Norwegians shocking demise of quality on all fronts

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, UKstages said:

and now, switching gears... just a general question... how do all you guys and gals in business school and those of you with your fancy MBAs and your big deal jobs in finance and you guys and gals who hold executive positions in the cruise industry who know the business inside and out... how do you find the time to cut class or take time away from your meetings and your mergers and your acquisitions to share your in-depth knowledge on cruise critic?

I'm retired so I have sufficient time to post on CC.  I would share my experience but internet resumes are worthless since anyone can claim any level of experience they want.

[Ozzieru1e]

10 hours ago, CWMixer said:

Just back from a 7D cruise on Epic, and reading through this thread. 

3 cruises in past 3 years (Breakaway, Bliss, Joy).

Any noticeable declines in quality compared to prior 3?

Yes.

Any approaching a "shocking demise", individually or collectively?

Absolutely not.

However, NCL pricing on future cruises can be "shocking".

Our 02/23 cruise on Joy vs 02/25 on Joy, with exact same itinerary and room, is up 68%.

No thanks (even if hash browns AND cookies come back).

 

Approximately a month ago NCL Joy Haven suites were at a standstill for May 2024 cruise until a few recent price drops.  As a result, of the 112 Haven suites available on the Joy only 22 remain open now for booking.  I learned not to book cruises too early because the high prices will reduce over time to encourage cruisers to book.  The disadvantage is the better cabin selection/location will be limited.  Those who don’t want to settle for leftover cabins will pay a higher price but the choice is an individual decision. Rest assured NCL will sail with a full ship.  Prices are going to go up everywhere because nothing stays the same.  My last cruise was on NCL Escape in 2019 so I will not let anything spoil my upcoming NCL Joy cruise in May 2024.  My past NCL cruises were good and I expect this one will be also😎 

[dexddd]

18 hours ago, bkrickles1 said:

Where's all the chatter you mention?

Like you I've never stayed in the Haven, but I've been on these forums for years and have read much of what's posted here, and the vast majority of people love their experiences in the Haven and many wouldn't cruise NCL without it.

And before you argue the point, the one thing that confirms what I'm saying is that the Haven sells out virtually every sailing. Sometimes that's because of upgrades but it proves the popularity and the willingness of many to pay an awfully high price for it.

And it's probably not the elevators and embark/debark perks that keeps them coming back. From what I've read the Haven restaurant is great and I'm sure people love their own Observation Lounge on the ships that have that venue.

Of course it isn't the elevators because those are only on the newest ships.  Special embark is only on first day, none of the ports.

[cruiseny4life]

13 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

I'm retired so I have sufficient time to post on CC.  I would share my experience but internet resumes are worthless since anyone can claim any level of experience they want.

I get what you mean by internet resumes. Even though you and I disagree on some topics (we do agree too), I would still believe whatever internet resume you provide. There are other posters that I trust as well. And, obviously a few...well, I wouldn't trust. Call me naive, but I'm here believing in the best in people.

[Miss Ellsworth]

5 hours ago, Ozzieru1e said:

Approximately a month ago NCL Joy Haven suites were at a standstill for May 2024 cruise until a few recent price drops.  As a result, of the 112 Haven suites available on the Joy only 22 remain open now for booking.  I learned not to book cruises too early because the high prices will reduce over time to encourage cruisers to book.  The disadvantage is the better cabin selection/location will be limited.  Those who don’t want to settle for leftover cabins will pay a higher price but the choice is an individual decision. Rest assured NCL will sail with a full ship.  Prices are going to go up everywhere because nothing stays the same.  My last cruise was on NCL Escape in 2019 so I will not let anything spoil my upcoming NCL Joy cruise in May 2024.  My past NCL cruises were good and I expect this one will be also😎 

I'm wondering if there's a shortcut to figuring out how many cabins of a certain type are open. I don't know of any way except to do dummy bookings for each cabin type and then check for open cabins for each type and on each deck one by one. Do you have an easier way?  Thx

[Grammymongi]

5 minutes ago, Miss Ellsworth said:

I'm wondering if there's a shortcut to figuring out how many cabins of a certain type are open. I don't know of any way except to do dummy bookings for each cabin type and then check for open cabins for each type and on each deck one by one. Do you have an easier way?  Thx

I don’t know an easier way but would also love to know of a shortcut if there is one. 

[QuestionEverything]

It is up to the consumer to decide when to patronize and when not too.

Corporations adore the "obedient consumer" who will continue to purchase despite price increases and degradation of product. We see much of this behavior post covid with hotel chains, cruising, air etc - ALL of whom have significantly increased costs and downgraded the product experience.

This is in part "mass manipulation" of their ongoing customers to ensure they obediently find a way to rationalize their continued purchasing - think of the use of "free" in cruise advertising...........................

There are always obedient consumers and they are relied upon - we see said individuals on these boards.

For the first time since 1989, I have 0 cruises booked, but have 2 high end escorted land trips with private guide and vehicles also included.

If you patronize in these circumstances, you give permission to the supplier to continue the practice..............................

 

[UKstages]

oh, there is A LOT of patronizing on cruise critic.
 

i see it in almost every thread.

[DCGuy64]

17 hours ago, CWMixer said:

Just back from a 7D cruise on Epic, and reading through this thread. 

3 cruises in past 3 years (Breakaway, Bliss, Joy).

Any noticeable declines in quality compared to prior 3?

Yes.

Any approaching a "shocking demise", individually or collectively?

Absolutely not.

However, NCL pricing on future cruises can be "shocking".

Our 02/23 cruise on Joy vs 02/25 on Joy, with exact same itinerary and room, is up 68%.

No thanks (even if hash browns AND cookies come back).

 

Wow, 68% is quite a jump! By chance, were you able to make an apples-to-apples comparison? You mention the same itinerary and room, but what about the booking time frame? Were both cruises booked around the same time? My understanding that is that prices for the same itinerary and room can fluctuate depending on if the cabin is booked 2 years prior, 1 year, 6 months, 3 months, etc. Also, I understand the Joy just completed a dry dock in January. Maybe prices for the February 2025 sailing rose due to that.

[CWMixer]

5 hours ago, Ozzieru1e said:

Approximately a month ago NCL Joy Haven suites were at a standstill for May 2024 cruise until a few recent price drops.  As a result, of the 112 Haven suites available on the Joy only 22 remain open now for booking.  I learned not to book cruises too early because the high prices will reduce over time to encourage cruisers to book.  The disadvantage is the better cabin selection/location will be limited.  Those who don’t want to settle for leftover cabins will pay a higher price but the choice is an individual decision. Rest assured NCL will sail with a full ship.  Prices are going to go up everywhere because nothing stays the same.  My last cruise was on NCL Escape in 2019 so I will not let anything spoil my upcoming NCL Joy cruise in May 2024.  My past NCL cruises were good and I expect this one will be also😎 

First, enjoy your cruise! Joy is our favorite ship.

Second, completely agree with your comments.

We have 3 more NCL cruises booked over the next 18 months: one has gone up 12% in the past 3 months, two haven't changed in over 6 months.  

We enjoyed the Joy cruise I referenced so much we were considering going on it again next year, until we saw the price jump.  We'll keep watching it, and fully expect it to be a higher price than the last one, just not nearly 70%.  We doubt it will come down to a 'reasonable' (to us) increase.

We'll continue to look for specific cruises (ships & itinerary) that interest us and will book when comfortable with the value: it's just getting harder to find those cruises.

[CWMixer]

14 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Wow, 68% is quite a jump! By chance, were you able to make an apples-to-apples comparison? You mention the same itinerary and room, but what about the booking time frame? Were both cruises booked around the same time? My understanding that is that prices for the same itinerary and room can fluctuate depending on if the cabin is booked 2 years prior, 1 year, 6 months, 3 months, etc. Also, I understand the Joy just completed a dry dock in January. Maybe prices for the February 2025 sailing rose due to that.

I agree with your points on pricing trends, but obviously I can only see pricing for the 2/25 cruise as of today for comparison: I'll keep watching it.

(In the dry dock  they added ~40 (revenue generating) balcony staterooms in what was part of the observation lounge.  The point could possibly be made that those additional rooms should result in an overall fare reduction).

The 2/23 cruise was booked ~6 months prior to final payment.  I tracked pricing and re-booked a couple of times prior to final payment.  Price fluctuation overall was ~15% range, generally lowering as final payment date approached as we've found to be typical.

As of this morning, it looks like ~70% of the rooms in this category are still available, so it's pretty certain there will be some price adjustments over the coming months. But with current pricing nearly 70% higher than the same sailing 24 mos earlier, I just don't expect NCL to lower it to a 'reasonable' (to us, anyway) increase level, say in the ~20-25% range.  

Someone who's looking at this 2/25 cruise, with no reference point of prior pricing, may however consider it a good deal.

[graphicguy]

I had quoted balcony cabin fares earlier in this thread.  I was curious about what I was paying 5 years ago (based on quotes I received).  I've had to redact portions of the quotes below because it shows who my TA is, which CC does not allow.

 

But, fares 5 years ago are about on par to what they are today.  This was a quote from February 2019....so, almost exactly 5 years ago.  Balcony cabin.

 

Note...BX category does not include FAS.  BF does include FAS.

 

This was for a Bermuda sailing on what was, at the time, one of NCL's new ships.

 

Hi xxxxxxxx,

 

My name is xxxxxxx and I am a Travel Consultant with xxxxxxxxxxx and I am responding to your request for a quote on the Norwegian Escape 7-night cruise departing New York on February 24, 2019.

 

The prices below include the cruise fare, taxes, fees and port expenses based on double occupancy. There are two options for a balcony room. The least expensive one is NCL’s Sail Away Rate. This does not include any of NCL’s Free at Sea amenities. The next option is the Free at Sea promotion, in which you would receive the Beverage package, Dining package, shore excursion credit and 250 internet minutes. NCL has a service charge for the beverage and dining packages. These are included in the pricing for the BF category.

 

Category BX, balcony “guarantee” at the Sail Away rate

$2,056.20 grand total for this room.

 

You will receive $105.00 shipboard credit from our agency for this room.

 

Category BF, balcony “guarantee” with the Free at Sea promotion

$2,765.10 grand total for this room.

 

You will receive $190.00 shipboard credit for this category.

 

NCL requires full payment in order to book this cruise. Please let me know if you need any additional information or if you have any questions. My contact information and schedule are listed below.

 

Thanks for contacting us once again and I look forward to hearing from you. Have a great day.

 

xxxxxx

Cruise & Travel Consultant

xxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxx

 

This week’s schedule-

Monday 2-6

Tuesday 9-5

Wednesday Off

Thursday  12-8

Friday  9-5

Eastern U.S. time

 

[JIMESOPUS]

Want to compare the cost of a cruise from the past to today, I have been using this interesting ( sad ) online calculator.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

 

When we started cruising our daily cost was around $125 PPD, all the taxes and of course, the DSC. FAS wasn't even offered then. Today's number is around $168 but add in the increase of the DSC over the past 10 years ( $12 to $20 ) and the introduction of the surcharge to FAS we are lucky to keep that cost at $200 PPD today. On the flip side, not defending NCL how much does it cost to have one passenger on a sailing? 2023 was a good year for NCL with over 400% gross profit, guess they made some inroads in recovering from COVID-19, at what point do they start thinking of us as customers and not cash cows?

[QuestionEverything]

10 minutes ago, JIMESOPUS said:

Want to compare the cost of a cruise from the past to today, I have been using this interesting ( sad ) online calculator.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

 

When we started cruising our daily cost was around $125 PPD, all the taxes and of course, the DSC. FAS wasn't even offered then. Today's number is around $168 but add in the increase of the DSC over the past 10 years ( $12 to $20 ) and the introduction of the surcharge to FAS we are lucky to keep that cost at $200 PPD today. On the flip side, not defending NCL how much does it cost to have one passenger on a sailing? 2023 was a good year for NCL with over 400% gross profit, guess they made some inroads in recovering from COVID-19, at what point do they start thinking of us as customers and not cash cows?

You are considered a cash cow because consumers continue to book - whether a cruise line, air line etc.

Nobody abuses you without you giving them your permission - an old saying that is 100% correct in the past, today and in the future.

I have cancelled cruising for the foreseeable future despite cruising since 1989. The value is not there. Moved my $ to customized land travel etc so I can enjoy something new and be able to compare the pros/cons of all travel configurations.

I monitor cc to observe the consumer trends etc as I am retired from marketing.

There was a framed statement on our boardroom wall that stated:

"We love obedient consumers", enough said.

[Ozzieru1e]

2 hours ago, Miss Ellsworth said:

I'm wondering if there's a shortcut to figuring out how many cabins of a certain type are open. I don't know of any way except to do dummy bookings for each cabin type and then check for open cabins for each type and on each deck one by one. Do you have an easier way?  Thx

I wish I knew of a shortcut too.  I did dummy bookings just as you described…was curious because I was participating in the Upgrade Advantage Program.  Decided I was better off upgrading on my own rather than waiting to see if I won an upgrade.  It did cost a few dollars more than the program minimum upgrade amount but I have the peace of mind to have now my desire cabin. Choices…we all have control over our choices.

[graphicguy]

I have mentioned, I shop a lot.

 

I keep coming back to this one (Sept 7 nites on the Joy Canada cruise).  Balcony with FAS, all taxes, etc.

 

It's even cheaper than 5 years ago.

 

PRICE SUMMARY

STATEROOM

 

Balcony 

$3,676 

50% Off All Cruises

$1,838

FREE AT SEA

Open Bar

Selected

Specialty Dining

Selected

Shore Excursions

Included

WiFi

Included

+MORE OFFERS

50% Off All Cruises

Included

2-For-1 Deposits

Included

Gov. Taxes, Fees and Port Expenses 

$245.40 

Open Bar Gratuities 

$152.60 

Specialty Dining Gratuities 

$19.80 

Total Due Incl. Taxes

$2,255.80 

 

Edited March 7 by graphicguy

[graphicguy]

44 minutes ago, JIMESOPUS said:

Want to compare the cost of a cruise from the past to today, I have been using this interesting ( sad ) online calculator.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

 

When we started cruising our daily cost was around $125 PPD, all the taxes and of course, the DSC. FAS wasn't even offered then. Today's number is around $168 but add in the increase of the DSC over the past 10 years ( $12 to $20 ) and the introduction of the surcharge to FAS we are lucky to keep that cost at $200 PPD today. On the flip side, not defending NCL how much does it cost to have one passenger on a sailing? 2023 was a good year for NCL with over 400% gross profit, guess they made some inroads in recovering from COVID-19, at what point do they start thinking of us as customers and not cash cows?

But, I recall racking up hundreds of dollars in drinks without FAS.  And, tips were handed out like Halloween Candy, to every one.

 

not defending any cruise line.  It's just this constant barrage of "cruises have gone sky high" just doesn't seem to hold water with what I'm seeing.

 

Sure, you can find a new ship that's nearly sold out where the fares may be high.  But, those willing to shop a little (say like they do when it comes to comparing prices of grocery stores), you can find good fares.

[DCGuy64]

1 hour ago, CWMixer said:

I agree with your points on pricing trends, but obviously I can only see pricing for the 2/25 cruise as of today for comparison: I'll keep watching it.

(In the dry dock  they added ~40 (revenue generating) balcony staterooms in what was part of the observation lounge.  The point could possibly be made that those additional rooms should result in an overall fare reduction).

The 2/23 cruise was booked ~6 months prior to final payment.  I tracked pricing and re-booked a couple of times prior to final payment.  Price fluctuation overall was ~15% range, generally lowering as final payment date approached as we've found to be typical.

As of this morning, it looks like ~70% of the rooms in this category are still available, so it's pretty certain there will be some price adjustments over the coming months. But with current pricing nearly 70% higher than the same sailing 24 mos earlier, I just don't expect NCL to lower it to a 'reasonable' (to us, anyway) increase level, say in the ~20-25% range.  

Someone who's looking at this 2/25 cruise, with no reference point of prior pricing, may however consider it a good deal.

I guess only time will tell. You mentioned that you booked the 2/23 cruise about 6 months prior to final payment. Might be worth looking at prices for the 2/25 around the same time frame to see if they've changed. Perhaps they'll decline. But as you also rightly mention, someone who's looking at that cruise now may have no idea what a similar cruise used to cost. One thing that seems true for us is that no matter when or where the cruise is, there seem to be plenty of paying customers. I guess as long as there's demand, the cruise lines can charge pretty much whatever they want. The saying I learned long ago in Economics in terms of pricing was "whatever the market will bear."

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, cruiseny4life said:

I get what you mean by internet resumes. Even though you and I disagree on some topics (we do agree too), I would still believe whatever internet resume you provide. There are other posters that I trust as well. And, obviously a few...well, I wouldn't trust. Call me naive, but I'm here believing in the best in people.

I'm not comfortable with sharing my personal information on this site.  I would share it in person.  too bad we don't have PM.

[cruiseny4life]

43 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I'm not comfortable with sharing my personal information on this site.  I would share it in person.  too bad we don't have PM.

Oh, that's totally ok! I'm just saying I'd trust you. I've developed that after reading and corresponding with you. I didn't mean that you must! Everything should be shared as one feels comfortable - as you probably have seen, I'm more comfortable than others (maybe too much so) in sharing. 

[RocketMan275]

9 hours ago, Ozzieru1e said:

Approximately a month ago NCL Joy Haven suites were at a standstill for May 2024 cruise until a few recent price drops.  As a result, of the 112 Haven suites available on the Joy only 22 remain open now for booking.  I learned not to book cruises too early because the high prices will reduce over time to encourage cruisers to book.  The disadvantage is the better cabin selection/location will be limited.  Those who don’t want to settle for leftover cabins will pay a higher price but the choice is an individual decision. Rest assured NCL will sail with a full ship.  Prices are going to go up everywhere because nothing stays the same.  My last cruise was on NCL Escape in 2019 so I will not let anything spoil my upcoming NCL Joy cruise in May 2024.  My past NCL cruises were good and I expect this one will be also😎 

Go ahead and book early.  You can always get a price drop if prices fall.  

There are two problems with booking late.

The first you mentioned which is lower cabin availability.

The second is, prices may rise instead of dropping.  My Dec 2025 cruise in the Haven is up over 33%.

[JT222]

Original poster update.

 

Well hello to all. As the original poster on this subject I think it is fare to say that this has been a very passionate debate for many. It shows how much a lot of loyal Norwegians are feeling let down.

 

I was never interested in the why’s, wherefore and documentary’s about debts, covid, etc etc. Having spoken to many other cruisers it is evident that MANY NCL CRUISERS ARE FEELING THE EFFECTS OF THE CUTBACKS and are moving on. Whilst bookings are great now I can assure NCL they will drop in future as they can not sustain this level of disappointment. 
 

I know in Europe there is a lot of disappointment from people whom have always enjoyed the NCL product but are leaving the ships disappointed. Maybe a reason for repositioning ships away from Med waters and Europe etc, and taking them back to the Caribbean etc. It is not about my personal opinion anymore, there is a fundamental change on NCL that is making them less desirable than they were. Maybe the Haven will supply the profits for them like First class on an aircraft but for sure it will be a very segregated ship.

 

They seem on a par with MSC now so despite all my invitations and emails to management to address concerns there seems to be a blackout taking place. Maybe there debts are much worse than they report, which is fraud in itself for investors. 
 

Please don’t bore us all with economic justifications blah blah. THIS IS ABOUT HOW NCL ARE NOT AS GOOD AS THEY WERE BUT CHARGE MORE. 
 

Regards

[laudergayle]

5 minutes ago, JT222 said:

Original poster update.

 

Well hello to all. As the original poster on this subject I think it is fare to say that this has been a very passionate debate for many. It shows how much a lot of loyal Norwegians are feeling let down.

 

I was never interested in the why’s, wherefore and documentary’s about debts, covid, etc etc. Having spoken to many other cruisers it is evident that MANY NCL CRUISERS ARE FEELING THE EFFECTS OF THE CUTBACKS and are moving on. Whilst bookings are great now I can assure NCL they will drop in future as they can not sustain this level of disappointment. 
 

I know in Europe there is a lot of disappointment from people whom have always enjoyed the NCL product but are leaving the ships disappointed. Maybe a reason for repositioning ships away from Med waters and Europe etc, and taking them back to the Caribbean etc. It is not about my personal opinion anymore, there is a fundamental change on NCL that is making them less desirable than they were. Maybe the Haven will supply the profits for them like First class on an aircraft but for sure it will be a very segregated ship.

 

They seem on a par with MSC now so despite all my invitations and emails to management to address concerns there seems to be a blackout taking place. Maybe there debts are much worse than they report, which is fraud in itself for investors. 
 

Please don’t bore us all with economic justifications blah blah. THIS IS ABOUT HOW NCL ARE NOT AS GOOD AS THEY WERE BUT CHARGE MORE. 
 

Regards

YES., OUI, JA, JE, SIM…

[JamieLogical]

Clearly NCL is not offering to the same product now that they were when I first sailes with them in 2018. For some, the changes that have been made have been acceptable and I they will keep sailing with NCL for the foreseeable future. For others, the changes have forced us to look elsewhere. Everyone has to make their own choices based on their own priorities, but many of us have made our choice and more people will make the choice to move away from NCL if the value continues to decline. The real question is if NCL can continue to fill their ships long term. As a shareholder, I hope that they can. As a former NCL loyalist, I will be slightly disappointed if they can, because that means they will not be incentivized to improve their product.

[sprint180]

Not a "loyalist" I guess, but prefer NCL.  I have not noticed NCL going down hill in any area really but I'm sure they are trying to cut costs like all lines.  Entertainment on NCL has always been amazing but was sad to see they are cutting.  As far as food.  It is the same to me as it has always been.  Times are tough all over I guess.