Saga cutting corners and going the way of P&O?

[Interestedcruisefan]

54 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Well they would, wouldn't they?  Saga staff, junior or senior, will naturally always talk up the company.  They're never, ever going to talk about the biggest problem they face - the huge debts.

TBF Harry I believe all the cruise lines are operating with huge debts right now

 

Aren't they?

[Harry Peterson]

10 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

TBF Harry I believe all the cruise lines are operating with huge debts right now

 

Aren't they?

Almost certainly so, and definitely in the case of Carnival. And it’s reflected in the share prices of course. Carnival down 69% in the last 5 years, and Saga 91%.

[Mollag]

3 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

It is fair to compare Saga and P&O if you compare £ for £.

 

So for a Saga std cabin compare what £250 per person per night can get you on P&O

 

For Saga suite compare what £500 pppn can get you on P&O.

 

The P&O spend should include extras like travel , drink and speciality restaurants you need to get similiar offering. 

 

You then take into account the ambience,  which is a personal choice 

Remembering a Saga standard balcony is better than a superior deluxe balcony on P&O as well, can’t comment on the suites 

[Glenndale]

11 hours ago, FatBoy20 said:

And Queens Grill is more expensive than Saga. Remember you get what you pay for!.

Not necessarily.

[twotravellersLondon]

1 hour ago, Mollag said:

Remembering a Saga standard balcony is better than a superior deluxe balcony on P&O as well, can’t comment on the suites 

 

You need to go further.

 

On SAGA you can see the show in the theatre on in the Britannia lounge every night... no need to book in advance... you can book on board for the specially restaurants and if you're willing to eat later you can have almost any evening... no need to be up in the middle of the night weeks before the cruise desperately trying to get a slot. The Lounge space on SAGA is freely open to all... it isn't taken up by bookable extras. And... there are no virtual queues. 

 

It's really difficult to quantify the value of removing the hassle. 

[Alchymist]

SAGA halted their efforts to sell the insurance business in September and in the meantime their cashflow looks quite disturbing. I sincerely hope that they will thrive, because they do offer a lot to us of senior years, even if there are concerns that should be addressed. If one looks at their revenue against earnings lover the last few years, they haven't made as much progress as the dreaded Carnival and it would be awful if the insurance business sank them. (Not the ships, of course.) Institutional holdings and insider holdings are pretty high, but not too sure if that is a good or bad thing at the moment. 

[seasickphil]

8 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Meanwhile Saga have  increased prices whilst standards have slipped (apparently)?

 

It would be interesting to know which cruise lines you think standards have not slipped post covid to pre covid? we have no allegiance to any one cruise line and have only cruised on Cunard x2, Regent x2  and Saga once since the pandemic but for us none of those cruises matched the ones we took on the same lines prior to covid.

[Jammy Bun]

7 minutes ago, seasickphil said:

 

It would be interesting to know which cruise lines you think standards have not slipped post covid to pre covid? we have no allegiance to any one cruise line and have only cruised on Cunard x2, Regent x2  and Saga once since the pandemic but for us none of those cruises matched the ones we took on the same lines prior to covid.

Viking remain the same post pandemic as they were before. 😊

[seasickphil]

17 minutes ago, Jammy Bun said:

Viking remain the same post pandemic as they were before. 😊

 

That's good to know we are back on Viking next year.

[LandC]

We’re interested in trying Viking (while we are still prepared to fly).

We like the decor, and the retractable roof over the pool is a bonus.
How does Viking compare in terms of quality of food, service, lecturers and entertainment? 
I hope you don’t mind me asking the question on this thread- it is going off topic somewhat!

[Harry Peterson]

1 hour ago, LandC said:

We’re interested in trying Viking (while we are still prepared to fly).

We like the decor, and the retractable roof over the pool is a bonus.
How does Viking compare in terms of quality of food, service, lecturers and entertainment? 
I hope you don’t mind me asking the question on this thread- it is going off topic somewhat!

I’d be interested too. I’m looking for an alternative to P&O, and it was until recently going to be Saga.

[arlowood]

1 hour ago, LandC said:

We’re interested in trying Viking (while we are still prepared to fly).

We like the decor, and the retractable roof over the pool is a bonus.
How does Viking compare in terms of quality of food, service, lecturers and entertainment? 
I hope you don’t mind me asking the question on this thread- it is going off topic somewhat!

We cruised for many years with P&O and were happy with the experience up until a couple of years ago when there was a distinct change from the "full service" experience to the pared back, nickel and diming approach that really put us off.

We have sailed on 5 Viking river and 4 ocean cruises in recent years and would thoroughly recommend them to anyone who is happy to fly, either short or long haul, to join the ships. The food and service are exceptional in our opinion. However on our last cruise we had the stress of flight delays and a very long return journey from Athens back to Birmingham. For that reason we have decided to give Saga our business for the foreseeable future.

 

Many UK based Viking customers have petitioned them to consider sailing round trips out of a UK port but so far that does not look likely. However they have several new ocean ships already planned - so we live in hope.

 

My opinion is that if you are prepared to accept the hassle of fling in the current uncertain times then I would recommend giving Viking a go. I don't think you will be disappointed.

[Windsurfboy]

We still fly long haul, but not for cruises. Cruises have the benefit of in the same time it would take us to get to airport we are getting on ship.

 

It's a great pity Viking don't cruise out of UK, good high quality competition always helps. Even if you like Saga like we do, you will benefit from good competition. Cunard , P&O , FredO, Ambassador aren't in same market as Saga so Saga has no direct competitors which is a pity. 

[Jammy Bun]

Having to fly to join the ship is the only downside to cruising with Viking.  Living in the north of England usually means we must take two flights to get to the port, and consequently the chances of delays is increased.  For this reason we have chosen to fly from Heathrow to Athens later this week, BUT the big decider on choosing this particular 3 week cruise was that the ship sails back to Tilbury.  Our local long-distance transfer company will meet us at the terminal. 

 

To answer your questions: 

The quality and variety of the food is excellent, and the places to eat offer far more choice than Saga.  And better opening hours. AND you have a sea view in all dining venues.  Even the 24hour room service is great.  The buffet serves not only the same meals as the restaurant in the evening, but also freshly made sushi, seafood, an Asian selection, and beautiful desserts and gelato.  The only place on Saga that we had a similar experience to Viking was in the Nepalese restaurant.

 

Service throughout the ship is exceptional.  We did experience poor service in the bars on SoA in February, several times in the big lounge had to go and find someone to serve us. 

 

The lectures are also great. (Though we did have one guy on Saga who was also great, credit where credit's due).  Their port talks aren't the usual selling opportunity, purely aimed at those doing the tours, but give you good advice about local transport, and other DIY info.  Viking employ a resident historian who gives some talks and has smaller special interest groups for those who are interested.

 

Entertainment I would say is probably Viking's weakest area.  It suits us, but is generally very low key.  Light classical music or guitar in some venues, light entertainment in the 'theatre' most nights, which consists of four singers with a 'show' , or maybe the house band, or maybe the cruise director if they've got that background.   They have 'movies under the stars' occasionally, on the pool deck, where you lie on loungers and use headphones so you don't disturb anyone else.  Brilliant with a cocktail, a tub of popcorn, and maybe a rug if it's a bit chilly.

 

Hope this gives you a flavour of why we were so disappointed with Saga.  I'm not saying we'll never cruise with them again, but it hopefully won't be for a while yet.  I do understand that for many (especially solo travellers) it is a good fit.  

[Bloodaxe]

17 hours ago, Alchymist said:

SAGA halted their efforts to sell the insurance business in September and in the meantime their cashflow looks quite disturbing. I sincerely hope that they will thrive, because they do offer a lot to us of senior years, even if there are concerns that should be addressed. If one looks at their revenue against earnings lover the last few years, they haven't made as much progress as the dreaded Carnival and it would be awful if the insurance business sank them. (Not the ships, of course.) Institutional holdings and insider holdings are pretty high, but not too sure if that is a good or bad thing at the moment.

 

An experience a few years ago turned me away form Saga insurance, someone ran into the back of my parked car doing a few hundred pounds of damage.

At the time the car was nearly new so I went to the local VW main dealer, they took one look at my insurance and said sorry we do not deal with Saga they take far to long to pay up.

They would repair the car but I would have to pay and make the claim with Saga myself

Luckily the 3rd party insurers paid up and the garage were happy to deal direct with them.

I no longer have any insurance with Saga and other than the Included  cruise insurance and never will.

[seasickphil]

5 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

We still fly long haul, but not for cruises. Cruises have the benefit of in the same time it would take us to get to airport we are getting on ship.

 

It's funny how different things impact on peoples decisions, the reason we don't sail more with Saga is that they do only depart from the UK. My username might indicate why sailing out of the UK is not so appealing, with having to deal with BoB or even the North Sea we much prefer to fly and embark where  we can avoid those areas.

[Glenndale]

17 hours ago, Jammy Bun said:

Viking remain the same post pandemic as they were before. 😊

I wish they had some cruises from and back to UK 😕

[JoJo1947]

23 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

Well they would, wouldn't they?  Saga staff, junior or senior, will naturally always talk up the company.  They're never, ever going to talk about the biggest problem they face - the huge debts.

Not as large  a debt as other Companies. Look at Royal Caribbean 

[Medeba]

We liked our one Viking Ocean cruise very much (Northern Lights Jan 2019) but we paid more per night for that cruise than we have ever done and that's nearly five years ago!  I would like to cruise with them again but we too are no longer keen on flying (but would do it for a special cruise).  I haven't checked recently but I think Saga's prices are a fair amount less than Viking's, especially if you book at pre registration time.  Saga's entertainment is definitely better and it is 'all inclusive' which Viking isn't.  I do prefer the Viking ships - they are so stylish - but, overall, I think Saga is better value for money. We do miss the international passenger vibe on Saga, though.

[nosapphire]

Our first cruise was June 2003, our first Saga cruise was July 2006.

Pretty much every cruise we have been on, Saga or others, there is somebody grimly shaking their head and muttering about standards slipping, service not what it used to be.

I don't know if it is rose-tinted glasses making the previous cruise seem better than it was, or simply the fact that all companies in all businesses are constantly trying to cut costs, with some cost-cutting being more noticeable and less desirable than others - but certainly I recall a reall crescendo of complaints about the dinner service on the Saga Sapphire back in 2015. (As far as I was concerned it was all fine).

It does sometimes seem that many people want haute cuisine food, but to be delivered at the same speed as a burger bar.

Yes, I think some things are not as good as they used to be. Some things have improved.

As far as the food goes, Saga (to the best of my knowledge) do not have a fixed menu or a fixed recipe system, it is up to the chef on each ship to decide what is to be served and how it is to be cooked. Add to this the natural variation in different supply batches, and would explain why sometimes the food is not/does not seem as good.

On the Discovery in June this year I had an "always available" steak, which was tender but totally tasteless. On the Adventure this month I had another "always available" steak, which was both tender and a burst of excellent flavour (got onion rings on the Adventure, too).

++++++

The shared transport - no problems outward or return. There are not enough Saga/Titan vehicles to carry everybody,  much transport has to be subbed out,which may get re-subcontracted.

The Saga website FAQ does indicate that for shared transport a people carrier/MPV will be used, so if a saloon car turns up for a shared journey then something has gone wrong at the re-subcontracting stage and an urgent call to Saga (instead of getting in the car) is needed. I find it difficult to believe that Saga would knowingly use Uber, hope anyone who got Uber has made a formal complaint and demanded an explaination.

+++++++++

The magazine - while it does not affect me, I think that it may go down as one of the most short-sighted decisions made by Saga (and they have made quite a few over the years). I doubt that the perceived savings will be anything like enough to make the fallout worthwhile - I heard that there was a class action for breach of contract going on.

+++++++++++

The comments about Sandnes instead of Stavanger. There were quite a lot of other comments about this,affected quite a lot of lines, not just Saga.(think there was a thread about this on the HAL forum, plus people on Fred Olsen were asking on Tripadvisor. And same thing last year happened to Cunard.I think it is something to do with how many ships are expected at any one time.

++++++++

Debt - anyone who purchased a couple of brand new ships just before the world closed down is going to have a stonking debt to somebody. I think Saga renegotiated the mortgages to allow a longer payment period. Not heard anything about any more new ships, river or ocean.

++++++++

The comment about car insurance surprised me - 2 years ago somebody drove into the side of our car and we took it to our local independent specialist. We said we had still to notify the insurance and argue for it being done outside of their insurance network, and when we told him it was Saga he said "Saga are normally pretty good to deal with". Once we had submitted details and got the claim reference, the independent handled the entire claim directly with Saga. No problems. Which has nothing whatseover to do with the cruise arm, anyway.

++

Yes, I think that there is indeed a lot of cost cutting going on.All companies do this (they call it "efficiencies") Whether it is affecting standards - not sure. Some certainly do; what bright spark thought telling you to take a photo of the map on your TV was a substitute for a printed paper map? Especially when the TV map does not even have road names!

 

[Bloodaxe]

I fully understand my comment about Saga Car Insurance had nothing to do with the cruise arm of Saga.

I was responding to the poster taking about Saga insurance, obviously your claim with Car Insurance went much better than mine.

The attitude of the Volkswagen garage really surprised me at the time.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Bloodaxe

[Denarius]

On 12/18/2023 at 6:16 PM, Medeba said:

We liked our one Viking Ocean cruise very much (Northern Lights Jan 2019) but we paid more per night for that cruise than we have ever done and that's nearly five years ago!  I would like to cruise with them again but we too are no longer keen on flying (but would do it for a special cruise).  I haven't checked recently but I think Saga's prices are a fair amount less than Viking's, especially if you book at pre registration time.  Saga's entertainment is definitely better and it is 'all inclusive' which Viking isn't.  I do prefer the Viking ships - they are so stylish - but, overall, I think Saga is better value for money. We do miss the international passenger vibe on Saga, though.

I would seriously consider Viking ocean cruises if they were solo friendly, but regretably they are not. They have no single cabins and charge a 100% single supplement for sole occupacy of a twin, ie double fare. Saga meanwhile have 100 single cabins on each of their ships with an effective single supplement (vis a vis a twin) of 40% to 50%.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Denarius

[GerryL13]

On 12/17/2023 at 3:52 PM, Jammy Bun said:

Viking remain the same post pandemic as they were before. 😊

I am currently on Viking Star. My first time with the line. There are plenty of passengers willing to talk about Viking not being up to its previous standards. Excursions that miss the mark. Menu changes. I’m enjoying my experience as much as I did my initial Saga experience earlier this year. 

[GerryL13]

22 hours ago, Denarius said:

I would seriously consider Viking ocean cruises if they were solo friendly, but regretably they are not. They have no single cabins and charge a 100% single supplement for sole occupacy of a twin, ie double fare. Saga meanwhile have 100 single cabins on each of their ships with an effective single supplement (vis a vis a twin) of 40% to 50%.

I booked with Saga because I could not bring myself to pay double for a Viking ocean cruise. Have finally managed to get on a Viking cruise because I got a great deal by booking at the last minute (4 weeks prior to embarkation) on a Christmas sailing with plenty of empty cabins. I understand there are more than 30 solos on this trip, and most I have met signed up close to departure.

I can be flexible and hope to find future last-minute deals with Viking, but I plan to continue booking with Saga.

 

— From the Viking Star approaching Maui.

[Glenndale]

On 12/16/2023 at 11:50 PM, seasickphil said:

I know that food is very subjective but i could not possibly agree that Saga's food is comparable to, let alone better than food served in Cunard's Queens Grill. In the last 4 months we have cruised on Saga,Cunard [Queens Grills] and Regent and when you can eat caviar, lobster, chateaubriand and [as i'm sure you know] many other luxury items any night of the week that you can say Saga's food is superior to Queens Grill is certainly not my conclusion, after all how much effort is required to go off menu and to ask for what you would like that evening if nothing on the Al a Carte menu take your fancy. While there is nothing wrong with the food at all on Saga, for me, it does not match the food served in Queens Grills. Post pandemic i don't think the dining experience in general on cruise lines [which is not just about the food] has been as good but do still think overall that Queens Grill is the best, obviously, like you not everyone will feel the same.

I’m just back from a Saga cruise on Discovery and have to agree. Food quality is declining, even in specialities.

Too much emphasis on included alcohol at the expense of the food.

Who wants or needs sparkling wine at breakfast?

Ordering off menu in QG I can have an individually prepared dish every night if I so desired.

Lead in QG prices are roughly comparable to the cost of a deluxe balcony on Saga.