Tips - Full Circle?

[terrierjohn]

7 hours ago, FangedRose said:

Yes, tips standing for to insure promptness, as well as appalling grammar (ensure would be correct), is a backronym - an acronym invented later to fit the initials. Like posh, which is a backronym for port out, starboard home, which was invented long after the word itself was in common usage.

I don't think I was around at either of those points.

[majortom10]

It has gone full circle because many are now tipping in envelopes for nothing more than normal service having already paid tips in cruise fare. So in effect some are paying tips twice so I bet the staff and P&O are jumping for joy.

[alpha whiskey]

4 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

It has gone full circle because many are now tipping in envelopes for nothing more than normal service having already paid tips in cruise fare. So in effect some are paying tips twice so I bet the staff and P&O are jumping for joy.

It would be interesting to know how much per day/voyage is rolled up in the cruise fare for tips.

Does anyone know? 

[david63]

1 minute ago, alpha whiskey said:

Does anyone know? 

I'm fairly sure that somebody within the Carnival group will know but I doubt for one minute that they will be telling anyone - anything else will be hearsay/urban myth.

[Interestedcruisefan]

38 minutes ago, alpha whiskey said:

It would be interesting to know how much per day/voyage is rolled up in the cruise fare for tips.

Does anyone know? 

Isn't it just a case all the staff now get paid higher wages?

[Britboys]

1 hour ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Isn't it just a case all the staff now get paid higher wages?

Possibly but who knows? Many cruise lines struggled to recruit back to full capacity crew-wise post-pandemic which could also have increased wages? Many crew on P&O are also having to work harder too though. Cabin Attendants seem to have more cabins and mdr waiters also now take wine orders etc.

[LA30]

1 hour ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Isn't it just a case all the staff now get paid higher wages?

I hope that is the case, and I hope it's ALL crew and staff.  That's what I understood when the system changed.

[Denarius]

3 hours ago, majortom10 said:

It has gone full circle because many are now tipping in envelopes for nothing more than normal service having already paid tips in cruise fare. So in effect some are paying tips twice so I bet the staff and P&O are jumping for joy.

Exactly. In the old days tipping was customary and was effectively part of the stewards and waiters wages. But some passengers did not tip, and as cruising became more popular the newer passengers (it is believed) showed an increasing tendency not to do so, lowering the income of the said employees. So some cruise lines started to charge automatic tips by default but left an option to remove these. And passengers took advantage of this option, some to tip directly but others to avoid tipping at all. So the automatic tips were incorporated in the headline fare and not separately identified, meaning that everyone effectively paid them and the staff were remunerated accordingly. It was made clear that tips were neither required nor expected but inevitably some passengers began to tip again, possibly because tips were no longer separately identified. We have indeed gone in a full circle.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Denarius

[Interestedcruisefan]

59 minutes ago, LA30 said:

I hope that is the case, and I hope it's ALL crew and staff.  That's what I understood when the system changed.

Hence why when they say no tipping is needed it's not because P and O are tipping them from  our fares but because the staff no longer need tips to justify doing the job

 

Ie they aren't paid 2 pounds an hour anymore etc? And rely on tips

 

That's what I assume anyway?

[Dermotsgirl]

3 hours ago, majortom10 said:

It has gone full circle because many are now tipping in envelopes for nothing more than normal service having already paid tips in cruise fare. So in effect some are paying tips twice so I bet the staff and P&O are jumping for joy.

 

8 minutes ago, Denarius said:

Exactly. In the old days tipping was customary and was effectively part of the stewards and waiters wages. But some passengers did not tip, and as cruising became more popular the newer passengers (it is believed) showed an increasing tendency not to do so, lowering the income of the said employees. So some cruise lines started to charge automatic tips by default but left an option to remove these. And passengers took advantage of this option, some to tip directly but others to avoid tipping at all. So the automatic tips were incorporated in the headline fare and not separately identified, meaning that everyone effectively paid them and the staff were remunerated accordingly. It was made clear that tips were neither required nor expected but inevitably some passengers began to tip again, possibly because tips were no longer separately identified. We have indeed gone in a full circle.

 

Regarding tipping, I've always done what is suggested by the cruise line. In the days when a recommended cash tip was the norm, I'd put the money in the envelope and hand it over to the cabin steward and the waiters. When tips were added to the online account, I'd leave the tips on my account, and paid it with the rest of my bill at the end of the cruise. When P&O said that tips were no longer required or expected, as it was included in the fare, I took them at their word, and stopped thinking about tips at all - until recently, when I've found out that a lot of people have carried on tipping, even though the culture has changed. 

[SquishTheWhale]

I don't know why people have to get themselves so worked up over it. P&O says your tips are included, so why are you worrying?

[Dermotsgirl]

3 minutes ago, SquishTheWhale said:

I don't know why people have to get themselves so worked up over it. P&O says your tips are included, so why are you worrying?

I personally am not worrying, as I've acknowledged that P&O have said tips are included, so I won't be tipping in cash as well.

 

I suppose I'm a bit curious as to why so many people are apparently  tipping twice.  My theory is that that they were used to the tipping culture, and now feel a bit awkward by not tipping in cash, but, as I say, just a theory 

[terrierjohn]

3 hours ago, alpha whiskey said:

It would be interesting to know how much per day/voyage is rolled up in the cruise fare for tips.

Does anyone know? 

From my memory of comparative prices, there was no noticeable increase in cruise fares at the time this change was implemented.

However my understanding of the change for the hotel staff was is that they were offered amended enhanced contracts to compensate for the change, but they did maintain a bonus system based on the rating given in the post cruise questionnaire. But these no longer seem to exist, so I guess any bonus is now based on their managers assessment, which is very similar to many other salaried staff.

[Windsurfboy]

36 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

 

 

Regarding tipping, I've always done what is suggested by the cruise line. In the days when a recommended cash tip was the norm, I'd put the money in the envelope and hand it over to the cabin steward and the waiters. When tips were added to the online account, I'd leave the tips on my account, and paid it with the rest of my bill at the end of the cruise. When P&O said that tips were no longer required or expected, as it was included in the fare, I took them at their word, and stopped thinking about tips at all - until recently, when I've found out that a lot of people have carried on tipping, even though the culture has changed. 

 

Agree, I ignore what other people do and just follow what cruise line says. Don't see any reason to change. Last cruise on Cunard paid auto gratuities in full but no more, next cruises are on P&O and Saga where no intention to tip twice . Would never give bribe in advance, one should expect very good service. 

 

 

[Britboys]

2 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Hence why when they say no tipping is needed it's not because P and O are tipping them from  our fares but because the staff no longer need tips to justify doing the job

 

Ie they aren't paid 2 pounds an hour anymore etc? And rely on tips

 

That's what I assume anyway?

My own assumption is that whilst the crew may well now be on 'enhanced' contracts that they are still somewhat low-paid. My own 'modus operandi' now is that if my cabin steward and waiters pretty much go through the motions providing just acceptable service then I don't tip. If I feel they have provided very good service then I leave a little extra at the end of the cruise. Certainly not the sort of amount previously suggested by before P&O they did away with the old system but a little extra to say thank you.

Other pax decide what they want to do and that of course is perfectly acceptable.

[SquishTheWhale]

2 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I personally am not worrying, as I've acknowledged that P&O have said tips are included, so I won't be tipping in cash as well.

 

I suppose I'm a bit curious as to why so many people are apparently  tipping twice.  My theory is that that they were used to the tipping culture, and now feel a bit awkward by not tipping in cash, but, as I say, just a theory 

A lot of it is virtue signalling. They like you to know that they tip extra and they feel superior about it for some reason. Sometimes the way it's worded makes me feel a bit ick as there's an implication of a benevolent master giving a lowly servant a tip to try and improve their meagre life.

Either that or (predominantly from US cruisers) an expectation that they should get special service because they slipped someone an extra 20.

Edited October 13, 2023 by SquishTheWhale

[majortom10]

I found it curious that after initial introduction on day we embarked on Iona in March we never saw our steward again until the morning of disembarkation. He was never around in the morning when we left cabin and had always been cleaned when we returned later during the day. On the final morning he appeared and asked if everything had been OK. Call me cynical but think it was planned for a reason 😉.

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 hour ago, majortom10 said:

I found it curious that after initial introduction on day we embarked on Iona in March we never saw our steward again until the morning of disembarkation. He was never around in the morning when we left cabin and had always been cleaned when we returned later during the day. On the final morning he appeared and asked if everything had been OK. Call me cynical but think it was planned for a reason 😉.

Best piece of advice I ever had when I was a newspaper delivery boy was to deliver a Xmas card to all my customers

 

Made an absolute fortune in tips

 

If you know any newspaper boys pass on the tip