point for us is MIA...not SFO, just been to SFO, will not book an itin with it...not a great city anymore, JMO. 

[jonthomas]

and please do not assume I am panicking...there is a difference between gathering info and panicking...

[LHT28]

Where  would  the Panama cruise  from Miami have to end  for you ?

 The usually go to LA or SFO

[jonthomas]

LA as an end point is ok, as we would fly home from there, not intending to stay over. 

 

We like the itin we booked and hope things in panama only improve, drought issues, large charges for ships to cross, etc. It is in Dec, a prime time to be doing the canal.

 

We also managed to snag a french balcony and use an FCC, so can have one cancellation in case things dont work out. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by jonthomas

[jonthomas]

we did this itin in 2018 on Celebs Infinity.....all pacific coastal ports were good at that time...... Celeb not so much...one of our last Celeb cruises...

 

now it would be the opposite....Oceania is great....

[njhorseman]

3 hours ago, mauibabes said:

We have also heard that Vista will be transiting using the new canal which will be interesting for those of us who have gone through the original PC. 

Who gave you that information? While anything is possible I would be quite surprised if that were true. It would be quite unusual for a ship that can transit the original locks to use the new locks...it almost never  happens. I think it's even more unlikely given the current drought that's affecting canal transits because the reduced number of ships permitted to transit the canal each day has led to a large backlog of ships that need to use the new locks sitting anchored outside the canal entrances awaiting slots for transit.

[mauibabes]

@njhorsemanO did so we will see. I was a bit surprised as well as I expected the old locks. Come Oct 21 we will know for sure. 
Mauibabes

[njhorseman]

5 minutes ago, mauibabes said:

O did

Based on my informal retrospective statistical analysis of personal experience and the reports of Cruise Critic posters there's an 86.75% probability of an answer from O customer service to a question like that  being wrong. 🙃

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 hours ago, jonthomas said:

 

glad nothing changed for you....

 

love that the start point for us is MIA...not SFO, just been to SFO, will not book an itin with it...not a great city anymore, JMO. 

ROTFL.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Flatbush Flyer

[Snaefell3]

1 hour ago, mauibabes said:

@njhorsemanO did so we will see. I was a bit surprised as well as I expected the old locks. Come Oct 21 we will know for sure. 
Mauibabes

I'm too lazy to have looked lately, but if the drought still persists and the water level in Lake Gatun is still low, which locks may not even be decided until that day.

 

On a normal day, small ships go through the original locks and ships too big to fit the original locks go through the new locks.  But if low-water ship's draft restrictions still bar the biggies from the canal, small ships will be using the new locks because the new ones use less water despite  having bigger lock chambers.

[GerryL13]

2 hours ago, mauibabes said:

@njhorsemanO did so we will see. I was a bit surprised as well as I expected the old locks. Come Oct 21 we will know for sure. 
Mauibabes

That would be a bit disappointing, to go through the new locks. This will be my first transit, and I have been looking forward to going through the old locks. We'll just have to wait and see what happens on the day of.

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, Snaefell3 said:

But if low-water ship's draft restrictions still bar the biggies from the canal, small ships will be using the new locks because the new ones use less water despite  having bigger lock chambers.

Neo Panamax ships (what you're calling " biggies") have not been barred from the canal nor are any plans in place to ban them...that would prove disastrous to the world's economy.

 

What has been done is that the number of daily transit slots available has been reduced and the Neo Panamax ships' permissible draft has been reduced, forcing them to carry less than full loads. 

 

This recent article explains that effective Nov. 1 only 31 ships will be permitted to transit per day, down from 32 currently and 36 to 38 under normal operating conditions.

https://www.businessinsider.com/panama-canal-drops-number-ships-allowed-drought-backlog-2023-10#:~:text=Only 31 ships will be,waiting to cross the canal.

 

This article states that the 31 ship limit will consist of 9 Neo Panamax ships and 22 Panamax:

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/panama-canal-trims-vessel-passage-quota-again-deal-with-severe-drought-2023-09-30/

Edited October 4, 2023 by njhorseman

[jonthomas]

thank you for posting this...

[mauibabes]

That was the same article I had read after I heard we would transit the new locks. One thing we do know, “things change”. Bottom line, we are just excited to be sailing on Vista thru the PC. 
Mauibabes

[Tranquility Base]

2 hours ago, GerryL13 said:

That would be a bit disappointing, to go through the new locks. This will be my first transit, and I have been looking forward to going through the old locks.

When we went through about 5 weeks ago there was a large crowd in the Miraflores Lock Visitors Centre and the Restaurant Balconies.

Even though there was light rain, people on both shore & ship were out and about waving & yelling.

 

We were also fortunate about 5 years ago to be in Miraflores Lock whilst the chamber next to us was empty with maintenance being conducted.

That made for unusual viewing.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Tranquility Base

[Snaefell3]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

Neo Panamax ships (what you're calling " biggies") have not been barred from the canal nor are any plans in place to ban them...that would prove disastrous to the world's economy.

 

What has been done is that the number of daily transit slots available has been reduced and the Neo Panamax ships' permissible draft has been reduced, forcing them to carry less than full loads. 

 

This recent article explains that effective Nov. 1 only 31 ships will be permitted to transit per day, down from 32 currently and 36 to 38 under normal operating conditions.

https://www.businessinsider.com/panama-canal-drops-number-ships-allowed-drought-backlog-2023-10#:~:text=Only 31 ships will be,waiting to cross the canal.

 

This article states that the 31 ship limit will consist of 9 Neo Panamax ships and 22 Panamax:

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/panama-canal-trims-vessel-passage-quota-again-deal-with-severe-drought-2023-09-30/

I was only thinking of the effect of the current ship's draft restrictions that make the "biggies" unload half of their containers on one side, ship them by rail across the isthmus, and re-load them on far side.  Such bars all but the most ...motivated(?) "biggies" from using the canal.

 

Seems you found specific regulation that outright bars all but 9 "biggies" per day from the canal, leaving lots of room in the new locks.  Since ACP currently prefers to transit vessels via those new locks because they use less water, expect to transit via the new locks. 😞

 

I'd be bummed out.  Sympathies.

[njhorseman]

45 minutes ago, Snaefell3 said:

I was only thinking of the effect of the current ship's draft restrictions that make the "biggies" unload half of their containers on one side, ship them by rail across the isthmus, and re-load them on far side.  Such bars all but the most ...motivated(?) "biggies" from using the canal.

 

Seems you found specific regulation that outright bars all but 9 "biggies" per day from the canal, leaving lots of room in the new locks.  Since ACP currently prefers to transit vessels via those new locks because they use less water, expect to transit via the new locks. 😞

 

I'd be bummed out.  Sympathies.

The draft restrictions don't require a Neo Panamax ship to unload anywhere near half of its containers. In fact the Ever Max, the largest ship to use the canal had to unload only about 10% of its container capacity:

https://www.seatrade-maritime.com/panama/boxships-move-cargo-overland-panama-canal-faces-water-shortage-crisis

 

The "motivation" is there...the shipping companies are paid huge sums to transport their cargo, even if a small percentage of it has to be offloaded, shipped by rail across Panama and then reloaded.

 

Your reasoning is all wrong. The limitation to nine ships per day using the new locks virtually eliminates the chance of a Panamax ship transiting the new locks because every slot is more precious and has to be used by a Neo Panamax ship . The "normal" number of Neo Panamax locks transits when no restrictions were in place was only in the 9 to 11 ship range, so restricting to 9 ships a day doesn't leave unfilled slots. The Panamax locks normally are used by 34 to 36 vessels per day. The Panama Canal Authority isn't going to disrupt world commerce to sneak a cruise ship into the new locks.

https://pancanal.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/ADV22-2022-Monthly-Canal-Operations-Summary-JUNE-2022.pdf

"The normal transit capacity of the Panamax locks is 34-36 vessels per day, and in the neopanamax locks 9-11 vessels per day, depending on vessel mix, transit restrictions, and other factors"

 

In the end, if the day the Vista is transiting the canal happens to be one where for some reason there's an opening in the Neo Panamax locks schedule she could end up there but with a backlog of ships awaiting transit I suspect there's not much chance of that.

Edited October 5, 2023 by njhorseman

[Snaefell3]

2 hours ago, njhorseman said:

The draft restrictions don't require a Neo Panamax ship to unload anywhere near half of its containers. In fact the Ever Max, the largest ship to use the canal had to unload only about 10% of its container capacity:

https://www.seatrade-maritime.com/panama/boxships-move-cargo-overland-panama-canal-faces-water-shortage-crisis

 

The "motivation" is there...the shipping companies are paid huge sums to transport their cargo, even if a small percentage of it has to be offloaded, shipped by rail across Panama and then reloaded.

 

Your reasoning is all wrong. The limitation to nine ships per day using the new locks virtually eliminates the chance of a Panamax ship transiting the new locks because every slot is more precious and has to be used by a Neo Panamax ship . The "normal" number of Neo Panamax locks transits when no restrictions were in place was only in the 9 to 11 ship range, so restricting to 9 ships a day doesn't leave unfilled slots. The Panamax locks normally are used by 34 to 36 vessels per day. The Panama Canal Authority isn't going to disrupt world commerce to sneak a cruise ship into the new locks.

https://pancanal.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/ADV22-2022-Monthly-Canal-Operations-Summary-JUNE-2022.pdf

"The normal transit capacity of the Panamax locks is 34-36 vessels per day, and in the neopanamax locks 9-11 vessels per day, depending on vessel mix, transit restrictions, and other factors"

 

In the end, if the day the Vista is transiting the canal happens to be one where for some reason there's an opening in the Neo Panamax locks schedule she could end up there but with a backlog of ships awaiting transit I suspect there's not much chance of that.

We disagree on why, but we agree that ACP has freed up lots of room in the new locks for ships that would otherwise use the original.  Add their preference to use the new locks to the old and...  Wish it weren't.