Carnival Cruise Line to Absorb P&O Australia in 2025

[jimbo5544]

13 minutes ago, jsglow said:

Correct and an interesting observation. Even BEFORE Covid there were chinks in the P&O Aus armour. And someone mentioned New Zealand restrictions. The reality is that despite the fact that it was a 90+ year old line, it simply didn't offer the growth opportunities and economies of scale that Carnival does. Somewhere along the line Corp realized that a 2-3 ship cruise line on a going forward basis made zero sense. So for essentially no money except the cost of paint, they get to eliminate an entire back room and dismantle a complete advertising budget. I genuinely believe Costa is next, especially if 'Carnival Italian style' is successful. We loved Venezia; a wonderful adaptation of the standard Carnival product. 

Government lock down mandates can have a ton of cause and effects.  These two countries were fairly harsh in the their actions, maybe that has ripple effects. They do what they think they need to then (covid times) and now, and Carnival does the same.  Reality 101.

[tidecat]

20 minutes ago, jsglow said:

And someone mentioned New Zealand restrictions.

 

Pacific Adventure has had to cancel some calls to New Zealand due to the country's strict antifouling requirements:

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/cruise-ship-denied-entry-to-new-zealand-passengers-face-itinerary-change/116551

 

 

[jimbo5544]

30 minutes ago, tidecat said:

 

Pacific Adventure has had to cancel some calls to New Zealand due to the country's strict antifouling requirements:

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/cruise-ship-denied-entry-to-new-zealand-passengers-face-itinerary-change/116551

 

 

All goes into the profitability of the line and the future.

[arxcards]

4 hours ago, tidecat said:

 

Pacific Adventure has had to cancel some calls to New Zealand due to the country's strict antifouling requirements:

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/cruise-ship-denied-entry-to-new-zealand-passengers-face-itinerary-change/116551

 

 

As did several other ships with "dirty" hulls.

The same could still happen next year if Carnival Adventure fails her routine hull inspection.

[arxcards]

5 hours ago, jsglow said:

Correct and an interesting observation. Even BEFORE Covid there were chinks in the P&O Aus armour. And someone mentioned New Zealand restrictions. The reality is that despite the fact that it was a 90+ year old line, it simply didn't offer the growth opportunities and economies of scale that Carnival does. Somewhere along the line Corp realized that a 2-3 ship cruise line on a going forward basis made zero sense. So for essentially no money except the cost of paint, they get to eliminate an entire back room and dismantle a complete advertising budget. I genuinely believe Costa is next, especially if 'Carnival Italian style' is successful. We loved Venezia; a wonderful adaptation of the standard Carnival product. 

Dig deeper. 

The NZ thing is a recent issue, and affects all cruise lines operating here, including Carnival.

There were no chinks at the time the newbuild was announced. P&O Australia was driving incredible growth and opening up new ports in this part of the Pacific. The newbuild was a logical next step. Carnival corp reneged, and a new P&O ship was changed to Carnival Legend being upgraded to Splendor. 

 

The chinks were bought about by Carnival Corp themselves at the time they decided to place Carnival Spirit in Sydney. While the brand is P&O, in reality the demographic has been an Australian version of Carnival. Adding Spirit undermined the market P&O had built for Carnival Corp. It was a smaller market, but per-capita numbers were world leading. Now that Carnival has left the door ajar for Royal and Norwegian to capitalise, they have no choice but to rationalise to try to hang onto their slice of the market.

 

 

[CruiseAdict218]

8 hours ago, tidecat said:

It was actually Carnival Panorama that was supposed to be for P&O Australia. Carnival Splendor was originally ordered as a sister to Costa Concordia.

Funny thing about that, they almost traded Panorama for Splendor but then ended up giving them Golden Princess/Pacific Adventure. Full circle now with Adventure joining the Carnival brand. 

 

5 hours ago, jsglow said:

Correct and an interesting observation. Even BEFORE Covid there were chinks in the P&O Aus armour. And someone mentioned New Zealand restrictions. The reality is that despite the fact that it was a 90+ year old line, it simply didn't offer the growth opportunities and economies of scale that Carnival does. Somewhere along the line Corp realized that a 2-3 ship cruise line on a going forward basis made zero sense. So for essentially no money except the cost of paint, they get to eliminate an entire back room and dismantle a complete advertising budget. I genuinely believe Costa is next, especially if 'Carnival Italian style' is successful. We loved Venezia; a wonderful adaptation of the standard Carnival product. 

I think Carnival Italian Style has proven successful but it works well with the way Venezia/Firenze were designed, would the concept work with their older fleet? Or split it and convert some to Carnival ships and move the newer ones into the subcategory.

 

Anything is possible now and I think we will see more quirky ship shuffling in the future. 

[jimbo5544]

3 hours ago, arxcards said:

Dig deeper. 

The NZ thing is a recent issue, and affects all cruise lines operating here, including Carnival.

There were no chinks at the time the newbuild was announced. P&O Australia was driving incredible growth and opening up new ports in this part of the Pacific. The newbuild was a logical next step. Carnival corp reneged, and a new P&O ship was changed to Carnival Legend being upgraded to Splendor. 

 

The chinks were bought about by Carnival Corp themselves at the time they decided to place Carnival Spirit in Sydney. While the brand is P&O, in reality the demographic has been an Australian version of Carnival. Adding Spirit undermined the market P&O had built for Carnival Corp. It was a smaller market, but per-capita numbers were world leading. Now that Carnival has left the door ajar for Royal and Norwegian to capitalise, they have no choice but to rationalise to try to hang onto their slice of the market.

 

 

The reason is really not the issue.  It matters not, what does matter is where they get the most revenue from and where the demand is the biggest.

[jimbo5544]

7 hours ago, tidecat said:

 

Pacific Adventure has had to cancel some calls to New Zealand due to the country's strict antifouling requirements:

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/cruise-ship-denied-entry-to-new-zealand-passengers-face-itinerary-change/116551

 

 

Stuff like this a big deal.

[CarnivalShips480]

With the exception of Toscana and Smeralda, the remaining Costa ships were designed by Joe Farcus. They would probably have to be normal Carnival ships (or Luminosa type) rather than Italian style.

[jimbo5544]

On 6/8/2024 at 2:56 PM, tidecat said:

 

Pacific Adventure has had to cancel some calls to New Zealand due to the country's strict antifouling requirements:

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/cruise-ship-denied-entry-to-new-zealand-passengers-face-itinerary-change/116551

 

 

Kind of Norway-esque?

[jsglow]

16 hours ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

With the exception of Toscana and Smeralda, the remaining Costa ships were designed by Joe Farcus. They would probably have to be normal Carnival ships (or Luminosa type) rather than Italian style.

And so the conversion will be even easier and the flexibility even greater. A 4 ship 'Italian style' fleet would be perfect worldwide representing a special and unique 10-15% of the overall eventual fleet.

 

This P&O absorption is about efficiency and back room savings plus increasing footprint for the core cruising market aboard the flagship brand. Carnival Corp is going to watch the results closely. Of course the locals in Australia will be disappointed for awhile. That's just natural when you lose your local retailer. But the corporation determined that it would be more profitable in the long run making the switch. And if it is, Europe's mass market brand might be the next logical choice.  

[Beezo]

2 hours ago, jsglow said:

And so the conversion will be even easier and the flexibility even greater. A 4 ship 'Italian style' fleet would be perfect worldwide representing a special and unique 10-15% of the overall eventual fleet.

 

This P&O absorption is about efficiency and back room savings plus increasing footprint for the core cruising market aboard the flagship brand. Carnival Corp is going to watch the results closely. Of course the locals in Australia will be disappointed for awhile. That's just natural when you lose your local retailer. But the corporation determined that it would be more profitable in the long run making the switch. And if it is, Europe's mass market brand might be the next logical choice.  

Completely agree - I figured we’d see additional changes at Costa first. They run a lot of vessels spread across multiple classes, which is very inefficient.
 

Costa - 9 ships across 5 classes

Aida - 11 ships across 3 classes

HAL - 11 ships across 4 classes

Princess - 16 ships across 4 classes

 

P&O UK - 7 ships across 5 classes

Seabourn - 6 ships across 3 classes

Cunard - 4 ships across 3 classes

Carnival - 27 ships across 7/8 classss

 

[jimbo5544]

2 minutes ago, Beezo said:

Completely agree - I figured we’d see additional changes at Costa first. They run a lot of vessels spread across multiple classes, which is very inefficient.
 

Costa - 9 ships across 5 classes

Aida - 11 ships across 3 classes

HAL - 11 ships across 4 classes

Princess - 16 ships across 4 classes

 

P&O UK - 7 ships across 5 classes

Seabourn - 6 ships across 3 classes

Cunard - 4 ships across 3 classes

Carnival - 27 ships across 7/8 classss

 

Interesting view.