opening ceremonies causing second thoughts on our vacation

[marazul]

A longer version of the above news story.

 

Organizers apologize after church groups criticize alleged ‘Last Supper’ parody during opening ceremony

 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/29/sport/last-supper-paris-olympic-opening-ceremony-spt-intl

[d9704011]

1 hour ago, marazul said:

A longer version of the above news story.

 

Organizers apologize after church groups criticize alleged ‘Last Supper’ parody during opening ceremony

 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/29/sport/last-supper-paris-olympic-opening-ceremony-spt-intl

Sort of an apology.

 

We're sorry if anybody took offense to what we presented; not quite the same as being sorry for actually presenting it.

[marazul]

25 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Sort of an apology.

 

We're sorry if anybody took offense to what we presented; not quite the same as being sorry for actually presenting it.

Yup. Then again, that's a bunch of theatrical producers presenting their views of inclusivity. It is quite misguided to assume that it represents the views of the French public in general. Reading some of the French papers, they were just as astonished as everyone else. 

[d9704011]

2 minutes ago, marazul said:

Yup. Then again, that's a bunch of theatrical producers presenting their views of inclusivity. It is quite misguided to assume that it represents the views of the French public in general. Reading some of the French papers, they were just as astonished as everyone else. 

And I wouldn't consider (re) planning my vacation around it; I can always find something offensive in any country if I look for it.

[CruiserBruce]

53 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

And I wouldn't consider (re) planning my vacation around it; I can always find something offensive in any country if I look for it.

Absolutely agree.

[NCteacherlovescruising]

2 hours ago, d9704011 said:

Sort of an apology.

 

We're sorry if anybody took offense to what we presented; not quite the same as being sorry for actually presenting it.

Not at all and they knew exactly what we would think. 
 

1 hour ago, marazul said:

Yup. Then again, that's a bunch of theatrical producers presenting their views of inclusivity. It is quite misguided to assume that it represents the views of the French public in general. Reading some of the French papers, they were just as astonished as everyone else. 

 

I would think they would have had to get approval for their plans. 
 

1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

And I wouldn't consider (re) planning my vacation around it; I can always find something offensive in any country if I look for it.

 

I find plenty of things in my own country I don’t like, as I’m sure we all do. It just gave me a very bad impression of Paris. Maybe I’m overreacting, I don’t know. Once again I tried steering my husband back to Italy but he said no. Not that he didn’t love it there, he just wants to go to another country, so given where we will be we’re looking at France or Portugal. Portugal don’t seem near as interesting to me so I suggested France and we ran with it. We’re really into good red wines and have talked about going to Bordeaux several times and this is our chance. I am finding it appears Paris is the better option for flying home though. 

[marazul]

17 minutes ago, NCteacherlovescruising said:

would think they would have had to get approval for their plans. 

Some things always sound better on paper...

[musicgal]

I really enjoyed Paris and I am very conservative.  We stayed near the Tuilleries and the Louvre and walked the entire city (almost).  That abomination of a "fashion show" was somebody's idea of being cute- not representative of the vibe of a normal Paris day.  Speak a little French and you'll be treated very nicely.

[NCteacherlovescruising]

4 minutes ago, musicgal said:

I really enjoyed Paris and I am very conservative.  We stayed near the Tuilleries and the Louvre and walked the entire city (almost).  That abomination of a "fashion show" was somebody's idea of being cute- not representative of the vibe of a normal Paris day.  Speak a little French and you'll be treated very nicely.

Thank you!  My husband speaks a little French, very little.  He took it in HS.  He's one of those that tends to retain things. It makes me wonder if he's always had a desire to go to France and just never mentioned it until recently.  I hope he will brush up on it between now and then.

[NCteacherlovescruising]

You all convinced me to go to Paris.  We went ahead and booked our hotel accommodations, all refundable rates.  We decided on 4 nights in Bordeaux and 2 in Paris so we'll have to prioritize what we feel are must sees there, but will have plenty of time to do what we want in Bordeaux.   @marazul my husband was not happy about the price of your hotel, but when I showed him how small the rooms were at Hotel Des Marronniers, without upgrading to a more expensive room, he reluctantly agreed.  We also booked our pre-cruise stay in Barcelona.  

[marazul]

24 minutes ago, NCteacherlovescruising said:

@marazul my husband was not happy about the price of your hotel,

But it is so lovely and so Parisian! And next door to Chanel...

You'll love it.

[NCteacherlovescruising]

32 minutes ago, marazul said:

But it is so lovely and so Parisian! And next door to Chanel...

You'll love it.

I’m sure we will. 

[DLWood]

On 7/27/2024 at 4:28 PM, NCteacherlovescruising said:

After watching the opening ceremonies last night, I'm really having a difficult time moving forward with our plans to go to Bordeaux and Paris after our round trip Barcelona cruise.  Would Bordeaux be like Paris?  I don't know if we should just omit Paris or completely start over with our planning and skip France altogether.  

Paris is a very large and diverse city and you can see the parts that you can relate to and not see the portions that are giving you concern. Highly recommend one day at the Louvre, walking along the river and parks, Arc de Triumph, and Sacre Coeur cathedral

[D&N]

I'm really not an arty person. But the artistic director and lots of other folk have been extremely clear that a sequence that didn't even register with me in the opening ceremony was completely misunderstood by certain groups. In some media cases because they wanted to provoke controversy. The sequence related to some artistic work about Greek Gods, which I believe is in a museum in Lyon. Greek Gods. The Olympics. Even my very limited recollection of the classics suggests there might be a connection there.

 

As a result they've spent the last few weeks pouring over their plans for the closing ceremony just in case there might be something in there that they didn't realise might upset some group on one side or another.

 

Remember that France is fiercely protective of their constitutional status as a secular society. The creative arts don't normally consider who they might upset when dreaming up content. One only has to think back to Charlie Hebdo to see the reactions from extremists.

 

Oh, I wouldn't want to put anyone off but the area between Pigalle and Sacre Coeur has always had a reputation for pickpockets. Not suggesting you avoid it, as it's probably our favourite religious building in Paris, just be careful. Probably not as bad as the Rome Metro!

 

 

[Hlitner]

I debated whether to respond to this interesting thread, but finally decided there are lessons to be learned.  Sometimes DW and I will refer to ourselves as "world travelers" which may or may not be an appropriate label for folks who have visited over 140 countries.  We travel on both cruise ships and land (and love both).  If we were to look for a moral or other reason, I suspect we could easily find reasons to not visit a majority of those places.  

 

Having spent significant time in France, DW and I sometimes joke that even the French do not like Parisians (and vice versa).  I suppose that statement could also apply to New Yorkers (my birth town) and some other large cities around the world.  We have spent many months in Paris, and could easily point to various incidents that might politely be called rude.  However, Paris remains one of our favorite places, on earth, and there is much to like and enjoy in that city.  

 

One thing about D&N's comments regarding pickpockets.  Yes, Paris has its share, but so does nearly every other tourist city in Europe and the USA.  Travelers are well advised to develop an anti-pickpocket strategy and follow it wherever they go in the world (Japan might be the one major exception).  I have a good friend who had her wallet lifted out of her purse, while she was at the top level of the Eiffel Tower.  Bottom line is always to be aware of your surroundings (and the people in your area) and never make yourself an easy "mark" for the professional thieves.

 

Hank

[marazul]

18 hours ago, D&N said:

I'm really not an arty person. But the artistic director and lots of other folk have been extremely clear that a sequence that didn't even register with me in the opening ceremony was completely misunderstood by certain groups. In some media cases because they wanted to provoke controversy. The sequence related to some artistic work about Greek Gods, which I believe is in a museum in Lyon. Greek Gods. The Olympics. Even my very limited recollection of the classics suggests there might be a connection there.

 

Remember that France is fiercely protective of their constitutional status as a secular society. The creative arts don't normally consider who they might upset when dreaming up content. One only has to think back to Charlie Hebdo to see the reactions from extremists.

 

 

That sums it up. 

[Vineyard View]

I also have read this thread and hesitated on responding. I feel that if watching the opening Olympics impacted me so much as to keep me awake all night long, and left me with all the highly emotional negative feelings that OP continued to post, that I may want to consider if I might be over-reacting. If I sincerely didn’t feel I was over-reacting, then I might need to re-think being a traveler. Travel, in country or international, is just not for everyone. If we carry our beliefs into other cultures/countries, and expect to find alignment, that is likely an unrealistic expectation. 
We loved Paris. We are also looking forward to visiting Southern France next year. We have been fortunate to travel quite a bit land and sea (not nearly as much as many on these forums), over the years. We traveled to countries that do not necessarily align with our ways of thinking, however, in every travel, and maybe especially those places,  we have learned from the people and experiences things we wouldn’t have otherwise. Things that can stick. We are truly fortunate to have done so. 

I enjoyed watching the Olympics this year. Outstanding, heartwarming efforts by all…..What a joy to have these athletes to cheer on, no matter where from, and have a break in all the rest of the world stuff. Congratulations to everyone of them who made their Olympic teams….and to Paris! 
 

[CruiserBruce]

This reminds me of the every few year ritual....the French do some thing that we don't like, and there is a rush to change that primary food group from French Fries, to American fries....

[Vineyard View]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

This reminds me of the every few year ritual....the French do some thing that we don't like, and there is a rush to change that primary food group from French Fries, to American fries....

Classic 

[onyx007]

Of course you know that it was not the "last supper" but the "feast of Dyonisos" that they created, a greek god of festivites as the ancient olympic games were greek.

 

And if that's the reason you want to skip Paris, then you can skip France altogether as it was not only a city but a whole country which are hosting the games...

[fruitmachine]

On 8/16/2024 at 12:13 PM, onyx007 said:

Of course you know that it was not the "last supper" but the "feast of Dyonisos" that they created, a greek god of festivites as the ancient olympic games were greek.

 

Agree.

 

On 8/16/2024 at 12:13 PM, onyx007 said:

And if that's the reason you want to skip Paris, then you can skip France altogether as it was not only a city but a whole country which are hosting the games...

Disagree - it's always a city that hosts the games, not the country.

[d9704011]

1 hour ago, fruitmachine said:

Disagree - it's always a city that hosts the games, not the country.

Bordeaux, Marseilles, Nantes, Nice, Tahiti, etc...  I never saw the mayor of Paris, but the President of France made appearances.

[marazul]

23 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

never saw the mayor of Paris,

She was at the opening and closing ceremonies. She handed the Olympic flag on to the mayor of LA.

[d9704011]

46 minutes ago, marazul said:

She was at the opening and closing ceremonies. She handed the Olympic flag on to the mayor of LA.

I did see her taking a dip in the Seine.