Syd’s: lines on Prima CRAZY

[UKstages]

there is lots of confusion here.  music licensing is completely different than buying the rights to perform a show that pays tribute to the fictional syd norman. when you see a "syd's" show in the pour house, that is in fact a theatrical presentation, just like "six" or "jersey boys" and there are rights owners of that "show" other than fleetwood mac, even though some of their songs might be used in the production. 

 

similarly, "broadway unplugged" is a generic collection of broadway show tunes... they didn't seek permission to perform those tunes nor did they need to... the performance rights are covered by umbrella licensing through one or more of the three licensing agencies... the same as the recorded music in the elevators and in the casino and the music played live in the atrium.

 

with regard to the syd's shows, chris d’arenso and the team who put together those shows and the concept are the rights holders and sign the contract. they (not NCL) may have negotiated with the fleetwood mac folks, but i'm not sure they would have had to. they're just singing a bunch of fleetwood mac songs. just as the folks in the atrium sing a bunch of tunes by cole porter, elton john and paul mccartney and others.

 

NCL is free to play and perform fleetwood mac songs or madonna songs or taylor swift songs throughout the ship. they are (presumably) hooked up through one or more of the three music licensing agencies which collect payments on its members' behalf. there is nothing to stop NCL from having an evening of fleetwood mac songs in the theatre. it just can't be a syd norman's show, as per the contract. as far as that contract goes, typically there is language in there that governs the terms of a renewal and the right for either side to end the agreement with X months of notice.

[cruiseny4life]

On 1/21/2024 at 10:20 AM, graphicguy said:

Found this......Looks like Syd's is wider on Prima but not as deep.  But, it's a video, so I don't know that they capture the entire place.....good idea of the music they play...which is right in my wheelhouse!

 

 

Ok....you're my hero for the day! Thank you for finding and sharing this. I've often wondered what I was missing. Unlike most posters, I'm not a huge fan. I don't mind Sail Away, but the performance honestly was putting me to sleep...maybe it was the salad I just had for lunch, but I found this a boring performance video. 

 

Oh well - plenty of thermal spa'ing for me to do in the evenings while others are watching the show. 

[Kenlorz]

On 1/19/2024 at 8:09 AM, EllieinNJ said:

Why can't NCL put the Rumors show in the main theater for at least one night?  I know the atmosphere wouldn't be the same as Syds but it would allow many of us who cannot stand in line to see it..  They did it with the Beatles shows on the Joy last year for those who could not get into the Cavern Club.

According to something I saw from NCL directly, it has to do with the licensing of the songs. They can only have a certain amount of seating to stay legit and legal with the material

[MamaToMany]

Fresh off Prima today. Maybe a different slant, maybe not totally speaking to the content of this discussion. BUT. I wandered into Syd’s every night they had shows this last week. I was always able to find a place to stand and enjoy the music. I stood at the bar for the Rumors show and loved it. Were sight lines perfect? No. But they were pretty damn good. The show was crazy fun. There was definitely some of the egregious line cutting happening- folks leaving one or two folks in line to save spots for 6-8 people. Because I don’t absolutely require a chair, I was able to ignore this and show up around 15 minutes before showtime. Just enough time to score a drink and be ready to enjoy. While the venue isn’t perfect, I walked into and listened to every show I wanted to, and at the times I chose. Ideal? No. Fun for a rocking good time? Absolutely yes.

[Fogfog]

On 1/18/2024 at 9:48 PM, ontheweb said:

And I did get to speak to 2 of the singers relating some of my experiences at the original Woodstock festival in 1969. I was originally approached by one of them who liked the Grateful Dead tee shirt I was wearing, and said they were her favorite group.

I am sorry my concert Ts from my teen years are long gone--though they wouldn't fit 🙃 However some were from concerts with bragging rights.  

[Fogfog]

On 1/19/2024 at 10:03 AM, ColdCruise said:

makes that Rumors show an expensive ticket - 🤣

 

The Rumors set was good but not mind blowing, definitely not as good as the original tour. And that entire concert was about the price of lunch at a chain restaurant today - inflation !

The Rumors album-- I still have mine.

When I bought it, also bought Aerosmith's Toys in the Attic and Led Zep Zoso...   

Where did those days go?

 

 

Consider this-- real music of our era is now "cruise ship music"!  Yikes. 😶

 

Edited January 27 by Fogfog

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Fogfog said:

I am sorry my concert Ts from my teen years are long gone--though they wouldn't fit 🙃 However some were from concerts with bragging rights.  

Actually, the Grateful Dead tee shirt I was wearing was a recent birthday present from my wife. She bought it at the Museum at Bethel Woods. Bethel Woods is the venue where the original Woodstock festival in 1969 occurred. One of the singers from Syd's came over and said they were her favorite group. I related where I got the shirt, and told her a Woodstock story. She said she really enjoyed the story.

 

The Bob Marley tee shirt I wore earlier in the cruise was purchased in Jamaica on a cruise in 2013.

[Fogfog]

@ontheweb  nice. I had some great ones, including JethroTull from a concert in NYC. They were more souveniers than anything though wore them a bit. They were cheaply made back then and shrunk like crazy. Got donated to Goodwill etc as my mother helped me clear out closet etc (probably after college when moving out)  Just not fwd thinking enough to hold on to them

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, Fogfog said:

@ontheweb  nice. I had some great ones, including JethroTull from a concert in NYC. They were more souveniers than anything though wore them a bit. They were cheaply made back then and shrunk like crazy. Got donated to Goodwill etc as my mother helped me clear out closet etc (probably after college when moving out)  Just not fwd thinking enough to hold on to them

I once had a Jerry Garcia shirt that I wore until there were just too many holes in it. It was manufactured by a company Not Fade Away that was owned by a local. He was actually a good friend of one of my younger brothers, and also his father had been my little league coach.

 

Sometimes, someone would look at me when I was wearing that shirt, and ask if it was me. I would say no, my eye color is different, my hair is not gray (now it is), and most importantly I am still alive!

Edited January 27 by ontheweb
added second paragraph

[stefmaia]

Getting into Syd Norman's early is no longer a perk in the Haven. I asked about it on the Escape New Year cruise and was told by the concierge that they had received a memo from HQ saying that it was no longer to be offered.

I was bummed to say the least, and I did mention it in my feedback at the end of the cruise, as one of the reasons that I pay extra to book Haven class is so that I don't have to worry about getting into shows etc.

[Panhandle Couple]

1 hour ago, stefmaia said:

Getting into Syd Norman's early is no longer a perk in the Haven. I asked about it on the Escape New Year cruise and was told by the concierge that they had received a memo from HQ saying that it was no longer to be offered.

I was bummed to say the least, and I did mention it in my feedback at the end of the cruise, as one of the reasons that I pay extra to book Haven class is so that I don't have to worry about getting into shows etc.

I was wondering why I couldn't piggyback onto the Haven line anymore.

[rendal]

Does the NCL Encore have a Syds?  How are the lines on this ship? ? Leaving in two weeks!

[KeithJenner]

On 1/27/2024 at 11:35 AM, Fogfog said:

The Rumors album-- I still have mine.

When I bought it, also bought Aerosmith's Toys in the Attic and Led Zep Zoso...   

Where did those days go?

 

 

Consider this-- real music of our era is now "cruise ship music"!  Yikes. 😶

 

“Real music” is being played every night in small venues around the world.

 

Unfortunately hardly anyone notices it because the media is telling everyone to look the wrong way.

[KeithJenner]

7 hours ago, rendal said:

Does the NCL Encore have a Syds?  How are the lines on this ship? ? Leaving in two weeks!

No, the area where Syds is on other Breakaway or Breakaway plus ships is the Cavern on the Encore.

[graphicguy]

On 1/27/2024 at 2:00 PM, stefmaia said:

Getting into Syd Norman's early is no longer a perk in the Haven. I asked about it on the Escape New Year cruise and was told by the concierge that they had received a memo from HQ saying that it was no longer to be offered.

I was bummed to say the least, and I did mention it in my feedback at the end of the cruise, as one of the reasons that I pay extra to book Haven class is so that I don't have to worry about getting into shows etc.

Trying to remember....does the Escape even have a Syd Norman's?  

[bkrickles1]

8 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Trying to remember....does the Escape even have a Syd Norman's?  

It does now.

It didn't when I sailed her in 2018. 

My daughter was on Escape this past May and said Syd's was there and she went a few times.

Said my wife and I would love it, which was an impetus for us to book Getaway for April!

[graphicguy]

7 minutes ago, bkrickles1 said:

It does now.

It didn't when I sailed her in 2018. 

My daughter was on Escape this past May and said Syd's was there and she went a few times.

Said my wife and I would love it, which was an impetus for us to book Getaway for April!

OK...that makes sense.  I've never recalled reading it had a Syd's until now.

 

It's a great show.  Worth standing in line to go see.

 

As far as the Concierge not being able to escort anyone to the show, I have done it with a concierge on two different ships.  My guess, the concierge(s) don't want to be bothered on the Escape.  I do believe they have a lot of latitude on what they will and won't do.  If they won't, I believe that's a personal choice on their part and not something "corporate" would get involved with given the Concierges escort people all the time.

[bkrickles1]

2 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

OK...that makes sense.  I've never recalled reading it had a Syd's until now.

 

It's a great show.  Worth standing in line to go see.

My guess is we'll make it to each of the different shows they do there.

It'll be me, my wife and daughter and we all love live music.

Standing in line is not an issue for us. I'm the one that waits while my girls wander around and bring me drinks every 6 1/2 minutes. Lmao!!

We waited on line at the Cavern Club on Joy for one of the Beatles shows and on other nights I just walked in and stood towards the back.

After being on 3 sailings in a row with the Cavern Club, we are really excited to experience Syd's for the first time.

And, Fleetwood Mac Rumours was the first album that I ever purchased back in 1977 and it holds a special place in my heart as one of the greatest rock albums of all time!

[graphicguy]

17 minutes ago, bkrickles1 said:

My guess is we'll make it to each of the different shows they do there.

It'll be me, my wife and daughter and we all love live music.

Standing in line is not an issue for us. I'm the one that waits while my girls wander around and bring me drinks every 6 1/2 minutes. Lmao!!

We waited on line at the Cavern Club on Joy for one of the Beatles shows and on other nights I just walked in and stood towards the back.

After being on 3 sailings in a row with the Cavern Club, we are really excited to experience Syd's for the first time.

And, Fleetwood Mac Rumours was the first album that I ever purchased back in 1977 and it holds a special place in my heart as one of the greatest rock albums of all time!

I enjoyed the Beatles shows in the Cavern Club.  I liked Syd's better.  The Rumours show is just one of them.  The others the group performs there are every bit as good.

[Discopij]

So from what i gather from this thread, I will be able to walk into Syd's on the Breakaway during a performance as long as i'm willing to stand ... and maybe have an obstructed view.  Sounds good to me - I would want to stand anyway if the music is great!

[TenForward]

On 1/19/2024 at 10:24 AM, graphicguy said:

Point being, I don't see how anyone can charge copyright fees based on the number of people who can hear the performance.  It would be impossible to enforce.

 

Churches actually have to do this.  They pay an annual copyright fee for music based on membership size (or more precisely, weekly attendance).   I forget what it is - something like $110.00 for 1-20 members and goes up with each increment.   NCL may have to do something similar based on venue size.  And at much higher cost I would imagine. 

[graphicguy]

8 minutes ago, TenForward said:

 

Churches actually have to do this.  They pay an annual copyright fee for music based on membership size (or more precisely, weekly attendance).   I forget what it is - something like $110.00 for 1-20 members and goes up with each increment.   NCL may have to do something similar based on venue size.  And at much higher cost I would imagine. 

Interesting. My church (Catholic) hymns are many times hundreds of years old.  My guess is the authors of those hymns are long gone.  So, not likely to command any fees!

 

Just another data point!

[Panhandle Couple]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

Interesting. My church (Catholic) hymns are many times hundreds of years old.  My guess is the authors of those hymns are long gone.  So, not likely to command any fees!

 

Just another data point!

Because anything composed before 1925 is in public domain.  Free use.

 

And after that...its complicated.  The writing and release (sheet music) is similar but different from the RECORDING of that song, including derivatives.

 

Hence, Bob Dylan's "All Along the Watchtower" is copyrighted to him, and it is possible Jimi Hendrix's recorded version is copyrighted to Jimi, not Bob. (just an example) 

 

https://library.osu.edu/site/publicdomain/2020/07/27/when-does-music-enter-the-public-domain-in-the-united-states/

[TenForward]

4 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Interesting. My church (Catholic) hymns are many times hundreds of years old.  My guess is the authors of those hymns are long gone.  So, not likely to command any fees!

 

Just another data point!

Ours are very old as well (Methodist). I would bet your church pays an annual fee to CCLI.  I always wondered about too since they're all long gone.  

 

Edit:  it might have to do with the hymnal... Whoever compiled and printed may get that fee.

 

 

Edited January 30 by TenForward

[graphicguy]

You got me searching…found this…

 

“Songs with all three parts - tune, text, and arrangement - dated prior to 1929 (1928 or earlier) are in the public domain. Any part of any song (text, tune, arrangement) dated 1929 or after is under copyright.”