Saga cutting corners and going the way of P&O?

[Banjo an]

9 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Firstly  I've  looked at the P&O board and threads, general they have gone down , certainly cut out a few extras , e.g. turndowns , fruit in cabin , etc, unles you pay Saga prices and get a suite .There have been complaints that MDR food has gone down , but also many complements for some of the speciality and alternative restaurants.  However haven't seen anything reported like said about them here.

 

Sticking to Saga

 

On the otherhand I've said before on this forum, Saga food is better than Cunard Queens grill, more variety without effort of going off menu. I  only had one dissappointing meal in 30 days , 3 meals returned on last Cunard,  Sagas %  satisfaction , is better than even top 5 star hotels. Service is very good and a lovely ambience across Saga ships. No other ship has anything to match Brittania lounge. Just friendliest ship on water, staff and pasengers . Things have not deteriorated.

 

There are pros and cons of Saga all inclusive. Not big drinkers, but very particular about wine. Normally on cruise we'd have one bottle of very good wine or bubbly a day and not much else. Given that included premium  spirits far better than included wine,  tended not to drink wine with meals, but pre dinner cocktail and after dinner malt. 

 

We've had very bad experience with Saga included panoramic tours, two hours of boredom on a coach.. 

 

I don't understand worry about Saga finance,  pay by credit card.

 

My two issues about future Saga cruises, is limited intinerarys out of UK. Personally I  believe if they think two days in port with broken engine is something they csn brush under carpet,  then this does not bode well for future service

 

 

10 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Firstly  I've  looked at the P&O board and threads, general they have gone down , certainly cut out a few extras , e.g. turndowns , fruit in cabin , etc, unles you pay Saga prices and get a suite .There have been complaints that MDR food has gone down , but also many complements for some of the speciality and alternative restaurants.  However haven't seen anything reported like said about them here.

 

Sticking to Saga

 

On the otherhand I've said before on this forum, Saga food is better than Cunard Queens grill, more variety without effort of going off menu. I  only had one dissappointing meal in 30 days , 3 meals returned on last Cunard,  Sagas %  satisfaction , is better than even top 5 star hotels. Service is very good and a lovely ambience across Saga ships. No other ship has anything to match Brittania lounge. Just friendliest ship on water, staff and pasengers . Things have not deteriorated.

 

There are pros and cons of Saga all inclusive. Not big drinkers, but very particular about wine. Normally on cruise we'd have one bottle of very good wine or bubbly a day and not much else. Given that included premium  spirits far better than included wine,  tended not to drink wine with meals, but pre dinner cocktail and after dinner malt. 

 

We've had very bad experience with Saga included panoramic tours, two hours of boredom on a coach.. 

 

I don't understand worry about Saga finance,  pay by credit card.

 

My two issues about future Saga cruises, is limited intinerarys out of UK. Personally I  believe if they think two days in port with broken engine is something they csn brush under carpet,  then this does not bode well for future service

 

I agree entirely. Have you or anyone else heard back from Nigel Blanks yet?

[seasickphil]

6 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

Firstly  I've  looked at the P&O board and threads, general they have gone down , certainly cut out a few extras , e.g. turndowns , fruit in cabin , etc, unles you pay Saga prices and get a suite .There have been complaints that MDR food has gone down , but also many complements for some of the speciality and alternative restaurants.  However haven't seen anything reported like said about them here.

 

Sticking to Saga

 

On the otherhand I've said before on this forum, Saga food is better than Cunard Queens grill, more variety without effort of going off menu. I  only had one dissappointing meal in 30 days , 3 meals returned on last Cunard,  Sagas %  satisfaction , is better than even top 5 star hotels. Service is very good and a lovely ambience across Saga ships. No other ship has anything to match Brittania lounge. Just friendliest ship on water, staff and pasengers . Things have not deteriorated.

 

There are pros and cons of Saga all inclusive. Not big drinkers, but very particular about wine. Normally on cruise we'd have one bottle of very good wine or bubbly a day and not much else. Given that included premium  spirits far better than included wine,  tended not to drink wine with meals, but pre dinner cocktail and after dinner malt. 

 

We've had very bad experience with Saga included panoramic tours, two hours of boredom on a coach.. 

 

I don't understand worry about Saga finance,  pay by credit card.

 

My two issues about future Saga cruises, is limited intinerarys out of UK. Personally I  believe if they think two days in port with broken engine is something they csn brush under carpet,  then this does not bode well for future service

 

I know that food is very subjective but i could not possibly agree that Saga's food is comparable to, let alone better than food served in Cunard's Queens Grill. In the last 4 months we have cruised on Saga,Cunard [Queens Grills] and Regent and when you can eat caviar, lobster, chateaubriand and [as i'm sure you know] many other luxury items any night of the week that you can say Saga's food is superior to Queens Grill is certainly not my conclusion, after all how much effort is required to go off menu and to ask for what you would like that evening if nothing on the Al a Carte menu take your fancy. While there is nothing wrong with the food at all on Saga, for me, it does not match the food served in Queens Grills. Post pandemic i don't think the dining experience in general on cruise lines [which is not just about the food] has been as good but do still think overall that Queens Grill is the best, obviously, like you not everyone will feel the same.

[FatBoy20]

9 hours ago, seasickphil said:

I know that food is very subjective but i could not possibly agree that Saga's food is comparable to, let alone better than food served in Cunard's Queens Grill. In the last 4 months we have cruised on Saga,Cunard [Queens Grills] and Regent and when you can eat caviar, lobster, chateaubriand and [as i'm sure you know] many other luxury items any night of the week that you can say Saga's food is superior to Queens Grill is certainly not my conclusion, after all how much effort is required to go off menu and to ask for what you would like that evening if nothing on the Al a Carte menu take your fancy. While there is nothing wrong with the food at all on Saga, for me, it does not match the food served in Queens Grills. Post pandemic i don't think the dining experience in general on cruise lines [which is not just about the food] has been as good but do still think overall that Queens Grill is the best, obviously, like you not everyone will feel the same.

And Queens Grill is more expensive than Saga. Remember you get what you pay for!.

[lincslady]

29 minutes ago, FatBoy20 said:

And Queens Grill is more expensive than Saga. Remember you get what you pay for!.

I don't think there is as much choice of eating places in QG on Cunard, and of course drinks are not included.  Not having been in QG ever, I can't compare actual meals; they may well be superior.

 

My last Cunard cruise was on Sagafjord, which of course became Saga Rose.

[Windsurfboy]

I've  had two Queens grill cruises total 28 days and one Saga 30 days this year . As I said I  had to send 3 QG meals back as inedible,  and often had to resort to the la carte , sole or lamb quite often. Cavair not the best and a bit of a gimmick and Chateaubriand doesn't turn me on. I ordered off menu a couple of times, one a simple risotto Milanese,  flavourless,  same for a simple Mac cheese,  asked for osso bucco but didn't have ingredients, but Cunard do an excellent curry.  My only dissappointment on Saga was liver, which last year was melt in mouth, this year more like pub food. Had lobster as often as needed in coast to coast. A suite on Saga is roughly same price as QG Saga a bit dearer but you get more. Remember whether you approve or not,  suites are not rationed to use of Speciality restaurants.

 

Of course non suites don't have as much access to speciality restaurants,  but then you must compare Saga food to Brittania in Cunard with no off menu ordering and a smaller menu. That's a clear win for Saga.

[Jammy Bun]

We tried Saga last February, and it’s not for us.  The food was dull - choice of desserts at lunchtime in the cafe for example consisted of an eclair, a jelly, a sponge pudding, a cake with buttercream decoration, and often a mousse or a rice pudding.  This was every day, the flavour might change, but the appearance was the same.  Everything seemed to be “British”. I don’t go on holiday to eat fish and chips - and they weren’t that great anyway! (OK I live at the seaside so am maybe spoiled 😏).

We rarely dined in the Main Dining Room, it’s not a pleasant space, crowded and very noisy, with no views of the sea.  On one occasion we arrived at 8pm to be told it was full, so we were directed upstairs to the cafe.  No self service buffet available in the evenings, and even when the buffet is open it’s all served to you - some like it, but I prefer to take exactly what I want not have a conversation with every server about my choices!

Other things we didn’t like included the uncovered pool area.  Saga made a huge mistake there, in not having a retractable roof.  On our cruise the area was often unusable, meaning other public areas were constantly crowded.  We never found anywhere peaceful (or comfortable) to sit and read.  
Our Saga transport was awful.  A shared Titan vehicle on the way to the ship, which was just about ok (though neither ‘luxury’ nor ‘chauffeur driven’ as advertised) and an old minibus on the way back in which we were seated facing the rear, knee to knee with strangers.  
We haven’t used P&O or Fred since 2016, tried Viking in 2017 and apart from the one Saga cruise this year have now spent about 12 weeks on various Viking ships.  We leave this week for 3 more weeks.  While we are able to fly we will stick with them, for us they are perfect.  
OK, I’ll stand back and await the flames…   🤪

[Interestedcruisefan]

On 12/15/2023 at 10:30 AM, Harry Peterson said:

Genuine question from someone thinking of defecting from P&O to Saga.

 

I’ve seen a lot of reports lately of cutbacks on Saga leading to poor or indifferent dining experiences, less than pleasant travel arrangements to and from ports and other general dissatisfaction. This is the way it went with P&O and Saga seemed an alternative - albeit at considerably higher prices.

 

What has really put me off Saga though, apart from but linked to the above, is their treatment earlier this year of their Saga Magazine life members. We paid a pretty hefty sum to Saga for the privilege of receiving Saga magazine for life. Earlier this year, though, Saga wrote to all the life members telling them that it was too expensive for them to carry on sending the magazine - to receive it in future we’d have to pay for it all over again every year. 
 

Given that they were quite happy to break their contract on this, I no longer feel I can trust them on insurance or cruises, and the cutbacks I read about all seem linked to their considerable financial difficulties. 
 

Looking for feedback really - what’s actually happening on the cruise front, what’s the impact of the cutbacks, and how are Saga reacting to issues raised? They wouldn’t budge on the broken life membership contract issue, and it concerns me that finance is now dictating outcomes.

Harry I actually think it's unfair to P and 0 to compare the two.

 

P and O have significantly reduced the prices of cruises in real terms in recent years whilst introducing bigger ships with more facilities

 

And on P and O there are plenty of opportunities to elevate your cruise experience for those who want to do so

 

Meanwhile Saga have  increased prices whilst standards have slipped (apparently)?

 

There's a big difference

 

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Bloodaxe]

5 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

I've  had two Queens grill cruises total 28 days and one Saga 30 days this year . As I said I  had to send 3 QG meals back as inedible,  and often had to resort to the la carte , sole or lamb quite often. Cavair not the best and a bit of a gimmick and Chateaubriand doesn't turn me on. I ordered off menu a couple of times, one a simple risotto Milanese,  flavourless,  same for a simple Mac cheese,  asked for osso bucco but didn't have ingredients, but Cunard do an excellent curry.  My only dissappointment on Saga was liver, which last year was melt in mouth, this year more like pub food. Had lobster as often as needed in coast to coast. A suite on Saga is roughly same price as QG Saga a bit dearer but you get more. Remember whether you approve or not,  suites are not rationed to use of Speciality restaurants.

 

Of course non suites don't have as much access to speciality restaurants,  but then you must compare Saga food to Brittania in Cunard with no off menu ordering and a smaller menu. That's a clear win for Saga.

 

 

Our one Saga cruise so far was in September, we found the food OK for the most part but not great, one of the best meals in the main dining room was the Liver.

In recent years we can only really compare  Saga with Azamara and to be honest Azamara would still be our line of choice but we are not fans of flying anymore which rules them out.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Bloodaxe

[twotravellersLondon]

1 hour ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Meanwhile Saga have  increased prices whilst standards have slipped (apparently)?

 

In the last year SAGA's have increased by 4.7%. That's less than the UK inflation rate... significantly less that the pension increased awarded to UK citizens and very significantly less that the UK retail price index. When inflation and incomes are taken into account... SAGAs prices are less in real terms now than they were this time last year.

 

So many comments on numerous sites by people who have never travelled on SAGA but are happy to trawl cyberspace and cobble together anything that amuses them when the reality is that... SAGAs ships are increasing full, SAGA is carrying more passengers than ever before and those passengers are willing to pay more per diem than they have ever done before. Add the increasingly eager wait for cruises to be released and compare SAGA with FOCLs which cost more for a entry level balcony cabin on a like for like basis... and that's why thousands of people, more than ever before, are sailing with SAGA and a third new ship is being discussed.

 

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

9 minutes ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

In the last year SAGA's have increased by 4.7%. That's less than the UK inflation rate... significantly less that the pension increased awarded to UK citizens and very significantly less that the UK retail price index. When inflation and incomes are taken into account... SAGAs prices are less in real terms now than they were this time last year.

 

So many comments on numerous sites by people who have never travelled on SAGA but are happy to trawl cyberspace and cobble together anything that amuses them when the reality is that... SAGAs ships are increasing full, SAGA is carrying more passengers than ever before and those passengers are willing to pay more per diem than they have ever done before. Add the increasingly eager wait for cruises to be released and compare SAGA with FOCLs which cost more for a entry level balcony cabin on a like for like basis... and that's why thousands of people, more than ever before, are sailing with SAGA and a third new ship is being discussed.

 

 

Do you think Saga passengers will be willing to keep paying more per diem than ever before if they continue to be sent Uber cars for their transfers?

 

Or isn't that reality?

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Harry Peterson]

13 minutes ago, twotravellersLondon said:

a third new ship is being discussed.

Really? All the news reports suggest they’re desperately trying to save the company from collapsing under its huge debt burden - not taking on yet more! That’s the reason for the cuts being discussed.

[Windsurfboy]

It is fair to compare Saga and P&O if you compare £ for £.

 

So for a Saga std cabin compare what £250 per person per night can get you on P&O

 

For Saga suite compare what £500 pppn can get you on P&O.

 

The P&O spend should include extras like travel , drink and speciality restaurants you need to get similiar offering. 

 

You then take into account the ambience,  which is a personal choice 

[Dermotsgirl]

I sailed for the first time with Saga last August.  We enjoyed the food, and the transfers were fine.

 

We had another Saga cruise already booked for next May, but we have cancelled it, and probably won't sail with Saga again.  The reasons for this are many, some linked to Saga and some linked to cruising in general, and  some of the reasons I'm not permitted to mention on Cruise Critic.

 

However, the main deal breaker with Saga was the way the dining is set up.  I just couldn't put up with those tables for 2 which are just a couple of inches away from its neighbour.  As a pair of introverts, my husband and myself didn't enjoy this one bit. I've spoken about this at length on a thread that I did on the P&O board.

 

We did think up strategies for making this better on the next cruise, but in the end decided to cancel, as it was too much effort, and there were other compelling reasons why we no longer wanted to cruise. 

 

[beaujolais]

4 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Really? All the news reports suggest they’re desperately trying to save the company from collapsing under its huge debt burden - not taking on yet more! That’s the reason for the cuts being discussed.

 

Where do you read your news reports Harry?

 

I know it's not in the great Saga magazine!!

[twotravellersLondon]

18 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Do you think Saga passengers will be willing to keep paying more per diem than ever before if they continue to be sent Uber cars for their transfers?

 

Or isn't that reality?

 

 

Given inflation and the rise in incomes... SAGA passengers are are paying less now than they did last year. We've had 8 SAGA transfers injuries the last year... not a single one was by Uber.

[Harry Peterson]

5 minutes ago, beaujolais said:

 

Where do you read your news reports Harry?

 

I know it's not in the great Saga magazine!!

 

It wouldn't be, would it?  😉  All good news in there - has the departure of the CEO featured yet? And why?  He's the one who ditched all their life membership commitments to save money.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/11/30/inside-scramble-save-saga-debt-mountain-euan-sutherland/

 

 

"The scramble to save Saga from sinking under a mountain of debt - Chief executive Euan Sutherland’s departure comes at a crucial juncture for the business"

 

[twotravellersLondon]

24 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Really? All the news reports suggest they’re desperately trying to save the company from collapsing under its huge debt burden - not taking on yet more! That’s the reason for the cuts being discussed.

 

Really? "All the new reports?"

 

We've seen a report in the FT and we know that you passed on details of a report in the Telegraph but we weren't aware of any others.

 

From what we understand the real issue is with the underwriting part of the SAGA operation which the company hoped to get rid of some time ago and then sell insurance as a broker as it used to do in the past... that deal on the underwriting fell through. 

 

Bit more complex that just a couple of ships.

Edited December 17, 2023 by twotravellersLondon

[Harry Peterson]

6 minutes ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

Really? "All the new reports?"

 

We've seen a report in the FT and we know that you passed on details of a report in the Telegraph but we weren't aware of any others.

A quick Google with the key words will find them - various news reports majoring on the debt problems. Sir Roger de Haan, Chairman, may be involved in negotiations, and I have to say it was a very different company when he owned and ran it. He marketed those broken life memberships, and I’m absolutely certain he wouldn’t have ditched all the commitments Saga signed up to. I wonder how much business that decision cost - anyone prepared to buy life memberships wasn’t exactly going to be short of available spending capacity.

[lincslady]

My Saga transport has always been with Titan (I understand  they are affiliated companies) but I have not been able to cruise since  2019, so I wonder if there has been some real change here, if some transport is as poor as it seems to be.  My transfers were always good to excellent.

[Harry Peterson]

7 minutes ago, lincslady said:

My Saga transport has always been with Titan (I understand  they are affiliated companies) but I have not been able to cruise since  2019, so I wonder if there has been some real change here, if some transport is as poor as it seems to be.  My transfers were always good to excellent.

The change seems to be fairly recent. Local friends of ours moved to Saga from P&O some time ago and until recently have always spoken well of it. Their last journey back however was horrendous, with a driver who spoke no English and had no idea of the route. All three passengers were terrified because of what can only be described as dangerous driving, with the driver constantly looking at and holding his phone to know where to go. My friend ended up giving him directions via Google Translate.

[FannyLiz]

4 minutes ago, lincslady said:

My Saga transport has always been with Titan (I understand  they are affiliated companies) but I have not been able to cruise since  2019, so I wonder if there has been some real change here, if some transport is as poor as it seems to be.  My transfers were always good to excellent.

My only 2 transfers (home and back, 75 miles each way) have both been via a local taxi firm. Both cars were a smart and shiny Mercedes, both drivers were prompt, helpful and the journey comfortable.  The driver outbound was using a watch and mobile phone to guide him to the port and I made Saga aware of this. It is their responsibility to pass that to the taxi company, who have a very good local rating. I don’t think they have a responsibility to pre-test every driver.
 

Frankly, for the ease of having my journey timing and arranging the responsibility of someone else I’d have happily gone in a bus.

 

The news of the Saga CEO’s departure featured in the ship’s daily newspaper on SoD as soon as it was made public.  I don’t read the Saga magazine but you can check if you wish as it is freely available on the Saga app and via your local library digital services.

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

57 minutes ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

 We've had 8 SAGA transfers injuries the last year.

I would seriously consider switching cruise lines if that happened to us

 

Lol

Edited December 17, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[FatBoy20]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

 

It wouldn't be, would it?  😉  All good news in there - has the departure of the CEO featured yet? And why?  He's the one who ditched all their life membership commitments to save money.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/11/30/inside-scramble-save-saga-debt-mountain-euan-sutherland/

 

 

"The scramble to save Saga from sinking under a mountain of debt - Chief executive Euan Sutherland’s departure comes at a crucial juncture for the business"

 

And yet Senior Staff on our last Saga Cruise in August openly stated Saga were considering purchasing a third ship!

[Harry Peterson]

1 minute ago, FatBoy20 said:

And yet Senior Staff on our last Saga Cruise in August openly stated Saga were considering purchasing a third ship!

Well they would, wouldn't they?  Saga staff, junior or senior, will naturally always talk up the company.  They're never, ever going to talk about the biggest problem they face - the huge debts.

[twotravellersLondon]

44 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I would seriously consider switching cruise lines if that happened to us

 

Lol

 

Isn't is wonderful that predictive text has provided such joy to so many people! 🤣😂

 

Just so there is no confusion...

 

We've had 8 SAGA transfers in the last year... and all have been excellent.