Follow-up to horrible cruise with HAL

[Cruiser Sean]

A couple of weeks ago I posted a review of my families absolutely awful 7-day HAL cruise from Montreal to Boston. 

I'm not going to rehash our experience, feel free to read the volatile thread here: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/3016610-holland-america-volendam-review-worst-cruise-ever/

 

I'm here with an update. 3 weeks ago I filed an official complaint with HAL. My complaint requested a return call from a customer service manager. I also submitted reviews across multiple websites, many that sent the review directly to HAL (these were done about 2 weeks ago). I also contacted Halcruises on X and they submitted a request for a manager to call me. I've followed-up with HAL customer service and had my complaint escalated. 

 

Today, again 3 weeks after submitting my complaint, I still have not been contacted by a single person from HAL to discuss my families experience. Am I surprised? No. Not based on the service we received. But to me, it is pretty telling that this cruise line can't even make a simple phone call to a customer that spent a great deal of money on your cruise line. Even if it was to just listen to the complaint. 

 

I hope that this thread remains civil, but I'm curious to your thoughts on the lack of response from HAL. Has anyone else filed an official complaint with HAL and actually received a response to their complaint? 

 

[bearleftsoiwenthome]

Disappointing.

[VMax1700]

3 minutes ago, Cruiser Sean said:

Even if it was to just listen to the complaint.

I would believe that they have read the complaint numerous times.  I doubt that speaking with you on the phone will make any difference to their or your perception of the event.

Whether they call you or not will make no difference to me booking another cruise with HAL.  

I suggest you move on.

[Emme1233]

I read your previous post, and to refresh my memory just went over it again. Sorry, but you need to move on. Many of the issues that “ruined” your cruise you were making a mountain out of a molehill. 
 

 

[1025cruise]

You might hear from someone who might offer you a cruise credit for future use. Or you might not.

I would suggest you move on.

[lcand1923]

Did you receive any kind of email response?

Most companies stopped contacting customers via telephone many, many years ago.  The usual way of handling dissatisfied customers today is via email.

 

[Haljo1935]

Your experience is disappointing - in both regards: that you didn't enjoy the cruise and that you didn't hear from HAL.

 

With that said, I wouldn't expect you to hear from someone at HAL - what would it change? You've said you will not cruise with them again and anything about how/why your cruise went wrong they have already read from your communication to them and your threads.

 

I have (and continue to) cruised with HAL many times and have had 2 really bad experiences. One I did not communicate to them beyond the post-cruise survey - did not hear from them. The other I posted in a thread, spoke w/senior crew while onboard and sent an email direct to them post-cruise. I have not heard from them (as with your situation, everything that could be learned about the situation they have received); they don't me (or any customer) follow-up on how they deal with issues, so it does not surprise me that you've not gotten a response. Disappointing - yes. Suprising - no.

 

You moved on from them as a customer, so perhaps you should do the same in total. IMO.

 

[Hogladyrider]

Very simply...."Let It Go"!

[Cruiser Sean]

6 minutes ago, Haljo1935 said:

Your experience is disappointing - in both regards: that you didn't enjoy the cruise and that you didn't hear from HAL.

 

With that said, I wouldn't expect you to hear from someone at HAL - what would it change? You've said you will not cruise with them again and anything about how/why your cruise went wrong they have already read from your communication to them and your threads.

 

I have (and continue to) cruised with HAL many times and have had 2 really bad experiences. One I did not communicate to them beyond the post-cruise survey - did not hear from them. The other I posted in a thread, spoke w/senior crew while onboard and sent an email direct to them post-cruise. I have not heard from them (as with your situation, everything that could be learned about the situation they have received); they don't me (or any customer) follow-up on how they deal with issues, so it does not surprise me that you've not gotten a response. Disappointing - yes. Suprising - no.

 

You moved on from them as a customer, so perhaps you should do the same in total. IMO.

 

Very fair and thank you for your comment. 

[Cruiser Sean]

16 minutes ago, lcand1923 said:

Did you receive any kind of email response?

Most companies stopped contacting customers via telephone many, many years ago.  The usual way of handling dissatisfied customers today is via email.

 

Nothing. They definitely had my phone and email, as I verified that on my follow-up. Based on conversations I've had with friends who had issues with HAL and others on this message board, it does seem that HAL very often just ignores these complaints. While some here seem to think that is fine, I have higher expectations for a professional business that provides a service costing thousands of dollars.

[Emme1233]

Coming here and rehashing your irritations serves no purpose. Maybe there was a reason no one responded. You have written all over the internet and what is going to change anything at this point?  We have cruised many times. Has every cruise been perfect? Hardly. pick a cruise line, not one is without fault. Once when an expensive suitcase was damaged a cruise line did give us $300 and some duct tape and we were in a Royal suite. 
 

 

[Eric from San Diego]

It sometimes amazes me how HAL groupies are so defensive about HAL always making excuses for them.   It's as if everybody is afraid of offending them.   

 

Over the years I have made complaints for various reasons to airlines.  They ALWAYS respond.   Always.  It may be nothing more than an automated email offering an apology and a $100 credit for a future flight, but they always respond.   I have also made complaints to hotels for overcharges after I get home and they always respond and solve the problem.  

 

I take cruises for the itineraries and the ports and nothing else.  Cruise ships provide transport and not much else.   They mostly suck otherwise.   If you want nice rooms, entertainment, good food, casinos, pools, spas and shopping, go to Las Vegas.   It is so much much much much better than anything you will ever find on a ship.  And often much cheaper.   

[Cruiser Sean]

1 minute ago, Eric from San Diego said:

It sometimes amazes me how HAL groupies are so defensive about HAL always making excuses for them.   It's as if everybody is afraid of offending them.   

 

Over the years I have made complaints for various reasons to airlines.  They ALWAYS respond.   Always.  It may be nothing more than an automated email offering an apology and a $100 credit for a future flight, but they always respond.   I have also made complaints to hotels for overcharges after I get home and they always respond and solve the problem.  

 

I take cruises for the itineraries and the ports and nothing else.  Cruise ships provide transport and not much else.   They mostly suck otherwise.   If you want nice rooms, entertainment, good food, casinos, pools, spas and shopping, go to Las Vegas.   It is so much much much much better than anything you will ever find on a ship.  And often much cheaper.   

Thank You. I've never heard so many people defend a Company who clearly has a pattern of not addressing customer issues/complaints. I'm with you. I've never had a Company not respond...this is definitely a first for me.

[luvteaching]

I’ve sent HAL a written letter after each cruise. They are usually complimentary but I have brought up issues. I’ve been polite and followed the good, not so good, good format. It has taken up to 8 weeks for a response and the last few years they have been via email. Be patient and spwatch your inbox.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

1 hour ago, Emme1233 said:

I read your previous post, and to refresh my memory just went over it again. Sorry, but you need to move on. Many of the issues that “ruined” your cruise you were making a mountain out of a molehill. 
 

 

I agree with you Move on Do something different. Enjoy life time is important.

[Destiny0315]

Holland America Line is now into its 152nd year! That's 15 decades in 3 centuries in which many millions of people have sailed on their ships. You can love them, hate them, or be neutral about them and it really doesn't matter!

[jlawrence01]

One of the things that I always tell my friends before they go on their first cruise is to be very patient if something does not go right while you are on the cruise.  In the mater of 7-10 days, something will go wrong and the key point is NOT to allow it to ruin your cruise.

 

Last year, I went on the Celebrity Millennium and had an almost perfect cruise.  A week later, I boarded the Norwegian Epic and had a terrible cruise.  From embarkation to the last day, everything went wrong.  It is easy to let a couple things ruin the entire week.

 

The OP said repeatedly that "this post will be my last" post.  The old thread was closed as it ran its course.  And here we go again.

[shadow 123]

I have been sailing with Holland America since 2017. There have been issues but they were always resolved. I can't ever remember being treated rudely or unkindly by any representative whether it was on the ship or on the phone. I am so-so sorry you had to experience that. And yes,, thank you very much for your service to this country.

 

There certainly have been a lot of concerns and issues in the last year or so since the pandemic. I agree with that and it can be very frustrating. But it usually gets resolved.

 

Don't let this experience change you.

[cbr663]

We had a horrible cruise experience with HAL quite some time ago now.  Upon returning home I did contact the Office of the President to outline our poor experience.  Within weeks I heard back from the Office with an acknowledgement that our experience was not the service standard that they worked to provide and offered me a complimentary suite upgrade and $300 OBC on a future cruise.  This was over 10+ years ago though.

 

My personal thought is that HAL is receiving a lot of these letter these days.  In your original post you acknowledged that you were told while on the ship that there were a lot of complaints during the cruise.  Sometimes there are indeed poor management and poor crew on a sip.  Because of this it may take some time for you to receive a response from HAL.

[ExArkie]

Three weeks seems like a pretty short time for the message to find its way to the right person, have that person investigate and determine whether there is an issue, determine what (if anything) can be done, formulate a response that will pass the attorney’s review, and get back to the person sending the message…especially considering the staffing cutbacks and workloads of those remaining employed. 

[Catlover54]

1 hour ago, Cruiser Sean said:

Thank You. I've never heard so many people defend a Company who clearly has a pattern of not addressing customer issues/complaints. I'm with you. I've never had a Company not respond...this is definitely a first for me.

 

I gave you my first detailed response in post #74 on the now  locked thread.  Again, I am so sorry you had such an unfortunate series of errors on your short cruise.

 

To reply to your questions, and more (before the thread gets locked again) :

 

1. Defensiveness:

 

It isn't just some HAL fans who vigorously defend HAL when others report problems they have experienced.   There are frequent cruisers on almost *all* cruise lines who will get very defensive about 'their' line   (at least on Cruise Critic) , and that includes luxury lines.  The default position of such Maginot Line type defenders is typically to accuse the poster of having done something wrong, or to directly or indirectly question their veracity. 

Some (almost certainly a minority) of the defenders have financial connections (direct or indirect) with the lines that makes them hesitant to criticize (e.g., travel agents or retired travel agents who book customers for the line, or used to, and/or who get travel agent cruising discounts, or who are people involved in selling their products to cruise lines, people who know the key players in the industry, and/or have family who meet such criteria etc.).  Others have their own inside lines to the cruise company that give them some privilege, or prestige (e.g., the personal email and phone # of the head chef or other inside information) and they don't want to say anything negative.  Some hope they might get an upgrade offer if they praise the line enough on social media.  

Others (most) have nothing to gain financially or personally, but they don't want to believe (despite believable evidence) that *their* favorite line could do any wrong (or they are embarassed by what their favorite line has done so don't want to admit it happened).  There's a similarity to team sport rivalries, or even country rivalries, or criticisms of family -- some get defensive. 

Others also suspect (based on experience) that some customers make a stink because they are seeking unreasonable compensation  and quickly assume that is what must be happening, and/or that the displeased customer is mentally off, and/or they always have a Pollyana or glass half-full approach to life in general (BTW not necessarily a bad thing, depending on perspective). 

 

And *it isn't just HAL* that sometimes doesn't adequately address customer issues and complaints (be it on board or after the cruise when customers write to them).  Other lines, *even luxury lines*, also have problems (I say this from experience, and experience of others), especially since Covid.

 

2.  Non-responsiveness, and going forward (apart from what I previously posted):

 

I will repeat again as I did before, I am not surprised you haven't heard anything post-cruise.   You might still get some lame response weeks from now, maybe even with a FCC offer.  But if you swear up and down you will never cruise with HAL again, why should they bother?  They may want to make efforts to win back cutomers to give them a second chance, if you'd consider cruising with them, otherwise it is mostly a waste of their time.

Perhaps you should also make a specific suggestion/offer of what you would consider reasonable compensation (you declined the $250 Pinnacle dinner, so what would make you happy?  Perhaps $500 cash or FCC or OBC, and a sincere apology would be reasonable, given so many things that you documented went wrong (especially the accusation by Guest Relations that you were not telling the truth about your excursion cancellation )?  Tell them what you want to get back in their good graces and to give them a second chance.

If you're really planning on Alaska, HAL and Princess -- both unfortunately under Carnival Cruise Lines -- are arguably the best lines for going there (e.g., Glacier Bay opportunities, docking locations, etc.), so *look forwards* , and learn from prior mixups, to maximize chances of having a good time.

 Readers at CC on all forums are mostly  here to help -- they have helped me and others tremendously over the years, and I try and return the favors. They donate many hours of their time and advice, and much of what is said is quite valuable (some is in error, so be careful, and sometimes people just get testy -- it is like that on all forums, and in real life, so be it). 

 

And as I said before, if you cruise again, (Alaska?)  *use a good travel agent* , preferably one associated with a large conglomerate that has some clout, and who knows the area you want to go to, for your booking. We cannot recommend one here, but ask your frequent cruiser friends for a recommendation, or look on You-Tube for one that specializes in the area or line you are interested in. Then he/she can be the one looking out for you in advance, on the phone, writing letters, and following up about things going wrong (mine has even helped me *when I was on board* with a major problem, on another line,  by calling key personnel) and she will have a good sense of what would be reasonable compensation (if any) to ask for and expect.  The cruise lines have an interest in keeping those booking conglomerates happy, so they steer customers to them and not so much to competitors, all else being equal. 

 

Another thing I didn't mention before, is to step back and consider consulting with your wife/daughters about what their preferences are going forward (if you have not already done this ).   Do they want you to press forward with more complaints to HAL or work on booking another cruise or work on a non-cruise future vacation, or none of the above?  Maybe they will have other suggestions or ideas, even if you're the guy who handled everything?  Stepping back and asking family (in my case, my husband), has often given me some fresh ideas, and perspective on some consideration that hadn't previously occurred to me or that I hadn't considered (though I'm the one who researches and books our travel). 

 

Good luck, and if you cruise again, then happy sailing (as you know Alaska is beautiful -- and that is true even if it rains). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cruiser Sean]

19 minutes ago, Catlover54 said:

 

I gave you my first detailed response in post #74 on the now  locked thread.  Again, I am so sorry you had such an unfortunate series of errors on your short cruise.

 

To reply to your questions, and more (before the thread gets locked again) :

 

1. Defensiveness:

 

It isn't just some HAL fans who vigorously defend HAL when others report problems they have experienced.   There are frequent cruisers on almost *all* cruise lines who will get very defensive about 'their' line   (at least on Cruise Critic) , and that includes luxury lines.  The default position of such Maginot Line type defenders is typically to accuse the poster of having done something wrong, or to directly or indirectly question their veracity. 

Some (almost certainly a minority) of the defenders have financial connections (direct or indirect) with the lines that makes them hesitant to criticize (e.g., travel agents or retired travel agents who book customers for the line, or used to, and/or who get travel agent cruising discounts, or who are people involved in selling their products to cruise lines, people who know the key players in the industry, and/or have family who meet such criteria etc.).  Others have their own inside lines to the cruise company that give them some privilege, or prestige (e.g., the personal email and phone # of the head chef or other inside information) and they don't want to say anything negative.  Some hope they might get an upgrade offer if they praise the line enough on social media.  

Others (most) have nothing to gain financially or personally, but they don't want to believe (despite believable evidence) that *their* favorite line could do any wrong (or they are embarassed by what their favorite line has done so don't want to admit it happened).  There's a similarity to team sport rivalries, or even country rivalries, or criticisms of family -- some get defensive. 

Others also suspect (based on experience) that some customers make a stink because they are seeking unreasonable compensation  and quickly assume that is what must be happening, and/or that the displeased customer is mentally off, and/or they always have a Pollyana or glass half-full approach to life in general (BTW not necessarily a bad thing, depending on perspective). 

 

And *it isn't just HAL* that sometimes doesn't adequately address customer issues and complaints (be it on board or after the cruise when customers write to them).  Other lines, *even luxury lines*, also have problems (I say this from experience, and experience of others), especially since Covid.

 

2.  Non-responsiveness, and going forward (apart from what I previously posted):

 

I will repeat again as I did before, I am not surprised you haven't heard anything post-cruise.   You might still get some lame response weeks from now, maybe even with a FCC offer.  But if you swear up and down you will never cruise with HAL again, why should they bother?  They may want to make efforts to win back cutomers to give them a second chance, if you'd consider cruising with them, otherwise it is mostly a waste of their time.

Perhaps you should also make a specific suggestion/offer of what you would consider reasonable compensation (you declined the $250 Pinnacle dinner, so what would make you happy?  Perhaps $500 cash or FCC or OBC, and a sincere apology would be reasonable, given so many things that you documented went wrong (especially the accusation by Guest Relations that you were not telling the truth about your excursion cancellation )?  Tell them what you want to get back in their good graces and to give them a second chance.

If you're really planning on Alaska, HAL and Princess -- both unfortunately under Carnival Cruise Lines -- are arguably the best lines for going there (e.g., Glacier Bay opportunities, docking locations, etc.), so *look forwards* , and learn from prior mixups, to maximize chances of having a good time.

 Readers at CC on all forums are mostly  here to help -- they have helped me and others tremendously over the years, and I try and return the favors. They donate many hours of their time and advice, and much of what is said is quite valuable (some is in error, so be careful, and sometimes people just get testy -- it is like that on all forums, and in real life, so be it). 

 

And as I said before, if you cruise again, (Alaska?)  *use a good travel agent* , preferably one associated with a large conglomerate that has some clout, and who knows the area you want to go to, for your booking. We cannot recommend one here, but ask your frequent cruiser friends for a recommendation, or look on You-Tube for one that specializes in the area or line you are interested in. Then he/she can be the one looking out for you in advance, on the phone, writing letters, and following up about things going wrong (mine has even helped me *when I was on board* with a major problem, on another line,  by calling key personnel) and she will have a good sense of what would be reasonable compensation (if any) to ask for and expect.  The cruise lines have an interest in keeping those booking conglomerates happy, so they steer customers to them and not so much to competitors, all else being equal. 

 

Another thing I didn't mention before, is to step back and consider consulting with your wife/daughters about what their preferences are going forward (if you have not already done this ).   Do they want you to press forward with more complaints to HAL or work on booking another cruise or work on a non-cruise future vacation, or none of the above?  Maybe they will have other suggestions or ideas, even if you're the guy who handled everything?  Stepping back and asking family (in my case, my husband), has often given me some fresh ideas, and perspective on some consideration that hadn't previously occurred to me or that I hadn't considered (though I'm the one who researches and books our travel). 

 

Good luck, and if you cruise again, then happy sailing (as you know Alaska is beautiful -- and that is true even if it rains). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank You. Your post was extremely helpful. I've never considered a travel agent, especially since it is very easy to book your own travel. However, it does seem as if you might have better recourse with the cruise industry, if you have have an agent and you have issues on your cruise. Again, thank you. I'll consider this as we book our Alaskan cruise...which will obviously have to be with Princess. I don't necessarily mind that all these lines are owned by Carnival, as we have cruised with Carnival several times and never had an issue.

[Kay S]

Have you considered contacting a consumer advocate?  Google should bring up some names.

[sunviking90]

You likely won’t hear anything for a long time, if at all. This is the new reality of customer service in the mass market cruise industry. There isn’t enough manpower to handle the issues that arise now that everyone and their dog (literally sometimes) has decided to cruise post covid. 
I don’t think you ever said what exactly you wanted to happen for you other than to be contacted and “heard”. Were you expecting compensation beyond what you were offered on board? You would be better off to have a specific, realistic expectation of what you want, then as I already said in a post on your other thread, contact the higher ups through the contact info on Elliott.org. This will get you a response, I almost guarantee. I also suggest keeping emotion and the emotions of your family members out of it, but just be factual on how they failed to fulfill their promises to you. I wouldn’t expect apologies, or admitting failures, because that just isn’t how they roll these days. They’ll give you something to get rid of you and hopefully keep you happy.

I have resorted to using the Elliott.org contact info twice with Princess, and once with HAL, when months went by without responses or resolutions. My issues were a little more “concrete” though (bill error resolution, no replies re promised covid per diem not given, etc).

[Billthekid]

I agree customer service is a thing of the past—a bygone era.  Everything is emails and text.  No personal telephonic communications.  If I hear one more time, "I am away from my desk and I will return your call later"  That just does not happen.